Uber licence revoked
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Lots of people have effectively just been made redundant, a good mate of mine amongst them. I expect a lengthy and very costly court case to follow and maybe Mayor Khan is banking on this to get him off the hook for the decision. |
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Imagine this lot conducting our Brexit negotiations or 'managing' the economy after our divorce from the EU! All that was required was to grant Uber a licence and attach the necessary conditions to it. If they fail to abide by the conditions, they should be fined. But to simply ban the company from operating was excessive. |
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Massive decision. It always seemed as if Uber were edging close to this but I never would have thought it could happen. In two minds, On one hand I don't think banning them is helpful on the other I also don't think massive companies should throw their weight around to get past regulations.
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I bet fares are on the way up already...
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It will be a while before Uber actually stop operating, I think a compromise will be found personally. I mean Uber's prices would have been risen eventually - their business model is to operate at a loss to undercut the competition (who aren't backed by venture capital) until the competition is gone at which point they would have a stranglehold.
I do use Uber, find them useful and so cheap, but I do feel conflicted about the way they operate as a business. I mean there is a touch of arrogance from them about this. The conditions aren't unfair. Have your drivers pass CRB checks, be better and faster in reporting serious allegations in your vehicles and don't use the special software they have to avoid inspectors (they literally have this). Meet those conditions, applied to all other drivers that require a taxi licence, and they can operate. I should also say that the best thing about Uber is a sense of safety when you're in a foreign city. You know you won't get screwed. |
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If the laws are clear enough they can't get around any regulations and if the laws aren't clear enough that's where the courts come in. It may well turn out that TFL is breaking the rules - the appeal result will tell us which...
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I would say that the initial reading of the case suggest the rules are pretty clear and Uber didn't follow them. Unless there is something we're missing (i.e Uber did have their riders CRB checked etc) then it seems simple enough. I think this case will become a proxy for people's existing politics rather than the actual merits of this case. |
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My daughter called a uber cab just once, and never again. The driver spoke no English, got her to write down her destination despite it being on the booking app, drove on the wrong side of a deserted dual carriageway, and tried to drop her off half a mile from her destination gesticulating and muttering in his own language.
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I don't see what is different enough about their service that means they think they do not need criminal record checks for a licence for example. I think it's Uber trying to operate without having to worry about regulations in local markets which would impede their ability to expand aggressively. If they had to abide by London's rules then they have no argument not to do so in Paris, or Budapest, or Oslo. That would be a annoyance to a company who are trying to expand massively and quickly. It's a trend you see in a lot of technology start-ups out of Silicon Valley - a contempt for the laws and regulations of external markets. They want to hover above local authorities and just be 'a service'. I get the appeal because it's frustrating when we don't get something America has because of the burden of those companies entering a new market but at the same time asking for drivers to have these checks and for crimes to be reported is not unreasonable. I am not sure how the relation between a law and regulation works. However it seems TFL have a set of conditions applied to a taxi licence which includes the proper reporting of crimes, criminal record checks and whatever that business with the health certificate is. I find it entirely believable Uber have tried to get around that. Although the fact they have software to avoid government inspections makes me think they know what they're doing. If TFL have done something wrong here I suspect it's that they're lying about Uber not complying to appease black cabs. Not in imposing this conditions. |
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But for me it's that other countries do not have as good regulation on their drivers as London. A lot of places have cab drivers that might try and rip you off because there is a lack of standardised prices or lack of enforcement. I went to Mexico City and you're recommended to only get taxis known by the hotel and let them call it for you. They also tend to jot down the registration number when you get in. This is not uncommon outside of the US or Europe (and even then some cities are worse than others). Uber doesn't have these problems. They, the company, decide the price and know the drivers. You have a US-based company to follow up any issues you have and a map of the route they took you. |
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In this case the judges concerned will be the ones whose words matter and thereafter the rules will be clearer and obviously that needs to happen. |
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Even if they have no licence in London, they can get round it by using taxis licensed elsewhere.
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I'd rather use a genuine London cabbie who has been CRB'd,is insured, knows how to get around London and I can flag down safely knowing I won't get ripped off. Let's hope I continue to have that choice.
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I've used them a few times in Glasgow and the drivers are always super friendly and know where they are going. however a friend got ripped off once as the driver never stopped the meter and she ended up getting charged £300 as he was driving around for hours.
however the two local private hire cab companies I use most in glasgow now also have an app so you can call and track your taxi. So no real need for Uber here. |
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I don't use apps to order food. I ring the venue direct or I walk there.
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Some elderly folks do not have smart phones so Uber would not help them.
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I seriously think this will blow over with Uber making what really are the minor concessions required and winning back their licence. |
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Even if they can, as you say, if the other authorities take a similar stance this will be pointless. I've never used Uber myself, but I do like the idea of a fixed price to prevent drivers ripping people off and being able to downvote drivers who are rude, drive badly, smell, are late etc. |
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Looks like a resolution could be quite quick: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41384499
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khant forced to u-turn.
Love it. :D |
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Uber have on the other hand done so possibly as TFL have had discussion with a rival operator |
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Uber have apologised for any mistakes they have made. I don't recall Khan ever apologising for much* but there's still time... :D
* expenses claims aside |
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Uber can apologise but I guess it's either if they make concessions to TFL or win a legal challenge.
