Post-Brexit Thread
 

We could simply withdraw by repealing the 1972 European Communities Act and negotiate with the separate nations ,or we could use Article 50 and let the EU dictate the timetable .Since there is no precedent it is unclear how Article 50 will actually work and with Cameron resigning we may end up with a leader that doesn't favour using Article 50 to leave the EU

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

I think we'll end up with a Norway style deal or won't invoke it

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

or rebadge EU as the Commonwealth of Europe, suggests it has reformed and join that instead

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

its a two year process [i believe] so i see no point in delaying invoking article 50 why put off until tomorrow what you can do today ,i think a delay gives the opportunity for undemocratic and unethical practices to be invoked ,cameron said[promised] he would do it he should do it or go now.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

It's not a question of putting anything off ,it's whether we should use Article 50 to exit the EU .Only the EU say we have to use it ,it is for their benefit not ours ,we could in theory simply change our own laws and then begin negotiations with other countries

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

I think constructively we should use article 50 it means negotiations are for both sides I don't think now is the time to just withdraw this vote has shocked everyone article 50 gives everyone and everything time to calm down and regain some perspective. I do think article 50 should be implemented within two weeks maximum delaying it serves no purpose and if we can't resolve the various issues within two years more time is unlikely to deliver results.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

why antagonise the EU there is a mechanism in place to facilitate our exit we should use it ,we should part on good terms .

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

If we just leave would we not have trade with all other countries as per the WTO rules and then we would have to negotiate with each individual country while trading under those rules.

J

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

The mechanism is skewed in their favour and is not designed for use as a bargaining tool .The whole idea of having the referendum is to take back control so it's rather ironic that to take back control we give up all the control to the other 27 nations ,and if we didn't want to antagonise the EU we shouldn't have held a referendum that effectively says their rules and regulations are complete bollocks and we don't want them

---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

I believe that is the case .We would have to trade like most of the world does

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

sorry my mistake- i thought you started a debate Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

We should - but not until the Govt leadership is concluded.

Why?

we'll lose 3 or so months to no effect as we're now effectively leaderless. It won't hurt to wait a bit, not everything in life needs to be a knee jerk snap reaction.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

To be fair, it's not the orders of the EU, it's Article 50 of a treaty we are signatories to.

We will use the exit mechanism, because that's what it's there for. It's just a matter of when, and I think waiting until we have a new PM is sensible.

There is no rush. We need to get this right.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

That's exactly what's required. We may live in an age when folks get upset when their phone takes more than a nanosecond to send a message around the globe but this is a time for reflection, to let the dust settle, lets the emotions calm down and then proceed in an orderly fashion.

That's what I expect from leaders in the UK and the EU and if they have any sense that's what will happen.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Yes i did ,that doesn't mean i have to agree with you .The problem with Article 50 is that once it is started it cannot be stopped regardless of whether we approve of negotiations or not .As Chris just said first we need a new PM and than their first decision is how to exit the EU that best serves the UK not the remaining 27 nations.If that means using Article 50 then so be it, but there are other alternatives

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Depends what they are planning. I've seen some people suggesting that this attempt to leave the EU is an attempt to get better terms for rejoining the EU. This is a possibility if they don't invoke Article 50. If they invoke Article 50, if my understanding is correct, there will be no option to rejoin the EU.

Do I think the government will rejoin the EU under any circumstances? I don't know. Most of Parliament appear to want us to have stayed in the EU, so maybe they will. The MPs that wanted to leave won't, I don't think they will, although several of them have shown they are perfectly willing to change allegiances (Bo-Jo being the major one).

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

It may be that us leaving starts a domino effect and that in turn forces the EU into re winding to something more akin to the old EEC which we would probably want to be part of and as you say invoking Article 50 would preclude that

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

i cant imagine wanting to rejoin its broken every one knows its broken i think other country's will follow our lead to the point where the whole thing collapses

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Why would we want a Norway deal?

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Access to the single market.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

If the EU wants access to our market, then they will let us have access to theirs. Do you really think Merkel wants to tell VW they just lost their second biggest market for cars worth €billions a year?

