Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

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- Virgin Media Internet Service (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=12)

- - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

Sirius

19-02-2008 22:11

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34492271)

They have said they won't be passing your personal information. By that I assume you mean your Name, address and even your IP address?

What sites i visit is my personal information and not that of a third party paying VirginMedia for the ability to place adverts relating to that information.

That is the PERSONAL information i am talking about. I do on line banking, Pay by credit card online. I do not want ANY information what so ever being passed on by Virgin to some third party so Virgin make a swift buck.

Virgin have stepped over the bloody line this time big time.

what makes this stink even more is that the company they are going to use has the worst reputation any company has ever had for Spyware and Rootkit systems. This is the company that VirginMedia are going to pass on your PERSONAL information to on a daily bases for the time you are a customer of there's.

So the next time you log into your bank or you pay for that flight with your credit card online think that the information on that page will be passed to a third party who has a very very very bad rep in the industry and will do with it as they see fit as long as it makes them a fist full of money

Toto	19-02-2008 22:13

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

OK, this gets better, you have to love this little snippit from their AIM proposal.

Quote:

The PageSense Javascript application can be embedded into web pages, where it analyses their
content and communicates this information to the CompanyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s servers. In this way, a profile of an
individual consumerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s browsing habits can be compiled anonymously, which enables advertising
to be targeted where it will have the most impact. PageSense Javascript can be embedded by a
variety of partners, such as Internet Service Providers, serving pages to those connecting to the
internet through them, web publishers showing content to their user bases, or wireless networks.
The Directors expect to enter into the first such partnership arrangement in the first quarter of
2005.

All I can say is this, thank goodness for the NoScript plugin for Firefox. :)

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:12 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34492272)

Yes, I wasn't having a pop, I just wanted to clarify what you meant by personal information.

Mick	19-02-2008 22:19

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34492234)

I think you have grasped the stick firmly in both hands. Is it me, or does this look worse by the minute??

To clarify this on how I understand the system - They cannot just replace ads on a website that hasn't joined the OIX (Open Internet Exchange) They cannot start to take web advertising space off someone elses ad space, such a move is illegal and we shall consider legal proceedings if anyone attempts to steal advertising space on this website without the website owners consent.

Sirius

19-02-2008 22:20

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34492273)

OK, this gets better, you have to love this little snippit from their AIM proposal.

All I can say is this, thank goodness for the NoScript plugin for Firefox. :)

.

Nice one just installed it. Will also lockout IE on all the pc's in my house and allow firefox only from now on.

Will also block Virginmedia's website via my router.

Toto	19-02-2008 22:23

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34492281)

OK, so what you are saying then is that adverts served up on those company sites that have joined Phorm will be based on browsing experience.

So for example, if I went to the VM portal, and say clicked on a link to Churchill Insurance (OH YES), then I visited the BT portal, I could expect to have adverts for similar services pushed at me?

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34492283)

Nice one just installed it. Will also lockout IE on all the pc's in my house and allow firefox only from now on.

Will also block Virginmedia's website via my router.

Its a good little addon, and updates regularly, VERY regularly. :)

Sirius

19-02-2008 22:28

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34492281)

:LOL:

So i can take it this site will not be joining Virginmedia's new customer shafting system then :)

Mick	19-02-2008 22:29

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34492284)

Yes, this is how I understand the whole concept to work - If a site hasn't signed up to the OIX - Phorm won't exist on that website.

---------- Post added at 22:29 ---------- Previous post was at 22:28 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34492291)

:LOL:

So i can take it this site will not be joining Virginmedia's new customer shafting system then :)

Not a chance in hell - over my dead body.

MovedGoalPosts

19-02-2008 22:30

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Looking at the vm website they have a specific address for privacy issues:

Attached is a letter I've just sent them. Anyone is welcome to copy or amend it.

Quote:

Group Compliance
Virgin Media
160 Great Portland Street
London
W1W 5QA

Dear Sirs

Subscriber Privacy: Virgin Media & Phorm

I read with some disgust and alarm of the proposed tie up between Virgin Media & Phorm. This apparently, somehow, involves the disclosure by Virgin Media, to a third party (Phorm) of my web browsing habits, supposedly for marketing purposes.

I am not clear how exactly this works, and frankly am not interested in the technology. I am concerned about my privacy, which I expect you to reasonably protect.

I can find nothing in Virgin MediaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s stated privacy policies, terms and conditions or service, or indeed anywhere else that permits Virgin Media to disclose my browsing habits or indeed any personal information to third parties, other than as specifically required by law. Indeed, until recently, there were clauses in the Acceptable Use Policy which indicated that as my ISP you did not even monitor how I used my services. That seems to have been insidiously dropped. Perhaps you can explain how, in view of your policies Virgin Media can now disclose my information without my specific consent?