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Uber loses appeal in UK employment rights case.
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...rights-workers |
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Might not be directly related but hardly the PR Uber wanted whilst they battle to stay in London: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-people-s-data
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York joins Sheffield and London in revoking, or refusing to issue, a licence to Uber.
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Also remember that Uber runs at a loss backed by venture capital money in order to drive out competition at which point they are the only option. So it's not as if these drivers will have other alternatives. |
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Are Travel Agents aviation companies or do they merely link up the 2 parties? Same goes for loads of other companies that just link up 2 parties for a transaction.
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The only agency the drivers have is the choice to work for them or not. |
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You get an Uber car to drive you and drop you off. To me that makes them a cab company.
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I can also book my local private hire companies using an app now as well and track the car on a map. much the same as Uber. They are all cab or private hire taxi companies. Some drivers will actually work for both. |
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The only way for Uber to *not* be their drivers’ employer in the UK is for Parliament to change the law. |
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They could fold the company then no one is employed, then re-employ under new contracts that are more favourable to uber ,i would imagine there is a way around this without breaking the court ruling. |
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2) What "law" created them as employees in the first place. There wasn't one. No doubt the drivers will be whining about what is to come. They won't able to work anywhere else at the time. They will have to be available throughout those fixed hours, not just when they feel like it or are not doing other work. |
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This gives a good explanation https://www.londonreconnections.com/...-uber-not-app/ He’s updated it today (@garius) https://twitter.com/garius/status/13...006006274?s=21 Quote:
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Well, the law is above us all, I guess. I will just make the observation that once again, the consumer loses.
And so do those Uber ‘employees’ who valued the flexibility that their flexible hours contracts gave them. |
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Uber weren’t innovating they were simply reducing their tax liability at the expense of employees rights. There’s no winners, there other than Uber shareholders. As long as the consumer is a British taxpayer this is a resounding victory. I’m sure Uber can operate a flexitime system if they really want to. |
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If you can’t afford to give employees rights and pay British taxes under capitalism your business deserves to die rather than have you there as a parasite driving down revenues for genuinely sustainable businesses and working conditions across the board. |
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I don’t care what trade unions think. I prefer to listen to what those affected by their decisions think. I know that is unthinkable to guys like you, who are irreversibly politically indoctrinated. So your reply is already anticipated. And by the way, I disagree. Response unnecessary. Good night. |
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That shifts the tax burden onto local people in local businesses. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by “guys like me”. Taxpayers? It’s hardly indoctrination to think that those generating profits in the UK should pay tax in the UK. If a bakery opened in my town that’s fundamental “innovation” was to not pay tax while other bakeries closed down due to not being competitive on price that’s a net loss to local people and local businesses. Your economic ignorance, as ever, shines through Old Boy. Conned by Silicon Valley snake oil salesmen. |
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Serves Uber right. There is a massive Silicon Valley arrogance that laws and taxes apply to other people and not them. They use technologies to centralise as much of the profit as possible to only a few hands whilst destroying countless other companies in their wake. They undercut everyone because they are willing to operate at a loss to dominate the market, they avoid paying tax and they exploit people.
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It's not beyond Uber to have a flexible working system that complies with the new ruling. Other taxi firms do. The decision will mean more of a level playing field for small British taxi businesses. That can't be a bad thing and I speak as a pre-lockdown 1 Uber user. Uber brought innovation to the sector with their global app but that innovation can be disentangled from unfair competition and ripping contractors off. ---------- Post added at 10:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ---------- Quote:
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He’d much rather see the money used for better public services in the Netherlands than here, or worse siphoned offshore into a tax haven never to be seen again. |
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A case like this would almost certainly end up in the European courts tied to cases across Europe and have competing interests making representations. Now we get to tell them we're Great Britain and to naff off if they want to exploit workers, shift profits to other countries and put British businesses to the sword under the guise of competition. |
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Some interesting insight by former student and Deliveroo rider "Oscar" on the FT website
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I would prefer if Uber stopped exploiting their drivers instead. |
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The last tip i gave a Taxi driver was have a bath and buy some deodorant;) |
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Remember £5 only gets you a half of shandy in London.
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Yes let's completely erode workers rights, abolish the minimum wage and make taxes optional.
Everything will be cheaper, but will we be better off??? |
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Now they will increase more.
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Market forces
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Businesses adapt all the time. If British businesses get undercut by competition, they just respond and get better. That’s progress.
Of course businesses need to work within the law. It is unfortunate that the law is an ass. The law is continually being tested, novel ways found to get around unintended consequences, etc. As for workers’ rights, the right to seek the flexibility that many gig workers find useful is being compromised. Both Uber and their drivers considered the drivers to be self employed. There was no need for the courts to interfere and amend the contracts that had been drawn up with joint agreement. As I said, this is not good news for consumers either, who will now have to pay more for the same service. This will lead to fewer people using the service, which will mean less work for the newly designated ‘employees’. Lose/lose. |
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Businesses adapt all the time you say. Well this time Uber can adapt to following employment law. And paying taxes in Britain just like everyone else. |
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