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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

Tezcatlipoca 24-06-2008 02:07

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
And post 10,000 in the Phorm Uber-Thread goes to Alexander Hanff :)

roadrunner69 24-06-2008 02:08

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34582841)

Someone watching this thread very very carefully and removing what they can from sight fast..

The direct url still works fine. Looks like we may have been barred :erm:

icsys 24-06-2008 02:08

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34582846)
florence ,edit your post its got your Ip in it.

now your ip icsys

waiting for you to edit it florence than ill delete this post

Noticed your message and deleted the post
(Just as well I deleted it, it was the 10,000th)

Thanks

AlexanderHanff 24-06-2008 02:10

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Well it was a good suggestion and having info about the protest at this stage in such a long thread serves as a good reminder. So thanks to everyone who held off posting to give me a chance to get it in.

Also, now would be a good time to thank everyone here at Cableforum for their support and for hosting what has at times been a very emotional thread. Without these boards this thread would not have become the resource it has and I am very grateful to you all for that (staff and users alike). Lets hope we manage to stop Phorm BEFORE this thread reaches 20 000 posts eh?

Alexander Hanff

icsys 24-06-2008 02:16

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
It's been a pleasure so far, and will no doubt continue to be.

Thanks Alex for your hard work and dedication.

And on that note I'll bid you all good night and get off to bed.

popper 24-06-2008 02:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
shouldn't that be "and used to make an [Unlawful] 'Derivative work' for their Open Internet Exchange (OIX) service"

its always good to highlight the "Derivative work" Aspect, and id always put the "Unlawful" part in as they are not getting the websites owners permission or paying a licence fee there eather....

just incase any website owners reading it, didnt consider that commercial piracy aspect of these devices before.

OldBear 24-06-2008 02:35

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34582861)
Also, now would be a good time to thank everyone here at Cableforum for their support and for hosting what has at times been a very emotional thread. Without these boards this thread would not have become the resource it has and I am very grateful to you all for that (staff and users alike). Lets hope we manage to stop Phorm BEFORE this thread reaches 20 000 posts eh?

Well said, sir. :)

Huge thanks to all the staff here at Cable Forum, especially the chaps moderating this thread; you've done a great job. :nworthy:

OB

mark777 24-06-2008 02:44

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Anyone in the last 20 or so posts care to add (edit this link into) their their post :-

Quote:

What does the man who invented the web have to say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7299875.stm


AlexanderHanff 24-06-2008 04:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I wonder what the worlds longest real forum thread is. I know there are a lot of silly word game threads and "introduce yourself" type threads out there which are ridiculously long, but what is the longest thread on a real topic? Would be kinda cool if we broke a world record.

Alexander Hanff

Mox3d 24-06-2008 04:46

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
My simple issue with phorm is that for example with it, that I cannot guarantee client confidentiality. When your clients include blue chip companies as well as some of the worlds largest autmobile manufacturers you too would want to be able to 100% assure confidentiality of design related communications.

If I cannot guarantee security, I will use an alternative service. Or be forced to retrograde to old school communication methods. It is clear cut.

Digbert 24-06-2008 05:00

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34582826)
regarding the trials lets not forget Chris M's Jun 13, 2008 8:50 PM betaBT post

they were expecting to run an 8 months large scale trial, thats a very long time just to see if it scales well.

you might be forgiven for thinking it could be just long enough to try and recoop their investment in the hardware and related costs from the advertisers profits before it got pulled...

and anyone care to run the No. of potential RIPA violations extrapolated from the figures we already know ,never mind the other laws, broken copyright might be another good one to estimate ;)

i hope he kept a copy of that T&C (one more A4 printout for the court documents some day),as true to Phorm, its now missing on that link.

http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/me...ID=26542#26542
"I hadn't/haven't been invited to take part but, out of curiosity, I thought I'd have a look and upon reading the T&Cs of: https://www2.formwize.com/run/survey3.cfm?ID=1081, I noticed under the heading: "Service Schedule" this line:
* The duration of the next generation speed trial is at our sole discretion but is initially scheduled to run from February 2008 to October 2008.
....
"

In Chris M's post on the betaBT forum he seems to have got Formwize confused with Phorm/Webwise .

I think Formwize are just an innocent company trialling their own software.
http://www.formwize.com/

AlexanderHanff 24-06-2008 08:14

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/20.png

popper 24-06-2008 08:38

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
that might be the case Digbert, but it seems very odd, the context, and the seen T&C is the all important thing here, but as that is the first instance of the name on btbeta we shall have to wait for the answers if they come.

one things clear, that http://www.formwize.com/overview.htm makes it clear they are a commercial Form survey data collection site.

"Using just your web browser, create your Form with our intuitive Form editor. Select from 6 different Form types Survey, Event, Test, Competion, Poll and Rating boxes with over a dozen question types (single choice, multiple choice, rating scales, drop-down menus, and more...)."

perhaps BT or Phorm used them for a Phorm trial mockup and ChrisM just got lucky hitting the page at the right moment to get the BT page, there are some very Resourceful search terms users, and many bots out there if you know were to look.

and we already know they are not the sharpest tools in the shed as it were ;) only their 3rd party software coders seemed to be somewhat on the ball with things like hiding rootkits, and impersonation or forger's of other peoples site content.

if he kept a copy of the webpage form and T&C ,that should clear things up perhaps.

Dephormation 24-06-2008 09:34

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Incorrect link; https://www2.formwize.com/run/survey3.cfm?ID=1081,

Correct link; https://www2.formwize.com/run/survey3.cfm?ID=1081

;)

PS... should add I'm pretty confident they're not directly connected to Phorm. Just unlucky with their choice of name.

popper 24-06-2008 09:48

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
doh! ;) i should have picked his typo up (everyone should grab a copy now anyway as thats good for bulking out the case files a little more ;) ) but my main point was the 8 months trial time OC.

interestingly "© BT plc 2007 All rights reserved"
on the webform https://www2.formwize.com/run/survey3.cfm?ID=1081

and "Issue 1 – 28th February 2008 Doc Ref: BT1090 © British Telecommunications plc " on the T&C
http://www.formwize.com/customerincludes/TsandCs.pdf

can anyone see the dates they were placed on the web server to get a clearer picture perhaps ;)

Pete, the T&C is interesting for some generic no's (their current Max liability insurance coverage perhaps), and you could have some fun with them as your starting point claiming your fee's in court perhaps.

"29. We also accept responsibility for loss or damage to your physical property arising from our negligence. We will pay up to £1 million in any 12-month period for this loss or damage."

