Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
Popper,
I read the links you posted and it looks like phorm's PR guys had better go back to Phorm's CEO for another briefing. The PR guy is stating that on opt-out is a total by-pass and is quite emphatic about it whereas the CEO is on record as stating that data will still be mirrored to Phorm but discarded. You cannot have two opposing answers to the same question and one would assume that the correct answer is the CEO's version. I particularly picked up on the CEO's term "mirrored" because as we know in computer parlance that can represent a raid array set-up whereby the contents of hard-drive are duplicated on another. I also liked the almost pleading request to come visit us and be convinced. In theory their product has massive merits to them and the ISP's and in a perfect world should be secure. We don't live in a perfect world. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
Some answers from someone who contacted us on behalf of Phorm...
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Consent - I do not consider an "opt-out" service to be truly consensual. "verified by Ernst & Young and the world's foremost privacy advocate, Simon Davies of Privacy International" - Simon Davies' work for Phorm was *not* done on behalf of Privacy International, but was instead done by his new privacy start-up called 80/20 Thinking Ltd. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7280791.stm I have read elsewhere that Privacy International are rather annoyed at Phorm suggesting that they approved of the system. PeopleOnPage - Don't know much about it, but F-Secure still classed it as Spyware... http://www.f-secure.com/sw-desc/peopleonpage.shtml Opt-out - I still don't think this has been fully explained. It says "When you opt out, your browsing information is not passed to Phorm, and as a result, you won't see any targeted ads. If you opt out, none of your data will pass through a Phorm-owned server. Your browsing behaviour will not be sent to Phorm if you opt out.", yet elsewhere they have stated that whether opted out or not, your data still passes to the "Profiler" equipment based at the ISP (which although allegedly owned by the ISP, is still a Phorm piece of equipment running Phorm software, it just apparently doesn't send your info any further for ad targeting if you're "opted-out".) |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I think there is a deliberate policy now to muddy the waters and make is so very difficult for ordinary users to wade through it. They know they are not going to convince the sort of people on forums but they can get the masses to walk into it under a misplaced belief that it will benefit them.
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Hi all
Further to prior posts I will try and get the name changed over. Secondly, you may all be interested to know there will be a second live web chat with the CEO and CIO of Phorm early next week. Details will follow on the board and via email to Mick. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
According to Symantec.... Apropos is classified as Spyware with a high risk category. It supplies details on it's removal which are in essence very complicated. The damage it can cause is to put the CPU into a 100% usage state which for all intents and purposes stops any other function and hard resetting (power button crashing) is the only way out.
Of the four criteria listed the only one that escapes the total falsehood claims is the fact that users chose to or were duped into installing the thing. Are we going to be duped into the next generation exploitation. The publisher of the Spyware is named as Peopleonpage and we are all now familiar who was responsible for that. IMO this PR exercise is so crude and so filled with obvious get out of jail attempts that I get more concerned every time they put something in print. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
According to various articles on eweek.com, F-Secure believed that was implicated with nasty practices.
For example, http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Wh...s-Coming-From/ |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Saying that once opted out, no data is passed through the phorm system is a blatant lie. Even when opted out data is ALWAYS mirrored to the profiler which is part of the phorm system.
The profiler may be owned by the ISP, HOWEVER, it would be obsolete if it were not for its requirement in the chain of the phorm system. Thus, no phorm equals no profiler. Ergo the profiler is part of the phorm system and as such phorm is in part responsible for its use. Why? Because its phorms software running on the profiler. Therefore phorm does play a significant part in the functionality of the profiler. SO STOP SAYING “If you opt out, none of your data will pass through a Phorm-owned server†because your just using semantics. Further more, who audits any future software upgrades or amendments to the profilier? |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Hi
Taken from the questions posed online; The Profiler is owned by the ISP. If someone opts out no data is passed from the ISP to Phorm. Phorm provides the software for the profiles, just like Cisco, for example, provides software for an ISP router. The ISP can see exactly what data is being passed in and out of its systems and has complete control over it. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Ive already stated that the software on the profiler is phorms, so why respond with the same cut n paste reply thats been appearing elsewhere. The question was: Who audits any future software upgrades or amendments to the profilier? its a simple question no? |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Phorm (under former Company names) has a reputation associated with rootkits and spyware software. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
PhormUktechteam,
It doesn't matter one iota who owns the profiler or who writes the software because one fact is virtually certain and that is if Phorm did not exist, neither would the profiler. I am sorry but your answer does nothing to alleviate any fears and if anything you appear to be shifting the responsibility back to the ISP's which I doubt will please them. There is a question that you can answer (maybe). Can you assure me\us that an opt-out ensures that no data of any kind passes through or is mirrored to the profiler?. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
;)
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I have no questions for Phorm. Discussion with Phorm is irrelevant and a red herring.
It is in their vested interest to offer platitudes, explanation and qualification for their proposals and they are here only to placate and manipulate. I am not a customer of Phorm. I do not want Webwise, OIX, any form of 'Thought Police' monitoring or useless, distracting, irritating advertisements. I am a customer of Virgin Media. I expect the customer contract of trust and privacy to be honoured. In return, I pay for the service I receive. Virgin Media should not expect to be paid twice for that service. Phorm are greedy for high returns for minimum effort and VM are taking a big risk riding that gravy train. Time for a re-think VM before your dithering is exploited by rivals. Phorm are not the issue. Virgin Media are the issue. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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