Or BMW they can't sell in the UK? Or Adidas? Etc etc? It's a 2 way street! Leaders of German industry have made it very clear they want the UK to keep its free trade agreements. An as Germany is a democracy then all will be fine

I mean if we can't buy VW's or BMW's then sales of none EU made cars will rise. We will still buy cars, just not german cars! That's a lot of trade for Germany to say goodbye to.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Yes we get access to each others markets but with freedom of movement. By the way the EU is much bigger than us in terms of GDP and addressable market so the advantage is theirs.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Norway have accept free movement of people, agree to the Schengen Zone, and pay a comparable amount per head of population into the EU coffers.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35...-post2354.html

Norway is not the model we want or we might as well of stayed in the EU.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

What's with this entrenched idea that we must have freedom of movement to access the single market .Australia ,japan and the US all benefit from the single market and do not have to have to allow all EU citizens into their countries.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Yes. There will be downsides.

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:47 ----------

They don't have a single market. :confused:

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

A single market is not the same as a free trade agreement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36083664

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Yes but Germany get hurt if we stop buying German goods, Germany won't like that. So you understand, as whole the EU thinks it's all powerful but as each member state realises what it's going to lose if it doesn't trade with the U.K. Then then EC will be under pressure from members who are about to lose BILLIONS in UK trade.

An we are a rich country, you won't replace customers as wealthy as us very easily! Have some pride and belief in your amazing country!!! I believe the ball really is in our court.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

This is what terrifies me. No one has any plan at all.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Nobody is going to stop trading with nobody.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

It's the nature of trade that is the issue. I.E Tariffs on services? We have a problem.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

They have access to it as do many other countries in the same way as we would want it and none of them have to have freedom of movement .We do not have to be a member of the single market to benefit from it

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

We can add tariffs on their services, I'm not sure you understand just how massive the UK economy is. Somehow someone has eroded any faith or belief you have in your country. Let me tell you on behalf of 17plus million leave voters- you're going to be ok, we won't let you down, we won't leave you behind, we love you and we love Britain. It's going to be awkward and uncomfortable for a little while. Stick together work hard and we will be ok!

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

No they don't. They have a Trade Agreement not access to the single market.

There's a difference, look it up.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm certain Aldi and Lidl will want to close all their UK stores immediately. All that UK growth and profit they're enjoying in this market won't be missed at all...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

:D:D:D:D Don't worry, if they do Tesco/ASDA/Sainsburys/Morrisons/Home Bargains etc will be happy to sell us their goods instead. As a market to sell to the UK is unmatched and irreplaceable.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If Scotland gets another referendum I think they'll win it. They're getting a lot of support from previous No voters and one of the most Unionist papers in Scotland the last time around, The Daily Record, is backing another one this time.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I hope you do get your referendum, and millions and millions of Brexit Leave voters will congratulate whatever you decide. None of this nasty sour grapes you and your failed remainers have been dishing out!

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

At least UKIP are essentially a dead party with Farage leading the way. Top bloke he is, getting caught telling fibs and being made to look like a tool. Who am I kidding, its hardly the first time he's told lies. Just hoping that one was the final nail. Absolute donkey of a bloke. Scares me anyone could actually think voting for a ****** like that would bring change.

'I never said that' - Nigel Farage "Since the beginning of time"
'Someone tried to assassinate me' 'But I was caught lying again..'

They should tag this next to his name every time he's on TV.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Yes they do

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ss-to-the-sin/

We do not need to be a member of the single market to have access ,look it up

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Can someone please explain this.

I was told today, that the country that is most worried is Poland, and the polish people that are here already.

Now that we have voted to get out of Europe. Surely that IF Polish residents are here. It wont effect them ?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

When you have some time do check the labels on various goods from those outlets.

See where things like ketchup and lemon juice in Asda, or Smash are made and processed. Maybe have a look at how much of the beef is Irish. We are connected to the EU in far more ways than the obvious. A ton of our goods go through the EU at some point in the supply chain.