"
31. Unless paragraph 28 and/or paragraph 29 apply, we will not pay you more than £10,000 in compensation (even if we have been negligent) in any 12-month period. "

and OC, its not for your negligent company to decide the Compensation or the time scale for that matter, thats for your (if your lucky, intercepted BT residential broadband using) presiding QC to decide ;)

Dephormation 24-06-2008 10:49

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Don't understand shares enough to know whether this is significant or not. Its the first financial news published for a while...

Transfer of Shares from Unrestricted Line (PHRX) to Reg S Line (PHRM)

"Dealings in the shares under the new ticker symbol are expected to commence on 30 June 2008."

121Media have had problems with this before.

Wild Oscar 24-06-2008 10:58

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by |Kippa| (Post 34580867)
Feck, if you throttle newsgroup and p2p ports, then what exactly can you downloadload at 20mbit? Or is that the point, they don't want you to use it. As I have said before I am going to wait till 50mbit comes out and see what happens after that. As for saying that the average user doesn't know about this site and is more likely to use Facebook et al. Why not create a anti stm/phorm/throttling Virgin Media group in Facebook. This way you might significantly raise the profile of what they are doing and at the same time put the 'the average user' in touch with what is happening, also if a lot of people register to it that will create public pressure on VM, it would not cost anything and would be free so there is nothing lost in doing it.

I have created an Anti Phorm/STM/Throttling group in Facebook. If you want to join it then here is the link to the group:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=63826810720

Quoted from another thread re. Throttling/STM .. I'm not into Facebook myself, it might be worth joining up just for this though!!

Dephormation 24-06-2008 11:26

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583018)

This seems very weird to me; if I read it correctly [noting comments above]

They are moving shares from the "unrestricted line, trading under PHRX, to the Reg S line trading under PHRM".

Ie, Moving shares from the unrestricted line that can be traded without Regulation S restriction, to Regulation S line which cannot be sold to US investors.

Why would they do that? Is it somehow easier to trade as Regulation S shares? Is this associated with the £0.5M shares sold yesterday?

Regulation S has a very poor reputation. I'd have thought you'd want to avoid being associated with Regulation S share trading as far as you possibly could.

Or perhaps that's why I'm in IT not share trading.

Ahh. In general terms, if you were a US company and wanted to flog stock off to people outside USA who would then have no comeback under Regulation S, you'd (presumeably) transfer the stock from unrestricted to restricted, then flog it? [noting I know nothing about share trading]

davethejag 24-06-2008 11:43

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hi All, I have just had a worrying thing happen while on the Forum (not logged in). I usually go to this thread from the NTHell website, the link to this thread is always there. I clicked on the thread and it took me to page 666 which I had seen before, I clicked on page 667 and it was very slow to load, I know this sort of thing has been happening a lot lately and it has been said that it may be VM work causing the problem. I have "refreshed" to try and speed things up a bit in the past, this time I clicked on page 667 again and immediately a new window opened up for another website, I have never been to this website before (the link to it below). Is this what they call "Targeted Advertising"?

http://www.yesloansuk.com/?gclid=CKf...FQ2L1Qod7EJ7WA

Dave.

icsys 24-06-2008 11:45

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davethejag (Post 34583050)
Hi All, I have just had a worrying thing happen while on the Forum (not logged in). I usually go to this thread from the NTHell website, the link to this thread is always there. I clicked on the thread and it took me to page 666 ...

Is it the devil at work? :erm:

Yes loans. It is possible you clicked a link by accident on the page while refreshing?

davethejag 24-06-2008 11:52

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34583051)
Is it the devil at work? :erm:

That link appears to be Yes loans


I was waiting for that one! and the Devil being?

Dave.

---------- Post added at 10:52 ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34583051)
Is it the devil at work? :erm:

Yes loans. It is possible you clicked a link by accident on the page while refreshing?

I didn't refresh, I clicked on the page 667 tab again, I am not sure if there is a link to that Yes Loan website on that page but will have a look. I am sure that I did not click anywhere else though.

Dave.

Florence 24-06-2008 11:53

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583046)
This seems very weird to me; if I read it correctly [noting comments above]

They are moving shares from the "unrestricted line, trading under PHRX, to the Reg S line trading under PHRM".

Ie, Moving shares from the unrestricted line that can be traded without Regulation S restriction, to Regulation S line which cannot be sold to US investors.

Why would they do that? Is it somehow easier to trade as Regulation S shares? Is this associated with the £0.5M shares sold yesterday?

Regulation S has a very poor reputation. I'd have thought you'd want to avoid being associated with Regulation S share trading as far as you possibly could.

Or perhaps that's why I'm in IT not share trading.

Ahh. In general terms, if you were a US company and wanted to flog stock off to people outside USA who would then have no comeback under Regulation S, you'd (presumeably) transfer the stock from unrestricted to restricted, then flog it? [noting I know nothing about share trading]

Why does reading the page you linked to not suprise me knowing who is incharge of phorm..

Quote:

We offer this disturbing thought. The federal securities laws, the very rules that were calculated to discourage deception and protect investors, provide a pair of mechanisms that fuel fraudulent stock schemes. Or, to put it slightly differently, securities laws that are designed to foster transparency and disclosure instead protect silence and deception.

One fundamental precept underlies our federal securities laws - investors must be given access to material information about public companies and the people who run and control them. Yet two federal regulations not only ignore that mandate but tolerate secrecy.

What are these tools that can be used to distribute stock clandestinely to the four corners of the globe, conceal identities, launder funds, and defraud investors? They are every con artist's dream and every law enforcement official's nightmare - and they share a common root, the letter "S." They are Regulation S, which allows U.S. public companies to sell stock overseas without registration, and Form S-8, which enables companies to register shares instantly.

When they were first enacted, these two regulations were relatively benign, but promoters and manipulators have discovered ways to utilize both Regulation S and Form S-8 to further illicit schemes.
The bold parts I have done to draw attention to them..

icsys 24-06-2008 11:59

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
More from that link...

Quote:

Regulation S was crafted as a safe harbor that allows public companies to sell shares to non-U.S. citizens. In essence, while regulators wanted to assure that U.S. investors had adequate access to information about public companies, non-U.S. residents were not afforded the same protection. Those non-U.S. residents would be permitted to buy and sell shares, among themselves, even though the issuer had never registered those shares with the SEC.

In other words, companies were given license to do abroad what they could not do at home - dump shares on the marketplace without registration or disclosure.

Why would lawmakers, who so carefully crafted securities laws that demanded both registration and disclosure, also create this massive loophole in the system?...

...In other words, Regulation S is an invitation for abuse. Its potential harm far outweighs its actual benefit.

