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-   -   Newport Cleppa Park (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=9763)

icanadvise 20-03-2004 10:27
Newport Cleppa Park
 
The last thread seems to have vanished :confused:

Apparently not to be outsourced to India but there was an announcement yesterday on this subject no?

Neil 20-03-2004 10:30
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanadvise
The last thread seems to have vanished :confused:

Apparently not to be outsourced to India but there was an announcement yesterday on this subject no?
It was removed because you are posting rumours about people's jobs. :nono:

Why don't you go & ask on the site you normally come on here & spam? :rolleyes:

slimshady 21-03-2004 11:05
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Not wishing to stir here....

Well theres a story on HTV Teletext in relation to ntl newport - from what the story says its that their transfering all 250 jobs to Fujitsu....Sound like outsourcing to me!

Pierre 21-03-2004 13:28
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
This what I advised on the last thread. The call centre is being outsourced to Fujitsu.

The people who work there will now work for Fujitsu not ntl.

quadplay 21-03-2004 16:06
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Not now, but on May 1st.

paulyoung666 21-03-2004 16:12
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
so is this public knowledge to the ppl who work there then ???????????????

quadplay 21-03-2004 16:13
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Yes, people there were informed a couple of days ago and the information is now on the intranet.

paulyoung666 21-03-2004 16:14
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo
Yes, people there were informed a couple of days ago and the information is now on the intranet.



cheers :tu:

Busby 21-03-2004 20:33
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Ther goes my NTL associate offer :(

Derek 21-03-2004 21:32
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Ther goes my NTL associate offer :(
If your job gets outsourced do the company not have to offer an equivelant to any perks that you may have had?

It's just I used to work for a travel company and our jobs were switched to another firm but we managed to get compensation for loosing our subsidised travel.

Proppinupthebar 21-03-2004 21:41
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Are people being made redundant by ntl and then re-employed by Fujitsu?
If so are they getting redundancy?

quadplay 21-03-2004 21:43
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
No, the contracts are just being transferred to Fujitsu (as I understand it).

Proppinupthebar 21-03-2004 21:45
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo
No, the contracts are just being transferred to Fujitsu (as I understand it).
What about time in service, will that be transferred to Fujitsu?

Neil 21-03-2004 22:33
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proppinupthebar
What about time in service, will that be transferred to Fujitsu?
Yes-T.U.P.E laws will apply-I've got experience as I've been T.U.P.E'd across before.

Proppinupthebar 21-03-2004 22:41
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Yes-T.U.P.E laws will apply-I've got experience as I've been T.U.P.E'd across before.
Sounds painful!!

Glad it looks OK for those involved. Very best wishes, and good luck for the future.

eddie00001 21-03-2004 23:09
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Plus side for us could be greater opportunities as we'll now be working for a large multi-national corporation. Down side though is possible loss of associate offer (argh!!! no more cheap cable modem etc :cry: )

hairy_mick 21-03-2004 23:47
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
I work for ntl and I have lost my associate analogue benefit gets a letter sorry we a terminating your package and increasing your prices this is a gradual erosion of benefit and we will soon have to pay £3000 tax allowance for the van.

slimshady 22-03-2004 00:09
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
is this just the call centre or are other teams based @ newport affected - like the back office and ismc teams????? - will this be happening to swansea or cardiff people?

Neil 22-03-2004 00:15
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairy_mick
I work for ntl and I have lost my associate analogue benefit gets a letter sorry we a terminating your package and increasing your prices this is a gradual erosion of benefit and we will soon have to pay £3000 tax allowance for the van.
T.U.P.E laws should protect all of that Mick, basically everything should carry over.

carlingman 22-03-2004 00:23
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Does anyone know which part of Cleppa Park this is referring too.

Is this the Online House side that are doing business and other areas or are they referring to the other side with is VISP etc.

quadplay 22-03-2004 00:24
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
This only refers to Narrowband support (ntlworld, virgin.net, tesco.net, etc.). There are no plans to extend this to any other centres as far as I'm aware.

Busby 22-03-2004 00:29
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
So with this "T.U.P.E" law does my associate offer still stand after Fujitsu take over?

thanks

eddie00001 22-03-2004 00:41
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
So with this "T.U.P.E" law does my associate offer still stand after Fujitsu take over?

thanks
No, as its not in our contract.

carlingman 22-03-2004 00:45
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
So with this "T.U.P.E" law does my associate offer still stand after Fujitsu take over?

thanks
In a nutshell yes.

But if it is not possible they should supply an alternative compensation.

I.E. if they cannot give you the benefits via NTL they are obliged to give a cash alternative or other benefit so you do not loose out.

Some more info below -

Employees employed by the previous employer when the undertaking changes hands automatically become employees of the new employer on the same terms and conditions. It is as if their contracts of employment had originally been made with the new employer. Thus employees' continuity of employment is preserved, as are their terms and conditions of employment under their contracts of employment (except for certain occupational pension rights).

Transferred employees retain all the rights and obligations existing under their contracts of employment with the previous employer and these are transferred to the new employer.

:)

carlingman 22-03-2004 00:47
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Ooops to add to my last posting as eddie has since pointed out then if the associate offer is not mentioned in your current T&Cs then looks likely you will loose it.

My mistake sorry never read the full post.

ian@huth 22-03-2004 01:23
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
AFAIR benefits given to employees by custom and practice are regarded as being part of the contract of employment even though they are not mentioned in the written contract.


Was there anything in writing about the associates subsidised services? Were the subsidies available to all employees?

Neil 22-03-2004 08:27
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie00001
No, as its not in our contract.
How can it not be in your contract?? :confused:

eddie00001 22-03-2004 09:19
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
From what I remember its not written into the contract, just as a benefit which is separate. I'm pretty confident though that we'll still receive some sort of 'offer' after May

Neil 22-03-2004 09:23
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie00001
From what I remember its not written into the contract, just as a benefit which is separate. I'm pretty confident though that we'll still receive some sort of 'offer' after May
Trust ntl to give you something, but not put in your contract. :rolleyes:

How underhand, & unprofessional.

slimshady 22-03-2004 10:02
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
So are you definately all loosing your associate benefit?....

Does this mean you will have an office without large patches of coffee?

and Chairs that actually work?

and PC's that didn't belong to Noah?

:erm:

Neil 22-03-2004 10:06
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
To those who may be affected by this-TUPE can be a distressing time, make no bones about it, I know exactly how you feel.

