Scrap TV license fees?
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/3515131.stm
:shocking:
Oh no :(

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

id sooner pay subscription for BBC. Then i can ditch the rubbish i dont watch

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

It's interesting that they say the BBC should be run like Channel 4, and that the licence fee should be scrapped. AFAIK, Channel 4 is partially financed by the Licence fee.

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get rid of the lience fee. £120 for channels i never watch, i cant justify that :mad:

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

There isn't another broadcaster in the UK - arguably the world - that produces drama of the quality of the BBC. Anyone see The Deputy last night? Jonathan Creek on Saturday? Just two examples of what the Beeb happens to be putting out at the moment and which I happen to think are really quite good. I could also mention any number of 'classic' serials produced over the last half-century. It is also a massive news organisation that I still have a great deal of trust in, despite the Hutton report - it would be stupid to tar the entire operation on the basis of a single, high-profile cock-up.

Subscription charges would kill the BBC as we know it. You pay a subscription to see Sky One and they still have to run almost 15 minutes of adverts per hour to bring in enough money. How high would the subscription have to be in order to keep commercials off our screens and pay for the high-quality original programming we're used to? For me, the lack of adverts is one of the biggest attractions. You sit down to watch 60 minutes of TV and you get 60 minutes of TV.

A few noted BBC haters (like the MP Gerald Kauffman, whisper, whisper) are using low ratings for channels like BBC3 as their latest platform for demanding change, conveniently forgetting that when the BBC launched its TV service, most of the UK couldn't see it. BBC2 had a similarly limited reach in its early years. No-one would argue against the success of those channels now, especially as their output over the last 20 years is now the mainstay of the ever-popular UKTV (incidentally, part-owned by the BBC and generating revenue that supplements the licence fee).

The BBC's ongoing role as a public service broadcaster is to identify the needs and demands of the broadcast-consuming public and ensure there are no service gaps left unfilled by the various commercial operations. To my mind there is a yawning quality gap that ably justifies the BBC's existence all by itself; of all the alternatives Channel 4 probably comes closest to matching the BBC for the standard of its output, but 4 isn't a commercial answer to the BBC because its remit is not to be mainstream.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

Paying for a whole pack of TV channels, most of which you don't watch, is not something you just do the BBC. How many of the subscription channels you get via NTL/Sky do you actually watch?

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i totally agree and have complained here before. It should be simple for NTL to implement a menu approach to channels where you could pay for what you actually watch rather than the dross they force on you because its in a package where theres a channel u actually watch. I know it would cost more to run and it would cost the punter more for the same level of service, but lets face it most people wouldnt bother with half the channels they have the option to watch.

Its a tough balance between flexibility in having every channel NTL decides to transmit and paying for what you actually want.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

Hmm...

I pay NTL £28 a month for the "Family pack" to ensure that I get the channels I *do* want to watch.

I also, therefore, have to pay for a whole swathe of other channels which I get but *don't* want, but that are still receiving revenue from my subscription.

I would *love* to be able to get a discount because "I don't watch channels X, Y and Z" but that option isn't available.

Also all of those channels are stuffed full of adverts and sponsorships to cover their costs because they're not getting enough revenue, so if the BBC was turned into a subscription service they'd also have to either go for advertising themselves (which the other channels would *not* want since the advertising market is hard enough pressed as it is) or seriously cut down on their work as a public service broadcaster.

Frankly this just sounds like a "let's jump on the anti-BBC bandwagon" because they have, in their time, pi$$ed off governments of every hue and now, at last, they have the chance to get their revenge.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

A quote from the article:

The report is being officially handed to the Conservatives on Tuesday. The party said it is not bound by its findings.

Which would seem to fit in with an article in today's Guardian which claims that the Tories have decided that quietly ditching the report would be a good thing as there's more political mileage in defending the BBC against attacks by Labour. Ah, the cynicism of politicians!

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

Last Monday in fact parked my butt on the chair enjoyed a terrific new series The Deputy on the Beeb. Woo hoo about time to a TV drama to enjoy.

What a gem this new series was to be.

How wrong could I be as it was not a new series but a one off because thos arses at the Beeb have no doubt wasted the budget on Eastenders.

No way was it screened as a one off or at least it never seemed that way to myself and it seemed to lead nicely into the next episode.

Jack Dee even starred with a nice personal/career vendetta developing with Warren Clarke the 'deputy'.

Grrr good ole Beeb drop us a taster of what could have been a good series and blow the budget elsewhere.

:fit: :mad:

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

:notopic: Sorry, but it really winds me up when I see the american butchering of our language used over here. I blame microsoft for the increasing rise in violations. Please everyone when you use a spell checker etc, please ensure the dictionary is set for English UK.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

A point that shouldn't be forgot is that many of the channels that you may not want to watch on cable and Sky (shopping channels, etc) do not receive any of the subscription charges but pay to be on those platforms. Remove them from the package and it would probably put up the package charge and put many people out of work. You are not being forced to watch them but they are there if you do want.