HamsterWheel 24-06-2008 12:11

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I see everyone is getting excited at 50,000 shares being reclassified.

All it will be is some shares being put in a different pot, probably so they are availalbe for option exercises for US employees.

Not everything has to be a major conspiracy you know !!!

davethejag 24-06-2008 12:14

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
BT Trial/PC Pro report -

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/208191/p...mminently.html

Dave.

icsys 24-06-2008 12:17

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davethejag (Post 34583081)

This is from the PC Pro article...
Quote:

BT denies the rumours of an imminent trial, claiming that there is no planned date for the test, but said that customers would be sent invites beforehand.

Phorm similarly claims that it has no current plans, and that it would be given only 24 hours' notice to begin a test with no prior warning, as it was "BT's trial".
Quote:

"We're moving into the testing phase. BT's the most advanced - you're more likely to see it come to deployment than anyone else," Phorm spokesman Alex Laity told PC Pro. "BT has always been committed to doing this. The other two [Virgin Media and TalkTalk] are as well. There's commitment from all three."

popper 24-06-2008 12:21

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jtechs (Post 34580138)
!!PLEASE STOP TALKING TO IT ( :) ), IT IS JUST TRYING TO DILUTE THE SUBJECT WITH HIS PROPAGANDA!!

But on a side note.

I will be going to the protest and bringing at least one person, + a HDD Camera + a good SLR digital camera & a couple of lenses. I work as IT Manager so i can print off some stuff (as much as i want for free). If anyone wants some A3/A4 colour stuff let me know and i will arrange it for the day. I will record the entire thing and host it on my website (unlimited bandwidth) for everyone.

If anyone has some suggestions of what else i should bring (digital projector?) let me know
some cds/dvds with the leaked report or some other factual information?

-Jtech

thats a very generous offer jtechs, perhaps nows the time to co-ordinate all the other video feeds capability people might also be taking to create some off the cuff video clips that can be streamed to the various free online websites etc as tasters of progress and any potential breaking news items.

far better to work out your needs and do a practice run before the event, its also very easy to use ADHOC networking to make a NoDPI wireless lan many people can then connect to.

it only takes one person in that group to have a second wireless device set as the web gateway or other connection to the web for everyone else to also be able to use that interweb connection and shared wireless Adhoc LAN.

even make your own adhoc NoDPI LAN website and Messageboard ,IRC etc as long as you co-ordinate the used local IP and port no's etc, for the people in range able to connect to it.

remember though, all day power is the real killer of such a simple Adhoc networks for your audio and video blogs, editing and uploading onsite etc or whatever you like to pass the quiet moments.

just a little thought beforehand and some live cd (slax andyour required modules etc)could be enougth do do all this and make sure you are ready to collect and diseminate the live details as they happen.

a cheap car DC to AC inverter from the likes of argos http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st...s=CAR+INVERTOR
is always a good option to re-charge flagging laptop and related batterys if you have a car handy (keep an eye on your cars battery though, or you might flaten that and not be able to start the engine lol) and no domestic powerpoint to plug into.

we can do far better than the last time with a promise of a 80/20 ,Phorm pro uncut video etc, if we rely on our own means ,kit and talent.

remember to ask any Tv crews to release any footage you take part in to you to use as you please (for non [compeating] commercial use), that way if they agree theres yet more diverse footage to the pot, if you dont ask for that as a condition you wont get the footage will you ( and ask for a contact name and no. to chase it up later and get the clips).

http://moblog.co.uk/

as just one example, or if you can arrange some space on any webside server you can also upload your video clips in any format you like, and link to them in a simple URL .

or even in vuse by making a torrent and releasing it here in a new phorm demo thread.

perhaps we can find a well served Open Torrent server or put one up on one or two of our members sites before the event

a one off torrent and file uploading to any server is always a good thing to take the strain off any temp wireless wifi link you might find during the demo.

it seems theres several wifi points on route but im not sure their truely open and free or if you need some pre-registered card or ID on a providers network.

perhaps a local user can walk the route with a laptop and check before hand?

http://www.vuze.com/Publish.html;jse...C6810CAB.web09

tarka 24-06-2008 12:50

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
If I recall correctly you can request a free PAYG sim card from T-Mobile and this allows you internet access via a mobile phone for £1 per day. Not sure of the exact details but will try to dig them out this evening if someone doesn't beat me to it.

AlexanderHanff 24-06-2008 12:56

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
We have connectivity sorted via a 3G Dongle so no need to worry about that anymore.

I will be back later I have a lot of stuff to do today.

Alexander Hanff

JohnnyWashngo 24-06-2008 13:06

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Plenty of action today so far :)

http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/deta...&timeframe=480

Dephormation 24-06-2008 13:14

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel (Post 34583079)
I see everyone is getting excited at 50,000 shares being reclassified.

All it will be is some shares being put in a different pot, probably so they are availalbe for option exercises for US employees.

Not everything has to be a major conspiracy you know !!!

OK Hamsterman, as my finger hesitates over the ignore list, perhaps there is something you can contribute.

Why would someone convert valuable unrestricted shares, into less valuable restricted Reg S shares? How could that be a 'good thing' (tm).

Why couldn't US employees sell the more valuable unrestricted shares as unrestricted shares?

I'm keen to understand. It seems like a good way to devalue your own currency (in effect).

The only motivation I can think of is denying the buyer of those shares the unrestricted rights, ie full rights available to US citizens.

Pete

popper 24-06-2008 13:28

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34583120)
We have connectivity sorted via a 3G Dongle so no need to worry about that anymore.

I will be back later I have a lot of stuff to do today.

Alexander Hanff

its welcome that we have at least 1 3G 720Kbit/s download/400Kbit/s upload at average speeds(according to tests i ran the other day on my lads new school orange 3G ,ironic they are using them given the sale of unlawfully collected customer data transactions etc, but thats for another time)

but that will be good for a single or at best 10 users IRC to the net and the odd live audio and video blog.

i assume others will also bring their 3G and Wifi 11g/n wireless kit to suppliment and enhance the chances of mitigating a web failure.

a quick NoDPI Adhoc Lan setup is always a good option to move data throughout the NoDPI attendees laptops OC, irespective of a temp working web connection or not, its a long day.

HamsterWheel 24-06-2008 13:35

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Dephormation - the reason is no doubt tax.
The shares are of equal value, their prices mirror each other albeit with a time lag as the Reg S shares are thinly held and thinly traded.

Florence 24-06-2008 13:42

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
There will be a live feed from inside the AGM I need to sort out the links so people outside can see what is going on inside... I had read this live recording of the AGM just hope live means that and not a released at a later time..

