Cameras in the Workplace
 

We`ve got a new manager at work and he`s had cameras put up all over the place. He now wants to put a camera in our staff room. His reasoning is that it`s for security reasons but we all know it is to moniter tea and dinner breaks. We are keeping him at bay for the moment by telling him that the female staff members get changed in there. In the end, he probably will just go ahead and install them. Can he do this?

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

just found these 2 articles, which maybe of some interest to you :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/340697.stm

http://www.oneclickhr.com/?hrguide/a...7&hrupdate=106

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

This is not UK law but i would have thought the same principles might be true so might be worth you searching this out.

When can an employer use covert video surveillance in the workplace?

If an employer wishes to use covert video surveillance there are a number of requirements that must be observed:

· it must be used only to detect whether an employee is engaged in an unlawful activity in the workplace Section 7(1)(a). It is not allowed to be used to check whether an employee is present or is doing his or her job properly, or for other monitoring purposes;
· the employer must obtain a covert surveillance authority from a Magistrate approving the covert surveillance Section 7(1)(b);
· the surveillance must be carried out in accordance with the terms of the covert surveillance authority Section 18;
· the surveillance must not continue for more than 30 days Section 16;
· the covert surveillance must not take place in a change room, toilet, shower or bathing facility Section 9(3)(b); and
· the surveillance must be overseen by a nominated licensed security operator Section 9(2)(a). Licensed security operator is defined at s.3 to be "a person holding a Class 1 licence issued under the Security (Protection) Industry Act 1985 or a licence of a corresponding kind issued under any Act that replaces that Act". The Security (Protection) Industry Act 1985 has since been replaced by the Security Industry Act 1997. Under s.11(1) of that Act, a Class 1A licence authorises the licensee to "patrol, guard, watch or protect property ... ". The requirements for obtaining and operating under such a licence are set out in that Act; for example, holders of Class 1A licences must be employed by a person holding a 'master licence' issued under that Act. .

Employers are strongly advised to contract a licensed security operator to set up and conduct any covert video surveillance.

After the covert surveillance has taken place employers have a number of further obligations:

· the employer must not use the recording for an irrelevant purpose (that is one unrelated to legal action, disciplinary action or amending security procedures as a result of the illegal activity) Section 8;
· the employer must ensure that any recordings within his or her control are protected against loss, unauthorised access or use. (One precaution that could be taken is for an employer to erase all recordings as soon as they cease to be of use in relation to disciplinary or legal action);
· the employer also has a duty to report back in writing to the Magistrate issuing the authority, within 30 days of its expiry, the results of the surveillance Section 23; and
· if the employer proposes to take any detrimental action against an employee as a result of the covert surveillance, then that employer should provide the employee or the employee's lawyer with reasonable access to the recording Section 17(1)(d).

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

If you have a health and safety rep. at work talk to them about it. The DPA has strict rules about cctv monitoring. The law is a bit flakey on this but if he does install them you have a right to access the recordings.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Thanks for the links, good reading :) I think I`ll have to dig a bit deeper than this though because the cameras he`s having fitted aren`t covert ones, they are quite open and plain to see.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Also depends on the sort of workplace - I've seen "Fake" and "Real" ones installed to stop petty theiving in the workplace. Ignoring the "Changing Facilities" of the staff room (use the toilets - if cameras go in there you've got something to complain about) if you are force to leave your personal effects in there at least you know they are monitored.

CCTV is everywhere now and you've probably been "watched" at somepoint in the last few weeks. Fact of life they are there and if your boss is installing them in the open then no problem, he's or she is not hiding anything - have you asked why they are being installed?

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

another point is , if you are doing nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about , if you take your tea breaks as allowed then you havent got a problem , i would just let him put them up and let him think he has won , then find some other more sneaky way to get back at him for being a ****** , of course there is the other side of the coin that says he may be genuine and looking after your welfare after all , ok then maybe not :D :D :D :D

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

One company I used to work for (and for legal reasons I won't name them - yet) tried to get away with putting cameras in the blokes' toilets as they were suspecting certain individuals of nipping in there to 'relieve' themselves in unconventional ways...

They are currently being sued....

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Even better - Come in one morning with all the guys wearing skirts and bra's and dance around in front of the camera. Then hide all the stuff and change into normal clothes.....

If he asks what was going on just say you dont know what he si talking about. He will most likely check his coffee for drugs and call in the CCTV company :rofl:

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

pmsl @ that :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

A bit divergent from topic, if not totaly off topic.

Whilst in the UK I helped my brother camera up the three cafes he owns. One of the cafes already had an old analogue system linked to timelapse VCR, but we decided to go the whole network hog and put in DSL connections at each shop and using lan cams (from Axis, nice kit) my brother can now monitor the shops from home or anywhere with a net connection. The cameras are also linked into the alarms in the shops so if overnight someone breaks in the start sending images to a server in a location other than the one being broken into (he had a break in where the old analogue cameras were and the thieves simply took the VCR tape with them).

