Cable Forum - Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

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- - Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU. (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33699891)

Mr Angry

19-01-2015 17:18

Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

"Unemployed Britons in Europe are drawing much more in benefits and allowances in the wealthier EU countries than their nationals are claiming in the UK, despite the British government’s arguments about migrants flocking in to the country to secure better welfare payments.

At least 30,000 British nationals are claiming unemployment benefit in countries around the EU, research by the Guardian has found, based on responses from 23 of the 27 other EU countries."

http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/14183126...atablog_do.svg

Gardigan.

Derek

19-01-2015 17:29

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Maybe I'm not reading that right but if you take out the brits in Eire there are a lot more EU nationals claiming UK benefits than the other way round, especially from Poland and other ex-communist countries.

Surely that backs up the argument by some that the UK is attracting a large number of migrants to exploit our benefits?

bonzoe

19-01-2015 20:02

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Not sure what point it is that OP is trying to make.

I agree with Derek.

Taf	19-01-2015 20:11

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

I know a lot of Brits who moved to Eire when there was a huge jobs boom (especially with tax-haven-seeking US companies). When it all went sour, they were stuck there with no jobs, no prospects, and major negative equity on their homes.

Pierre

19-01-2015 20:52

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Just looking at that graphic and trying to tot it up quickly in my head shows that there are 40,000 ish Brits claiming JSA in other European countries.

Whereas, there are 58,000 ish other nationals claiming in the UK.

Which puts us at least 18,000 to the bad.

What was your point again?

nomadking

19-01-2015 21:55

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

How many of those claiming in Ireland are actually of British origins? More likely to be of Irish origins, eg born over here to Irish parents?

How many are on ESA or claiming other benefits and tax credits for selling a few copies of the "Big Issue" or collecting a few bits of scrap?

The figures are nonsense. Eg there are getting on for 4,000 Czech/Slovak Roma just in Rotherham. Extrapolate around the country and there are a LOT more than 11,000 Czech/Slovak Roma claiming benefits. That is just one "small" group.

Quote:

Almost all of Rotherham's Roma community have migrated from Slovakia or the Czech Republic since 2004 and a high proportion of adults have little or no English language skills.
...
The Roma population has increased from none in 2004 to an estimated 3,700 in 2012 and continues to grow through migration and natural change.

Quote:

An estimated 200,000 Roma migrants are living in Britain, new research shared exclusively with Channel 4 News reveals.

Mr Angry

19-01-2015 23:27

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35753725)

How many of those claiming in Ireland are actually of British origins? More likely to be of Irish origins, eg born over here to Irish parents?

It's appears to be very specific in that it refers to "British nationals".

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35753725)

How many are on ESA or claiming other benefits and tax credits for selling a few copies of the "Big Issue" or collecting a few bits of scrap?

I don't know. It seems to be a chart specific to JSA claimants, nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35753725)

The figures are nonsense. Eg there are getting on for 4,000 Czech/Slovak Roma just in Rotherham. Extrapolate around the country and there are a LOT more than 11,000 Czech/Slovak Roma claiming benefits. That is just one "small" group.

Again, it's only representative of JSA claimants. It may be the case, in fact it's almost a certainty, that not all Czech/Slovak Roma claim JSA.

nomadking

20-01-2015 00:06

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35753739)

It's appears to be very specific in that it refers to "British nationals".

I don't know. It seems to be a chart specific to JSA claimants, nothing else.

Again, it's only representative of JSA claimants. It may be the case, in fact it's almost a certainty, that not all Czech/Slovak Roma claim JSA.

Wouldn't somebody born here to Irish Nationals eg, Irish travellers, be officially classed as British?

Must be a very high proportion of Roma on ESA. As of 2013, there was an estimated 200,000 Roma in the UK. Remember that is just one group for which there happens to be some figures.

The article is meant to be about claiming benefits, therefore only including JSA is misleading.

