Re: Brexit discussion
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---------- Post added at 10:29 ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 ---------- All the stuff above aside what are people expecting from Theresa May tomorrow in Florence? ---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 ---------- Quote:
From what I've read business is desperately looking for something concrete from tomorrow's speech. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...in-loses-jobs/ Is one example. There are others from other sectors all over the place though. She absolutely has to nail this. 'Brexit means Brexit and we're going to make a success of it' isn't going to cut it. |
Re: Brexit discussion
I had hoped that I was going to finish my life in uninteresting times. I guess everyone else got bored with that idea..;)
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Re: Brexit discussion
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One of the most unpopular policies from the last election was intended to get the economy back on an even keel and people rarely vote for tax rises or spending cuts. As far as what we do best goes the world is very, very different from the pre-EEC days, the UK economy is very, very different and what our trade partners want from us is very, very different. It's also debatable whether the will of the people as it stands now is pro-globalisation. Are you in favour of the UK going along the lines of Singapore, would you prefer the UK to become more of a social democracy, or do you envisage it remaining roughly as it is in terms of the balance between state and private sector, and the level of regulation? The words sound great, what is your vision to achieve them? |
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I do not disagree that much has changed since pre-EEC days, but the principles of free trade are still there, in fact many tariffs that used to be imposed have been eliminated or reduced. The EU has restricted our ability to trade freely and make new deals and these shackles will be removed when we get out. The public voted to leave the EU. That also means leaving the Common Market and the Customs Union, because unless we do this, we cannot control immigration and we cannot make our own trade deals. That would contradict the logic of leaving and this half way house would be a shocking disappointment and a disaster for this country. All this talk about a Singapore type country emerging from all this is hype and complete overkill. The reason the Government has unleashed the potential of such an arrangement is to bring the EU to its senses sooner rather than later in the negotiation. We would only have that outcome if the EU folded its arms and refused to negotiate. But the point is, they will negotiate, because it is in our joint interests to do so. We are only in the posturing stage at the moment, and after the German elections, we can look forward to Angela Merkel taking a firm steer on these negotiations which will result in a sensible outcome. The thing that many remainers can't get their heads around is that a deal with the EU is by far the most likely outcome and that Britain will benefit both from being able to trade on reasonable terms with the EU and make its own trade deals while at the same time controlling immigration and making our own laws. The thought of Britain behaving a la Singapore right on their doorstep frightens the EU to death because that would introduce huge unwelcome competition that obviously they wouldn't want. They would also be putting their own economies at risk and increasing unemployment if the EU introduced tariffs to reduce their trade with us. This is why David Davis has a permanent grin on his face. Unless the EU is completely bonkers, he knows they will capitulate eventually. If Canada can do a trade deal without suffering huge EU encumbrancies, and other countries all over the world can also do so without trade deals, then so can we. The only real question that remains, stripping away all the hype, is how long the transition period will be (and this depends on the result of the negotiation because until we know what is agreed, we don't know what the length of that period will be) and the price of the divorce bill. And that will be based on legal obligations and a fair price to get a good settlement. |
Re: Brexit discussion
Here's a piece from Iain Martin, a journalist who certainly supports Brexit but who, like Dominic Cummings, is alarmed by the way the Government is going about implementing it.
Paywalled. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...bf4cc0cc72404c Quote:
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Incidentally, you asked also about the type of Government I envisaged once we leave the EU. I found that surprising, as surely this will be determined by the voters at General Elections. However, I do think that a Conservative Government under strong leadership would be best placed to make a success of Brexit. I am beginning to have doubts about whether Theresa May is up to it, given everything that's happened, but I think she deserves a chance to redeem herself after that disastrous election campaign. |
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It is of course in their interests to negotiate, however it's also in our interests to present a realistic position which, so far, we haven't. Friday may change this. Angela Merkel doesn't control the negotiations, and cannot unilaterally change the negotiating position. A deal requires consensus and to change the negotiating parameters requires much the same. Quote:
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There's no need for any capitulation; there's every need for co-operation. It's interesting your statements seem to hinge on the assumption that the EU's behaviour will be guided purely by economic considerations. I believe many criticisms of the EU focused on its behaviour not being guided purely by economic considerations, and certainly the cases made for the UK to leave the EU were not guided by economic considerations. Let's hope that, for the first time in this affair, such considerations take precedence over politics, emotions, and vague abstract notions. While most of the EU aren't extremists like Juncker there are, much as here, a number of people in places of power that will not act pragmatically. This article from CBC Canada is interesting. In fact, most of the more interesting articles are produced not in the UK or Europe but by third nations in my experience. |
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David Davis is supremely confident that there will be an outbreak of common sense before long, and the longer it takes for the EU to see the light, the more stupid they are going to look. |
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As for the balance between the public and private sector, I think we should apply whatever is most efficient. Some things are best done in the private sector, some in the public sector. I really think we pay far too much attention to which sector is providing the service. Some would have the public sector doing everything, just for the sake of it. |
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The issues are: - Services are delivered locally due to time zone constraints, travel, cultural differences etc. - The delivery of services to the EU (our largest services market with 400m customers) is dependent upon common standards. The Swiss and Norwegians get this and are EEA members ie rule-takers and budget contributors not rule-makers. Why should we expect a better deal than Switzerland, one of the richest countries in the world? - Developing countries in the Middle East which might substitute for some of the European market are quite protectionist and don't necessarily share our values in the way that European countries do. - The EU has been the most successful body at concluding trade deals. It's not holding us back. Which significant opportunities are we being denied that leaving the EU will open up? ---------- Post added at 23:33 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ---------- Interesting poll 52% of the country wants to remain in the EU. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7960226.html |
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Poll after poll shows that these polls cannot be relied upon. These same polls that said Theresa May would have still got a majority in June snap election. These same polls that said Hillary Clinton would become President of the United States. |
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Saying everything is going to be alright isn't enough. People want assurance that we will be better off with hard facts, not political platitudes |
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