As far as unmatched and irreplaceable are going you are joking, right? I would speculate the USA and China are somewhat larger markets, neither has a free trade deal with the EU or access to the common market.

The German car manufacturers will lobby Brussels hard, no question. They will also hit a lot of resistance. Bending the rules to accommodate us creates an existential issue for the EU. We don't match up as far as Germany's exporters go to the rest of the EU combined. We aren't irreplaceable, we aren't unmatched and we aren't greater than the rest of the EU combined.

If we go into negotiations with that frankly incredibly arrogant attitude we will leave with nothing. The EU would definitely love to have us trade freely with them, but not at any price.

---------- Post added at 22:50 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

It won't be held until the SNP are quite sure they can win it, and there's not much that we can offer them to convince them to stay. Brexit has shown that dour economic arguments don't seem to carry much weight, and of course we aren't offering the status quo.

From their point of view both options carry risk. We at least previously had stability to offer them, and don't now.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Imagine if England won Euro 2016 now. You'd have to wonder what else is coming this year.

Is there any substance behind a company like Nissan closing its doors and putting ten thousand out of work when the UK does leave the EU and if any deals are just simply not good enough. Unsure of non EU exports.

Nissan constantly exports via Tyne dock around Europe I expect

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

I don't think you understand how massively positive our balance of payments on services is with the EU.

You know, that same argument that keeps being used to claim the EU will be falling over themselves to have a free trade agreement over goods.

A large part of our services exported to the EU are financial ones. Even without tariffs there are barriers.

Passporting is a very, very big deal. We have extremely privileged access to the Eurozone's financial services markets.

---------- Post added at 22:58 ---------- Previous post was at 22:57 ----------

Yes. Why would you maintain manufacturing in a country that's pretty expensive to manufacture in anyway, along with having the products it produces be more expensive due to import tariffs when you can simply move the production to Eastern Europe, pay less to manufacture and pay no import tariffs?

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

When put like that it sounds like absolute madness that Sunderland got a landslide Leave vote. From this perspective I don't really understand a great lot but it appears they've potentially voted themselves out of jobs in a game of chance or hope etc. All I see is the word uncertainty being thrown all over. If it comes off and we do better they can celebrate but if it goes tits up then 'ah tough luck'

I honestly don't think people in said areas got enough information on the potential risks. I mean without some googling I would've been left with no information at all. I got that Cameron leaflet and that's about it. That only further adds to the argument that Remain made an arse of things.

Got posts flying around about some kid that voted leave because lulz.. Didn't expect it to happen. Absolute bell end.

I see a lot of 'we're going to negotiate this and that' but no guarantee that any of it will be any better if not worse than we already had.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's not even been a day since the vote and remainers are calling for change and this and that while still slinging doom and gloom, are they really that dense to not understand that it was exactly that superior scaremongering attitude that cost them the vote. Nearly everyone I have spoken too including a few that voted remain have all criticised the remain campaign and even after polls showed it wasn't working they stuck with it and increased the scare mongering.

The UK is not unique or irreplaceable to the EU but pretending we're on the same level as Norway is ridiculous. We have long standing trade with many countries and company's within those countries and they weren't trading with us because we were a member of the EU they were trading because we could offer what they needed at the right price that hasn't changed and that's why business all over the EU is telling the politicians they want free trade to continue between the UK and the EU.

What happens next is going to take time and needs calm constructive people to negotiate it not knee jerk reactionaries. Remain need to accept the result and get behind the UK in making sure we get the best deal we can. As for the ludicrous assertion that it was "selfish over 50's" that swung this I am not over 50 nor is my wife and after looking into it I decided to vote leave not for me but for my kids and their future. Being selfish I'd have voted remain as for my personal circumstances remain was the safe bet but looking at the future and the likely economic troubles the EU will face I wasn't prepared to sign my kids up for that.

The UK is a great country with a great people and it not only has a future outside the EU but it has a good future being more involved in the whole world and a more secure future that will be a benefit. It's time for some people to stop talking this country down and continuing a failed campaign and accept the path that's been chosen.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I am not Scottish nor do I live in Scotland. It isn't 'my' referendum. Also I have hardly been nasty.