Quote:
What the employees should know

The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) regulations implement a European directive in force in other EU countries. Tupe's aim is to protect employees' rights on the transfer of a business operation from one employer A to another B. On a transfer, employees of A:

Automatically become employees of B from the time of the transfer. They remain on the same terms and conditions of employment that they held with A

Can claim automatic unfair dismissal if dismissed by A or B for any reason connected with the transfer (either before or after it) if they have one year's continuous employment. If A or B can show that the reason for the transfer was redundancy, a dismissal will not be automatically unfair but must be fair and reasonable

Have the right to be informed and consulted about the transfer via trade unions or employee representatives of A. If these obligations are not carried out, and affected employees bring successful employment tribunal claims, they may be awarded up to 13 weeks' pay;

Can object to becoming employed by B so that they do not transfer and their contracts of employment terminate with A (without compensation).


Tupe applies to a transfer of a business operation from one organisation to another or on the outsourcing of a function where the operation is situated in the UK immediately before the transfer. It may also apply on a subsequent transfer to a third party - a second generation contracting out. Tupe is likely to apply where there is similarity between the activities carried out before and after the transfer, tangible assets (buildings or movable property) or intangible assets (goodwill or intellectual property) are transferred and employees transfer.

In situations where operations move offshore, UK employees of the transferring employer may also face redundancy. Where an employer proposes to make 20 or more employees redundant at a business site within three months, employees have the right to be consulted via trade unions or employee representatives at least one month before the first of the dismissals occurs. The financial compensation for inadequate consultation being carried out by a transferring employer is up to 90 days' pay.

On a Tupe transfer, although liability may have passed to employer B, complaints made to an employment tribunal should refer to both employers. It is for the tribunal to decide which, if either, is liable.

Kathryn Clapp is a solicitor at international law firm Taylor Wessing.
E-mail k.clapp@taylorwessing.com

What the employers should know
Traditionally, English law viewed an employment contract as a private matter between employer and employee. If the employer sold the business, the workforce could be made redundant. The new owner could offer to re-employ the
ex-employees on less favourable terms. Tupe established new principles:

The transfer of a business (or "undertaking" in Tupe's language) automatically transfers the employees to the new operator (but the employee has a right to "opt out", terminating his employment without right to compensation)

All of the employer's rights, duties, and liabilities in connection with the undertaking's employees' contracts transfer (except some pension rights) including the employees' outstanding claims against the old employer

Any employee dismissed "either before or after a relevant transfer" automatically has a claim for unfair dismissal "if the transfer or a reason connected with it is the reason or principal reason for his dismissal" (although there is a defence if the dismissal was for an "economic, technical or organisational reason")

Employers have a duty to inform and consult employees affected by a proposed transfer.


If a transfer is caught by Tupe, the new operator of the "undertaking" becomes responsible for the continuing costs and termination costs (including compensation for unfair dismissal) of any employees who are not retained. If Tupe does not apply, the costs remain with the existing employer. The regulations prohibit "contracting out", so the old and the new employers cannot stop the effects of Tupe where it applies even when they don't want the regulations to take effect (but they can privately agree to reimburse each other for any liabilities, for example by giving indemnities).

Tupe applies to voluntary transfers of an undertaking where there is an agreement between the old employer and the new employer (when a business is sold or an employer decides to outsource part of its requirements). It can also apply to involuntary transfers where there is no direct relationship between the old employer and the new employer, for example, where outsourced work is taken over by a new contractor.

Employers and contractors have to be particularly careful where any activity is carried out in a new way: where an existing function is outsourced to an external supplier; where a function currently outsourced is taken back in-house; or where a new contractor is appointed and the services of the old supplier dispensed with, for example on a competitive re-tender. In any of these cases Tupe is capable of applying.

No one factor is decisive in working out if Tupe applies. All the relevant circumstances must be considered. In the last few years the court judgements interpreting Tupe have been a little more consistent than in the past, and now it is usually possible to form a clear view whether Tupe applies in any given circumstances (and sometimes to carefully structure arrangements so that Tupe will not apply). Even so, a number of cases are referred to the European Courts for interpretation each year.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourc...F-8&q=tupe+law

Give me a shout if you need any help/info on TUPE etc. :)

orangebird 22-03-2004 12:51
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Trust ntl to give you something, but not put in your contract. :rolleyes:

How underhand, & unprofessional.
That's the word Neil - it's 'given' to us as a perk. It's not a contractual agreement because not all associates live on net. It's not underehand or unprofessional at all, it's a nice perk if you can get it. :)

To all you ntl'ers affected by this - The guys in IT and Site Services didn't get a bad deal when they went over to IBM and Profectus (respectively). Hope it all goes well for you :angel:

Pierre 22-03-2004 13:22
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
That's the word Neil - it's 'given' to us as a perk. It's not a contractual agreement because not all associates live on net. It's not underehand or unprofessional at all, it's a nice perk if you can get it. :)

To all you ntl'ers affected by this - The guys in IT and Site Services didn't get a bad deal when they went over to IBM and Profectus (respectively). Hope it all goes well for you :angel:
Except, of course, that profectus went into liquidation - causing much messing about and worry.

orangebird 22-03-2004 13:30
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Except, of course, that profectus went into liquidation - causing much messing about and worry.

That was profectus' problem, not ntl;'s. They don't have a crystal ball.....

Pierre 22-03-2004 13:42
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
That was profectus' problem, not ntl;'s. They don't have a crystal ball.....
I don't dispute that, but I was just replying to your post that advised the the people who were outsourced to Profectus and IBM got a good deal.

I would argue that the Profectus guys didn't... that's all.

Escapee 22-03-2004 13:51
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
That's the word Neil - it's 'given' to us as a perk. It's not a contractual agreement because not all associates live on net. It's not underehand or unprofessional at all, it's a nice perk if you can get it. :)

To all you ntl'ers affected by this - The guys in IT and Site Services didn't get a bad deal when they went over to IBM and Profectus (respectively). Hope it all goes well for you :angel:
It may of been given to some as a perk, but was part of the contract for people working for some companies that ntl took over!

This is always the big problem with takeovers, the same happened with the perk on free copmpany car fuel. I had it written in my original contract along with some other senior people in the company that I worked for which got taken over by ntl. What happened is they took it out of my contract because they said it was a free perk to all employees with a car anyway.

I made my concerns pointing out that in time they would do away with it and I would be worse off, as usuall with ntl's actions I was not far wrong as the perk was done away with shortly after I left ntl.

I am just giving it as a warning to anyone who finds themselves in a similar position. :shocked:

slimshady 22-03-2004 15:51
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Hmm, sounds to me - with ntl your better off out than in !!!!

orangebird 22-03-2004 16:00
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady
Hmm, sounds to me - with ntl your better off out than in !!!!