Dephormation 24-06-2008 13:43

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel (Post 34583079)
I see everyone is getting excited at 50,000 shares being reclassified.

All it will be is some shares being put in a different pot, probably so they are availalbe for option exercises for US employees.

Not everything has to be a major conspiracy you know !!!

If unrestricted shares are £16.00 (bid).

And restricted shares are £11.00.

Then converting 50,000 unrestricted shares to 50,000 restricted shares loses you 50,000 * (£16.00-£11.00) = £250,000.00

Simply to deny the recipient full unrestricted rights.

Why would you do something like that?

Florence 24-06-2008 13:51

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583154)
If unrestricted shares are £16.00.

And restricted shares are £11.00.

Then converting 50,000 unrestricted shares to 50,000 restricted shares loses you 50,000 * (£16.00-£11.00) = £250,000.00

Simply to deny the recipient full unrestricted rights.

Why would you do something like that?

to grab extra profit from the unrestricted no protection remember and do a moonlight :D

Dephormation 24-06-2008 14:02

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583154)
If unrestricted shares are £16.00 (bid).

And restricted shares are £11.00.

Then converting 50,000 unrestricted shares to 50,000 restricted shares loses you 50,000 * (£16.00-£11.00) = £250,000.00

Simply to deny the recipient full unrestricted rights.

Why would you do something like that?

If I repeat the same calc using the mid point bid/offer for unrestricted shares at around £20.00 the calc gives you a loss of £450,000 by converting the shares. Why would anyone do it if not to deny valuable rights to the recipient?

---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel (Post 34583148)
Dephormation - the reason is no doubt tax.
The shares are of equal value, their prices mirror each other albeit with a time lag as the Reg S shares are thinly held and thinly traded.

I've got a £10 note in my pocket here. Its very nice.

Would you care to swap it for a twenty?

BtKoW 24-06-2008 14:06

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hi all,

Using Tesco.net, which uses Virgin Media as the backbone. Shamless plug, its not a bad service :)

email from support :

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

With regards to this, Tesco internet access are not looking to use Webwise or Phorm.

If I can be of any more help, please do not hesitate to contact me again.


On another point, sry if its already been covered, but when u go onto Phorms website & read the FAQ, then select the How to opt out link how Convenient that the link is knackered. . .

Suffice to say that Bad phrom was sent an anon feeback.

Keep pluggin away guys.

vicz 24-06-2008 14:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
This must be why knacker of the yard is too busy to investigate the BT illegal trials http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...iz_cigar_case/

bluecar1 24-06-2008 14:12

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
interesting link, not seen this one before

http://www.phonecallsuk.co.uk/bt-webwise.html

peter

HamsterWheel 24-06-2008 14:18

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
if you try to sell 50,000 shares you'll find that the brokers don't want them at whatever price they are currently quoting and the price they will offer you will equate to what the normal shares are selling at.

Do you lot have to find a conspiracy in everything you do ?!!

If there was money to be made swapping between the two types of shares then investors would quickly do it.

Another lesson from Investing 101 for you all ;-)

Dephormation 24-06-2008 14:21

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BtKoW (Post 34583186)
On another point, sry if its already been covered, but when u go onto Phorms website & read the FAQ, then select the How to opt out link how Convenient that the link is knackered. . .

Suffice to say that Bad phrom was sent an anon feeback.

Ahh, you discovered!

You can't opt out! (even if they bothered to ask in the first place).

And if you operate a web site? You have no choice at all.

And of course, it should be opt in.... where not opting in means you have nothing to do with Phorms kit.

bluecar1 24-06-2008 14:51

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
has eveerybody gone????

not seen any updates on my screen since pete at 13:21 ??

refreshed my browser many times

i cant beleive no posts for 30 minutes this time of day

peter

Wildie 24-06-2008 15:00

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
we lurking muhaha, anyway some with a a/c on iii need to show someone what VM have said about been signed up to phorm.

tdadyslexia 24-06-2008 15:03

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BtKoW (Post 34583186)
[snip]
Keep pluggin away guys.

Hi BtKoW and :welcome: to the Forum.

Florence 24-06-2008 15:06

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Sorry I am here but also searching online for information, :D

serial 24-06-2008 15:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34583192)
interesting link, not seen this one before

http://www.phonecallsuk.co.uk/bt-webwise.html

peter

That's MadSlugs page from over on BadPhorm. Put it together back in April.

Dephormation 24-06-2008 15:43

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel (Post 34583197)
if you try to sell 50,000 shares you'll find that the brokers don't want them at whatever price they are currently quoting and the price they will offer you will equate to what the normal shares are selling at.

Do you lot have to find a conspiracy in everything you do ?!!

If there was money to be made swapping between the two types of shares then investors would quickly do it.

Another lesson from Investing 101 for you all ;-)

I went out at lunch, got an ice cream, and though doh! USD conversion. So I just checked it all out again.

Pleased to say, I think I am not wrong. All currencies are GBX.

PHRX.L; bid offer spread is £16.00 - £25.00, mid point is £20.50

PHRM.L; bid offer spread is £11.00 - £11.75, mid point is £11.37

So if I take 50,000 of PHRX.L (worth 50,000 x £20.50 = £1,025,000)

and convert it to

PHRM.L (worth 50,000 x £11.37 = £587,500)

I lose £1,025,000 - £587,500 = £437,500.

Almost half the value. And my unrestricted shares suddenly become restricted Regulation S shares. I can't sell them in the USA.

Now, I know nothing about share dealing it must be said, but to my untrained eye that looks like an awfully poor investment choice.

If this was a stock people wanted to buy, why devalue it, and sell it at half price.

Seems barmy to me.

The reason we watch Phorm so carefully, is because when we don't, strange things start happening to our net connections.

HamsterWheel 24-06-2008 15:57

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Dephormation - you go and try to buy any quantity of PHRX shares and you'll find there simply aren't any for sale. So the price is irrelevant.

bluecar1 24-06-2008 16:03

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel (Post 34583266)
Dephormation - you go and try to buy any quantity of PHRX shares and you'll find there simply aren't any for sale. So the price is irrelevant.

that is because you can only buy the PHRX stocks in the US, the reg S shares can be sold outside the US

that is the reason for the reg S shares.

no point having an international company if only US investors can invest

but reg S has been seen by many as having insufficient controls to prevent various types of fraud

correct me if i am wrong

peter

Dephormation 24-06-2008 16:05

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel (Post 34583266)
Dephormation - you go and try to buy any quantity of PHRX shares and you'll find there simply aren't any for sale. So the price is irrelevant.

I'm not talking about buying them. I'm talking about selling.

