Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

This is really interesting I have been asking to be able to do this for over a year. Had a run in on the phone the only time I can really say that the person on the other end was disrespectful to me.. I have been asking so now please can I have the access to monitor the SACM as requested in NTLs own link above.

I would if NTL didn't have the ip blocked so I can't set up MRTG!!!!!!

Come on you tell us to do it in one hand and stop us with the other..

Decision time NTL can we or can't we monitor our own usage of the service......

I was on about this on old .com and stil trying now... no more excuses either we can or we can't if C&W areas can't be allowed to monitor their traffic then remove the CAP!!!!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The IP is not blocked Kitty, but access to SNMP (which MRTG uses) is blocked on the CM. You can use other products apart from MRTG to monitor the bandwidth, such as DU Meter.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Only problem with that is if you have a router. DU meter looks at the ethernet card of the pc it is running on not the total through the modem.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The quote says its no use monitoring individual machines.. Du-meter cannot monitor the SACM only individual machines.

I have asked and still asking for a way to monitor the SACM which is the only way to monitor the complete downloads/uploads for all machines...

Just sent this to bandwidth@ntlworld.com lets see if I get a reply.

I am more than willing to test things out working with NTL to sort this out just until now its been more they are not interested. BBKing I know is trying to sort things out but after more than a year you start to give up.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I tried DU Meter, but found it wasn't acurate.

Plus, a breakdown of the results included e-mail activity, where when I switched off the 2 other pc's connected, and just looked at e-mail activity, it seemed quite high for just checking for mail, this added up over a 24 hour period eats in to the 1gig allowance, which I think is too low anyway, especially if you share the connection with 2 other housemates, 333.33r MB per person, per day hmmmmmmm

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Blueyonder customers can use MRTG through the same router I have and I can prove it to all. Its NTL who are stoping us monitoring our usage......

Veiw this page and see just that MRTG working through a linksys router.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Have people with routers tried opening up port 161 for UDP traffic? This will allow SNMP through and you should be able to monitor your cable modem using MRTG. I am reliably informed that SNMP can be used to monitor traffic.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Fair enough. Seems ntl need to have a rethink about their policy in ex-C&W areas then, if customers with routers can't actually monitor their bandwidth :rofl:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Mr Bayliss had best hope BY don't ever cap, he's caning the connection a bit! :)

Sociable - in answer to your previous point it looks as though only very heavy users are being targetted, possibly in a particular area - I'll point you to the main 'cap' thread where the user who received a letter was, according to his friend, using 10GB a day, that's full download cap 24x7. The poster in that thread also using similar amount, I imagine that if all these are in the same area that area could well have a disproportionate amount of downstream usage compared to elsewhere in the country. Will have to see what comes to light. If it's really really heavy users changing times of usage aren't really an issue.

Kitty, what are the internal IPs you are using on your router? 192.what? Maybe 10.x ?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Since when? Are you sure? Other customers have MRTG working on SACMs, so I don't think SNMP is blocked.

Kitty, in another thread Ambit 200 in ex-C&W region: possible fix, you said:So what changed: you had MRTG working then, why not now?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Yes it is running but only logs when the router is not included. as soon as I place the router in MRTG adds nothing to the graph even though it updates it twice a day. It shows me using nothing eitherway.

Edited to add the link to MRTG on my website according to it I updated on the 18th Jan and havent used anything. take a look

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Doesn't that suggest that it's the router that's the issue not the cable modem?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Maybe the router needs a port mapped for the snmp udp packets ?

If you runs a proper server you dont have these problems. !

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I have a feeling the router doesn't like the idea of talking to the modem on 192.168.100.1, think Robin Walker has touched on this with his previous posts on the subject.

Regarding Richard M's points, fair comment, I didn't really pay that much attention to it but it does seem a bit strange both to use an http://homepages page, and the email address for 'contact us' is an @ntlworld.com one. Time will tell what the score is I guess, what's the postmark on the envelope, unless someone could fake ntl's franking machine that'd be quite a good bit of evidence, and where is the postmark from?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Nah more to do with UDP state tables on routers innit :p

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I thought it looked fishy with someone mentioning 10 gig daily downloads Yesterday. I don't see how anyone would be able to max out 24/7...

So, are there any other people that have received a letter, and if so, can we see a scanned version of it?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If you have interposed a router between your PC and the cable modem, then you will no longer be able to monitor the Ambit 200, unless you add a secondary IP address in the 192.168.100.xxx subnet to the WAN port of the router. Very few routers targeted at the domestic market can do this.

On the other hand, if you have interposed a router between the family's PCs and the cable modem, you don't need to monitor the cable modem any more: you can monitor the router itself instead (and get separate figures for each member of the family!). You just need a router which supports monitoring by SNMP, or which there are many to choose from.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

To get MRTG to run without the router I had to do Robins workround.

IPconfig gives me this now.