My view is that they should abolish the TV licence fee and give the BBC the same revenue from direct taxation. Most households these days have TV so the cost of doing this would be spread across the entire population with people not earning enough to pay tax are not spending a higher proportion of their income on what most people consider an essential these days. Adopting this method of funding the BBC would result in huge savings as there would be no administration costs and no licence dodgers. How much of the licence fee goes to running the system?

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

The scrapping of the licence fee reminds me of the time when general rates on houses were scrapped. The rates were subdivided so that elements included within the rates were separated out and ratepayers ending up paying more for exactly the same services.

Personally,I'd prefer to keep the licence fee as despite its faults it probably is the cheapest option.If the BBC chooses to split itself up you can bet that the money you pay will be higher.

Though people speak of choice, even NTL or Sky do not give you exactly the channels you want.Instead they craftily include popular channels with non-popular channels so that you have to buy all the packs to get all the channels worth watching or listening to.

You'll never get a situation where you will pay exactly for what you want because people would opt not to have for example,the shopping channels, but funds from those channels allow NTL and Sky to bring you the channels you do want.

I think the BBC would commercially package their channels in such a way that you would still end up getting all the channels but at a cost greater than the licence fee.

The best option in my opinion is to pay the licence fee and watch the best parts of what the BBC offers, because that can be excellent and offer real quality. No channel is perfect but by picking the best from all of them you can have,with the aid of a video recorder (or recorders!!), the best of all worlds and a great night's TV every night into the bargain.

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No and no.....do i get my money back? ;)

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if the licence fee is scrapped i wonder how much some other form of tax would go up ?????????????? , would it really hurt to fund itself through advertising ?????????? , would it make any difference if a couple of more channels had advertising on them ??????????? , tbh i dont watch bbc that much :(

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The problem is, as I have been told by members of my family that work for Advertising Agencies ,that if you introduce the amount of advertising space forcing the BBC to advertise would, the prices would go through the floor. There already is an oversupply of advertising space, leading to reduced profits for TV channels, introducing more would lower the prices to the point where several channels (including the biggies like ITV and Channel 5) would possibly go bankrupt.

I don't think the BBC should be required to advertise, it would reduce the quality of their output, and the Independent companies would have to reduce program budgets below what they are already.

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lol ... sadly not! But I'm interested to know how many people who claim 'never' to use the BBC actually never use BBC online, never listen to a BBC radio station, never watch any BBC TV content or, for that matter, don't take advantage of innovations like NICAM stereo, which IIRC BBC engineers were heavily involved in developing.

I suspect the answer is that the BBC is such a part of the fabric of this country that we won't truly appreciate what we've got until the day it's taken away from us. I do hope that day never comes.

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Or Colour Television, Teletext, Digital Television transmission, RDS (Radio Data Service, used to display station names on radios) or DVDs (the BBC advised on the MPEG 2 standard).

One final thing. If you have ever watched TV, or listened to the radio (commercial or BBC) the chances are at least some of the personnel involved in what you are watching/listening to were trained by the BBC..

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:tu: to the Beeb and worthy of bumping this old thread back up from a while ago.

They have yet again turned up trumps with the controversial drama tonight "faith" about a community split apart by the 1984 Miners strike.

Only :td: was it was interupted by the news.

:D

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And not forgetting BBC online which appears to be invaluable to many on CF current affairs threads.

This reminds me of the old Monty Python sketch. What did the BBC do for us? Apart from all bringing us tons of national and regional terrestial and digital TV and radio channels, inventing digital radio, supporting the Open University, schools programming, groundbreaking drama, current affairs programming that wees all over ITV's (OK, not as good as it used to be) etc, etc :)

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

I so hope they scrap the TV licence!!

As with many other things in Britain it's just a stuffy old way of doing things!!

I'm sure if the BBC is as good as many say (hehehe) then it will survive as a subscription service.

I dont see why I have to pay for such rubbish just so I can own a TV....

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

I've got nothing against the BBC, and they dish out the odd good drama/show.

However, paying for the TV licence was probably more arguable a few years ago before satellite because you effectively only had four channels so there was always a one in four chance you would be using the BBC.

However not now, the BBC is now only a very, very small part of my viewing pattern. In fact the only BBC programmes I watched last week were the Alan Sugar programme (which is excellent) and the FA cup. All the rest were FTA terrestrial and Sky.

For my own needs, if you took the BBC away I wouldn't miss them.