I used zen internet for the DSL lines in the shops and at his home as they provide, at no extra cost, 8 public and static IP addresses, which make setting up the cameras easy. I used these in conjunction with Draytek/ Vigor routers. Zen also claim no contention _within_ their own network, which is great for this app (though you still get contention on the BT part of the link of course). These plugged into the DSL line will come up automaticaly after a power down and the cameras are online. They also come with LAN to LAN VPN facilites, which means it was easy to set up a VPN between all the sites so that he can print from home machine to a printer attached to a machine in one of the shops (or to a printer connected directly to the draytek - though to be honest I didnt get that working in the time I had in the UK). Oh and the drayteks all have wifi as well so he can wander round the cafes with his laptop and access his files at home or on the net.

So he now has 5 LAN cameras in 3 shops, all accessable over the internet (with passwords of course). He also has a VPN that covers all three shops and his home office. He also has wifi in all the cafes (though no plans to offer it to customer atm). This all runs on Zens own uncontended (once you reach it via BT's contended network) network.

Even imagining trying such an app on NTL's network (using non business products) would be a non starter. No static IP's which makes it harder. The cap would soon become a problem as well. The 128kbs upload is a limit too. This is a high volume internal application (needing no net access at all really if the cameras are being viewed or recorded from any of the sites). For me this is an example of where Zen are getting things right and NTL are not. Zen were helpfull and supportive through out this. They want to drive up usage and uses of their products, not restrict and limit them.

To get back on topic a bit more, I was a bit moraly concerned about helping put cameras in the work place. However these are not hidden or covert cameras. They are clearly seeable and all the staff know they are their. They do also provide some degree of protection for his staff as well. Of course part of the objective of them is to keep his staff 'on their toes' on the basis that they _might_ be being watched. The reality is that they rarely are (once the novelty wears off :) )

Once I get my own sat link up and running here (soon hopefully) I intend to get myself a draytek router (not cheap but I have grown to love these boxes) and plug myself into his VPN network of his house and 3 shops too. Of course I would like symetrical 10mbs or even better 100mbs links for this but it still has uses on a half meg connection. So who wants more bandwidth and is not a 'warez merchant'? My brother (and me (ish)) for a start. !

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Hmm, some suggestions:
1) Take a polaroid from the same place as the camera & stick it in front.
2) Clean the camera lense with ZIF, Jif, wire wool etc.
3) Paint the camera.
4) Stick some useless poster over it.
5) get an air gun & shoot it from round the corner.
6) see a lawyer.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Oh gods, not *AGAIN*!! :(

Look, Paul, which would you prefer:

1) Your boss *constantly* looking over your shoulder, no matter what you are doing, "just in case" or...

2) Your boss *not* checking up on you unless there is actually *proof* or at least reasonable grounds that a crime is being committed?

Personally anyone who went for option 1) is someone that I would *not* work for because he has *no* respect for his employees nor trust in them and I would, in turn, have no respect or trust for him since he has no idea about the concept of "presumed innocent until proven guilty"!

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

suit yourself graham , if i have done nothing wrong i have nothing to fear , simple as that , do you avoid town centres because they have cctv ???????????

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

I`ve worked at this place and used the same staff room for 9 years and in all that time, we have not had one theft. Along comes this new manager and the first thing he wants to do is install is a camera. I`ve approached him and asked him why and he tells me its for security reasons. I then point out that we`ve never had anything go missing, so why now. He then adds on that he could moniter tea and dinner breaks as well. So, I think that is the real reason.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

just out of curiousity , do ppl take the p!ss out of tea breaks , i.e. sneaking an extra 5 or 10 mins sometimes :)

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

No. I`ve told him thats why he pays me as a supervisor to do things like that. We have had a little staff meeting and decided to (if he puts the camera in) go outside and have the breaks there. A bit cold atm but the staff just want to put their point across.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

what about a union intervention then , thats assuming you are all in a union of course :)

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Security really only requires cameras on entry and exit points, not throughout the building. If theft is a problem, then the covert route above could be considered.

Where I am the security doors and lift lobbys are monitored with cameras (fantastic resolution, can read the year on a coin on the floor). Thats it.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Ugh, I wouldn't work at a place with cameras all over the place. I simply do not require that much security.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

suppose you were working somewhere that could potentially be robbed , i.e. a petrol station where there was the chance of some harm coming to yourself , would you not like the detterent value and the chance to get a name to a face if a robbery occured ???????????????

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

You can ask for a copy of all recordings made of you......thats the law.
IE... you can go into your local tube station and ask them for a copy of there security footage of you ....they MUST give you it.......its the same with your boss, say thats fine but at the end of each week you want supplied with the recording of yourself, get everyone to do it and then he wpould have to sit editing for HOURS :)

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

now that IS a good idea :D :D

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

blackthorn, one way or another your name is familiar to me...

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

It's called a subject access request. Google it.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

If you are as naiive as to believe that's really the case then far be it from me to try to convince you otherwise, after all, ignorance is bliss...

Sorry, did I mis-read the topic of this discussion? Or are you a street sweeper, in which case the town centre may well *be* your "workplace"...