That depends on the dept you work for and what benefits/perks you would like from a company. ntl aren't the best employers in the world by a long shot, but their benefits/perks/discounts etc they offer would take some beating.

Neil 22-03-2004 19:40
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
That's the word Neil - it's 'given' to us as a perk. It's not a contractual agreement because not all associates live on net. It's not underehand or unprofessional at all, it's a nice perk if you can get it. :)
Really?

You think that offering staff a perk, but not putting anything in writing is professional do you? :erm:

There is no way that is professional, & I 'll bet the people who will now be losing that perk & having to pay for it due to ntl's unprofessionalism & lack of documentation would agree with me as if ntl had documented it like any other professional company, then all the peeps who are getting TUPE'd across would still be getting their perk. :angel:

Neil 23-03-2004 07:44
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Some 'facts'....

Quote:

STATEMENT

Since the formation of the new ntl: home and COBI teams earlier this
year, we have continued to review how each part of the business works.

With this in mind we are announcing some changes to the ntl: home Internet
team today, which will become effective from 22 March 2004.

What is being announced today?

The current ntl: home Internet team is being restructured to fit with
the new ntl: home and COBI structure.

This means some of the current functions may also move into Networks and
Group IT.

What is changing?

Wholesale Internet managed by Paul Rusby, moves to Networks.
Wholesale has closer synergies with the Networks wholesale group.

Retail Internet remains in ntl: home and will be managed by Bill
Goodland.

Retain our focus on the residential side of our Internet business

The Operations & Continuous Improvement team managed by Phil Langley,
which currently sits in Retail, will move to COBI reporting to Mark Upton.

COBI's focus is on customer service improvement and this team forms part
of that.

Our Newport Narrowband Call Centre will be outsourced to Fujitsu - all
our associates will transfer to Fujitsu from 01 May 2004. The relationship
between Fujitsu and ntl will be managed through COBI.

This specialist call centre services our Virgin, Tesco, Which and ntlworld
customers. Fujitsu are leaders in the dial up internet call centre management field therefore, in order to deliver the level of service our customers require we are putting this aspect of our business in their hands.

What happens next?

Today our associates are being briefed on the changes above. The changes
will take place from 22 March 2004, with the exception of the transfer
of the Newport Call Centre, which takes place from 01 May 2004.

Please brief your teams on the changes outlined above

Many thanks


Aizad

Quote:
Q&A

What are the changes being introduced?

Ntlworld dial-up, Tesco. Virgin, Which support will be serviced by
Fujitsu.

Fujitsu are a specialist provider of dial up technical support centre
services and will work in conjunction with COBI.

When will the change become effective?

Newport Associates are being briefed today, with the changes effective
on 1st May 2004, in terms of their employer.

What does this mean for ntl's customers?

There will be no change to the current customer experience and services
provided via a Newport.

If you should receive a call from a dial-up customer, existing processes
still apply.

What does this mean for Newport Associates?

Newport Associates will remain at Newport, providing the services to our
customers, as is the case today, however from 1st May our colleagues
will commence their employment with Fujitsu, under what is referred to as a TUPE process.

What does TUPE mean?

Quite simply, TUPE is government legislation, which ensure that
employee's terms and conditions are protected, in the event of transfer to another organisation.

It stands for Transfer of Undertaking (Protection of Employment).

What does this mean for TSB?

TSB moved into the COBI structure in February '04, and this remains
unchanged.

I've taken a call from the local press, what should I do?

You should simply direct them to Malcolm Padley's office on 02077464094
for
External PR..

slimshady 23-03-2004 10:10
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
hmm - so their moving Wholesale Internet /again/

It started out as like Internet back in the days of
Cable Online then later NTL Internet and then they put it in Business
then they took it out and put it in Home and now its going under Networks....

they really do like reorganisations don't they - is it just so they can pay someone to keep redrawing the organisation chart :p

orangebird 23-03-2004 11:30
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Really?

You think that offering staff a perk, but not putting anything in writing is professional do you? :erm:

There is no way that is professional, & I 'll bet the people who will now be losing that perk & having to pay for it due to ntl's unprofessionalism & lack of documentation would agree with me as if ntl had documented it like any other professional company, then all the peeps who are getting TUPE'd across would still be getting their perk. :angel:

It IS in writing Neil (on the internal intranet to be precise). Give over. You're starting to sound really bitter about it all. You weren't so fussed about it being professional & documented when you were getting the perks, were you.....

It's a perk for ntl employees. If you work for Fujitsu, you get their perks instead. :angel:

Neil 23-03-2004 11:36
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
It IS in writing Neil (on the internal intranet to be precise).
Oh that's ok then-I'll bet all those people losing their free TV etc will breath a sigh of relief (not)

Quote:
Give over. You're starting to sound really bitter about it all. You weren't so fussed about it being professional & documented when you were getting the perks, were you.....
That's because I got it in writing. :rolleyes:

Quote:
It's a perk for ntl employees. If you work for Fujitsu, you get their perks instead. :angel:
That's not how TUPE works I'm afraid-you should be a bit more informed before you make sweeping statements like that. ;)

*Passes OB a cloth to wipe her rose tinted specs* :angel:

It's very simple-because of ntl's failure to (properly) document an associates benefit (it is 100% ntl's fault & no one else's here), those people affected by the Fujitsu scenario now have to start paying for their TV/phone line etc.

Sound fair to you? :nono:

Simple sum up-if ntl had documented it properly, then their affected staff would not be worse off.

Surely even you can't defend ntl's obvious failure to document something properly that has now resulted in staff being financially worse off??? :erm:

Nemesis 23-03-2004 11:45
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
.... erm .....

Aren't we talking about "perks" of the job ...

These come and go and are never guaranteed, with any job. It's not just NTL that do this type of thing, many others do it too. That's life .. I really don't see this as and NTL thing ... and anyway, are the undocumented perks really why they took the job ?????

orangebird 23-03-2004 11:56
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Oh that's ok then-I'll bet all those people losing their free TV etc will breath a sigh of relief (not)
They're losing a perk that comes with working at ntl. Not a limb...:rolleyes:



Quote:
That's because I got it in writing. :rolleyes:
An A4 piece of paper.....

Quote:
That's not how TUPE works I'm afraid-you should be a bit more informed before you make sweeping statements like that. ;)

*Passes OB a cloth to wipe her rose tinted specs* :angel:
I know how TUPE works Neil, thank you. ntl have gone through the process on a large scale twice before, and did it properly then. I'm sure they'll do the same this time too.

In the meantime, you can leave you cloth where the sun doesn't shine, I don't need it and you of all people should know that.