Radio 1? I listen to Galaxy
Radio 5? I listen to Talksport
Documentarys/ Nature programmes - Discovery/ Animal planet
Grandstand/MoTD - Sky sports knocks them out the park

I suppose the only area where the BBC provide something that the others don't is original drama. But is that worth the TV licence to me?

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

keep it i get loads of tv loads of radio and a cracking website - granted some stuff isnt my cup of tea but i watch it lots more than ITV

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The BBC has great programming, it is one of the few channels that hasnt gone down the cheap reality TV crap we keep seeing. It needs the money from everyone to keep providing such a good service. The Dramas and comedys from the BBC are aso excellent. Flawty towers, only fools, porridge, would all of these happened if not for the bbc?

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Yes, it is time to scrap the license fee, there is far too much duplication and waste, we do not get value for money, over £2 billion is raised annually and one wonders where that money goes. Commercials and subscription fees should be introduced. The axe should fall on the too many radion stations and duplicate services. There should be an end to contracting overpaid and pampered celebrities, the army of journalists should also be cut.

We have seen far better quality history, news, and current affairs programming from Channel 4.

Whilst it's true the BBC can produce superb drama it is equally true the commericial channels can also produce superb drama. BBC 3 should be transformed into a base sports channel. Other institutions have had to change and the BBC needs to change.


:D

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

The licence fee is certainly not without its faults although I totally reject the 'well I don't watch it much' argument because the BBC, through its enormous variety of generally very high quality channels (TV, radio and online) offers such amazing diversity, quality and diversity. A life full of Sky Ones anybody? scastle made an excellent point in that the increasing fragmentation of the TV audience and the subsequent scraps for advertising revenue actually, on general terms, reduces quality because programme funds become so diluted. That's only going to get worse.

The problem with the fee is the political football the BBC becomes at charter renewal. That's not an easy one to get around as even with direct taxation (which would work psychologically in terms of people not getting hung up on an annual charge) will still be the subject to political pressure. But subscription is most definitely not the way to go; it will mean the BBC has to constantly chase ratings instead of providing a public service to complement commercial channels, and creativity and quality will suffer as a consequence as they hedge for safe bets.
__________________

Channel 4 has indeed generated some excellent programming but it is one channel - you simply can't compare it with the BBC which through its amazingly diverse output genuinely satisfies its public service remit (yes it can fall of those rails but when it produces so much......). In original drama with the excellent exception of Shameless (and some one offs) C4 has become increasingly reliant on US imports; Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Desperate Housewives, ER ; Similarly in comedy we've seen or have The Simpsons, Frasier, Cheers, Friends etc dominating output.

BBC3 a base sports channel? How's it going to compete for rights to fill airtime? Certainly won't get enough revenues from advertising to wrest stuff away from Sky. It'll get stuffed full of minority sports, have no viewers, no advertisers.....

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I can't remember the last time I watched ITV (other than Champions League), and if the license fee was scrapped I am sure that the Beeb would end up showing the same level of programming.

To be honest I would pay the licence fee for the BBC news and website alone. BBC News has got to be the most highly respected news service in the world and is something to be hugely proud of.

I really hope we don't get rid of the licence fee.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

I say keep the licence fee. The whole industry needs it. People have held up Channel 4 as an example of good programming. It is, but it is partially funded by advertising and partially funded by the licence fee.

As I stated earlier, I think making the BBC a commercial entity will cause massive problems for the existing commercial channels (several, including Channels 4, 5 and ITV would possibly fold). It's basic economics that the more suppy you introduce into a market, the lower prices for that supply go. Commercialising the BBC would introduce a massive supply of advertising space into an already over saturated market.

Apart from anything else, if you have watched any TV or listened to any radio station in this country, you have either directly or indirectly benefitted from the BBC. Whether they provided services for production, trained the technicians or developed the technology involved.

Also, the licence fee allows the Beeb to "carry" a series that has low ratings, but may improve. Look at "Men Behaving Badly", "Only Fools and Horses" and "Blackadder". The first series of each of those was dreadful, and if they were on a commercial channel, they probably wouldn't have been recommissioned (this actually happened with Men Behaving Badly - it's first series was on ITV and wasn't recommissioned by them).

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

Scrap the TV licence fee and provide the revenue lost from general taxation.

Most households have a TV licence and there is enormous cost in administrating, collection of the fees, database upkeep and evasion detection.

But keep adverts away from the BBC.

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Do you know a source which confirms Channel 4 funding? The evidence I've unearthed so far is, that it does not enjoy fees from the TV licensing fund.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/licencefee/#spent

http://www.ofcomwatch.co.uk/2005/02/...hase-of-psb-tv

There have been suggestions that it should enjoy a share and of course the argument is that all channels should receive a share. But as yet I have seen no evidence of supposed transference of a portion of the TV license fees.


