Cable Forum - A guardian journalist suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

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- - A guardian journalist suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33705300)

Mick	23-08-2017 10:54

A guardian journalist suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-next-slavery

Quote:

One of the obstacles all these abolitionists had to overcome was the influence of Nelson, who was what you would now call, without hesitation, a white supremacist. While many around him were denouncing slavery, Nelson was vigorously defending it. Britain’s best known naval hero – so idealised that after his death in 1805 he was compared to no less than “the God who made him” – used his seat in the House of Lords and his position of huge influence to perpetuate the tyranny, serial rape and exploitation organised by West Indian planters, some of whom he counted among his closest friends.

It is figures like Nelson who immediately spring to mind when I hear the latest news of confederate statues being pulled down in the US. These memorials – more than 700 of which still stand in states including Virginia, Georgia and Texas – have always been the subject of offence and trauma for many African Americans, who rightly see them as glorifying the slavery and then segregation of their not so distant past. But when these statues begin to fulfil their intended purpose of energising white supremacist groups, the issue periodically attracts more mainstream interest.

The article was written by extreme left wing liberal, Afua Hirsch.

So is she right? Do we pull it down or is she stark raving mad for bringing the crap going on in the US, with Confederate Statues being torn down, over here? :rolleyes:

GrimUpNorth

23-08-2017 11:06

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35913734)

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-next-slavery

The article was written by extreme left wing liberal, Afua Hirsch.

So is she right? Do we pull it down or is she stark raving mad for bringing the crap going on in the US, with Confederate Statues being torn down, over here? :rolleyes:

Not the same, but if they'd named a car after him in the Dukes of Hazzard then he'd of been fair game ;).

Cheers

Dave

papa smurf

23-08-2017 11:07

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

i would suggest we adopt an open door policy on these matters ie if you don't like it the doors open sod off .

pip08456

23-08-2017 11:09

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

She is stark raving mad.

Nelson has not been memorialised for his views on slavery but for being the best Admiral this country has ever had.

Ignitionnet

23-08-2017 11:18

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Click bait. Comparing Nelson to confederate figures is moronic. The people who green lit the article know it.

Nothing liberal about the writer of the article by the looks of it. Quite the opposite.

nomadking

23-08-2017 11:25

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Pyramids? Mecca? Mummadad and anything connected to him? Good luck with that.:rolleyes:

Quote:

The legality of slavery in Islam, together with the example of the Prophet Muhammad, who himself bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves, may explain why slavery persisted until the 19th century in many places (and later still in some countries).

Saint Patrick's Day should be banned?

Quote:

Patrick's exact birthplace is unknown, but was probably in England or Wales. When he was 16, Patrick was captured by Irish pirates and taken as a slave to Ireland,

The slave trade existed on Africa long before the "West" turned up. Even then it was the Africans that initially enslaved them and ran the slave trade.

Quote:

Most of our knowledge of Ghana comes from Arab writers. Al-Hamdani, for example, describes Ghana as having the richest gold mines on earth. These were situated at Bambuk, on the upper Senegal River. The Soninke also sold slaves, salt and copper, in exchange for textiles, beads and finished goods.

Quote:

To be sure, slavery and slave trading were already firmly entrenched in many African societies before their contact with Europe.
...
Another aspect of the impact of the trans-Atlantic slave trade on Africa concerns the role of African chiefs, Muslim traders, and merchant princes in the trade.
...
It is important to mention, however, that the supply of slaves to the Gold Coast was entirely in African hands.

All things conveniently(or deliberately) forgotten.

Damien

23-08-2017 11:46

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

I think it's a bit inaccurate to say The Guardian called for it to be pulled down. They published an opinion piece from someone else calling for it to be pulled down, this wasn't an editorial, and they often have columns from people who aren't expressing the views of the paper. David Cameron and Daniel Hannan have written pieces before.

Still they know it's clickbait.

As has been expressed above we shouldn't compare senior figures from the Confederacy to Nelson. It's not the same thing. Nelson's column wasn't put up in celebration of Nelson's position on slavery, or for fighting to maintain slavery, or for being a white supremacist. It's same stupid argument people were making comparing George Washington to Robert Lee because the former had slaves.

Also while we're at it it's not as if Nelson's column is the same as some cheap crap mass produced in the 1920s and put outside some generic court house.

---------- Post added at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35913734)

The article was written by extreme left wing liberal, Afua Hirsch.

She isn't a liberal it seems but left wing. Left wing and liberal are not necessarily the same thing. :p: In fact communists/socialists and really left wing people hate liberals.

RizzyKing

23-08-2017 13:51

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Give it time and statues all over the place will come under scrutiny of the more informed modern folk.

heero_yuy

23-08-2017 14:34

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

The Romans had many slaves from all over their empire. Would she suggest we demolish Hadrian's wall or any other Roman architecture or statue for that reason?

As pointed out by Nomadking the Muslims were still into widespraed slavery until farely recently. No doubt her silence would be deafening when this fact is pointed out to her.

Damien

23-08-2017 15:13

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35913761)

The Romans had many slaves from all over their empire. Would she suggest we demolish Hadrian's wall or any other Roman architecture or statue for that reason?

No. People aren't arguing that things built with slavery should be demolished. That would be pretty difficult. Instead they're arguing we should tear down statues that honor those who fought for retaining slavery.

Mick	23-08-2017 15:40

Re: A guardian journalist suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35913743)

Quite right, thread title changed accordingly.

---------- Post added at 14:35 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35913743)

She isn't a liberal it seems but left wing. Left wing and liberal are not necessarily the same thing. :p: In fact communists/socialists and really left wing people hate liberals.

She used to be on Sky News and she also did the panel debate show, The Pledge, she did seem to support a lot of Corbyn's policies, but from what I remember, seemed disappointed him in as a leader.

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35913739)

Click bait. Comparing Nelson to confederate figures is moronic. The people who green lit the article know it.

Nothing liberal about the writer of the article by the looks of it. Quite the opposite.

Agreed this seems click bait, but saw this was being brought up on Sky News yesterday, there was also a channel 4 piece on it...

Can be watched here, around 9 minutes long video...

https://www.channel4.com/news/should...perrins-debate

Damien

23-08-2017 15:42

Re: A guardian journalist suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35913771)

She used to be on Sky News and she also did the panel debate show, The Pledge, she did seem to support a lot of Corbyn's policies, but from what I remember, seemed disappointed him in as a leader.

She might well be far left. But generally those people aren't liberals because of the level of control their ideology requires. They hate liberals because they think we enable fascism by either subscribing to free markets or allowing a 'broken' system to prosper. :rolleyes:

Ken W

23-08-2017 16:13

Re: the guardian suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35913738)

She is stark raving mad.

Nelson has not been memorialised for his views on slavery but for being the best Admiral this country has ever had.

Many tourists like to see Nelsons Column.

Osem	23-08-2017 19:40

Re: A guardian journalist suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

All sorts of views and practices used to be abhorrent. Are we going to tear down the statues of everyone who ever did anything which today would be considered unacceptable? At what point does all this stop? This is yet another PC driven bandwagon for people to jump on.

Taf	23-08-2017 20:15

Re: A guardian journalist suggests Nelsons Column should be brought down

Tear down his statue and put one of John Noakes on top of the column!

I can be equally as silly as her idea.....

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