They have access to it in terms of being able to trade with it but not being in it. Being inside is different. It means everyone can operate within a common system, regulatory framework, employment market and so on.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I am behind the UK getting the best deal we can - it's EFTA-EEA membership. Access to the single market, free movement, but not the biggest bugbear for me and some others, political union.

As I think I wrote before that's probably as far as we should've gone all along. Our joining the EU fully was a mistake, acknowledged by both UK and EU.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Germany fears France, Austria, Finland, the Netherlands and Hungary may follow the UK and leave the EU, a government paper says.

The finance ministry strategy paper expresses concern that the UK's historic vote may trigger a Brexit domino effect across Europe, according to the German newspaper Die Welt.

It recommends that the EU enters into negotiations aimed at making the UK an "associated partner country" for the remaining 27 nations.

As it stands, the UK's exit may cause Germany's contribution to the EU's budget to rise by 3bn euros (£2.44bn) a year, the paper adds.


And there was me thinking if we left there was no deals at all from the EU leave was leave lol

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Saw this posted in an Anti-EU FB group... Sums up my mood for the day entirely...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yep there is far more optimism out there then some would like to admit too many people just cannot accept remain lost and won't be happy with anything less then then the reality of the doom and gloom predicted.

Well, people from both sides have been suggesting they, along with all other EU nationals (Ireland included) by the Vienna convention

However, again this may not be accurate https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/22/will-europeans-be-free-to-stay-in-the-uk-after-brexit

From a personal point of view, my girlfriend is Austrian, has worked everyday here for 6 years, never used NHS and paid in and adapted to British life, hell she even has a season ticket for cricket with me.

And suddenly she feels rather unwelcome and to be honest I can't give her a good answer as to guarantee she is safe to remain here.

If suddenly she is made to go I would of course follow her to Austria but the flip side is as soon to be non-eu my once freedom of movement and right to work (and even travel to see her family) may not be allowed in Austria and why should they if we do the same to them

Thanks UK, thanks a bunch

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

:tu: Very good article that.

Another good point I read yesterday mentioned the fact that Remain voters were saying Leave supporters won it with a campaign of fear of what life would be like if we stay in the EU and as such the result was unfair. OK that's a pretty odd notion of 'unfair' as all political elections/referendums are fuelled by lies and BS however look at all the subsequent predictions of doom and gloom the Remainers have come out with over the past 24 hours....but of course, that's "different".

---------- Post added at 07:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------

I was viewing this angle with interest and was worried the result may fuel some racist and xenophobic attitudes and so far I'm glad to see that doesn't appear to be the case. On Radio 5 yesterday there were reports that due to so many EU nationals living, working and settled in the UK (and of course vice versa) it would be a logistic and administrative nightmare to simply withdraw their rights to be wherever they are so it appears some provisions and compromises will be offered.

Obviously for yourself that's hardly the certainty you need but I can't see a blanket "get out and go home" rule being applied.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

There won't be a blanket get out and go home rule applied, because we the people of Britian won't allow it. This is still the amazingly tolerant vibrant country it always was.

We will just be able to have control over our own laws now,

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Absolutely, and may that never ever change.

I put the following on Facebook earlier in response to so many people posting things saying we don't have the right to be called Great anymore..

I don't see why this can't be an opportunity to show how Great we can be. Being all negative and defeatist is what removing the Great would be and yes the doom and gloom of Friday would be just that but if we're going to do this why not show the world how resilient we can be? Let's use this to fire up a patriotic British resurgence. I'm all for that as long as it's done *properly* and by that I mean celebrating GB and NOT hating or being hostile to anything foreign. Let's be proud of our country but the kind of pride that's colour blind and respects all other nations. Although I do respect the country I'm not a fan of Americanisms but the love they (generally) have for all things American is the sort of national pride we ought to have for Great Britain.

Again I only support an inclusive British pride, no racism or xenophobia should ever be cultivated or tolerated. Britain First, NF, BNP, EDL etc can all go to hell. We don't want the sort of GB they promote.