:D

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I think you should re-check that.

The same way they have folded die to the influx of all the sattelite channels?

Well in that case they'd have to get use to the real world then.


This has been said before - so what. If the BBC didn't exist the technicians, technology and services would have been available somewhere else.

NTL for that matter, you may raise your eyebrows but NTL/IBA where are just as talented in broadcast technology.

[also]Also, the licence fee allows the Beeb to "carry" a series that has low ratings, but may improve. Look at "Men Behaving Badly", "Only Fools and Horses" and "Blackadder". The first series of each of those was dreadful, and if they were on a commercial channel, they probably wouldn't have been recommissioned (this actually happened with Men Behaving Badly - it's first series was on ITV and wasn't recommissioned by them).[/QUOTE]

The same licence fee also allows the Beeb to turn out crap series after series.

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The income from the TV license fees are over £2 billion per year. Given the existing priorities for distributing government funds I think funding the BBC from general taxation would be a no no, public opinion would be horrified.

When I lived in Kenya I was curious to note that every time you bought a radio or tv you would pay the license fee, so that each sale of apparatus raises more money. The more radios and tvs you buy the more licenses you collect! Anyway, such a scheme wouldn't raise the cash here.

Actually, the BBC has been practising with its own adverts. Probably might be a good idea for the BBC to start advertising in general once parliament and the government gives the go ahead.


:D

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The income may be over 2 billion but what are the administrative costs? Most households have a TV so overall they would be paying a smaller amount. What would you rather pay, £121 a year for a licence or maybe £1 or so a week for no licence?

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Well the BBC may well be overstaffed, so staff cuts and cutting back on celebrities and channels may help. Advertising and subscription services would be preferable.


:D

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Big savings would be made on the administration of collecting the TV Licence fee and enforcement.

I would rather the BBC is kept advert and subscription free.

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:tu::tu:

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

Can somebody please tell me why the BBC broadcasts things like BBC America, BBC World Service and BBC Spain and things like that... what benefit is this to British people, who have paid for the service?

Other than this one minor point, I think the BBC is fine.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

British people are not always in Britain, many holiday, work or live abroad.

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But BBC Spain is broadcast in Spanish... and BBC World Service is in 43 languages

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I dread the day BBC loses the licence, fee and the worrying thing is, I reckon it will happen within my lifetime.

For £120 a year, we get so much, the news service is classed as number 1 in the world, along with there output. BBC Three is gaining in the viewer stats, and wrightly so there is some brilliant stuff on there now.

I listen to Radio 1, 2, 4 and my local bbc station comercial station in genral are terrible, they have an advert slot every ten minutes, you cant get anything like radio 4 in the comercial arena.

There R&D department is one of the most important in the world, without which many advances in broadcasting would probably not ave happened, wait till we can whatch the last 7 days worth of TV like we can with radio on there site that will be great.

wehn you wok out howe much you pay for subscription channels, the license costs pennys and gives us the best output...

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BBC America is not funded by the license fee. Hence the reason it has ad's.

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Ah, ok.

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BBC World Service,"Dedicated to the friendship of English-speaking peoples" as the inscription says above the Bush House entrance, receives a generous contribution from the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, that is tax money, the FCO used to have a say over content. Certainly, when I lived overseas I valued its World Service radio broadcasts and was always amazed just how many locals would tune in to get an alternative to local state media.


:D

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The BBC World Service has had significant political and strategic uses over the years and still has.

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That's an interesting line of thought and certainly justified in the years before the end of the Cold War, web reference below clarifies the FO position:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?...=1007029395267

There is a view that the World Service should remain under FO funding and perhaps should be formally separated from the main BBC services.

:D

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Actually, I was partially wrong. Channel 4 DID initially recieve funding from the licence fee, but that was terminated. They are, however, debating applying for new funding from the licence to help pay for the transition to digital programming (http://www.c21media.net/news/detail....e=22418&area=1)



Most of the ITV channels have merged to save money. Advertising revenues have dropped massively because of fragmentation of the market (no quotable link for that, I have relatives and friends in the business and the quote comes from them).

Another way to look at it. The satellite and cable television market accounts for a fraction of the total viewing public, and, as such, the impact on ITV & Channel 4 (channel 5 was not around) was, at first, minimal. It has increased, but what effect would adding a supplier of advertising space that is the same size (or larger) than ITV have on all the channels?

The laws of Economics (particularly supply and demand) would suggest it will reduce the price of advertising space massively.

Of course, this will bring profits down (maybe not cause ITV to fold, but certainly smaller companies). However, the cost of producing decent Television will not go down. The practical upshot of that is we will get more cheap imports, more soaps and more reality TV. Purely because they are relatively cheap. Do you really want that?