Quote:
It's very simple-because of ntl's failure to (properly) document an associates benefit (it is 100% ntl's fault & no one else's here), those people affected by the Fujitsu scenario now have to start paying for their TV/phone line etc.

Sound fair to you? :nono:
Yes, it is bloody fair!!!!

To start with, not every associate is on-net at ntl, therefore it CAN'T go into the t&c's otherwise there would be different t&c's all over the place which is bad practice for any company, let alone a company the size and diversity of ntls. It's not a failure to document at all. Why don't you wait and see until the deal is done before spouting off like this? Maybe other perks/benefits/discounts that could be available by working for Fujitsu instead could outweigh the loss of the associate package?

Quote:
Simple sum up-if ntl had documented it properly, then their affected staff would not be worse off.
As above, why don't you wait and see if they are going to be worse off first? Or is that just too reasonable and not anti-ntl enough for you to deal with?

Quote:
Surely even you can't defend ntl's obvious failure to document something properly that has now resulted in staff being financially worse off??? :erm:

Again, as my two responses above. :)

Neil 23-03-2004 11:57
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
.... erm .....

Aren't we talking about "perks" of the job ...
They are benefits that are offered to ntl employees that live in an ntl area (obviously staff that don't can't get them anyway)

Quote:
These come and go and are never guaranteed, with any job. It's not just NTL that do this type of thing, many others do it too. That's life .. I really don't see this as and NTL thing ...
They are important enought to be on the Intranet.

Quote:
and anyway, are the undocumented perks really why they took the job ?????
Is that really the point here? (no)

The point is that ntl's failure to document something properly, has led to some of their staff losing that benefit when they needn't have.

I have lost benefits under TUPE, so I know exactly what I am talking about.

orangebird 23-03-2004 12:02
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
They are benefits that are offered to ntl employees that live in an ntl area (obviously staff that don't can't get them anyway)



They are important enought to be on the Intranet.



Is that really the point here? (no)

The point is that ntl's failure to document something properly, has led to some of their staff losing that benefit when they needn't have.

I have lost benefits under TUPE, so I know exactly what I am talking about.

Neil, you seem more upset than the ntl employees about this..... :erm:

orangebird 23-03-2004 12:07
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
They are benefits that are offered to ntl employees that live in an ntl area (obviously staff that don't can't get them anyway)
No, they're associate offers.

Nemesis 23-03-2004 12:08
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
They are benefits that are offered to ntl employees that live in an ntl area (obviously staff that don't can't get them anyway)
So not available to all, and would therefore not be an eligible part of a contract. People can move, terms and conditions can change, the perks can be added to and removed. Not a contractual obligation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
They are important enought to be on the Intranet.
What is an intranet?

An intranet is a private network operating on a web server within your company.

Your company's manuals, HR information, and any other internal information can be organized on an internal web site that operates like an Internet site - without necessarily being connected to the Internet.

Content is accessed by employees using browser software such as Microsoft Internet ExplorerÂÂÂÂ ® or Netscape NavigatorÂÂÂà ‚®. All information contained and distributed on an intranet is secured by a firewall, which limits access to users inside your company.

An intranet allows organizations to communicate to employees internally and at branch offices easily and accurately.


Therefore many things are important enough to be communicated on the Intranet, the benefits to certain employess, being one

Quote:
Is that really the point here? (no)

The point is that ntl's failure to document something properly, has led to some of their staff losing that benefit when they needn't have.
Their employer has changed, therefore the benefits change or are lost, this has happened to me twice over the last year ...

These 'benefits' are still perks of the job, they are documented, and are not available to all anyway, their employer has changed, therefore the 'benefits' offered by the previous company are no longer relevant.

Neil 23-03-2004 12:09
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
No, they're associate offers.
And the difference is....? :shrug:

orangebird 23-03-2004 12:18
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
And the difference is....? :shrug:
Quick definitions (offer)


noun: something offered (as a proposal or bid) (Example: "Noteworthy new offerings for investors included several index funds")
noun: the verbal act of offering (Example: "A generous offer of assistance")
noun: a usually brief attempt
verb: produce or introduce on the stage (Example: "The Shakespeare Company is offering `King Lear' this month")
verb: make available or accessible, provide or furnish (Example: "The conference center offers a health spa")
verb: present for acceptance or rejection (Example: "She offered us all a cold drink")
verb: make available for sale (Example: "The stores are offering specials on sweaters this week")
verb: offer verbally (Example: "He offered his sympathy")
verb: propose a payment (Example: "The Swiss dealer offered $2 million for the painting")
verb: present as an act of worship (Example: "Offer prayers to the gods")
verb: put forward for consideration (Example: "He offered his opinion")
verb: threaten to do something (Example: "I offered to leave the committee if they did not accept my proposal")
verb: make available; provide (Example: "The bank offers a good deal on new mortgages")
verb: agree freely (Example: "I offered to help with the dishes but the hostess would not hear of it")
verb: mount or put up (Example: "Offer resistance")
verb: ask (someone) to marry you


Quick definitions (benefit)


noun: something that aids or promotes well-being
noun: a performance to raise money for a charitable cause
noun: financial assistance in time of need
verb: be beneficial for
verb: derive a benefit from

Neil 23-03-2004 12:19
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
So not available to all, and would therefore not be an eligible part of a contract. People can move, terms and conditions can change, the perks can be added to and removed. Not a contractual obligation.
Yes available to all (associates that live in a cabled area)

Quote:
<snip>
I know what an intranet is. ;)

Quote:
Therefore many things are important enough to be communicated on the Intranet, the benefits to certain employess, being one
Agreed.

Quote:
Their employer has changed, therefore the benefits change or are lost
Not at all, those benefits should be carried across under TUPE.

Quote:
this has happened to me twice over the last year ...
I'm sorry to hear that, I've been there too.

Quote:
These 'benefits' are still perks of the job
'Perks' that should still have been properly documented to protect all parties.

Quote:
they are documented, and are not available to all anyway,
The availability if them is not relevant, if you didn't have it before TUPE, you won't have it after TUPE.

Quote:
their employer has changed, therefore the 'benefits' offered by the previous company are no longer relevant.
Not at all, in fact, quite the opposite.

If ntl had documented them properly-the 'benefits offered by the previous company' would be carried over into Fujitsu.

Neil 23-03-2004 12:25
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
Quick definitions (offer)

verb: make available; provide (Example: "The bank offers a good deal on new mortgages")
or 'ntl offered free cable TV & telephone line rental to associates'?

