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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

OF1975 21-03-2008 13:23

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3x2 (Post 34511218)
..... I would love to be a fly on the wall at their sales pitch especially as they get to the part titled "5 years down the line". It is clear from the patent application that they intend to offer much more than random numbers and categorized keywords.

Thats the nub of the issue. As bad as the situation is now with what they are plannning just imagine how much worse it could get 5 years down the line if we acquiesce to their plans now. As important as it is for us to stop Phorm here in the UK, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the war wont truly be won until they run into trouble in the US. The US will be their biggest market with the biggest earning potential for the company. If we can land a killer blow here and then follow it up with a killer blow in the US then the company will be done for and hopefully they will go bankrupt.

AlexanderHanff 21-03-2008 13:36

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Bloody Easter! No stock market today to keep me smiling at the degradation of the Phorm share capital. Sucks!

Alexander Hanff

mertle 21-03-2008 13:47

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OF1975 (Post 34511224)
Thats the nub of the issue. As bad as the situation is now with what they are plannning just imagine how much worse it could get 5 years down the line if we acquiesce to their plans now. As important as it is for us to stop Phorm here in the UK, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the war wont truly be won until they run into trouble in the US. The US will be their biggest market with the biggest earning potential for the company. If we can land a killer blow here and then follow it up with a killer blow in the US then the company will be done for and hopefully they will go bankrupt.

We also have to guard if one gets away with it you can bet more will crawl out the woodwork with just as bad ideas.

If phorm gets such a noise bleed and get kicking into bankruptcy it would deter others from trying it. Would even be stark reminder of those like google that people will not accept irresponsible money making idea's.

We trust those who are in the internet industry to be responsible with our browsing we dont expect them to abuse there position.

People just dont like being force fed like an infant. We have a brain and can do our own research for latest TV, car. We dont need target adverts tell us.

BrideXIII 21-03-2008 13:49

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OF1975 (Post 34511224)
Thats the nub of the issue. As bad as the situation is now with what they are plannning just imagine how much worse it could get 5 years down the line if we acquiesce to their plans now. As important as it is for us to stop Phorm here in the UK, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the war wont truly be won until they run into trouble in the US. The US will be their biggest market with the biggest earning potential for the company. If we can land a killer blow here and then follow it up with a killer blow in the US then the company will be done for and hopefully they will go bankrupt.


'won't look', is not the same as 'can't see', I don't believe anyone these days is not aware that any company out to make money will not do this in the future if we give them a foot in the door now, nobody, but nobody is that naive, thats why the tech issues although important, are not as imortant as stopping this in its tracks.
once a freedom is gone, you can't get it back. once a precedent is set, its all over.
and however lucrative adverts might be, I am sure that this is not what this is really all about, eventually, selling data to other companies whom it might interest is the real long term objective.

kt88man 21-03-2008 13:50

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34511229)
Bloody Easter! No stock market today to keep me smiling at the degradation of the Phorm share capital. Sucks!

Console yourself with the fact that they are one place off the bottom of the months biggest downward movers...

OF1975 21-03-2008 13:54

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34511229)
Bloody Easter! No stock market today to keep me smiling at the degradation of the Phorm share capital. Sucks!

Alexander Hanff

Tell me about it. I miss clicking on the link every few hours and watching the share price tank. On a positive note though at least it gives time for more publicity, more research and more time for everyone to write to MPs, MEPs, Privacy organisations etc.

I am currently drafting a letter I intend to send to my MP and all the MEPs for my area. After that I intend to follow up my email to Liberty with a written letter. Still no response from them yet but hopefully a written letter will be more successful.

bigbadcol 21-03-2008 14:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Help for the dislexic please.

Slightly off topic, but my wife is going to kill me..

I told her I was only searching the web for information on Phorm, but for some reason all these naked people, doing strange things to each other were poping up on the screen.

Help!!! ;)

manxminx 21-03-2008 14:38

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

What has shocked me the most is the total news blackout that seems to be happening at Virgin Media
Although I'd love to see VM say something in reply to their customers queries and complaints re Phorm, I can understand them keeping quiet for now.

I bet BT now wishes they'd kept quiet - they have contradicted themselves, admitted they lied, and are seen to be headless chickens running around not knowing what to do or how to dig themselves out of the mess they've got themselves into.

VM? They've avoided all this by keeping mum. You can bet they're reading everything that's being said about Phorm, on here and elsewhere.

I'm sure that once we all know for sure if Phorm is legal or not (I know what we all think, but that's not the same), or what the outcome is of the ICO and other official reports (including don't forget the final report from 80/20 Thinking), as well as taking into account the obvious 'do not want' stance from their customers and joe public, then VM will make up their mind and tell us what's going to happening.

To me, VM's silence is reassuring, and If I were the MD, I'd similarly instruct all staff to keep it zipped for now.

BrideXIII 21-03-2008 14:43

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by manxminx (Post 34511264)
Although I'd love to see VM say something in reply to their customers queries and complaints re Phorm, I can understand them keeping quiet for now.

I bet BT now wishes they'd kept quiet - they have contradicted themselves, admitted they lied, and are seen to be headless chickens running around not knowing what to do or how to dig themselves out of the mess they've got themselves into.

