Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok lets look at this from another angle for you then Mart. You give information to hospitals. Do they provide you a useful service? You provide infromation to councils. Do you get a useful service in return? Same with banks? Useful service, yes or no?

Now to Phorm and webwise. Anti-phishing that already exists in IE7, Firefox, various anti-virus/anti-spyware applications. Useful to you, yes or no? Then "more relevant adverts", useful to you yes or no?

Personally I see absolutely no value to me as an end-user of Phorms WebDumb and yet I see a huge cost in terms of my privacy rights and right not to have my communications intercepted without a warrant or due legal process.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The point is YOU decide whether you want to be a guinea-pig or not, the way the phorm system works, as we understand it noone will have a choice whether to have their internet traffic intercepted or not.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think you underestimate the intelligence of people who have looked at this thing (in disbelief) and have been appalled by what they see. I normally don't react to Internet privacy stories. Neither does my wife. Yet when we see (for example) BT's arrogance and utter contempt for the opinion of their customer base, and the sheer pervasiveness of the system and the slimeballs they're happy to work with, then we're both hopping up and down in front of the TV seething and wondering why business ethics have gone right out of the window.

I don't believe this is your average internet privacy story, and that's why you've seen such a strong reaction from the public and press. It's breathtaking in its scope.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi PR Team,

Be confused no longer! Go and have a quick look in a dictionary, and look up the words "informed", "consent", and "opt-in" (if "opt-in" counts as one word). I know Kent Ertufhdisijf doesn't understand them as he's stated before that he doesn't see what the big deal is, but believe me the consent issue is part of what's getting people really wound up about the spyware your bosses are peddling.

Not that many people here would be rushing to sign up for mi-info or any other suchlike service, but as you can see from the survey and the sheer level of vitriol being spat at Phorm across the web, if people weren't being railroaded into the Phorm system then very few people would be signing up for it either.

Quite apart from the legal issues, people object to the extremely high-handed way they have been treated over this. Working for a PR company, I'm sure (and I hope for your sakes if you intend to carry on doing PR ;)) you can understand how miserably Phorm and the ISPs have handled it all. Have a look at labougies post here. Virgin are, in effect, saying that they have already got all the consent they need and there's nothing the customer can do about it, even though the customer was not aware of any intention to implement Phorm's system when they signed the contract. The customer feels powerless, duped and angry, and not without good reason.

Most people feel, quite rightly in my opinion, that the implementation of the Phorm system by their ISP involves a massive change in the relationship between the ISP and the customer, and legitimate concerns can and should not be brushed aside using Terms and Conditions which did not relate to Phorm's "service" when the customer signed up. Leaving aside whether VM's statement would stand up in court or not, surely you can see what a terrible piece of customer service that is from a PR point of view?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

WGA was done very publicly and with detailed explanation of the reasons, what it does how it works and how for any legitimatly licenced person there will be no effect. Microsoft needed to do something when their software is so widespread and easy to copy.
Compare to how Sony installed rootkit software on peoples PCs when they played certain CDs to achieve the same objective of preventing copyright theft.
Here we have another ex-rootkit company trying to install software at our ISPs.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hia! Long time no hear from. Great to see you back and posting, don't leave it so long next time eh?

Seeing as it was me that posted the link to http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4786614&EDATE= I suppose I'd better answer your post.

Let me say first of all that I would never sign up to any advertisement scheme.

However, from reading the info at that link, I feel this scheme trumps your in a few ways.

Firstly, it is opt-in only.
Secondly, no-one hijacks your browsing to ask you if you want to opt out.
Thirdly, no-one hijacks your browsing, full stop. No interception, no scanning of webpages, no mirroring, no on the fly profiling.
Fourthly, as for the information profiled - whoever signs up to this scheme enters their own data into the profiler. They choose what to enter, and what not to enter. Which means . .
Fifthly, the user has complete control of what their advertising profile contains
Sixthly, to view the targeted adverts, they have to browse to a certain page, which means . . .
Seventhly, other users of the computer would not see the targeted ads during their browsing sessions (unless they knew exactly what page to go to).
Eighthly, Clicking on the targeted ads earns points which can be exchanged for shopping vouchers. What does Phorm give me in return for using their system? Nothing!

So, on the basis of what I have read so far about Mi Info, if I had to choose which technology to sign up to, Yours or Mi Info, I would choose Mi Info every time because 1. it gives ME control and 2. does not intercept, mirror, scan or otherwise profile my personal browsing.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Er, what s/he said.

:clap:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My weekend will be spent informing as many people as i can about you spyware system. Hope you get rained on .

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You underestimate me if you think I underestimate the intelligence of people who have looked into this thing. I don't. However, surely it doesn't hurt to look at the other side of the wall does it? Doing this and then offering even a suggestion of going against popular opinion on a forum often isn't easy you know :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Richard Clayton (FIPR) has just released his write up of Webwise/Phorm:

http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2...ebwise-system/

Detailed technical:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/080404phorm.pdf

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've looked at what Phorm in its various guises has said, how it has answered questions (or not as the case may be) and how it has conducted itself.

My choice is not to have any of my information going anywhere near them. "Trust us, we've changed" doesn't work with me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Did you read the interview in its entirety (see post 2184)? I don't think it will affect your feelings on the issue but in the interest of at least hearing the other side out maybe?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

kt88man thanks for that link

That invitation has backfired on Phorm now hasn't it :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excellent, many thanks for those links. Been waiting for these. Now to go read what has been written . . .

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap::clap:

That will do - another nail goes in.