Quote:
Quick definitions (benefit)

verb: derive a benefit from
Which applied to ntl staff (but not to those transferring to Fujitsu) ;)

Nemesis 23-03-2004 12:26
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I know what an intranet is. ;)
I thought you might ;) :)

Quote:
Not at all, those benefits should be carried across under TUPE.
I've just re-read the TUPE document you posted ..... exactly where does it mention the transfer of the "benefits", "offers", or "perks".

It's more about the contract of employment, and the transfer of the IP, etc. It's there to protect the employee from being mismanaged or abused.

Perks are just that ... perks ... NO company will add them to it's Contract of employment.

orangebird 23-03-2004 12:29
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
I thought you might ;) :)

I've just re-read the TUPE document you posted ..... exactly where does it mention the transfer of the "benefits", "offers", or "perks".

It's more about the contract of employment, and the transfer of the IP, etc. It's there to protect the employee from being mismanaged or abused.

Perks are just that ... perks ... NO company will add them to it's Contract of employment.
:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

Proppinupthebar 23-03-2004 12:31
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
New colours. Old thinking.

Neil 23-03-2004 12:37
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
I thought you might ;) :)

I've just re-read the TUPE document you posted ..... exactly where does it mention the transfer of the "benefits", "offers", or "perks".

It's more about the contract of employment, and the transfer of the IP, etc. It's there to protect the employee from being mismanaged or abused.

Perks are just that ... perks ... NO company will add them to it's Contract of employment.
I think you may have misunderstood me :angel: (Or maybe I'm not being clear :erm: )

My point is not about what TUPE entitles you to, but the way in which ntl have documented (or rather haven't) a benefit that their staff get, & now those peeps will lose that benefit when they shouldn't IMO. :(

At the end of the day, a pension contribution is no more than a benefit/perk that the company pays outside of your normal 'wage', & if that payment wasn't getting carried across into Fujitsu because of poor documentation, would that make it any different? (Not in my eyes)

Pierre 23-03-2004 12:39
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
When I used to work for cableTel we used to get free CATV as you might imagine, but also the people who lived "off-Net" could also get Sky or another CATV provider paid for by the company.

Then when the new T&Cs came out in 2001 it was written out. Might not sound much but it worked out to £420 per year.

The people who work for ntl but don't live in an ntl area are financially worse off than those on-net. They have promised a replacement scheme for the past 3 years but are still yet to come up with anything.

orangebird 23-03-2004 12:43
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
When I used to work for cableTel we used to get free CATV as you might imagine, but also the people who lived "off-Net" could also get Sky or another CATV provider paid for by the company.

Then when the new T&Cs came out in 2001 it was written out. Might not sound much but it worked out to £420 per year.

The people who work for ntl but don't live in an ntl area are financially worse off than those on-net. They have promised a replacement scheme for the past 3 years but are still yet to come up with anything.

All true. And for 4 out of the 6 years I have worked for them, I've been off net, so I can see both sides.

ntl cannot afford to subsidise sky or the like packages for those off net at the moment.

orangebird 23-03-2004 12:44
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I think you may have misunderstood me :angel: (Or maybe I'm not being clear :erm: )

My point is not about what TUPE entitles you to, but the way in which ntl have documented (or rather haven't) a benefit that their staff get, & now those peeps will lose that benefit when they shouldn't IMO. :(

At the end of the day, a pension contribution is no more than a benefit/perk that the company pays outside of your normal 'wage', & if that payment wasn't getting carried across into Fujitsu because of poor documentation, would that make it any different? (Not in my eyes)

Neil, a pension is far more important than cheap digi tv and bb. :rolleyes:

Nemesis 23-03-2004 12:45
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
At the end of the day, a pension contribution is no more than a benefit/perk that the company pays outside of your normal 'wage', & if that payment wasn't getting carried across into Fujitsu because of poor documentation, would that make it any different? (Not in my eyes)
Quite true, it is a benefit/perk, and most companies offer it (at least decent ones :mad: ). However, some specific perks offered by companies during transfer will be lost, because they are specific to the previous company.

It's like being offered free beer when working for a Pub, that changes to an alcohol free Restaurant, the Pension is a standard perk, the beer would be dropped in favour of something new. It's quite possible that Fujitsu have a range of similar "own brand" perks that will be offered to the new employees.

It is unreasonable for NTL to continue to supply and pay for a perk for someone who is no longer an employee, the same can be said for any company.


EDIT: Just a note .... Perks are offered, including pensions, but the employee doesn't have to take any of them ... it's a personal choice. The contract of Employment is signed by both parties and is lwafully binding.

orangebird 23-03-2004 12:46
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
Quite true, it is a benefit/perk, and most companies offer it (at least decent ones :mad: ). However, some specific perks offered by companies during transfer will be lost, because they are specific to the previous company.

It's like being offered free beer when working for a Pub, that changes to an alcohol free Restaurant, the Pension is a standard perk, the beer would be dropped in favour of something new. It's quite possible that Fujitsu have a range of similar "own brand" perks that will be offered to the new employees.

It is unreasonable for NTL to continue to supply and pay for a perk for someone who is no longer an employee, the same can be said for any company.
:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

Neil 23-03-2004 12:55
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
Quite true, it is a benefit/perk, and most companies offer it (at least decent ones :mad: ). However, some specific perks offered by companies during transfer will be lost, because they are specific to the previous company.
Am I the only one who can see my point here? :erm:

They wouldn't be 'lost' if ntl had documented them properly-fact.

Quote:
It's like being offered free beer when working for a Pub, that changes to an alcohol free Restaurant, the Pension is a standard perk, the beer would be dropped in favour of something new. It's quite possible that Fujitsu have a range of similar "own brand" perks that will be offered to the new employees.
Not if the original employer (Pub) had documented it properly.

Quote:
It is unreasonable for NTL to continue to supply and pay for a perk for someone who is no longer an employee, the same can be said for any company.[/b]
Jeez-ntl wouldn't have to pay for it. Fujitsu would have to pick up the cost, so that the staff member still had the same benefits as he/she did prior to TUPE.

Quote:
EDIT: Just a note .... Perks are offered, including pensions, but the employee doesn't have to take any of them ... it's a personal choice. The contract of Employment is signed by both parties and is lwafully binding.
Do any ntl employees have a copy of their contract to hand? Does it mention the 'associate package'?

orangebird 23-03-2004 13:02
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Am I the only one who can see my point here? :erm:

They wouldn't be 'lost' if ntl had documented them properly-fact.

Neil, ntl didn't fail to do anything properly. No-one else can see your point because you're the only one who believes it.....

