Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

We all want answers but there are ways and means to getting them, being aggressive isn't one of them.

Fully agree - I think we need a nail hit on head smiley. :D

Coming Soon. i.e No official date for implementation as far as Virgin Media is concerned.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Sorry you feel that way. Was simply stating my case, forcefully. Though your entitled to think what you think.

I've watched and read their woolly replies on many other sites and wasn't prepared to sit back and see the same thing happen here.

But I stand by what I said before, you cannot take what they say at face value. Every time I read one of their replies I feel like I'm being lied to, cant help it, thats just the way I feel.


that really is the million dollar question. I guess we will know more when we get that letter from VM telling us about this 'great new security service' we are about to force cough i mean give you the option of using.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Yeah and you're entitled to feel like that but let others decide for themselves.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

I have two questions that I don't think have been covered:-

1) Are the ads specifically targeted at the cookie in your browser? If my Nan uses one PC in the house and I use the other will her cookery related surfing affect the ads served to me?
2) Can the opt out be done on an IP/account basis? If I want to opt out of the service I assume I'm not going to have to opt out in every browser on every PC that use my IP?

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

Just thought of a third:

3) How are you going to prove to your advertisers how efficient your product is if you don't track any data on it? How can you tell how many ABC1s you've reached and how on earth can you set a tariff with your buyers without this data?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Yes they are, and no they won't.
No it can't, and yes, you will.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

I thought that was the whole point of this thread, to express your feelings about this Phorm system. Weather they be positive or negative.

Others will decide for themselves, free choice, no gun to the head, so why say "let others decide for themselves". What has that got to do with me? I'm merely voicing an opinion.

feel free to PM me rather than post back here in this thread.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

What about the previously mentioned advice of blocking the cookie from oix.net? If you have a router capable of blocking access to domains then you would be covered for any machine that connected to your home network.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Which is fine unless users are sharing a single user account and browser profile.

diagrams The bigger question is, why would the ISP even do packet inspection on every request instead of simply creating a VLAN trunk (or equiv) to bypass the system for those who opted out?

I'm cooked :beer: but there's some reading material here

---------- Post added at 22:16 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

It's an opt out system, no cookie and phorm get your clickstream. See the register article (with diagrams) I linked above.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Yes...I hope that'll work - my router is already configured to block OIX.net.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

I'd prefer that the Phorm system didn't exist and wasn't to be used. It is good to see that they are at least trying stand up and be counted, even if so far we're not convinced by the arguments.

My real beef however is that I don't have a contract with Phorm. I have a contract with Virgin Media and it is thus my ISP that should be justifying to me as their customer, what they are up to. My ISP shouldn't be hiding behind their supplier's coat tails.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

In no way am I trying to defend Phorm, but if you've never allowed the cookie that contains your unique "anonymyzed random ID number" onto your hard drive, how will they know which ID record on their server to add your browsing behaviour categories to? In other words, how will they know which anonymous user is requesting the webpages you are viewing? They claim to only store 3 types of data - Your anonymous ID number, category tags and timestamps for the date/time you viewed pages containing those categories. They also claim that there is no overlap between Phorm's data system and your ISP's identifiable data about you (such as your IP address, your modem's MAC address, your name, your VM account No., etc.) so if they're not lying, without that anonymous ID number, they've got no way of knowing which user record to assign your page categories to.
Now, if we assume they are cheating, lying, underhand b*****ds, and plan to aggregate data on even those people who have opted out by blocking oix.net cookies, they would have to identify your browsing record on their server using some other unique identifier which could be positively tied to your connection's clickdata - and that, presumably, would have to be one of those personally-identifiable pieces of data from your ISP that they claim not to have access to. If it turned-out they were doing this, not only would they be in deep trouble, so would Virgin for supplying them with that personally-identifiable information. Probably to the tune of bankruptcy once class action law suits and regulator fines had been accounted for. Not even Virgin Media are that stupid.
(And I still don't want this damned system...)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

That is actually a very good question, and one that I've been pondering myself now for a few hours. After all what would be the point of an optout cookie, if having no unique anonymyzed random ID cookie achieves the same thing.

Perhaps this could be another question to put to their tech team?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

:tu:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

:) So why have they developed a ridiculous cookie based opt-out system that sends this info to their anonymizer instead of having the opt-out at the ISP/network level? This is pretty much the question I've been asking.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Spot on, TechTeam. Sometimes you can't let users dictate how new technologies and ideas are applied - it's going to affect the bottom line. My own company, SchaftU, is just coming out of stealth mode and may I humbly say that we've modelled ourselves on forward-looking tech companies like yourselves. I hope I'm not giving too much away (to the Police) when I say that we're looking at a number of major high street banks and offering their customers an exciting new opportunity to reassign their assets using our patent-pending BankJob technology. Now, it's possible that when we have implemented this across the specific vaults targetted for trials going forward, that some of the more vocal customers will complain - there are always a few - but we think when we've got the publicity right, paid for some studies, and tweaked our processes, then we'll get the buy-in we need. The point is, don't let unproductive discussion, outdated ethics and premature dialogue with the end user get in the way of inevitable technological progress. If I may, I'd like to elevate the philosophy you yourselves have expressed to a slogan that all forward-looking technology companies should take to heart -

"Just try it out and get it wrong."

Three cheers for this great leap forward in privacy! I can't wait for my family to share the joke when they're served ads related to my porn surfing! Classic. You guys are a ray of light in our otherwise poorly-profiled and inadequately-targeted lives.

MD, SchaftU Enterprises