Let's have a truly great Great Britain rising from this!

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Paying tariffs to trade with the EU, is not being in the single market

That's the problem, both side have been saying they won't but no one is certain and as you can appreciate with recent events I can't rely on "goodwill" because frankly no one know for certain

Whilst I have to respect the democratic process I am bloody furious

So far I had people I vaguely know use the classic "if you don't like it why don't you just leave with them"
Well my my 5 year goal was go and live I Austria, and with their vote yesterday they just gone and made that harder

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No absolutely, you and many others in your situation have every right to be angry at this, even more so as I very much doubt a concrete plan will be announced any time soon.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But Leave have won. We're now discussing what we should actually do. Which is why the discussion is about what that would involve. Yes it's a 'great' country but we can't keep discussing that isn't of the practicalities of what we do.

This morning there is more talk of a Norway deal this morning.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

Next week I believe there is a summit to discuss the timetable for the divorce from the EU. Article 50 should not be invoked until we find out about that first.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Any reason for Austria? I was in Vienna a few months ago, seems a nice city to live in.

You could go before we actually leave? The one thing I am pretty sure of is that EU citizens already here and British people in the EU would be able to stay. :)

---------- Post added at 08:40 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

Article 50 should be stalled at least until we have a new PM.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Exactly ,we do not want to be in it ,we just voted to get out of all that crap .It is enough to be able to trade on mutually agreed terms with countries instead of being told how/when and where we can trade .
The biggest issue we are going to have to face is that you youngsters(;)) don't know anything other than being in the EU ,you have always had the EU telling you what to do and you don't know any different.It may come as a shock but what will most likely happen is that if it proves too expensive to buy stuff in from EU countries because they took the hump with us for leaving then companies will simply start making the stuff ourselves just like we used to .We could become a manufacturing nation once again instead of being a nation of bankers and salesmen

---------- Post added at 08:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 ----------

Nobody said we wanted to be in the single market ,you said to have access to it we would have to maintain free movement which simply is not true .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Did we though? If we could stay in the common market without any of the rest of the EU stuff would that be ok?

A single market is very useful, especially for the service industry. Rather than the EU being a foreign market we trade with. Being able to treat Berlin as an addressable market the same way you would treat Liverpool is very good.

If we could get that without any of the other stuff perfect no?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

We don't need that ,for politicians to even suggest that shows a lack of confidence in themselves so while we're in the mood for chucking things out lets get rid of all the politicians not prepared to show some balls and make this work

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

Of course having free trade with the EU is better but we shouldn't get bogged down trying to get that at any cost ,we could survive quite easily without free trade .we used to be a self sufficient country actually supplying the rest of the world with skills and goods long before the EU swallowed us up

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well this is the problem isn't it? We voted Leave but not on what version of Leave we go for. There was a poll that showed the EEA was the most popular option of everyone because some on the Leave side supported it and the vast majority of Remain support it since it's the least change option. However a lot of Leave supporters would, rightly, be outraged because Immigration was the biggest theme of the Leave campaign.

This is why people are expecting an election so a governing party can get a mandate of what to do on Leave. I think though that Boris/Gove would be more inclined for the EEA option.

If we even had a chance of getting it that is. At the moment it seems the best deal we could get economically but the EU may well reject it.

We also had an Empire.

Going forward we need a pragmatic focus on what is best for the UK now. What does our economy need in a deal, what could we get and what would it cost us.

Remainers have to expect the result and work for the best option and Leavers might have to temper their expectations of what is achievable and accept inevitable downsides they may not have expected.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

My girlfriend is Austrian and it is one the most beautiful places I seen. We goto south Austrian near the border, very rural. First Brit they have ever met but I made a real effort to understand the culture and learn about all items and they accepted me with welcome arms

The problem is Austria is fighting its own right wing issues regarding immigration and I'm hearing the same stories as before 10 years here ("of course I don't count but..." Line)

Yes I could go now but I think we will be even more buffered as simply we don't know what the deal will be. Yes I deep in my heart it will sort itself out but no one can say that with any degree of certainty whether EU as a whole or individual deals. All I knew under EU I have that freedom. I know I come from a generation that watch the fall of the wall, able to travel freely and people can sit around a dinner table from 6 nations, I'm not saying it won't continue to happen but it's just got harder and when people speak of returning to the good old days I read the history books and if I'm being honest it need to stay there as it's not the future I want for me or my children.