The associate deal is a perk whilst you work for ntl. Don't work for ntl? Don't get the perk. Why can't you accept that? :shrug:

Stuartbe 23-03-2004 13:09
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
I can see what Neil is saying... If the perk or package (whatever you want to call it) had been written into the job description or contract then the new company would have to honor it....

I think that Neil is feeling apathy for the staff who are now going to have to shell out extra dosh that they would not have to if NLT had written it into the contract.

orangebird 23-03-2004 13:11
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartbe
I can see what Neil is saying... If the perk or package (whatever you want to call it) had been written into the job description or contract then the new company would have to honor it....

I think that Neil is feeling apathy for the staff who are now going to have to shell out extra dosh that they may not have had to.
I feel sorry for them too Stuart, absolutely. But Neil appears hellbent on slating ntl for something bad that they actually haven't done...... :erm:

It's not in the job description or your contract.

Neil 23-03-2004 13:17
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartbe
I can see what Neil is saying... If the perk or package (whatever you want to call it) had been written into the job description or contract then the new company would have to honor it....

I think that Neil is feeling apathy for the staff who are now going to have to shell out extra dosh that they would not have to if NLT had written it into the contract.
Hallelulah!

Thank you Stu-that is exactly the point that I have been making.

orangebird 23-03-2004 13:18
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Hallelulah!

Thank you Stu-that is exactly the point that I have been making.

What, that you feel sorry for them???? :confused:

Neil 23-03-2004 13:21
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
What, that you feel sorry for them???? :confused:
YES

Jesus H Chr1st-how hard can it really be to understand? :cry:

In my view ntl have caused these employees who are transferring to Fujitsu to be out of pocket-& that is exactly what TUPE is there to protect, but it can't protect what ntl has not documented.

*Sigh*

orangebird 23-03-2004 13:33
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
YES

Jesus H Chr1st-how hard can it really be to understand? :cry:

In my view ntl have caused these employees who are transferring to Fujitsu to be out of pocket-& that is exactly what TUPE is there to protect, but it can't protect what ntl has not documented.

*Sigh*
Neil, the way you're behaving recently, I wouldn't be surprised if you secretly blamed ntl for 9/11, the plague and the Apollo 13's failed mission.

ntl did not forsee outsourcing depts, so how could they write that kind of clause in in the first place? How can ntl write a clause stating that any company that may in the future take over operations on an outsource basis should provide the associates with the same perks as ntl provide?? Especially without the companies that they're being outsourced to agreeing (because ntl didn't know at the time)???? Impossible to protect what you can't forsee Neil, I think you're being entirely unreasonable.. :rolleyes:

You want a crusade that's worth while, how about you lobby Fujitsu to provide all the associates in question with digi tv....

Neil 23-03-2004 13:41
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
Neil, the way you're behaving recently, I wouldn't be surprised if you secretly blamed ntl for 9/11, the plague and the Apollo 13's failed mission.

ntl did not forsee outsourcing depts, so how could they write that kind of clause in in the first place? How can ntl write a clause stating that any company that may in the future take over operations on an outsource basis should provide the associates with the same perks as ntl provide?? Especially without the companies that they're being outsourced to agreeing (because ntl didn't know at the time)???? Impossible to protect what you can't forsee Neil, I think you're being entirely unreasonable.. :rolleyes:

You want a crusade that's worth while, how about you lobby Fujitsu to provide all the associates in question with digi tv....
You are totally missing the point in your mission to vindicate ntl (for a change :rolleyes: )

I will say it again.......

If ntl had documented it properly in the first place (nothing to do with seeing into the future, it's about doint things properly), then the associates who are transferring to Fujitsu would not be losing their free TV/phone.

It really is very simple-the reason that the TUPE folks will lose out is because of ntl's inability to document their staff's benefits in a proper fashion.

Comprendez? ;)

Nemesis 23-03-2004 13:47
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
You are totally missing the point in your mission to vindicate ntl (for a change :rolleyes: )

I will say it again.......

If ntl had documented it properly in the first place (nothing to do with seeing into the future, it's about doint things properly), then the associates who are transferring to Fujitsu would not be losing their free TV/phone.

It really is very simple-the reason that the TUPE folks will lose out is because of ntl's inability to document their staff's benefits in a proper fashion.
ok Pleeeeeaaaaasssseeee stop the personal vendettas ...

I understand what you are saying Neil, BUT I cannot honestly believe that ANY company out there will actually build the Perks into a binding contract. I've worked for many organisations, both big and small, the benefits etc are extras on top of the contract that can be withdrawn and changed at any time at the companies discretion. The contract can't. It would be shortsighted and unworkable for the benefits to be built in as part of the contract, from the point of view of the employer.

This isn't an NTL thing, and although I feel for the NTL staff, this happens everywhere .... it's not NTL specific.

Can you honestly tell me that the "free Gym membership" you get in some companies will automatically be transferred to a new owner in times of trouble. I doubt it, the Job is the most important thing.

orangebird 23-03-2004 13:48
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
You are totally missing the point in your mission to vindicate ntl (for a change :rolleyes: )

I will say it again.......

If ntl had documented it properly in the first place (nothing to do with seeing into the future, it's about doint things properly), then the associates who are transferring to Fujitsu would not be losing their free TV/phone.

It really is very simple-the reason that the TUPE folks will lose out is because of ntl's inability to document their staff's benefits in a proper fashion.

Comprendez? ;)

ntl did do it properly Neil. Why can't you accept that? The reason the TUPE folk will lose out is because they don't work for ntl anymore!!!!

orangebird 23-03-2004 13:49
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
ok Pleeeeeaaaaasssseeee stop the personal vendettas ...

I understand what you are saying Neil, BUT I cannot honestly believe that ANY company out there will actually build the Perks into a binding contract. I've worked for many organisations, both big and small, the benefits etc are extras on top of the contract that can be withdrawn and changed at any time at the companies discretion. The contract can't. It would be shortsighted and unworkable for the benefits to be built in as part of the contract, from the point of view of the employer.

This isn't an NTL thing, and although I feel for the NTL staff, this happens everywhere .... it's not NTL specific.

Can you honestly tell me that the "free Gym membership" you get in some companies will automatically be transferred to a new owner in times of trouble. I doubt it, the Job is the most important thing.
:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

poolking 23-03-2004 14:08
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
ntl did do it properly Neil. Why can't you accept that? The reason the TUPE folk will lose out is because they don't work for ntl anymore!!!!
Wow I can read that font!! ;)

Stuartbe 23-03-2004 14:12
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird
they don't work for ntl anymore!!!!
Pardon ? I did not quite here that - Getting a bit deaf in my old age :D

orangebird 23-03-2004 14:15
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartbe
Pardon ? I did not quite here that - Getting a bit deaf in my old age :D

Sorry for the font size, but patience never has been an evident virtue of mine, nor do I suffer fools very gladly....