Actually, while I am aware of NTL's track record in the broadcast industry (they are very respected), AFAIK, they did previously rely on the BBC for training.

In fairness, ALL channels have good programmes and ALL channels have bad programmes. With ITV, you don't pay for them (thank God, 90% of their output is crap IMO). With the various satellite and cable channels, it's different. You pay something toward the crap they put out, but you don't have to pay for that crap.

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To be honest, we do not watch BBC as nothing interesting is ever on, I am sick to death of watching repeats all the time even the kids moan!!!!!! and they are only 7 and 8. We get Sky and I think it is very good value for money, so if we were given a choice, I think sky would win time and time again

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Not forgetting "Nation shall speak peace unto nation"

Very true, because, despite all the claims of political bias (usually from UK politicians who don't like the BBC saying things they don't like), the Beeb is generally noted in the rest of the world for its political impartiality, especially in countries where you only get the "official" version of the news.

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Have to agree with you on this one.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

The BBC's internatonal ventures are great for ex pats all over the world, where a nation of travellers have inhabited many parts of the world, and I love the fact that no matter where I am in the world, I can get a little of the BBC.

£10 a month for all the output, come on now, who can honestly hold there hands up and say they do not use and like the services they offer. Web Radio and TV. I don't buy a newspaper, i read my news on the bbc website. so £10 a month compared to the cost of a newspaper is good in my opinion. I don't subscribe to sky but do have the box so having bbc news 24 and channels three and 4 make great sense to me, less the cost of a sky access pacakge at £9.99 a month so im starting to make some real savings here.

I think some people forget how much the BBC is all around them and take its services for granted and just think they are paying £120 a year for two tv channels....

Hey I dunno, i somehow think people would be much more vocal if the BBC where to be split up and advert funded.

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Dont really browse bbc webby or listen to their web radio, bareley watch any bbc tv at all and havnt done for years, ex pats pay no licence, why is my family paying for them and others here in the UK who do watch bbc ? purely because we have the facility to watch summat we dont really want 98% of the time. Iv asked cable to chop bbc so we cant recieve them but they cant because they are not allowed. TV licence fee is just tax or if you want to look at it in a more sinister way it is really extortion, got a tv pay the tax, dont pay the tax we will put you in court and you pay the fine.

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I think the problem is that we don't have an option. Many people would pay the licence fee if it were optional, but it's not, it's compulsory. If we were able to say "no thanks, I'll go without", then we would effectively be making a choice, as we do with cable channels etc. If you don't want it, or can't afford it, you don't have it. The licence fee is just imposed and enforced. It's hardly democratic, is it?

I personally don't agree with the licence fee, because I don't have a choice. Sure, I occasionally watch TV, and I may well watch BBC (not sure - I don't watch it often enough), but if the BBC were not available I wouldn't lose sleep.

One other thing that amuses me is the enforcement side of it. I remember the ads years ago showing the detector vans, which they claimed knew which house and even which room had a TV, and which channel they were watching. Turns out that was a load of rubbish! They sent three letters to a flat I owned which was empty, saying I HAD to tell them if I had a TV or not. Three letters, even though I explained it all in replies to the first two.

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Without reading the rest of the thread as I am about to go to work, to answer your questions NO and NO I did not see them..... and it is likely I will neve watch them. So why am I paying for this great drama?

If you want to watch it you pay for it :)

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Sky News are reporting that it looks like we are going to have to pay the BBC TAX for another 10 years :mad: . Only in this country can you be forced by law to pay for a product that you dont use or want :mad: .

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. The licence fee could be viewed as a tax. People will argue that nobody is forced to buy a TV, but then that really isn't the issue. If I buy a car, I only have to pay road tax if it's used the road; if I buy a TV I have to buy a licence regardless of whether I "use" the BBC.

I recall hearing two bits of info that may just be urban myth. One is that if you buy a TV that is de-tuned so that it cannot receive BBC channels, you don't need a licence? The other concerns someone who was taken to court for not having a licence but managed to prove (no idea how) that he only used the TV to watch pre-recorded videos. Perhaps someone could confirm/denounce/clarify these two points?

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Ahem ...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...5&postcount=14

You're caught in a time loop, my friend. Or maybe you're just very consistent ... :D

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

I don't want nuclear weapons and wars with Iraq but I still have to pay for them as part of my income tax. Nature of the beast. The direct link between the licence fee and the BBC is why it is such a political hot potato. One suspects if it was subsumed into wider taxation it wouldn't upset people such as you quite so much.

Whatever, I still think the licence fee represents extraorinarily good value for money and that we would lose so much in terms of creativity, quality and cost efficiency is we were to chuck the BBC to the commercial lions.
__________________


Presumably you'd have to prove your household, car and portable radios couldn't get BBC channels either and that your PC can't access BBC online. Which makes me wonder why they call it the TV licence?!