VM? They've avoided all this by keeping mum. You can bet they're reading everything that's being said about Phorm, on here and elsewhere.

I'm sure that once we all know for sure if Phorm is legal or not (I know what we all think, but that's not the same), or what the outcome is of the ICO and other official reports (including don't forget the final report from 80/20 Thinking), then VM will make up their mind and tell us what's going to happening.

To me, VM's silence is reassuring, and If I were the MD, I'd similarly instruct all staff to keep it zipped for now.

I agree, in part.
Although its frustrating that they have not issued an up to date statement, it is clear that they are more than aware of what is going on, they definately don't have their head in the sand over this, they are just avoiding making the same errors as BT, whilst avoiding making a definitve statement like CW, that at least shows some business sense.
As long as they realise that keeping quiet, is not going to make us go away, then all well and good......for now.

Ravenheart 21-03-2008 15:24

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I've not seen this posted previously, but V1.4 of the Dephormation add On for Firefox is out.

http://www.dephormation.org.uk/

My thanks go to the authors and those involved with the project :)

OF1975 21-03-2008 15:24

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Missing Persons Notice:

Authorities are becoming increasingly alarmed by the disappearance of the PhormUKPRTeam. Authorities believe that they may have suffered a deeply traumatic psychological experience while trying to spin their way out of a firestorm of controversy regarding their clients spyware technology.

Have you seen PhormUKPRTeam? If so please telephone the PR Anonymous hotline with details of when and where you last saw them.

3x2 21-03-2008 15:27

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
It's a simple move for Phorm to grab your IP as your machine pulls adverts from their servers matching token to IP. ISP's say this won't happen and we won't even mention ISP's matching IP to actual customer records for Phorm. I know this is just fantasy at the moment but the trouble ISP's have now, in addition to Phorm, is that I simply no longer trust them.

When the story first broke I was outraged not just about Phorm's plans but that my ISP has been complicit from the beginning. When exactly were they going to tell us the full details? Ever? It's clear that the PR machine hadn't even been fueled and the last thing they wanted was this story to get out without first dressing it in the warm fuzzy glow of "Webwise - the safer Internet experience"

I might, earlier, have accepted Phorm with appropriate safeguards for those who opt out but not anymore. I don't trust Phorm and I also don't trust my ISP anymore. The moment VM introduce Phorm in any way I'm off. All Virgin services will go not just BB.
I may go anyway, I feel like I have been stabbed in the back by some happy smiling old lady I just helped across the road. I hope it's all worth it for them.

Ravenheart 21-03-2008 15:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OF1975 (Post 34511287)
Missing Persons Notice:

Authorities are becoming increasingly alarmed by the disappearance of the PhormUKPRTeam. Authorities believe that they may have suffered a deeply traumatic psychological experience while trying to spin their way out of a firestorm of controversy regarding their clients spyware technology.

Have you seen PhormUKPRTeam? If so please telephone the PR Anonymous hotline with details of when and where you last saw them.

I think I've found them, I've just logged in to my Blog to make an entry, and I found this waiting for moderation.

Quote:

Hi
I work on behalf of Phorm here in the UK. We are really happy that the debate arond online privacy has really picked up of late, but there are a few issues that need to be addressed here.
Firstly, Webwise is not malware. Users are continually given the choice to opt out and the very first thing you will see when you go online after the technology has been deployed is a full-page notice and at that point you can decide to opt out. You will see banner ads saying that Webwise is on. So if you don’t want it, you will be able to click on these ads and switch them off.

Secondly it’s not illegal - we don’t agree with FIPR. They offer one view on a piece of the law that is untested. All of the legal advice we’ve taken and conversations we’ve had with various experts on DPA and RIPA support our position that our system complies with all the appropriate laws.

Lastly, Sir Tim Berners Lee is not familiar with the Phorm system, so he did not know that his example is impossible with our system (in the BBC story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7299875.stm). There is no match to ‘sensitive’ areas such as medical conditions, no record of what sites users have visited, and no data of any kind is passed by the system to a third party (in his example to insurers).

We look forward to speaking to Tim Berners Lee to explain how our technology is a ground breaking advance in delivering targeted ads while protecting privacy online and consumer choice, as we have with other experts.

You can ask questions about the system and get loads more information by visiting http://blog.webwise.com or http://www.webwise.com or http://www.phorm.com
It's nice to know they're scouring everywhere to try and put their spin. Including my crappy blog :)

mark777 21-03-2008 15:38

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OF1975 (Post 34511287)
Missing Persons Notice:

.

Unfortunately the authorities can only search for missing individuals.

Team Phorm consists of 26 lawyers, spin doctors and probably the odd estate agent thrown in as well.

There were 25, but another joined a couple of days ago. At least I think that's when the vote at the top of this page changed.

OF1975 21-03-2008 15:40

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
In some ways is sad to see the PR still peddling the same nonsense but in another way at least it means we are keeping them busy. They are of course right that the situation vis-a-vis RIPA is untested in law yet. What makes me smile widely is that the issue may not remain untested for long. The thought of those involved in the BT tests last year reporting them to the police makes me go all warm and fuzzy inside.


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