:)

scrotnig 23-03-2004 14:21
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Hallelulah!

Thank you Stu-that is exactly the point that I have been making.
I agree with Neil on this occasion.

slimshady 23-03-2004 14:23
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
sounds like typical ntl - no today love

Neil 23-03-2004 14:49
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here....

1) All companies offer discounts/perks/benefits to staff.

2) All companies should discount all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties.

3) If documented correctly by a company, in the case of an outsourcing deal, when TUPE is applied, those staff will retain all those (properly documented) benefits/perks/discounts.

4) If not documented properly by a company, then the staff who will be outsourced will lose their benefits.

What part of this am I not making clear? :shrug:

OB/Nem, I suggest that you tell all the employees who are bing outsourced that there's a perfectly good reason that they will now lose those discounts/perks/benefits, even though they are being TUPE'd, but everything that is documented will be honoured by their new employers (Fujitsu)

I think OB & Nem-sorry, but you are both missing the point.

TUPE is there to protect employees in the event of an outsource, in these people's case they will lose their freebies because ntl did not write it into their contracts-fact.

Fujitsu will inherit the employees current salary/holiday entitlement/length of service, etc (assuming they have been properly documented!)

So.....

2 questions......

Why should they lose their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Why are they losing their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Family pack=£2 8.00 per month (currently!)=ÂÂà ‚£336.00 per year that these employees will be worse off through no fault of their own.

You may think that that 'is life', I do not happen to agree.

orangebird 23-03-2004 15:05
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here....

1) All companies offer discounts/perks/benefits to staff.
No they don't Neil.

Quote:
2) All companies should discount all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties.
As far as your concerned maybe....

Quote:
3) If documented correctly by a company, in the case of an outsourcing deal, when TUPE is applied, those staff will retain all those (properly documented) benefits/perks/discounts.
How exactly do you retain a perk or benefit offered by a company you don't work for? :confused:

Quote:
4) If not documented properly by a company, then the staff who will be outsourced will lose their benefits.

Yes. And? :shrug:

Quote:
What part of this am I not making clear? :shrug:
It's all clear Neil, just entirely unrealistic

Quote:
OB/Nem, I suggest that you tell all the employees who are bing outsourced that there's a perfectly good reason that they will now lose those discounts/perks/benefits, even though they are being TUPE'd, but everything that is documented will be honoured by their new employers (Fujitsu)
Neil, there are associates employed by ntl that don't receive the same perks (ie digi services) as other associates still employed by ntl purely because of the on/off-net situation. Why should employees who no longer work for ntl get the perks that those that still work for ntl cannot get for one reason or another?


Quote:
I think OB & Nem-sorry, but you are both missing the point.
No, I'm totally clear on what you're saying Neil - I just think it's a crock.

Quote:
TUPE is there to protect employees in the event of an outsource, in these people's case they will lose their freebies because ntl did not write it into their contracts-fact.
TUPE is there to make sure that the employees contractual rights belonging to their job are not lost or compromised. A perk is not a right. It's as it says, A PERK. How many time does it have to be explained to you why the perks are not written into the contract? Why do you ignore any post that might give reasonable and acceptable explanation to your questions?

Quote:
Fujitsu will inherit the employees current salary/holiday entitlement/length of service, etc (assuming they have been properly documented!)
Correct.

Quote:
So.....

2 questions......

Why should they lose their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Why are they losing their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?
For the last time - BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE EMPLOYED BY NTL TO RECEIVE THESE - AND THEY'RE A PERK, NOT A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT!!!!!

Quote:
Family pack=£2 8.00 per month (currently!)=ÂÂà ‚£336.00 per year that these employees will be worse off through no fault of their own.

You may think that that 'is life', I do not happen to agree.
And as I said earlier, the deal is not done yet - what the TUPE guys might be worse off with in one hand could be compensated in another. But I guess that possiblility doesn't suit your current agenda of sl4gging ntl off at every opportunity, does it? :)

Question for you - if that's how YOU think it should be, answer me this question - how would you deal with the salaries as far as receiving taxable benefits go?

Do you know of any legal, best practice way to tax an associates salary because of a benefit that the company who pays their salary doesn't provide????.....

Neil 23-03-2004 15:32
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here....

1) All companies offer discounts/perks/benefits to staff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
No they don't Neil.
Yes they do-ever worked for a company that didn't give it's staff a dickount of some sort on it's given product?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
2) All companies should discount all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
As far as your concerned maybe....
My bad-that should have read-"All companies should document all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties-it's still a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
3) If documented correctly by a company, in the case of an outsourcing deal, when TUPE is applied, those staff will retain all those (properly documented) benefits/perks/discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
How exactly do you retain a perk or benefit offered by a company you don't work for? :confused:
By documenting it properly in the first instance of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
4) If not documented properly by a company, then the staff who will be outsourced will lose their benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
Yes. And? :shrug:
Ok-I will say it again....

The fact is that ntl have not protected their staff by documenting their accociate package properly, & now those people being outsourced will lose that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
What part of this am I not making clear? :shrug:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
It's all clear Neil, just entirely unrealistic
Unrealistic to expect ntl to protect the interests of their staff you mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
OB/Nem, I suggest that you tell all the employees who are bing outsourced that there's a perfectly good reason that they will now lose those discounts/perks/benefits, even though they are being TUPE'd, but everything that is documented will be honoured by their new employers (Fujitsu)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
Neil, there are associates employed by ntl that don't receive the same perks (ie digi services) as other associates still employed by ntl purely because of the on/off-net situation.
Not relevant, you cannot lose out on what you never had to start with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
Why should employees who no longer work for ntl get the perks that those that still work for ntl cannot get for one reason or another?
Becasue ntl should have documented their associate package correctly, that's why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
]I think OB & Nem-sorry, but you are both missing the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
No, I'm totally clear on what you're saying Neil - I just think it's a crock.
You are entitled to your opinion-but that's what it is-an opinion, mine is a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
TUPE is there to protect employees in the event of an outsource, in these people's case they will lose their freebies because ntl did not write it into their contracts-fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
UPE is there to make sure that the employees contractual rights belonging to their job are not lost or compromised.
Why was it not written into their contracts if it being offered to them as part of their overall package then??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
A perk is not a right. It's as it says, A PERK. How many time does it have to be explained to you why the perks are not written into the contract? Why do you ignore any post that might give reasonable and acceptable explanation to your questions?
But it is offered to staff as part of their overall package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Fujitsu will inherit the employees current salary/holiday entitlement/length of service, etc (assuming they have been properly documented!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
Correct.
I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
So.....

