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New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44496427

Quote:

An attempt to make upskirting a specific criminal offence in England and Wales has been blocked by one Conservative MP.

The government had given its support to introducing the new law earlier.

But Sir Christopher Chope shouted "object" to the bill, leading to cries of "shame" from other MPs.

The campaign for the law against upskirting - where photos are secretly taken under a skirt - was started by victim Gina Martin

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

Sir Christopher Chope obviously needs real help IMO as anybody in their right mind would support the New upskirting law.:td::(

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

He says it's because it's not been properly debated and he is against laws just being put onto the books without proper parliamentary debate. Not entirely unreasonable but this looks really, really bad in terms of PR.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

when you read the whole article it soudns reasonable...

Quote:

Sir Christopher is a leading member of a group of backbench Conservatives who make a practice of ensuring that what they see as well-meaning but flabby legislation is not lazily plopped on to the statue book by a few MPs on a poorly attended Friday sitting.

And after all this is a bill to create a new criminal offence, for which people can go to jail.

so, he's agreed to discuss the matter further, which hopefuly will mean a better law can be brought in, which could have less loopholes and wiggle room for supsects.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

This is where there is daft policies and rules within Parliament, no one person should have the power to kill a bill like that by just shouting 'object'.

The Tories have lost their way, Labour is a disaster party. We are in a political situation of being in absolute Limbo.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35950666)

This is where there is daft policies and rules within Parliament, no one person should have the power to kill a bill like that by just shouting 'object'..

I think this is a specific incidence of private members bills and the time allotted to them meaning you can run out the clock on getting it passed. You couldn't do this to any government introduced legislation I think.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

Another knee-jerk law stopped in its tracks by someone being sensible. It should be properly debated first.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

I don't think the law itself is stupid, it's more the principle itself that motivated him.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35950675)

Another knee-jerk law stopped in its tracks by someone being sensible. It should be properly debated first.

What's there to debate? Gobsmacked it isn't illegal already.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35950675)

Another knee-jerk law stopped in its tracks by someone being sensible. It should be properly debated first.

Thank you! At last someone with a moment to breathe, to think about it. I was going to run a thread on this as the original Sky story ran as if the thing passed.

I see it as a preposterous idea. I'll likely write a longer comment on it, once the bill gets to a debate. (Sounds like a horrible idea though).

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:30 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35950666)

This is where there is daft policies and rules within Parliament, no one person should have the power to kill a bill like that by just shouting 'object'.

Why was there a need to have such a law in the first place? Without being able to prove intent, the bill would have no chance of being effective, at all.

This bill is absurd, on the merits.

Quote:

The Tories have lost their way, Labour is a disaster party. We are in a political situation of being in absolute Limbo.

Very true, on all fronts, and the answer is not to try more parties. The Lib Dems (with their few MPs) proposed this, then complained when someone opposed. It is dangerous to give power to the brain dead.

---------- Post added at 18:36 ---------- Previous post was at 18:33 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35950678)

What's there to debate? Gobsmacked it isn't illegal already.

It is illegal though - same rules apply to the paparazzi as they do to any average Joe.

I think that you can't use a lens to zoom in and there are reasonable grounds of privacy in reasonable areas - expectations etc.

Now, I don't even want to get into the absurd hypothetical scenarios that this could effect and end up involving.

This is Britain's version of the French law banning whistling - the latest round of Darwin awards time hitting parliament.

---------- Post added at 18:43 ---------- Previous post was at 18:36 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35950667)

Yeah, even the lady who decided to fawn faux outrage at the whole process even eventually said that this is nothing but procedural said that Sir Bill is opposed to PMB's:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/...ry-mp-11405840

What was disgusting was her comments at the end which said that it was a "petty thing to do" (to follow procedure - how dare people get the due process expected of a parliamentarian when passing a bill!)

What a piece of work - openly huffing at the idea of her own pet project being thwarted by someone using the framework of the house to analyze something now that "there outta be a law" crowd have picked up steam.

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35950663)

Yeah, the optics are indeed terrible, especially as it was a guy that blocked it - as in the current world of femmewhoring anything that does not placate the whims of genderoically inferior crowd is seen as a chauvinist. Of course none of the women in the party could say anything because they are now clamoring for their latest project - abortion in NI!

The modern day conservative party sickens me.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

What could the problem with a law stopping people taking shots under woman’s skirts?

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

Quote:

Quote from Damien:

What could the problem with a law stopping people taking shots under woman’s skirts?

I think the issue is making it a specific offence with special penalties whereas now it's covered under a general law.

BTW I'm not against making it a special offence.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

I am 5 foot 10 inches tall...and sadly have a propensity to wear ridiculously short skirts. (Forgive me on that - I age with no dignity).

If a random kid (who is shorter than me) takes a picture and it is at the height of my waist I don't want him charged and tried for something that I see no bad intent in. If I am bent over and someone else takes a picture, I kind of have to suck that up.

Personal responsibility goes a long way. If I chose to wear something short / kinky I kind of need to live with that. Taking a picture as a joke, is not worthy of being labelled a pervert.

The lines of ambiguity are kind of all over the place here, too. Does it have to be directly below the skirt? What are the odds of that?

Or for example, would taking this picture now be a crime:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1529086301

Damien, if I choose to dress in a way that leaves me embarrassed why should that then infringe upon everyone else to the extent that we need a new law / make them weary of using a camera around a woman with a loose / short skirt?

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35950692)

I think the issue is making it a specific offence with special penalties whereas now it's covered under a general law.

BTW I'm not against making it a special offence.

Apparently the problem is that it's not quite covered under existing laws: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40955829

Sometimes the police will try for a prosecution but it's not easy.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas (Post 35950693)

The law isn't against taking photos where people are wearing short skirts. It's people putting cameras directly under a woman's skirt to take a photo. The police would not have trouble differentiating between that and someone who happens to be bent over in the background of another shot. In the photo you've given that clearly would not qualify.

Quote:

The lines of ambiguity are kind of all over the place here, too. Does it have to be directly below the skirt? What are the odds of that?

Likely if that's what the person is doing and there are perverts who do precisely that.

Re: New upskirting law blocked by Tory MP

Looking at some of the links in that article Damien, those issues seem the most severe and some of them shouldn't even be crimes. If you are sat at a bus stop and your dress is flowy / loose it should not be a crime to take a picture of you in it, should it? If there is an upskirt...again, do you want to infringe on the right of every person taking a photograph, just in case?

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:34 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35950694)

Okay so we're not a million miles apart here. What about the lady who was on the tube...should it be a crime to take a picture of her if she is flashing her underwear?

Quote:

Likely if that's what the person is doing and there are perverts who do precisely that.

There was a case like this in the US, too - came down to the same thing...you can't claim to have rights to airspace underneath / around you. If someone is under you (glass ceiling etc) and takes a picture and it is up your skirt surely you do not see that as a crime?