Pierre

20-01-2015 06:44

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Still doesn't get away from the fact , that using the actual graphic posted, UK nationals are less of a burden on the EU, than other EU nationals are on the UK.

I'm still struggling to see the point of the original post? Can anyone help me?

Mr Angry

20-01-2015 06:48

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35753741)

Wouldn't somebody born here to Irish Nationals eg, Irish travellers, be officially classed as British?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35753741)

Must be a very high proportion of Roma on ESA. As of 2013, there was an estimated 200,000 Roma in the UK. Remember that is just one group for which there happens to be some figures.

There may well be, the item doesn't give figures for ESA. However, the article which you quoted from about the Rotherham area states "Nearly half of the Roma population are children and young people under 18". As such they are not entitled to any work age benefits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35753741)

The article is meant to be about claiming benefits, therefore only including JSA is misleading.

The article is principally about Britons claiming unemployment benefits in other European countries. It is specific to JSA, I assume, because that is the principal unemployment benefit in the UK. I'm sure other figures are available via the DWP site, where these UK figures appear to have come from along with the ONS, should you need them.

Ignitionnet

20-01-2015 09:46

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Not a big surprise the Grauniad is pushing the pro-EU agenda, is it?

nomadking

20-01-2015 10:03

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35753760)

Not necessarily. I believe they might be able to claim Irish citizenship. That's beside the point anyway. If the claimant count in the article have stated their nationality as British then they're British.

There may well be, the item doesn't give figures for ESA. However, the article which you quoted from about the Rotherham area states "Nearly half of the Roma population are children and young people under 18". As such they are not entitled to any work age benefits.

The article is principally about Britons claiming unemployment benefits in other European countries. It is specific to JSA, I assume, because that is the principal unemployment benefit in the UK. I'm sure other figures are available via the DWP site, where these UK figures appear to have come from along with the ONS, should you need them.

They are going to Ireland because they consider themselves Irish, even though from a legal viewpoint they are British.

The 200,000 figure is from 2013. The number will have jumped since then. Half of 200,000 is still a lot and I obviously have to repeat the FACT that it is only ONE group. You could probably multiply that up by at least a factor of 10 to get a better picture.

Mr Angry

20-01-2015 10:30

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35753788)

They are going to Ireland because they consider themselves Irish, even though from a legal viewpoint they are British.

I can see no reference to that in the report. Where are you drawing your information from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35753788)

The 200,000 figure is from 2013. The number will have jumped since then. Half of 200,000 is still a lot and I obviously have to repeat the FACT that it is only ONE group. You could probably multiply that up by at least a factor of 10 to get a better picture.

But it's not half of 200,000 is it? It was half of those in the Rotherham area which was the article you quoted from.

Do you have hard data on the numbers of Roma (for example) that are claiming JSA that is at odds with the DWP / ONS figures or is it just an assumption on your part?

If you are disputing their figures I suggest you take it up with them rather than "probably" factoring anything.

It's helpful to deal with facts rather than probables.

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35753783)

Not a big surprise the Grauniad is pushing the pro-EU agenda, is it?

Interesting statistics none the less.

Ignitionnet

20-01-2015 10:39

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35753799)

Interesting statistics none the less.

A set of statistics sufficiently selective from a wide cohort to be irrelevant and potentially misleading. A single benefit alongside its equivalents in Europe when welfare systems are very much different across the individual countries renders it basically meaningless.

The only really interesting part is Eire <> UK, however I feel that needs way more discussion as while, of course, Eire are a part of the EU, there are inevitably a number of factors which simply aren't present in other EU countries.

Statistics detailing full welfare receipts would be far more interesting and, I suspect, present a far more negative case, hence why the Grauniad were so selective.

Very Inverse-UKIP.

Chris

20-01-2015 11:14

Re: Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35753811)

A set of statistics sufficiently selective from a wide cohort to be irrelevant and potentially misleading.

In the Guardian? Shurley not!

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