Utopian/aspirational/day dream, perhaps but you need to start somewhere and make it work and I just can't see how packing up and leaving will make that work but good luck to us.

And as for Norway model, I'm pretty sure the majority of Norwegian think it's poor deal. Whilst we are demonstarting a leanient view here on CF (which I am grateful) and elsewhere let's be honest with ourselves; the majority didn't want Eu because of immigration, People from abroad here taking what they perceive is their jobs because they consider that unfair (but likewise would at see a problem with a Brit working abroad)

I look forward to the jobless Britain taking the seasonal jobs of fruit picking and social care looking after my grandma, working as barista and cleaning toilets. Well done guys you got it back:)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Any deal that involves free movement of any sort would be totally unacceptable

I would be very surprised if there wasn't a general election ,the problem is though is that all the major parties are pro Europe ,what about a new party or even a coalition with cross party ministers made up of Brexiters ?

Another reason why we need strong politicians ,not the weak willed spongers we have had to put up with ,they have become lazy and reliant on Europe telling them what to do

I agree to an extent but i see this as an opportunity to give British Politics a shake up .Our politicians have become used to simply marking time and letting Europe make the real decisions ,now they need to take some chances and have the underlying idea that it is possible for the UK to function outside of Europe

---------- Post added at 09:45 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------

You may well be surprised .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I don't understand why Anypermitedroute's girlfriend wouldn't be 'safe' ffs, is she going to be attacked or something? Given Austrias track record, you'd be less 'safe' in Austria.

I'm just glad we got the ref when we did, what with Gen Snowflake and the population makeup in the big Cities, another 5- 10 years would have killed that off forever.

This is our best chance to do something new and good, but it'll never work whilst half the country refuses to accept it and only offers doom and gloom.

I think a massive section of the public need to grow the fark up... petitions... calls for another ref... cries of how it's unfair... selfish old people etc etc.

It's happened, it's real, get over it.

Work together or it WILL fail.

Or is that what they want?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yep ,those same people complaining about leaving the EU are most likely the same people complaining about Britain not being great any more ,well now's our chance and they will never get a better one in their lifetimes.Heard some student twonk on the news this morning complaining because going through customs is going to be "such a polarva" :rolleyes:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Are the people who voted to stay in the EU the same people complaining about Britain not being great anymore? I would have thought such sentiments were more likely to come from people voting to Leave. They're far more likely to have been unhappy with the status-quo and to have been older. The archetypical Remain support would be a degree-level educated young person in a major city.

Personally I am not someone who thinks that. I think it's just a slogan. All of this stuff about believing in Britain, that Britain can be great again, doesn't go anywhere to making it happen. What will help is cold, hard, pragmatism and deal-making with the EU and beyond to secure the best outcome possible.

The vote was close. It's a divided country and in the case of Scotland a divide that may become tangible. We have a divide between cities and rural areas, young and old and between classes. This isn't going away. It wouldn't have gone away if Remain had won either. A fear some people had on either side was a close result and this is why.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Way to have an upbeat attitude Damien :rolleyes:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

l have not moaned about it even though l voted remain so l think you are rather over generalising when you say half the country refuses to accept it as most people l know who voted remain have accepted the will of the people and have said the sooner we try to make this country work again the better.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

there's a lot of talk in some papers about how the "boomers" have ruined the lives of 18-24 year olds who apparently voted to stay in large numbers ,does any one have an accurate turn out figure for this age group ie those who actually went to the polling booth . i found some stuff on the net yesterday that suggested a turn out of 34% and of that figure 70%voted remain not sure of its accuracy though.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Oh come on. What's wrong with what I said? :confused:

I think it's a fair assessment of the situation. I didn't say we were heading for disaster but that it's a divided country, it is by the way, and we need to achieve the best deal possible.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well you e gone from complete doom, to mild doom, another few days and your hysterics will be almost forgotten eh...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

My position is the same. I think Leaving is a mistake and I think it will hurt us economically. Democracy means you accept the result, which I do, but it doesn't mean you have to agree with it. When a party wins a General Election all the voters who didn't choose them have to accept their mandate to govern but they don't have to become supporters of the party.