For arguments sake, suppose you had 50,000 to sell.

What would you do? Sell them as (valuable) unrestricted stock? Or convert them to (less valuable) Regulation S stock?

Why would anyone convert any unrestricted stock to Regulation S stock?

HamsterWheel 24-06-2008 16:07

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
the company converted them, as I said in my first post on the subject, probably so they could issue them to employees taking up share options.

Next conspiracy theory ?

Florence 24-06-2008 16:08

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34583270)
that is because you can only buy the PHRX stocks in the US, the reg S shares can be sold outside the US

that is the reason for the reg S shares.

no point having an international company if only US investors can invest

but reg S has been seen by many as having insufficient controls to prevent various types of fraud

correct me if i am wrong

peter

We offer this disturbing thought. The federal securities laws, the very rules that were calculated to discourage deception and protect investors, provide a pair of mechanisms that fuel fraudulent stock schemes. Or, to put it slightly differently, securities laws that are designed to foster transparency and disclosure instead protect silence and deception.

One fundamental precept underlies our federal securities laws - investors must be given access to material information about public companies and the people who run and control them. Yet two federal regulations not only ignore that mandate but tolerate secrecy.

What are these tools that can be used to distribute stock clandestinely to the four corners of the globe, conceal identities, launder funds, and defraud investors? They are every con artist's dream and every law enforcement official's nightmare - and they share a common root, the letter "S." They are Regulation S, which allows U.S. public companies to sell stock overseas without registration, and Form S-8, which enables companies to register shares instantly.

When they were first enacted, these two regulations were relatively benign, but promoters and manipulators have discovered ways to utilize both Regulation S and Form S-8 to further illicit schemes.

BetBlowWhistler 24-06-2008 16:19

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583258)
I went out at lunch, got an ice cream, and though doh! USD conversion. So I just checked it all out again.

Pleased to say, I think I am not wrong. All currencies are GBX.

PHRX.L; bid offer spread is £16.00 - £25.00, mid point is £20.50

PHRM.L; bid offer spread is £11.00 - £11.75, mid point is £11.37

So if I take 50,000 of PHRX.L (worth 50,000 x £20.50 = £1,025,000)

and convert it to

PHRM.L (worth 50,000 x £11.37 = £587,500)

I lose £1,025,000 - £587,500 = £437,500.

Almost half the value. And my unrestricted shares suddenly become restricted Regulation S shares. I can't sell them in the USA.

Now, I know nothing about share dealing it must be said, but to my untrained eye that looks like an awfully poor investment choice.

If this was a stock people wanted to buy, why devalue it, and sell it at half price.

Seems barmy to me.

The reason we watch Phorm so carefully, is because when we don't, strange things start happening to our net connections.

From what I read about Reg-S shares doesn't this mean they can now be sold in the Uk and elsewhere in the world? (without the protection afforded to the USA based shares).

Perhaps it's something you would need to do if you were going to allocate shares to uk employees or something. IANASB (that's stock broker, not son-of-a-bitch, that would be IANASOAB..and would also be a lie :p: )

HamsterWheel 24-06-2008 16:21

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Form Phorm's website - no doubt a place where you all fear to tread !

"Phorm's outstanding shares trade under two ticker symbols: PHRM and PHRX. The PHRM shares are subject to certain trading restrictions. The PHRX shares are unrestricted.

As of 3 March, 2008, we had a total of 11,370,898 PHRM shares outstanding. Of the PHRM shares, 434,000 shares were issued on 22 June, 2007, these shares remain subject to the one-year distribution compliance restrictions on sales to US persons pursuant to Regulation S under the US Securities Act of 1933, as amended. The remainder of our PHRM shares are not subject to distribution compliance restrictions under Regulation S. However, all our PHRM shares contain US Securities Act of 1933 legends, and absent registration, holders must have an available exemption (e.g. Rule 144) in connection with any sales to US persons.

As of 3 March, 2008, we had a total of 850,326 PHRX shares outstanding. The PHRX shares do not contain any restrictive legend. In general, these shares are freely tradable unless they are held by persons who are (or during the last three months were) affiliates of Phorm."

Portly_Giraffe 24-06-2008 16:28

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583272)
For arguments sake, suppose you had 50,000 to sell.

What would you do? Sell them as (valuable) unrestricted stock? Or convert them to (less valuable) Regulation S stock?

Why would anyone convert any unrestricted stock to Regulation S stock?

Maybe you would take the loss to hand them out to nervous UK and Russian staff to keep them on the payroll? it's a reasonable corollary of what the Hamster is suggesting.

MovedGoalPosts 24-06-2008 16:30

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
There is a lot of discussion in this thread about shares and prices:

Nothing on this board should be accepted as any recommendation as to whether or not any person should or should not buy, sell, or otherwise invest in any company or organisation. Any reader of this forum should consult a competent advisor before any decision is reached.

Dephormation 24-06-2008 16:40

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Can't comprehend this. The article headline is "Phorm trial to begin 'imminently' ".

But the text within says

Quote:

BT denies the rumours of an imminent trial, claiming that there is no planned date for the test, but said that customers would be sent invites beforehand. Phorm similarly claims that it has no current plans, and that it would be given only 24 hours' notice to begin a test with no prior warning, as it was "BT's trial".
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/208191/phorm-trial-to-begin-imminently.html

---------- Post added at 15:40 ---------- Previous post was at 15:31 ----------

More Home Office nonsense

BetBlowWhistler 24-06-2008 16:46

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583300)


To paraphrase the response shown in that url..

"We are a useless bunch of ******s and we don't know why you continue to pays us huge sums of cash for what amounts to getting into bed with big business. But thanks anyway. Ta ta."

jelv 24-06-2008 17:02

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

Isn't it time they considered changing the name of that web site?

icsys 24-06-2008 17:03

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583300)

Re more Home Office nonsense.

Consider the facts...

In a statement, the Home Office emphasised that the note should not be taken as gospel by anyone. It said: "We can't comment on the legal position of targeted online advertising services. It is up for [sic] the courts to interpret the law.

"We did prepare an informal guidance note. It should not be taken as a definitive statement or interpretation of the law, which only the courts can give. It wasn't, and didn't purport to be, based upon a detailed technical examination of any particular technology."

It was not intended for publication, but was disseminated by one of the companies.

"The note expressed a generalised view on whether RIPA was relevant to targeted online advertising. However, it was not formal guidance nor was it a definitive statement of the law. "


Based on the FACT that the HO cannot say whether it is legal or not and DID NOT examine the technology nor did they instruct any technical experts to examine it, the Home Office 'informal guidance note' should be withdrawn with immediate effect. They should never have given the view in the first place.