2 questions......

Why should they lose their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Why are they losing their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
For the last time - BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE EMPLOYED BY NTL TO RECEIVE THESE - AND THEY'RE A PERK, NOT A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT!!!!!
That's where you are mistaken-When I used to work for IBM, I received certain benefits that the company I was TUPE'd into didn't/doesn't offer, but I still get these benefits as they were part OF TUPE.

So no-you don't have to work for a particular company to receive previous benefits where TUPE is concerned, you are quite simply-mistaken. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Family pack=£2 8.00 per month (currently!)=ÂÂà ‚£336.00 per year that these employees will be worse off through no fault of their own.

You may think that that 'is life', I do not happen to agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
And as I said earlier, the deal is not done yet - what the TUPE guys might be worse off with in one hand could be compensated in another.
That may be, but whatever happens, it looks like they will lose their assocaite package whgich is not fair. :nono:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
But I guess that possiblility doesn't suit your current agenda of sl4gging ntl off at every opportunity, does it? :)
No more than it suits your current/past agenda of defending them at every opportunity, no. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
Question for you - if that's how YOU think it should be, answer me this question - how would you deal with the salaries as far as receiving taxable benefits go?
They should (as I have been saying from the start0 :rolleyes: ) have all been documented in a professional manner, if they had-we wouldn't be having this 'conversation'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangebird
Do you know of any legal, best practice way to tax an associates salary because of a benefit that the company who pays their salary doesn't provide????.....
Does the taxman know about the associate package? (He knew about mine as I told him, although Nicola Irvine from ntl actually told us that ntl wouldn't be disclosing it to the taxman-go figure. :dozey:

If you pay tax on it (I'm sure you do), then you are entitled to keep it under TUPE, but it doesn't look like people will be able to keep it under TUPE, because of the way ntl documented it (or didn't)

But it's on the Intranet, so that's ok. :angel:

orangebird 23-03-2004 15:41
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Yes they do-ever worked for a company that didn't give it's staff a dickount of some sort on it's given product?





My bad-that should have read-"All companies should document all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties-it's still a fact.





By documenting it properly in the first instance of course.






Ok-I will say it again....

The fact is that ntl have not protected their staff by documenting their accociate package properly, & now those people being outsourced will lose that.





Unrealistic to expect ntl to protect the interests of their staff you mean?





Not relevant, you cannot lose out on what you never had to start with.



Becasue ntl should have documented their associate package correctly, that's why.





You are entitled to your opinion-but that's what it is-an opinion, mine is a fact.





Why was it not written into their contracts if it being offered to them as part of their overall package then??



But it is offered to staff as part of their overall package.





I know.





That's where you are mistaken-When I used to work for IBM, I received certain benefits that the company I was TUPE'd into didn't/doesn't offer, but I still get these benefits as they were part OF TUPE.

So no-you don't have to work for a particular company to receive previous benefits where TUPE is concerned, you are quite simply-mistaken. :)





That may be, but whatever happens, it looks like they will lose their assocaite package whgich is not fair. :nono:



No more than it suits your current/past agenda of defending them at every opportunity, no. :)



They should (as I have been saying from the start0 :rolleyes: ) have all been documented in a professional manner, if they had-we wouldn't be having this 'conversation'



Does the taxman know about the associate package? (He knew about mine as I told him, although Nicola Irvine from ntl actually told us that ntl wouldn't be disclosing it to the taxman-go figure. :dozey:

If you pay tax on it (I'm sure you do), then you are entitled to keep it under TUPE, but it doesn't look like people will be able to keep it under TUPE, because of the way ntl documented it (or didn't)

But it's on the Intranet, so that's ok. :angel:

:rolleyes:

Nice evasion of all my questions Neil. So, how would you propose it works then?

edit actually, don't bother. Am bored. It's like UDT back in the place....

Just one thing - the associate package is a perk, not a benefit. Get over it. :)

ian@huth 23-03-2004 15:46
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
I think that there are a lot of assumptions being made about what will happen regarding these "perks". The thing to do is for someone to ask the question of the people that matter before the changeover takes place. A good old saying that is worth remembering is "if you don't ask , you don't get".

There have been a number of words bandied about in this thread regarding associates benefits, perks, offerings, etc. The consensus of opinion seems to be that if these are not written into the contract of emloyment then they will be lost. The truth of the matter is that a contract of employment does not actually have to be written to be valid and a written contract does not necessarily state the full contract details that exist between the employer and employee.

TUPE looks at protecting employees rights when undertakings are transferred. It basically looks at the situation in the same way that an Industrial Tribunal would look at an unfair dismissal claim. In an unfair dismissal award "perks" are also taken into account when determining the weekly earnings of the claimant. So, if your renumeration included say, slaray, company car, gym membership and private medical insurance, the weekly value of all of these would be totalled to arrive at your weekly pay. It does not matter that not all other employees of the company that you work for don't take advantage of the gym membership because there is no gym near enough to them, it is what you yourself get that is important.

I am with Neil on this subject and would suggest that any employee that is being transferred and thinks that they are likely to lose out on associate benefits should ask for the matter to be clarified ASAP.

Mr_Burns 23-03-2004 16:09
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
I believe that when the IT associates were transferred from ntl to IBM, they were 'bought out' of their subsidised services. Has anyone from Cleppa Park confirmed that they will be losing their perk and not being compensated for it?

Busby 23-03-2004 22:04
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
We have asked but have been told that no decision or official word has come up as yet.

I guess it's up to Fujitsu and the T.U.P.E.

asdf 25-03-2004 14:34
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Yes they do-ever worked for a company that didn't give it's staff a dickount of some sort on it's given product?
I've worked for two companies that give absolutely no discount on it's products, a pension (with an absolutely stupid add to rate) was all I got.

The majority of comapnies give discounts, not all.

Surely the question is, would Fujitsu PAY ntl for the subsidised digiTV for transferred associates?

carlingman 14-04-2010 01:02
Re: Newport Cleppa Park
 
Apologies if I break the record for bumping the oldest thread back up but method in my madness.

;)

Having been an ex crew member of online house/caradaog house in cleppa park days meself then my question does have some relevance.

Does anyone or is anyone still employed by the old VISP side that I believe either transferred to Cardiff/Swansea or moved to the new building in St Mellons.

I looking for a little help or some contact details for anyone involved with the move as believe they once considered a move to a location in Celtic Springs.

Any help or pointers greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Carling :)


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