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.100.22
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

Open to suggestions that can make this work

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If you have made this configuration, and your PC is now behind a router, then this configuration will no longer work, and you will be blocked from accessing the cable modem. You must remove this extra IP address if you are behind a router. The extra IP address trick is only for the situation where the PC is directly connected to the cable modem.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Was a hazy memory or someone mentioning something like that in relation to the uncappers. Something like ntl use SNMP to monitor your bandwidth, and people were playing with the SNMP reporting to give false reading to ntl's monitoring software so as not to get caught. I have probably remembered incorrectly, and the problem with Kitty is the router, as you have now explained :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Let's hope that all the ntl-recommended routers do have this feature, otherwise there are going to be some very angry cutomers :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The linksys I have can't do that but it can allow the SACM to be monitored if NTL allow us to acces SNMP like blueyonder. We are not wanting to cheat anyone just access and monitor the bandwidth. really we all want the same thing just NTL don't want to allow us the tools to do it. Customers in N TL areas can get this to work its those living like me in EX C&W areas that can't. So NTL sort us out a way to work around the blockage.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think im gonna have to setup NAT routing instead of Windows ICS seen as i cant get my bandwidth monitoring working AND my other computers accessing the internet.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ICS uses NAT to route the trafic... Its the same thing.......

Can you not just monitor the packets on the nic. thats connected to the cable modem ?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

IPconfig give me this now and pinging the modem is hopeless...
My router cannot be monitored and linksys has no plans to upgrade the firmware to allow this.. My SACM is blocked by NTL.. I know my router will allow the SACM to be monitored as it is already doing it with a telewest customer. So come on NTL techies find a workround or get the bossess to allow access the SNMP. My best suggestion I have already been told over PM wil not happen and that is N TL cancel the Cap!!!!!! I shall keep my options open but be carefull NTL other services are looking more attractive than you now unless you get your act together sort out the network stop the high bonuses and put it back into the network......

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

No.... The modem via SNMP has accurate reports of upstream, downstream and its ethernet interface.... Plus MRTG Produces nice pretty graphs that i can save and then produce a month by month graphical report on usage....

Yes ICS Uses NAT BUT It doesnt like Robins fix, therefore i quit using ICS and manually configure the system and routing.....

BTW That site looks amateur, not really like something thats NTL produced.. Im not convinced until i see the letter :/

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It's not a question of NTL allowing or denying anything: it's just the way the Ambit 200 works, strictly in accordance with IP standards. If Blueyonder had Ambit 200s, it would be the same there. If you want to correspond with a device in the 192.168.00.xxx sub-net on the same LAN segment as you, then you need an IP address in the same sub-net on which to receive replies. Some brands of cable modem fudge the issue so that users can receive off-subnet replies, but Ambit don't, and they are not obligated to break the standards to achieve this.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Everything I have tried has failed I would be gratefull of you have any ideas.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I agree if I was a mod I would split it out and make a second thread about monitoring the bandwidth..

But they are both linked as if there wasn't the cap then members wouldn't be wanting to monitor the bandwidth....

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Just use this ,http://www.netlimiter.com/ ,instead.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

An Ambit SACM will display some limited information. Go to:
http://192.168.100.1/P_rate.htm
(the username and password are both 'root') and you'll see how many packets have been received and sent on each interface together with the number of seconds since the last reset and the average packets per second. I can't find anything about the number of bytes though.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Thanks Atlis - Thats a new one on me.... :)

mmm Very handy ! :)

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Thats the problem though... We Cant get access to 192.168.100.1 without reconfiguring a second ip address on the same subnet as the modem and local only with its default gateway as the cable modem.... As described in robins fix... Unfortunately this screws ICS up.....

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

That looks like it has to go on each pc I need one that will monitor the SACM which cannot be done while the SNMP is blocked

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

In case anyone is wondering if the SNMP block will be lifted, in light of the amount of cable hacks going around this is likely to be viewed EXTREMELY poorly by our security people. Our priority, rightfully, must be security first and user monitoring somewhere down the line.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Um... SNMP isnt blocked its just the modem wont respond unless the card is on a local ip and local gateway.... Also if you want to monitor our usage accurately then NTL either need to setup a system where users can monitor their own usage or let us do it ourselves (Like we've been trying)...

Tools like DU-Meter arent good for networked computers with a router connecting to the net, sometimes they are inaccurate..... If we have a bandwidth dispute with you and our tools are inaccurate then we are going to look pretty stupid when we call CS and complain....

Also if you can monitor our usage now - Why not publish it to a database by username, create a site that will let us enter our username and let it query the system and just report the amount in Total, Download, Upload we have used... Nobody cares if its in fancy graphs.. as long as its readable, accurate and does its job....

Surely it cant be that hard because your already watching us right?

With regards to cable modem hacks going around - Isnt your TFTP enforce system stopping this? To change the speed of the modem would require a modified file with the new speed allowing the modem to work at the higher speed limit. If hackers cannot upload the file via TFTP which the modem uses right? then how would it be a security risk, Also people using Robin Walkers fix will still have access anyway as long as they arent using ICS (Then the other comps cant get on the net) so either way, people can use it to monitor providing their network setup is very simple...