It's a good job that it was leaked into the public domain to show how incompetent the Home Office is on such matters.

They will not retract, no doubt because of the embarrassment of admitting they were wrong.
Because of this absurdity, both phorm and BT believe they can commit corporate eavesdropping without fear of redress.

bluecar1 24-06-2008 17:15

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel (Post 34583290)
Form Phorm's website - no doubt a place where you all fear to tread !

"Phorm's outstanding shares trade under two ticker symbols: PHRM and PHRX. The PHRM shares are subject to certain trading restrictions. The PHRX shares are unrestricted.

As of 3 March, 2008, we had a total of 11,370,898 PHRM shares outstanding. Of the PHRM shares, 434,000 shares were issued on 22 June, 2007, these shares remain subject to the one-year distribution compliance restrictions on sales to US persons pursuant to Regulation S under the US Securities Act of 1933, as amended. The remainder of our PHRM shares are not subject to distribution compliance restrictions under Regulation S. However, all our PHRM shares contain US Securities Act of 1933 legends, and absent registration, holders must have an available exemption (e.g. Rule 144) in connection with any sales to US persons.

As of 3 March, 2008, we had a total of 850,326 PHRX shares outstanding. The PHRX shares do not contain any restrictive legend. In general, these shares are freely tradable unless they are held by persons who are (or during the last three months were) affiliates of Phorm."


so this would enable phorm to give share options to employees of non US citizenship (eg in UK or Russia), fair enough, in return though the value of the company is reduced as the overall value of shares (both protected and Reg S combined) is reduced

and restrictions do not allow them to be return to protected status for 12 calander months (although loopholes do appear to be around to negate this restriction, like offshore companies etc)

Peter

(as the moderator says
Nothing on this board should be accepted as any recommendation as to whether or not any person should or should not buy, sell, or otherwise invest in any company or organisation. Any reader of this forum should consult a competent advisor before any decision is reached


---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34583336)
Re more Home Office nonsense.

Consider the facts...

In a statement, the Home Office emphasised that the note should not be taken as gospel by anyone. It said: "We can't comment on the legal position of targeted online advertising services. It is up for [sic] the courts to interpret the law.

"We did prepare an informal guidance note. It should not be taken as a definitive statement or interpretation of the law, which only the courts can give. It wasn't, and didn't purport to be, based upon a detailed technical examination of any particular technology."

Based on the FACT that the HO cannot say whether it is legal or not and DID NOT examine the technology nor did they instruct any technical experts to examine it, the Home Office 'note' should be withdrawn with immediate effect. they should never have given the view in the first place.

It's a good job that it was leaked into the public domain to show how incompetent the Home Office is on such matters.

They will not retract, no doubt because of the embarrassment of admitting they were wrong.
Because of this absurdity, both phorm and BT believe they can commit corporate eavesdropping without fear of redress.

It is the age old marketing / research classic of ask the right (preloaded) question to get the answer you want

I.E. would you want the adverts you see appear to be more relevant (most will answer yes)

as opposed to

would you mind all of your browsing interecepted, analysed and your privacy invaded to provide more relevant adverts (most will answer NO)

without knowing the exact question and information provided (very little if leaks are to be believed) we can't say how much spin both the HO and phorm have put on the Q & A

OldBear 24-06-2008 19:02

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34583346)
<snip>
It is the age old marketing / research classic of ask the right (preloaded) question to get the answer you want

I.E. would you want the adverts you see appear to be more relevant (most will answer yes)

as opposed to

would you mind all of your browsing interecepted, analysed and your privacy invaded to provide more relevant adverts (most will answer NO)

without knowing the exact question and information provided (very little if leaks are to be believed) we can't say how much spin both the HO and phorm have put on the Q & A

A perfect example, as explained by the ultimate Master of these matters, the superb Sir Humphrey Appleby from Yes Minister.
Quote:

Sir Humphrey tries to teach Bernard about the worthlessness of polls, telling him to imagine he'll be interviewed:
"Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the number of young people without jobs?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Do you think there is a lack of discipline in our Comprehensive schools?"
Bernard: "Yes!"
Sir Humphrey: "Do you think young people welcome some authority and leadership in their lives?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Do you think they respond to a challenge?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Would you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?"
Bernard: "Oh...well, I suppose I might be."
Sir Humphrey: "Yes or No?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Of course you would, Bernard. After all you're told you can't say no to that. So they don't mention the first five questions and they publish the last one."
[...] So, alternatively, the young lady can get the opposite result."
Bernard: "How?"

Sir Humphrey: "Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the danger of war?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Are you worried about the growth of armaments?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Do you think there is a danger in giving young people guns and teaching them how to kill?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Do you think it is wrong to force people to take up arms against their will?"
Bernard: "Yes."
Sir Humphrey: "Would you oppose the reintroduction of National Service?"
Bernard: "Yes."

Sir Humphrey: "There you are. You see, Bernard, the perfect balanced sample."
This is how BT will get their 10,000 trialists. :)

OB

warescouse 24-06-2008 19:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OldBear (Post 34583471)
A perfect example, as explained by the ultimate Master of these matters, the superb Sir Humphrey Appleby from Yes Minister.


This is how BT will get their 10,000 trialists. :)

OB

You are most certainly correct with your comments but remember that the first two trials of Phorms (121Media) interception of BT customers HTTP data was certainly illegal according to unbiased analysis. It is most likely that also will be any future trial.

The bottom line is no matter what they do to opt people in or out, they will probably always be breaking copyright and possibly other laws by profiling most the other websites in the world without the website owners consent. Robots.txt on a website allowing Googlebot does not consent to Phorm. This issue will not go away. (I suspect neither will many of the other issues).

If Phorm/Webwise is supposed to be so good, why don't Phorm instigate their own User-agent string ID and watch how many, or how few, websites clamber to ensure Phorm is allowed to profile their data.

I suspect they don't because it is of my opinion that they know Phorm will not be wanted by most site owners who are informed as to what they do. It is my opinion that they produce lots of clouds and fog to smother this issue and hope it will go away (which it wont).

The issue about Phorm having the ability to track individual users by email addresses and other innocent data that they will profile from many types of HTTP data will not go away either. Phorm must be stopped.

Frank Rizzo 24-06-2008 20:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
If only the UK politicians had as much clout as the US:

Charter Freezes Web Eavesdropping Plan

Quote:

Charter Communications, the nation's fourth largest ISP, is indefinitely halting plans to test advertising technology that wiretaps customers' web usage, after customers criticized the idea and a powerful House Democrat raised questions about its legality.

warescouse 24-06-2008 20:21

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo (Post 34583517)
If only the UK politicians had as much clout as the US:

Charter Freezes Web Eavesdropping Plan

Excellent find. Lets hope UK powers that be do the same! One for the iii members to quote also?

