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-   -   Welsh 16 year olds get the vote (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33708438)

Taf 27-11-2019 18:34

Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
16 and 17-year-olds, plus 33,000 foreign nationals, will be able to vote in the 2021 Welsh Assembly election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50561883

Sephiroth 30-11-2019 09:42

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
They’d better all learn that funny language then!

But more seriously (and it is good to preserve ancient languages), 16 year olds have no basis of worldly experience on which to make valid judgements. It is a very dangerous thing to give kids the vote. Even 18 is questionable seeing how those idiots seem to be flocking to Corbyn.

At that age, I too voted Labour just because I couldn’t see why toffs should be so rich. It quickly became apparent when I got my first mortgage why we should strive to better ourselves financially and why the Unions needed bringing under control - hence I switched to Conservative where I have remained.


Mr K 30-11-2019 09:53

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36018713)
They’d better all learn that funny language then!

But more seriously (and it is good to preserve ancient languages), 16 year olds have no basis of worldly experience on which to make valid judgements. It is a very dangerous thing to give kids the vote. Even 18 is questionable seeing how those idiots seem to be flocking to Corbyn.

At that age, I too voted Labour just because I couldn’t see why toffs should be so rich. It quickly became apparent when I got my first mortgage why we should strive to better ourselves financially and why the Unions needed bringing under control - hence I switched to Conservative where I have remained.


A new Govt. will take a 16 year old, up to the age of 21. Arguably the most important time of their lives? Why shouldn't they have a say? Give them a bit of credit, they are your future.

denphone 30-11-2019 09:59

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36018716)
A new Govt. will take a 16 year old, up to the age of 21. Arguably the most important time of their lives? Why shouldn't they have a say? Give them a bit of credit, they are your future.

Of course they should be able to vote at 16 as its pretty condescending to say they don't know enough to be able to come to a informed decision before they vote.

OLD BOY 30-11-2019 10:01

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36018716)
A new Govt. will take a 16 year old, up to the age of 21. Arguably the most important time of their lives? Why shouldn't they have a say? Give them a bit of credit, they are your future.

Seph answered your question in his last post. Young people still in full time education have little experience of the world and have an idealistic sense of the world. They also tend to believe what their left-wing teachers tell them.

You are expecting them to vote when they have only very recently woken up to politics and what is happening around the world.

Sephiroth 30-11-2019 10:04

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36018716)
A new Govt. will take a 16 year old, up to the age of 21. Arguably the most important time of their lives? Why shouldn't they have a say? Give them a bit of credit, they are your future.

Give them credit for what? Understanding how things work, how wheels turn, how judgements should be made in the context of history and extant situations? Wisdom comes with age.

Maybe a youth Parliament with one elected representative to the Welsh assembly? But votes at 16 is a ridiculous proposition - I fear that it will take hold in the UK. Next it’ll be they can be MPs, too young to buy alcohol, too young to drive but allowed to legislate there on. Quite ridiculous.

Taf 30-11-2019 11:13

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Labour was the driving force behind this, backed by the Welsh nationalists. Desperate for votes I suspect.

Not so long ago they argued that a jihadi bride should be allowed to return to the UK as she probably did not understand what she was doing at age 16 when she left. But she understands enough to vote?

papa smurf 30-11-2019 11:32

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36018725)
Labour was the driving force behind this, backed by the Welsh nationalists. Desperate for votes I suspect.

Not so long ago they argued that a jihadi bride should be allowed to return to the UK as she probably did not understand what she was doing at age 16 when she left. But she understands enough to vote?

She'll understand enough to vote Labour the terrorists best friend.

jfman 30-11-2019 11:48

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36018719)
Give them credit for what? Understanding how things work, how wheels turn, how judgements should be made in the context of history and extant situations? Wisdom comes with age.



Exactly, look at Stanley Johnson, so old and wise he got on TV and told the British public just what idiots they are!

Quote:

Maybe a youth Parliament with one elected representative to the Welsh assembly? But votes at 16 is a ridiculous proposition - I fear that it will take hold in the UK. Next it’ll be they can be MPs, too young to buy alcohol, too young to drive but allowed to legislate there on. Quite ridiculous.
Old enough to pay tax.

At least you’ve been honest enough that when you were young you were more left wing/less right wing, so merely see it as a function to gerrymander election results by restricting the franchise.

The real fear of course is that 16-17 year olds vote for their economic interests much like pensioners do.

nomadking 30-11-2019 12:11

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36018732)
Exactly, look at Stanley Johnson, so old and wise he got on TV and told the British public just what idiots they are!

Old enough to pay tax.

At least you’ve been honest enough that when you were young you were more left wing/less right wing, so merely see it as a function to gerrymander election results by restricting the franchise.

The real fear of course is that 16-17 year olds vote for their economic interests much like pensioners do.

I remember being potentially liable for tax when I was just 14 years old(Summer holiday job).

jfman 30-11-2019 14:16

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36018734)
I remember being potentially liable for tax when I was just 14 years old(Summer holiday job).

Potentially.

Hom3r 30-11-2019 22:18

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Personally I'd raise the voting age to 21. Along with Drinking, smoking, gambling.

nomadking 30-11-2019 22:29

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36018753)
Potentially.

Wouldn't have reached the tax allowance. I was still "assessed".

Child showbiz stars must pay tax. Don't know how it works nowadays, but back then it was added to a parents tax. My father had to declare it.

jonbxx 02-12-2019 09:14

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Here's the Conservative case for extending the vote to 16 and 17 year olds - https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/...-at-16-and-17/

In a worst case, with the voting age being 18, you could be essentially disenfranchised until you are nearly 23 under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act. In this time, you could have been working for 6 years or studied for A Levels, got a Degree and be 2/3 of the way through a Ph.D. at the other end of things.

I would suggest that the years from 16 to 23 years old are some of the years that will have the largest impact on your life. There are other life events of course but those years are certainly up there and the breadth of opportunity is never wider than at this point. Not being able to have an influence in how the country is run seems unfair to me.

mrmistoffelees 02-12-2019 10:14

Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36018900)
Here's the Conservative case for extending the vote to 16 and 17 year olds - https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/...-at-16-and-17/

In a worst case, with the voting age being 18, you could be essentially disenfranchised until you are nearly 23 under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act. In this time, you could have been working for 6 years or studied for A Levels, got a Degree and be 2/3 of the way through a Ph.D. at the other end of things.

I would suggest that the years from 16 to 23 years old are some of the years that will have the largest impact on your life. There are other life events of course but those years are certainly up there and the breadth of opportunity is never wider than at this point. Not being able to have an influence in how the country is run seems unfair to me.


Indeed, a sixteen year old can choose to defend their country, yet is denied a voice in how that country should be run.


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