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

According to the TV Licensing website you need a license if....

If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence. You are required by law to have one.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

This is a very timely resurrection of a very old thread!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/4309325.stm

Looks like the licence fee will indeed survive for at least another 10 years, although this decision is in part a recognition that if the licence fee were ever to be scrapped, it would require more than 10 years of planning to implement an alternative regime.

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According to the TV licencing company, you do not need a licence if you do not wath or record TV (so if you are only using the TV to watch DVDs, pre-recorded videos or a games console you don't need a licence). You do need to notify them in writing. however. (http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/gethelp/faqs.jsp#link1)
, but you do need a licence if you are planning to record any television (terrestrial or satellite/cable) http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/gethelp/faqs.jsp#link2

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

Well that seems a bit more reasonable, but I wonder how many people know about it? Let me get this right though... if you record a SKY TV programme, you still have to pay the licence fee? Hmmm, I'm sure there's logic in there somewhere...

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I think TV Licencing is being a little disingenuous here. I do not believe there is any legal obligation for you to confirm in writing to them if you don't require a TV licence. I think it more likely that they want you to do this because it makes it easier for them to keep tabs on who doesn't have a licence.

Note the difference in language between FAQ1 and 2 ... in 2, they start quoting legislation to make clear your obligation. They don't do that at 1. I believe the reason they don't is that there is no such legislation.

Re: Scrap TV license fees?
 

There is an issue with the way the TV licence people operate. There are numerous cases where they have hounded people who do not own a TV because they assume everyone does.

EDIT: For info: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1394167,00.html Of course it would be Guardian readers that don't own tellys! ;)

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I have emailed TV Licencing and challenged them to name the legislation that empowers them to require unlicenced homes to declare themselves. We shall see what they say when forced to speak in explicit terms instead of muddy statements that imply they have powers that I don't believe they have ....

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Reception of TV via the internet is an area that will become more of an issue as broadband internet speeds increase.

At the moment you need a TV licence even if you own no other TV reception equipment if you watch live TV originating in the UK on your PC. You don't need a licence if the broadcast originates outside the UK or if the TV programme is from an archive.

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From the bbc

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I don't drive a car. My bicycle causes minimal damage to the roads. Why should I pay taxes, part of which go to maintain highways?

I don't go to school. I don't have children who will go to school. Why should I pay taxes which go to maintain schools?

Etc etc etc...

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1 you dont pay car tax for a bike but you still use the road. granted less damaging than other vehicles hence the no vehicle licence. I only do about 3-4000 miles a year in my car but still pay the same car tax as someone who does 30,000 miles. Car tax is yet another Extorted annual set fee which really should just be added to fuel tax and would be much fairer while the disc displayed in the windscreen should be an insurance disc which cannot be obtained without a valid mot.
2 schooling is a pretty poor comparison which is deemed nessecary by our society than bbc tv radio etc which is entertainment and not nessecary for the community.
It should be an optional subscription, the only reason anyone would say it shouldnt is those that want a cheep ride of entertainment subsidised by those that have to pay for something they dont use but have no choice if they do use the alternatives. BBC could not offer the same quality shows they currently broadcast based on a £10 a month subscription that is optional therefore subscribers would need to pay a good £20-£30 a month to keep BBC alive and kicking and its governers (or now to be trust) in the livestyle they have become acustomed too, a lifestyle which 8/10 people could only dream about.

There are two possible words for the TV licence, 1 its another TAX or 2 its legalised Extortion.

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I was just quoting from their site, Don't know how legal what they are asking is..
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Perhaps a better way to put it would be "My child goes to private school. Why should I pay for state schools as I do not use them".

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Schools and roads I'd say were far more essential than an ageing broadcasting company who do nothing but bleat about a lack of funds (a chap who interviewed me for a job at the BBC even managed it). I'd say we owe some kind of social responsibility for education and transport, I certainly can't say the same about the BBC.

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Oh goodee - another 'Do I need a TV licence' thread.

Try here:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=19340
or here:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=16550
or here:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=805

Oh and BTW, it's a licence (noun) and to license (verb) and hence licensing (gerund?) and licensable (F.K.).

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Does it really matter how people spell it? It's not detracting from the point of the discussion.

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No.

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So if you don't have a car, you don't pay tax on it.

If you don't want to be taxed on your TV (which is, of course, what the licence is) don't own one.

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To be very pedantic about the TV licence fee you would have to pay £121 for a licence even if you didn't have any TV, video recorder, DVD recorder, etc but had a PC and logged onto the www.qvcuk.com website and clicked on the "watch QVC live" button.

