Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

How do youngsters today have a lack of computer skills? :/

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

Given the amount of IT kit i have seen delivered into the secondary school across the road from me i cannot understand how any kid these days lacks basic ICT skills.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

You should see my niece on a laptop. she's only 9 and she's a whizz kid on it.

she can type really fast. none of this "Where's the P?" stuff.
she just throws paragraphs at me on Google Talk. she's almost as fast as me.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

Believe me, a lot of teenagers that I encounter (and I encounter a lot as part of my job) do lack IT skills.

The problem is, as far as I can make out, that when teaching ICT schools, schools teach pupils the essentials of using Microsoft Office and Windows based products.

Don't get me wrong, that in itself is not a bad thing. Where it is bad is that while they are very good at using various business packages, very few students that I see come into Uni (and for those that don't go to Uni, they go into the workforce) have any real understanding of the technology that underpins those packages (and even the operating system that runs them).

This is not an understanding that most people need, any more than a driver needs to know how the engine that is powering their car really works.

The problem occurs when companies need access to that kind of knowledge. People that only have a knowledge of Office are not really any good when a company needs someone to train for a more involved task, such as coding for the OS running a new device, or designing and installing a major telecoms network (whether its internal to a company or a national telecoms network). These companies are being forced to go abroad to get qualified workers. This not only hurts our teenagers employment opportunities, but also, ultimately, will render the country non-competitive (assuming it hasn't already) in an industry that is a core foundation for most future industrial opportunities.

Think about that.

Most of the potential future opportunities for our country will involve computers at some level. Those computers will require software. We are breeding a generation of people that have been bought up with access to computers since birth, but are unable to program them.

We are are also bringing up a generation of people that will probably have trouble when Microsoft software is replaced with the next big thing. If you think I am being alarmist, maybe I am, but it's a matter of fact that in computing the current big thing (which at this point in time is Microsoft) has repeatedly been replaced with the next big thing. If it hadn't, our pupils would be learning Multiplan and running it on CP/M rather than learning Excel and running it on Windows.

I personally feel that teaching ICT is a good thing. However, I think we also need to start teaching pupils things that are a little lower level than what we teach now. Things like how computers actually work at the OS level, and how to program (in Java or C++ rather than VBScript).

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

Your absolutely right Stuart and i hadn't thought about it in those terms although it is one of the reasons i am in favour of a more vocatioanl approach to education from say age 13 to 18. I think we are lacking a lot of the skills that underpin our society and are in danger of becoming a surface culture where as long as what we see is ok we don't know about or care about whats under the bonnet so to speak. I know for myself when i try to teach the kids in our family even tiny basics like running a virus scan or using the spam feature in security packages their eyes just glaze over because they view it as something for someone else to sort if it goes wrong.

I always remember a scene from the original bbc series of survivor's in the seventies when the mum goes to the school and meets the old teacher who asks her if she knows anything about making the things she use's everyday. We are a very throw away society now rather then when i was a kid and there was no greater joy then taking things apart and finding out how they work you don't see that in many kids now.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

I agree. Computing is one example of an industry having trouble finding qualified people in England. It's by no means the only one.

I remember reading an article a few years ago comparing and contrasting the running of two similarly sized projects. The construction of Terminal 5 and the construction of Wembley. While it certainly wasn't the point of the article, one thing that the people in charge at both projects apparently found was that they had trouble employing enough qualified British craftsmen to fulfull the needs of the project (IIRC the guy in charge of building terminal 5 said he was having to offer builders £30-£40,000 a year). This was probably the catalyst for the large number of Polish craftsmen coming to this country.

I don't think the only source of the problem is what the schools are teaching, it's not. A lot of teenagers have the idea the world owes them something, or that they shouldn't need to work hard to earn money (you can thank any number of 'slebs and footballers for this). Unfortunately, the world doesn't work like that.