Frank Rizzo 24-06-2008 20:25

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
We just need one of our ISPs to follow suit now.

Come on VM ! Do the right thing.

JackSon 24-06-2008 20:28

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo (Post 34583517)
If only the UK politicians had as much clout as the US:

Charter Freezes Web Eavesdropping Plan


Nice scoop Frank! Puts things into perspective when the US, the land where a company who has data on a customer has every right to do what they like with it (in comparison to the DPA over here) takes a protective stance against such a technology. Hopefully some ripples shall amount to something at some stage.

AlexanderHanff 24-06-2008 20:33

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I had a few words with the author of this article and he has edited it accordingly:

http://www.netimperative.com/news/20...d-system-phorm

It is markedly different to the original version and no longer reads like a Phorm press release.

Anyone else getting a database error on DigitalSpy?

Alexander Hanff

icsys 24-06-2008 20:40

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34583532)
Anyone else getting a database error on DigitalSpy?

Alexander Hanff

No not at my end.

perhaps all these news outlets that are publishing the Phorm BT trial spin should be advised that Phorms 'evil twin' over the pond has hit on hard times.

Wildie 24-06-2008 20:59

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34583544)
No not at my end.

perhaps all these news outlets that are publishing the Phorm BT trial spin should be advised that Phorms 'evil twin' over the pond has hit on hard times.

maybe that`s why they trying their luck over here knowing it`s falling apart over there.:shocked:

AlexanderHanff 24-06-2008 21:28

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
https://nodpi.org/2008/06/24/nebuad-...-of-us-market/

Alexander Hanff

NTLVictim 24-06-2008 21:34

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34583603)


<sarcasm> weeping buckets here...</sarcasm>

:D

BetBlowWhistler 24-06-2008 21:47

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Not sure if anyone has picked up on this yet, but we might well have our thunder well and truly stolen on the 16th by the Unison strike.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...te-strike.html

Privacy_Matters 24-06-2008 21:49

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BetBlowWhistler (Post 34583621)
Not sure if anyone has picked up on this yet, but we might well have our thunder well and truly stolen on the 16th by the Unison strike.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...te-strike.html

Just go to the picket lines with flyers and a tub of paste - and stick anti-phorm flyers over their placards :angel:

EDIT: On a serious note, outside in the picket lines - 1'000 angry workers supping tea.... INSTANT AUDIENCE....

serial 24-06-2008 21:49

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Excellent news, I wonder if Google had anything to do with that.

Charter stopping NebuAd, not the protests :)

SelfProtection 24-06-2008 21:53

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BetBlowWhistler (Post 34583621)
Not sure if anyone has picked up on this yet, but we might well have our thunder well and truly stolen on the 16th by the Unison strike.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...te-strike.html

It may be wise to check out what Services will be affected & how it may possibly affect this Protest.

warescouse 24-06-2008 21:59

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34583603)

Perhaps another angle for the BT shareholders 'shindig' is a couple of sympathy posters for the poor BT shareholders to read. :D

Lets not forget it is their shares and funds are being put at risk by the possible Cavalier attitude of their Directors and Executives by associating BT with illegal data spying and poorly chosen partners in crime.

serial 24-06-2008 22:00

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Also I noticed that BT Broadband payed for a full front/back cover ad of todays Metro. Virgin payed for 1 full page, one third page and one corner ad. I reckon they are getting desperate.

AlexanderHanff 24-06-2008 22:05

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I am currently in discussions with an old friend of mine who is a producer for BBC's Newsnight to see if they would be willing to cover the Phorm issue. I can't promise anything but I have known him several years as a result of him interviewing me on Newsnight back in 2005 regarding another matter. He is a decent chap so he may run with it.

Alexander Hanff

warescouse 24-06-2008 22:05

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by serial (Post 34583648)
Also I noticed that BT Broadband payed for a full front/back cover ad of todays Metro. Virgin payed for 1 full page, one third page and one corner ad. I reckon they are getting desperate.

If they don't know now they will never know.

Virgin Media, show a bit of backbone, denounce Phorm and your customers will come a flocking!

tarka 24-06-2008 22:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
the most successful advert any of the ISP's could use right now is...

"We don't and will NEVER intercept and analyse your browsing behaviour for ANY purpose"

That would attract a fair few "punters" I reckon. :)

Kursk 24-06-2008 22:41

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tarka (Post 34583657)
the most successful advert any of the ISP's could use right now is...

"We don't and will NEVER intercept and analyse your browsing behaviour for ANY purpose"

That would attract a fair few "punters" I reckon. :)

I used to think that but perhaps a more cunning plan is that VM will wait to see what happens with BT; if BT get away with running trials and subsequently get their dreamed of marketing revenue (off our backs), VM can jump on the bandwagon then.

If the fallguy BT plans go awry, VM can decide to stay away from Phorm and benefit from any likely migration claiming they never were really interested in the first place. It's BT who are taking the flak at the moment. VM are keeping their powder dry and gobs will stay firmly shut for now I reckon.

It's risky though. Upsetting customers on this scale isn't a good strategy.

tdadyslexia 24-06-2008 22:45

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo (Post 34583517)
If only the UK politicians had as much clout as the US:

Charter Freezes Web Eavesdropping Plan

If only. :(

JackSon 24-06-2008 23:02

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34583653)
I am currently in discussions with an old friend of mine who is a producer for BBC's Newsnight to see if they would be willing to cover the Phorm issue. I can't promise anything but I have known him several years as a result of him interviewing me on Newsnight back in 2005 regarding another matter. He is a decent chap so he may run with it.