I am pretty miffed at the sudden insistence those of us that lost become enthusiasts for the cause. I wouldn't expect any of you to become Europhiles had Remain won.

I do hope for a very good deal from Europe and that my reservations are wrong. I am not calling for a second referendum, I didn't sign that stupid petition.

I really don't know what all of you expect to be honest.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Some people are so used to being namby-pambied they are petrified of change.

The UK, as is often the case, is leading the way in instigating that change. There will be continued co-operation with Europe but it will be on different terms; terms that do not absorb our democratic right to determine our own future.

The vote has been taken. Everyone needs to get behind the choice of the majority and stop bellyaching and worrying. It is isolationist to look upon the referendum result as a mistake. We have opened the door to the World with Europe still included.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

EU Brexit referendum: France's Calais seeks border deal changes

Seems fair I suppose ..

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The French government is in charge of that. They haven't indicated it is in danger yet.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

This is interesting: maybe Leave are not going to do what they promised on immigration after all?

I am not sure how influential this chap is but if he is, worrying for those that voted leave:

Evan Davis Clashes With Daniel Hannan MEP On Newsnight After EU Referendum Brexit Vote

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The problem is that different Leavers had different ideas of what Leave is. Hannan, like Gove and Johnson, aren't too fussed about immigration but rather the social chapter stuff from the EU imposing themselves on UK law. It's why Hannan has always quite admired something 'close' to what Norway do. I.E Pay for entry to the single market.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I just read on sky news website that the 6 founding members are having a meeting to discuss UK leaving the EU minus the UK as they have EU related stuff to talk about as well and the UK can't be part of that anymore lol like we give a crap.

merkel went on to say that we wont let the UK destroy the EU. all I can say is take a chill pill we wanted to do it on our own we had or haven't shown any interest in destroying the EU. if the EU is that weak that it needs the UK to hold it together then it shows how weak the EU really was and we were puppets on a string.

It shows how the other member states must have actually being laughing at us from across the water and now we have left it's turned into negativity towards us and they don't see the funny side now we have taken their toys away

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Given the news reported today that several countries are now pushing for an EU referendum, it seems likely that the EU may be diminished or may even break up.

Given too the massive unhappiness in the EU countries this presents the new PM with an opportunity to create a new purely economic trading bloc with countries that leave.

It could be a genuine free trade area with no VAT, no Tariffs, no EU courts and no political union with immigration levels left at the discretion of national governments.

We do need and welcome immigrants but the government would have to manage their countrywide distribution better as heavy concentrations of immigrants in one area tend to breed resentment.

We also need to do a lot more to get the unemployed 5% of the population into a job because present schemes are not working. Part of that task will also be weeding out those who have no intention of getting a job and dealing with them.

I said unwelcome and safe in the context of whether safe to remain or be asked to leave.

No one knows this until discussion have taken place, we can have a view but there is now no guarantees of anything other than pulling out of EU

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

I think parting on good terms is a must to allow us to get good trade deals. Is there a way we can get deals with EU country or does it have to be a bloc deal? I know Germany want trade as usual and there is no way they will put up tariffs.

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 ----------

How much would it cost? This is the big question. We don't want to be back to paying to the EU as that kinda defeats the purpose of leaving somewhat.

I think we are in a different position to Norway and Switzerland as we have already been in the Single Market. I can't see why leaving the Political EU should bar us from leaving the Single Market. After all it was the Single Market we joined in the first place. No I think it would have to be some kind of different deal to them.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I definitely think Boris/Gove are more inclined towards the EEA option. It would tick most of the boxes for Daniel Hannan. It would probably outrage many on the UKIP side.