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Why not it makes a great dvd movie veiwer and an even better screen for computer games plus the added benefit of ocasional sky usage, but your saying dont own one to avoid a TAX that is in reality illegal, but because the tv is capable of recieving something which i dont want I have to pay.

You would begrudge paying a smokers tax just because you own lungs which is why tax is applied to cigarettes not if you own lungs, its a fairer way of taxing those who use what they want to use.

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Nope, you don't pay tax on cigarettes, you pay duty. There is a small but significant difference, you pay a fixed amount of duty every time you buy the specific product to which duty has been applied.

The TV licence is not a tax on TV ownership, it is a licence to use a TV within the UK to receive broadcast television signals. The drivers' licence is not a tax on being allowed to drive or own a car. You can know how to drive and yet be unlicenced, and you can own a car yet be unlicenced. The drivers' licence is a document that entitles you to drive on British roads.

The difference between the TV licence and the drivers' licence is the proceeds of the TV licence fund some of the services you are then entitled to view, while the cost of a drivers licence AFAIK is enough to cover the cost of providing it to you.

The TV licence is not by any means unique as a licence to use radio receiving or transmitting equipment. Most of the broadcast spectrum is licenced in one way or another, be it for radio stations or mobile phone companies.

In what way is the TV licence an 'illegal' tax? It was set by Parliament and has never been overturned by the Law Lords, by definition it is therefore legal. :confused:

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Commercial Tv is funded by advertising which we all pay for, like it or not. Let's call that a commercial tax!

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If you do not watch any kind of broadcast TV (ie use your TV only for watching DVDs/Videos or computer/console games, but not for viewing any terrestrial, cable or satellite channels) you do not need to pay a licence.. http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/gethelp/faqs.jsp#link1

Mind you, it would be interesting to see what happens if you go to court challenging the TV licence company because the tax they impose is "illegal".

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The magistrates would completely ignore an attempt like that to argue a point of law, in all likelihood. You would have to appeal the conviction they gave you all the way to the Lords, spending a small fortune and wasting years of your life in the process. And at the end of it all I'm pretty sure the Lords would be unimpressed too.

If the TV licence were an 'illegal tax', I think committed BBC-haters like Gerald Kaufman would have been pursuing that angle decades ago.

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Dont know where you got drivers licence from car tax aka vehicle licence duty was brought into the discusion and I pointed out that is also yet another unfair taxation method. Drivers licence is purely a permit to drive. Car tax is a fixed fee no matter how much you use your car, unfair on many who subsidise those who hammer our roads, kind of like the way some users hammer unlimited internet disrupting those who use unlimited internet within reason.

As your only choice is to pay a tv licence or not own any kind of broadcast accepting equipment which is now extended to computers hooked up to the internet, it is an undemocratic fee applied to all despite wetehr they wish to have BBC or not.
We dont watch BBC much at all if it was an option to pay £10 a month subscription or not have bbc we would yes do without bbc. It is not an option and therefore does not fit in a democratic society which we are supposed to be. The way it is forced upon us pay, go to court and get fined extensivly or have no tv is none other than legalised extortion, the only reason it being legal is because the government say so. So the government is yes imo guilty of extortion because they are the law.

You want BBC you pay for it. I do not owe you BBC so I dont see why I should subsidise your pleasure.

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I never mentioned VED, or 'car tax'. I drew a parallel between a driver's licence and a TV licence. As you say, a drivers licence is a permit to drive. A TV licence is a permit to watch TV. Simple, really.

It is not undemocratic to impose something on everyone. Democracy is the rule of the majority, not the consensus of the whole. Therefore the majority is entitled to impose its will on the whole. The TV licence, as an Act of Parliament, is therefore quite democratic.

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Hi, I'm starting up some new TV channels, Radio Stations and Web Sites and the government have agreed to add another £120 a year on to yours and everyone elses licence fee to subsidise me, hope that's ok with you, even if it isn't let's face it, you're not going to have a say in the matter.

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And just how many acts of parliament do we have that breach human rights.

Edit and to boot yet another very poor peice of comparison

Drivers licence £38 which lasts till what about age 70 free renewal

TV licence anually recurring and increasing till your 75 where you will get it free if your still alive or not in an old peoples home
Nice how we treat the aged in Britain.

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Aren't we being a bit licentious here?
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Plenty, I believe. And whilst we're on the subject, an Act of Parliament is not necessarily democratic, any more than day to day acts BY our Government. They may be democratically elected, but they sure as Hell follow an agenda that most of us would never vote for. From time to time that is...

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Of course I have. Come the election I can vote for a party that agrees with me that the Bifta Broadcasting Corporation is a waste of licence-fee-payer's money and plans to replace the licence with a subscription. ;) :D

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But my party is the only one that isnt going to grant yet another decade of as you say democtratic (extortion) on you with Biftas BC and my other policies stink :P

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Well I'm off to use up my 30 pence a day at BBC online. :D H2G2 the best site at the BBC.