Alexander Hanff

What a satisfying daydream of Jeremy Paxman giving Kent and Emma a verbal shoeing. Shant let myself get carried away though, promise ;)

vicz 24-06-2008 23:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo (Post 34583517)
If only the UK politicians had as much clout as the US:

Charter Freezes Web Eavesdropping Plan

Hmm sounds like they may be moving from their current script-injecting approach, which is like the original 121 pagesense/BT trial, to a more current phorm-like approach, which they will probably try to quietly implement 'transparently'.

serial 24-06-2008 23:44

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
You know the drill people :D

Don't link from here, copy the address to your browser so it doesn't look like a campaign from cableforum ;)

http://digg.com/tech_news/Charter_Fr...ng_Plan_Update

bluecar1 25-06-2008 00:51

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34583523)
Excellent find. Lets hope UK powers that be do the same! One for the iii members to quote also?

posted on both BT and someone beat me to phorm

peter

---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by serial (Post 34583741)
You know the drill people :D

Don't link from here, copy the address to your browser so it doesn't look like a campaign from cableforum ;)

http://digg.com/tech_news/Charter_Fr...ng_Plan_Update

dugg but unable to post comment below

******
Make sure you stop by the protest at BT's AGM on July 16th to try and stop Phorm from being deployed throughout the UK broadband market!

if we stop phorm it will make it more difficult for NebuAd to come to the UK, they have already setup offices in london and have a UK website that shows they are getting ready here

peter
***********

Florence 25-06-2008 01:51

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34583646)
Perhaps another angle for the BT shareholders 'shindig' is a couple of sympathy posters for the poor BT shareholders to read. :D

Lets not forget it is their shares and funds are being put at risk by the possible Cavalier attitude of their Directors and Executives by associating BT with illegal data spying and poorly chosen partners in crime.

Where do you want me to post and what do you want me to post already posted a few times on one forum but sadly BT shareholders dont seem to watch forums.

---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:43 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34583654)
If they don't know now they will never know.

Virgin Media, show a bit of backbone, denounce Phorm and your customers will come a flocking!

Well I know VM must be when they start billing people who have left their discount back for a few months... I was even told that the 2 for £20 is a discount price when I pointed out I had requested last year to go back to 2 meg and they said the 2meg and phone was £20 so I accepted that..

Now when i checked the bill they are demanding paying it seems they are requesting discount back that is what three different people said..

Nice company lovely leter heading to them requesting full explenation of the bill with breakdown on how they come to the bill or a deadlock letter...

All this because VM want to pimp my clicks and I refuse.. Nice one VM and phorm.

Mox3d 25-06-2008 07:10

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I swear I am this close to going mad with VM. Phorm, STM and the anti procurement of warez and pirating as a supposedly targetted policy (potentially of both systems imho).

What is un-clear to me (certainly beyond the boundary of this forum) is exactly how a user can remain `anonymous' in the true sense of the word when advertising is meant to be targetted at them. Also, STM in it's operation directly renders advertising claims redundant and arguably misleading. 20mb per second is not 20 mb per second when it is throttled down to whatever less. Regardless of how the situation came to be, if a person is sold on what is labelled as a 20mb package and is using it, be it for online gaming, watching streamed video's on youtube or whatever then if the company seeks to cap peak downloads and reduce service to any individual, then surely that is unfair and not in compliance with the law. Oh well. The law appears as ambiguous as the service industry it is supposed to cover.

The fleeting written glances toward the guise of providing fair service for all is complete rubbish when in fact it is glaringly obvious that the opposite is the case. Taken to it's verbatim, is it now unreasonable to be able to expect 20mb per second 24 hours a day every single day of the year for your money ?

I don't believe so.

Deko 25-06-2008 08:34

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
@Alex

I do hope that news(under NDA) you were talking about is pretty good for privacy and bad for Phorm.

When is it going to see light of day ?

warescouse 25-06-2008 08:49

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34583800)
Where do you want me to post and what do you want me to post already posted a few times on one forum but sadly BT shareholders dont seem to watch forums.
...cut

Sorry Florence, when I said 'posters' I should have said 'placards' :-)

Although, putting the message across via forums such as you suggested must be a worthwhile exercise. I am certain forums are there to be read by someone.

Don't let VM wear you down!

Interesting mailing on UKCrypto today (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pi...ne/084897.html). The gist of which references:

http://www.publications.parliament.u...htm#column_85W

hOrZa 25-06-2008 10:13

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34583654)
Virgin Media, show a bit of backbone, denounce Phorm and your customers will come a flocking!

I really hope they do but with new STM measures, including night testing plus lab testing of application throttling I feel there is no hope of rescue for Vigin

icsys 25-06-2008 10:28

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34583018)
Don't understand shares enough to know whether this is significant or not. Its the first financial news published for a while...

Transfer of Shares from Unrestricted Line (PHRX) to Reg S Line (PHRM)

"Dealings in the shares under the new ticker symbol are expected to commence on 30 June 2008."

121Media have had problems with this before.

With regard to the transfer of PHRX shares to PHRM REG S I wonder if Phorm had wind of the fact that their 'spy cousin' over the pond were to be frozen by Charter.

NTLVictim 25-06-2008 10:38

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34583905)
With regard to the transfer of PHRX shares to PHRM REG S I wonder if Phorm had wind of the fact that their 'spy cousin' over the pond were to be frozen by Charter.


I wonder how Nebuads' shares are doing?:D

vicz 25-06-2008 10:47

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NTLVictim (Post 34583916)
I wonder how Nebuads' shares are doing?:D

I seem to remember that NebuAd is privately funded by venture capital. I expect that they are a bit perturbed. But I think that Charter are not necessarily finished with NebuAd yet, just looking for a more stealthy non-IP based version IMHO.

icsys 25-06-2008 11:31

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
The news on NebuAd is running wild over the pond...
http://www.wikio.co.uk/news/Charter+Communications
And the news is proving useful to resurrect burried forum threads ;)

The flippant treatment of personal data for marketing purposes has prompted security firms to call for greater government action to protect data.http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22...hes-unreported Yeah... right!

jca111 25-06-2008 12:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JackSon (Post 34583699)
What a satisfying daydream of Jeremy Paxman giving Kent and Emma a verbal shoeing. Shant let myself get carried away though, promise ;)

I would prefer to see the Humph get one over Kent on Today!

bluecar1 25-06-2008 12:56

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
fluffykins has asked for a strawpoll over on iii, anyone with an account over there let your voice be heard

peter

Florence 25-06-2008 13:11

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34584025)
fluffykins has asked for a strawpoll over on iii, anyone with an account over there let your voice be heard

peter

That actually sounds funny...

I must be bored...... been googling and my what you can find in google would blow kents mind :)

ok was looking for somewhere that BT shareholders could communicate and share information and I find this.

Quote:

Are third party sites covered by this policy?

Third party Internet sites that you can link to from BT´s websites are not covered by our privacy policy, so we urge you to be careful when you enter any personal information online. BT accepts no responsibility or liability for these sites.

Other companies which advertise or offer their products or services on our website may also allocate cookies to your PC. The types of cookies they use and how they use the information generated by them will be governed by their own privacy policies and not ours.
the double edged sword they allow phorm your cookies with more deatails on than a recipe and then ask you to be careful what information you give very nice indeed...

Not sure if others have seen this
http://communities.bttradespace.com/...px?ctl=privacy


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