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

nope i aint a street sweeper , i was just making a point that you havent answered , do YOU avoid town centres because there are cctv cameras , you appear to object to them being in the workplace do you still object to them being in town centres , simple question isnt it , the outcome is the same , you have done nothing wrong but you are still being watched , easy enough i would have thought :)

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Not wishing to trivialise a serious issue but... have you seen these? :D
http://xunor.free.fr/videos/info.htm

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

I didn't answer it because it was not relevant to this discussion which is about "Cameras in the Workplace".

You appear to have neglected one small detail, ie that when you are in the workplace you are *easily identified* by your boss or other personnel.

In the town centre, however, you are just one more face in the crowd and, despite the claims of those who support biometric identification, facial recognition systems are extremely unreliable.

Also you may not be aware, but in the Town Centre you are legally entitled to obtain a copy of any video tape that has your image on it. In the work place you may not have the same right.

My point is that I object to the abuse of power that hiding video cameras in the workplace represents.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

nobody said they were hidden , and i think you wont answer because it will show you up , rather than it isnt relevant :)

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Therre seems to be a discussion goin on in this thread about use of cameras in high riskj areas like petrol stations etc. Thats going totally off thread as its been stated that the cameras are in the staff room, not somehere thats likely to be held up etc.

Its all very pointless & taking it to extremes that are not really relevent.

I do think that the original poster needs to consult someone with legal know how I.E. citizens advice bureau/solicitor etc to check the legal standpoint on this & I would like to know the outcome.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Could / should start with own in house HR / Legal departments. Both may not be aware of this guys plans and could put the kibosh on them pretty quickly.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

You can think whatever you like, I can't help that. I have given my reasoning, if you can't accept that, it's not my problem.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

I found this today.

Points out a few things.

Have you had any further developments?

EDIT: and this.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

hi

New to this forum but have a query on this subject.

where do you think staff stand as per Lunch break, we have a camera 6 foot above our usual lunch table and it records sound too?

are we entitled to a little more privacy?

cheers

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

That would depend entirely on what your contract or terms of employment state.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Not really. I highly doubt there's a clause in the contract allowing it.

There are two important things here:

a) The employer needs to tell you formally what they're doing
b) The employer needs to put up notices informing all in the area that footage is being recorded, and especially that sound is being recorded

Do you have a union in your workplace? If so, are you a member? You need to talk to your union rep and they need to arrange a meeting with the employer at a local level post haste.

You say it's your lunch area - is this somewhere you just go to eat your lunch, or is it somewhere you're told you must spend your lunch break?! I hope it's not the latter.

The guidelines from the Trade Unions' Congress is that the employer needs a valid reason to put up cameras and if there isn't one, other than spying on staff, they shouldn't be there. Nonetheless, warning should be put up in the area. The basic fight you can put up is that all staff have a right to privacy in the workplace - just look at tuc.org.uk for more information.

As for sound recording, that's just out of order.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Sound recording at lunch? :shocked: That's shocking, you might aswell be in prison :shocked::monkey:

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

Sounds like time for a 'sting'.

Set up a fake scandalous story and see what transpires.

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

latest guidance on it here

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...f_practice.pdf

---------- Post added at 02:47 ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 ----------

i personally doubt even if its in your contract that would comply with above guidance or the HRA or RIPPA ( later asi can see no work related reason for a camera or sound in a eating area other than to prevent theft etc time spent in there could easily be derived from a camera on door to room )

Welcome to the site :)

I think recording sound is unethical really,i know alot of places do it.... The question i guess is can they use anything they hear against someone?

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

That document is nine years old, and I can't see where it says the employer can't record conversations.

What if he works in a bank and is planning a robbery? What if an employee is being racially harrassed and everyone else denies it? What if female employees are complaining about lewd comments from some male employees?

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

We had cameras installed in our rest rooms too, for security reasons, we complained to everyone we could think of. In the end the company just carried on anyway. It cost loads of money to install them and over many years nothing ever happened, aside from privacy issues, so what, remember the boss always knows best!

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

because it has to be proportionate and shown to be needed as they are not working there seems to be no work related need

and if its to stop theft etc it can not be done as an on going thing it is suposed only to be used them for a limited time and comes under much stricter rules

which goes to your second part too that sort of surveillance cant be done as an ongoing operation

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

I can understand the reasons for wanting the cctv.

each member of staff now has a camera pointed at them for 8 hours, no camera on entry/exit point of workplace. even the guy answering phones all day has one pointed at him now and he is unable to get privacy durin breaks as he can't leave site like rest of staff.

no one has been told real reasons for surveillance

no signs up in workplace informing us of sound recording

4 members of staff = 4 cameras

5 years and no thefts, guaranteed! no wonder staff are ****ed off.

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:34 ----------


the area where lunch has to be eaten is the only area which was allocated before cctv, so yes i suppose we have been told to eat there. But we can go out during lunch, but why should we?

Re: Cameras in the Workplace
 

so your boss cant hear you! :p: .........sorry,very flippant