As long as they can point to freedom of movement as a 'necessary evil' they're alright.

Economically I think the EU wouldn't necessarily be too opposed. The UK was always a bad fit, that politically incorrect uncle you hope stays in the corner at the family party getting drunk and not talking to anyone.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

There's nothing really wrong with what you said but at least let the people have their day before the boring doom and gloom stuff starts ,a positive mental attitude never hurts ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yesterday 2 European immigrants that I know were asked when they were going home.

Yes, let's work together towards a sensible solution that works for all involved.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

£350,000,001 a day! Not really. I don't know. Probably similar to what we pay now without the rebate. The real cost though would be freedom of movement.

I think that's pretty much what the EEA sorta is. I think Hannan wants a version of that.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Or the UK that amazingly diverse country that attracts millions from around the world who will literally crawl through Spain/France etc to get here. This is a great diverse beautiful country, your hate filled anti UK comments should be kept for Facebook where you'll have plenty who agree with you!

I've read some of your comments in the past about reasons why you can't afford to live/buy a home in London! People in glass houses!!!!!!

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Let's sort this out once and for all. Leave never promised to stop immigration, they promised to limit it and cut it down. You can't stop it completely, you need immigration. You have to set a target of say 50k a year and not go above it. You don't have to take 50k, you may only need 20k so you stop well. In Australia, theirs is geared to get more immigration. This is why we say "an Australian Style.' and not an Australian system. It isn't rocket science really.

Incidentally, I hear talk of people asking reporters when they have to leave. They don't have to leave, this is where the confusion is. On the news a Poll asked that question live to a reporter. She asked this because she didn't have a British Passport. Do any of us have a British Passport? Wouldn't know haven't renewed mine since the 80's. I'd say if you have a job you'll be safe.
.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It would be good to leave on good terms if the EU will allow us to.

It might help if the new PM were to announce:-

a) we were still hoping to trade with the EU in some way without tariffs on either side

b) we were not planning to expel existing working, law abiding foreign nationals

c) we were allowing immigration into the UK within limits specified by the UK government

This would demonstrate good will and relieve some of the anxiety felt by foreign nationals here.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ommons-website

Petition urging second EU referendum reaches 1m signatures


I'm just wondering how highly likely this would happen? Can't take it seriously considering the petition wants London independent of the UK and part of the EU lol

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I could live with that.

Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
 

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 ----------

this is Grimsby car port [we used to be a fishing port] i drive past this every day we have cars in and we have car going out the little dots in the picture are cars that have just come off the eucc KESS and other boats like it it is an enormous amount of trade .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It won't happen.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Someone needs to reassure the EU Nationals here. That was only one example on the news, how many more are asking it in private?

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------

[QUOTE=papa smurf;35845476]Indeed it is and there is no reason why it can't continue IMHO. It's up to those negotiators to thrash it out.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think there is some convention that allows EU citizens to stay if they've been here 5/10 years it's just not very clear or well advertised. Other than that though we don't actually know, for sure, what their status is. It's just very unlikely they'll be made to leave because it would be far too costly, disruptive and unworkable to make them leave.

Some voters though seem to think that the immigration that has already happened would be reversed if we left.

Both campaigns are to blame for this perception though. Remain wanted to terrify people that there would be deportations and Leave didn't want to alienate voters who are voting because of immigration, especially in there area, they both made lip-service to the notion they would stay. Especially the Tory Leavers (Gove, Hannan and Johnson) but not especially loudly.

They'll be fine.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The EU states Britain must URGENTLY trigger article 50! Let it begin

http://news.sky.com/story/1717427/uk...rgently-france

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

To be honest if they really think they will all be kicked out then they have been fed some serious mis-information or are just plain thick

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The EU States are waking up and discovering when they drafted Article 50 they made no provision for the remaining states to force the start of negotiations. Only the British government can invoke Art50 and it is annoying the rest of them like hell.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Good innit :D