My interpretation of guidance from the Information Commissioners Office, and elsewhere is that this advertising system would be an electronic transmission and thus requires me to specifically opt in. I hereby confirm I do not opt in. Indeed it should not be necessary for me to even have to spell this out to Virgin Media.

I also note it might be the intention of Virgin Media and / or Phorm to operate an Ã¢â‚¬Å“opt outÃ¢â‚¬Â system which relies on cookies placed on a users computer. Such a practice is flawed. I am not obliged to retain on my computer any means of storage of information of my preferences, which may be used by others. Please see the Information CommissionerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Office: Guidance on the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003, Part 2, section 2.2. Thus reliance on a cookie to prevent transmission of my browsing habits to Phorm via Virgin Media, or simply to prevent me seeing their served up electronic ads breaches these rules. I confirm I do not give consent for such a cookie to be placed on my computer. Thus Virgin Media, if they persist with this ill-advised scheme, must find another method of securing my privacy.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not consent to my browsing habits, or indeed any other personal data being disclosed to third parties, or even other Virgin Group companies. This applies to any marketing or other purposes that are not directly associated with the supply of the services I have contracted to receive.

At best this smacks of sharp practice in order to prop up Virgin MediaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s poor balance sheet. At worst, this whole thing is probably illegal.

Yours faithfully

Joxer

19-02-2008 22:34

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

For those people wondering how to turn it off permenantly:

I delete my cookies regularly, and I want to keep Webwise switched off. How do I do that?

If you regularly delete your cookies and want to ensure that Webwise is permanently switched off, simply add [OIX.net] to the Blocked Cookies settings in your browser.

They use a cookie on you machine to store you identifying number so all you need to do is permenantly reject it.

Still a pita if you have more than one pc and more than one browser installed on each, especially since you need to remember to do it again after a reinstall and possibly an upgrade.

(Wanders off to look at possibility of blocking domain entirely on router firewall.)

Well my router has domain blocking so that was remarkably easy.

Toto	19-02-2008 22:50

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34492295)

Looking at the vm website they have a specific address for privacy issues:

Attached is a letter I've just sent them. Anyone is welcome to copy or amend it.

Good letter Rob....

Did a quick look and found the following clause in their Privacy policy.

Quote:

We may use aggregate information and statistics for the purposes of monitoring web site usage in order to help us develop the web site and our service and may provide such aggregate information to third parties for example content partners and advertisers. These statistics will not include information that can be used to identify any individual for example, '10,000 people clicked on an advertisement yesterday'

Not sure if it has any bearing on their potential tie up with Phorm.

Sirius

19-02-2008 22:50

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34492295)

Looking at the vm website they have a specific address for privacy issues:

Attached is a letter I've just sent them. Anyone is welcome to copy or amend it.

Rob your a star and i will be sending a copy as well. :tu:

lucevans

19-02-2008 22:51

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34492234)

Sure thing, if the moderators have no objections, I think I can find some links from the VM discussion forums....give me a few minutes.

OK, read this first (its a pdf document, scanned with NOD32, safe).

The Chairman and CEO listed in there may have been responsible for this

And this article will seal it. You will notice the company name in there is the one behind Phorm.

Apologies if I have broken forum rules, but I think it makes interesting reading if these articles are true.

EDIT: This article really puts some meat on the bones. :)

---------- Post added at 21:41 ---------- Previous post was at 21:31 ----------

I think you have grasped the stick firmly in both hands. Is it me, or does this look worse by the minute??

Thanks for the links Toto - very informative. From the last one, it sounds as if this Ertugrut chap ran into problems with the US authorities over the invasive nature of his company's "technology", so he's upped-sticks and moved the operation (allbeit under a new name) to the UK, where the government don't give a flying-one about individuals' privacy (in fact I'm surprised the government haven't contracted his services for their own nefarious purposes - maybe they have...?) The question now is "what can we do to stop this?"

Sirius

19-02-2008 22:51

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34492315)

Good letter Rob....

Did a quick look and found the following clause in their Privacy policy.

Not sure if it has any bearing on their potential tie up with Phorm.

Looks like Virgin are changing there terms and conditions without informing there customers to me.

lucevans

19-02-2008 22:54

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34492315)

Good letter Rob....

Did a quick look and found the following clause in their Privacy policy.

Not sure if it has any bearing on their potential tie up with Phorm.

Sending the information "10000 people clicked on this link today" to third-parties is NOT the same thing as sending the information "Client 02365794 clicked on this, this, this....and this today" The latter is, whilst still technically anonymous, specific to a single individual, and therefore by definition, not aggregated data.

Toto	19-02-2008 22:59

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34492320)

Looks like Virgin are changing there terms and conditions without informing there customers to me.

Actually, I think that has always been there, but in the absense of any document version number or date, I cannot be 100% sure.

---------- Post added at 22:59 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucevans (Post 34492324)

Yeh, getting tired now. There's probably something in the cookies section of their privacy "policy", but my eyes are itching.

Goodnight all.

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