However, I do think that (and I think Incog will agree with this) if a teacher is good at their job, they will manage to engage the pupils attention and those pupils will learn a lot more, and maybe more inclined to study further in that industry.

Take, for example, a friend of mine. She is a part time lecturer in Mathematics, as well as being a researcher. Now, I'll be honest. While I am perfectly capable of understanding how and why things work mathematically, and do alright at mental arithmetic, Maths is not a strong point of mine, and I've never really found it that interesting.

I saw her lecture once. Somehow, she managed to do something that I'd never thought I'd see (and certainly haven't experienced at School, College or Uni). She managed to make Maths come alive and seem relevant to everything (i know Maths is relevant to everything, but I'd never seen someone demonstrate that effectively). We need more teachers that can do that.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

I disagree here. It's an increasing complaint people are having about IT education that students do not know how to program. I cannot see why they should. I myself am I programmer and it's a specific skill and actually one that I don't have to call upon for everyday life, I can't recall a single time I have needed to write some code to achieve a non-work related task. What's more it's a skill that easily atrophies without regular use, frameworks, languages and libraries I haven't used for years are forgotten. You also have to remember that a large part of modern programming concerns it's self with abstract notions to make it easier such as variables, methods, objects, inheritance and more all of which are fundamentally useless if applied elsewhere.

We also have little time to teach students. They have to be educated in so many other things that their education within IT should not be spent on a specific and narrow skill but a broader understanding of the basics of computing, the internet and so on.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

I'd also like to add that if you teach too much too soon you just put students off.The majority are bored enough with spreadsheets and have a great deal of trouble learning how to use them.Ask them to code and you will have say about 2 out of thirty that will have the patience to learn and want to do it as a career.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

I agree that we can't expect schools to teach everything about computing, or even teach the low level stuff. They don't have time. However, I am not necessarily talking about that. I'm talking about encouraging students to do things like scripting if they want, but I see a lot of students who are actually brilliant with Office and Windows (from a GUI point of view) but ask them about a file or folder and they'll look at you as if you are speaking Swahili.

You can argue that if someone is interested enough to program, they will and there are plenty of free tools to help them, and, in general, you'd be right, assuming they are interested enough to look in the first place. What about those who don't know they are interested? Maybe some would be with a little encouragement.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

I think few reasons one we seem to be glued to microsoft products. Not all business use there products but when do they expect indepth knowledge. I think also down to lack churn schools dont have latest tools for the trade. Often companies often versions ahead.

We simply dont give enough time to get grips those software.

We dont invest in schools either in time or money to what business needs. Do we use Quarkexpress, Sage accounting etc. Just example leading software solutions used. Do we teach latest programming techniques keep abreast in IT developments change the curriculum to embrace it.

I actually dont think the companies should get off lightly they want to be spoon fed today. Little time given to get people upto speed should accept period of getting grips with software techniques used.

I dont think IT skills are alone we dont gear pupils for work its all geared to higher education. Not all down to poor standard teaching either environments are hell at times. We dont identify dyslexia or troubled kids who simply get frustrated way they dont get the help.

Prince trust bit right but other issues too.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

One of the reasons why I am useless with regard to software. I can build a PC or Mac and install the software to make it run. Beyond that, read the help files! I prefer the screwdrivers.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

If everyone could do everything, there wouldn't be a need for skilled people and the world wouldn't work.

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

How many of you actually read the article? I only skimmed it and already I can see most of you have not.

They are talking about basic computer skills not advanced skills

This is basic stuff

So it s simple form filling and basic computer skills they are worried about and this is fair. Not everyone yet has a PC or laptop and not all know their way around basic tasks. Trust me I meet loads of them

Re: Prince's Trust: Poor IT skills hurt youth job chances
 

A good many of them regard their IT lessons as an excuse to play games behind teachers back..That's why they don't pick up the skills.They also don't think their teachers who are older than them know anything about computers.They are dismissive of them for that reason.