See ya later. :tu:

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Fact:

The BBC will keep the licence free for at least 10 Years

like it or not, theres nothing you can do. :)

Wehay for the BBC

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I must attach more importance to a vote than your good self, I'm certainly not likely to change it over a license fee, but still, you get my point, I personally could live without the BBC and I want that choice, I should be entitled to make that choice and not have someone make it for me.

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I do take your point ... :)

However, I disagree, because I think those who argue for the abolition of the licence fee based on it representing lack of choice, misunderstand the principles on which the licence fee is based. It has long been the consensus in the UK that broadcast media needs to attain certain quality standards and breadth of subject matter/genre, and furthermore that the market being what it is, simple market forces can't be relied upon to provide it all. The BBC has a charter as a public service broadcaster that compels it to fulfil this very role, and it has a guaranteed income from the licence fee that allows it to to fulfil it. The licence fee is a recognition that every person who enjoys television, should contribute to the task of ensuring continuing standards of quality and breadth of content. In that respect it's not so different from state funds being used to keep open museums and galleries that you might never visit.

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Which is why British TV (and particularly the output of the BBC) is respected and enjoyed worldwide.

However, I do believe the BBC should be stopped from going down the soaps+reality tv+period dramas route

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I just want to be sure that any news reporting that takes place is untainted by certain media moguls beliefs and agenda. :tu:

Public broadcasting has a vital function to play in making sure that in times of crisis there are no conflicts of interest in the news and information that we receive.


Frankly thinking of some of the innotative comedy of the last 60 odd years I very much doubt if the likes of Monty Python,The League of Gentlemen,Black Adder, Red Dwarf or The Kumars would have even been considered by commercial TV.

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Here's a good exercise: Make a list of every classic TV comedy you can think of, and then note which channel made each one. Anyone who fancies a go at this can post their list here so we can argue over whether each show is a true classic or not!

I'm willing to bet that the majority of the comedies on the list were originated by the Beeb.

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+ Porridge, Little Britain, Fast Show, Young Ones........................... (cont. pg 94)

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Couldnt really name one
My house didnt have a TV till about 20 years ago my parents couldnt afford it
by the time we got a tv of any kind I was at an age where I was more interested in looking at the start of my carreer and going out and enjoying myself.
I didnt have my own tv till about 15 years ago by which time I was @ work and very rarely watched any tv but did watch rented movies. Still had to pay a licence for that privalege, a few years later I have kidz who really are only interested in cartoon network, movies and computer games.

BBC barely figures in my families persoanl history and highly unlikely to ever figure in its future either.
Hence the begrudged TV licence which I hasten to add is set to become known as "Computer TAX" in the not too distant future.

Why should we finance a corporation that just doesnt figure in our lives never has and likely never will ?

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I have never needed or wanted to go to an art gallery either. But I still think that it should be part-funded by the taxpayer. I am not disabled but my money should be used to help those that are.

You do not have an absolute right to decide what you should pay for all the time.

The BBC does so much, itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s programming in areas such as Drama and comedy is excellent. The BBC started many of the greatest programs known because no other company had the will or the ability to allow them. A commercial broadcaster would never have taken up the office. Monty python? Certainly not. Drama such as state of play would not be shown on ITV. As they prefere police dramas.

The BBC also provides a lot in terms of other programs. No channel would EVER show programs such as panorama, Horizon and so on. They have many programs to show people about current affairs. At the height of the BNP they showed a Drama called 'England expectsââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢, which was amazing. They also played a big part in helping to stop the BNP when they showed that private investigation. After that a lot of people revoked their membership, and the banks closed their accounts.

The BBC also funds many projects to find new and creative talent. They fund school projects and provides education to the nation though some of its programs. They are used as a resource in many good films (look at the credits, many documentaries thank the bbc). Worldwide people listen to the BBC and go on the website. It is a remarkable company that plays a massive part in the fabric of the nation but also is loved and respected worldwide. The BBC doesnt need any new leaders, it needs a leader to stand up and stick up for it-self with the constant attacks. The murdoch news company is contantly attacking it and he (murdoch) hates the BBC and so he uses his news companys to attack it. The BBC is free of such agenda

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And this is what happens when they get there gravy train of money back
:upyours:to the BBC

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/sto...430295,00.html

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boycot the program, if the majority don't watch the BBC might learn a lesson. I feel that IMPO I couldn't trust what he says happens after all he was breaking the law trying to steal from the man.

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I dont watch the Boring Broadcasting Company anyway :). But i am still forced to fund this sort of thing. :2up: to the BBC