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

or even better make it public so we know who the hogs are.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

This should also move enforcing the AUP somewhere down the line as they are linked.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Isn't that a breach of my privacy? What gives you the right to know how I use my broadband?

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Nutty is right - it's not as simple as just allowing our bandwidth use table to be publicly accessible - there has to be authentication, legal warnings etc. It's not a small job by any means and unfortunately there are other things with higher priority. I say unfortunately as I'd love to do this as technical challenge.

I'd personally be quite in favour of allowing access to bandwidth monitoring from the line being monitored - i.e. you can see your stats via your modem but not from anywhere else. That would get round the need to authenticate, and is roughly what my ADSL ISP do (look at the RADIUS<>account detail link in that case as the authentication token).

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Ok so NTL are running speed trials upto 3mbit for their packages... I suppose we'll have this 1gb cap so that all that burning speed can be used up faster?

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

The 3Mbit turbo stuff will be limited tho, not on all the time, and you might even end up paying by the hour for it so who knows. If ntl move to a metered system, then the cap will probably go, as then ppl downloading several gigs a day will end up paying ntl loads of money anyway, and the p2p leechers wont tolerate paying loads of money, so they'll either leave or stop it.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

I was sent a link for a free program that will monitor the downloads. The older version is free the new on has a heavy licence fee.
Take a look at Object Planet but download the free one here

I was sent this link by JustAnotherNoob and it does seem to work on my connection using the routers ethernet card.

Nice one JustAnotherNoob..

Edited to add in a link to view it in use. I was listening to an online radio show something I do a lot off when I am doing college work.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

So I have to BIN my perfectly reliable domestic router that has it seems stopped any hack attempts against my household since its purchase and 2 years ago abuse@ntl recommended a firewall or better a nat router to protect me as i had been hacked and reported by someone as scanning a port. but as it probably is not SNMP compatable its to go, because you said so, a router which I have gained almost complete trust in.

1: The cap is ridiculous when the isp is promoting ics of allsorts including wireless.
2: The same RIDICULOUS cap applies accross all levels of service
3: Main problem is oversubscribed ubrs and upstreams where NTL turned around from a multi million defecit to a huge multi million profit in the last twelve months.
4: International friends of mine are pinging major uk sites hosted by ntl and all too often getting appaling results, and this is because the minority of uk ntl domestic user are hammering the service ?
5: IF ntl wish to enforce a nazi regime cap with vigour spend your profit on server side monitoring that we the customers have access to
then you can compare us to the nazi government regime of government owned isp's in AU, who I hasten to add are raising and removing the caps from many packages. You wont do this because you know your customer base will drop below 1 million qucker than it got there

A usage limit is fair when that usage limit is set fairly, and inline with current internet content and teared with the different levels of service.

150k users dont need a 1GB cap that will almost max them
600k users on a multi box household can easily push a couple of gig daily, tho it would probably average out less.
1Meg users should of course have the highest allowance

there are many 150k users who will just simply not upgrade their connection
thats loss to ntl.

and further you can subscribe to a extra service of rich multimedia content which ntl act as agents for and promote that will easily put you in the class of ""NTL ABUSER CUZ I USE THE SERVICE IM PAYING FOR"".

this is of course real business sense isnt it
SPEND SOME OF THAT PROFIT ON MORE UBRS A PROPER MONITORING SERVICE FAIR CAPS and you may just be the first isp to get 2 million subscribers.
Money leads to money when re-invested properly, greed just leeds to poverty

Or keep up with the current plan send a customer an abusive letter enforcing something thats not monitorable, your customers will leave in droves as the word spreads. There are many adsl packages offering cap free 2mbit services and more @ 1mbit
On top of this with all the holes in windows etc its real easy to be hacked and turned into a server unless you have respectable computer literacy that is a further risk.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

what use is that its just another client side app that cannot monitor multi box house holds behind a router.

If ntl cant provide an interface for us then how do they expect us to monitor our useage.
I know theyd like to think they can get away with customers have no need to monitor just like a telephone, but there are differences, and the internet is more like and electricity hook up than a telephone, only real difference between electricity and cable BB is watts to bytes. and the trouble with any cap is this is coming down the tv line which we TV is only restricted by channel quantity by our service level we pay for, and many have had cable modems with no such guidline cap for a good year or more of service.

And no way a 1GB cap is fair accross all service levels anyway, if they enforce it harshly it will only equal many 1meg users dropping to 600k and, 600k users dropping to 150 with many from 600 and 1meg leaving alltogether. With that word will spread just as fast to potential future customers who will also look for altenatives. Then they will have to up the price of all tears which will just drive more away existing customers and those contemblating BB

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

mrtg works fine for me:confused: :confused:

will post screenies when i get home.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

The biggiest problem is if you are in an EX cable and Wireless area then you haven't got access to use MRTG. you can't eve ping it and do a docsis... NTL have it blocked due to security problems.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Has anyone found a program that will monitor Internet traffic with a LAN (Linksys Wireless-G router)?

I am in a ex-C&W area, with a STB, and a LAN. I've always used DUMeter which is nice, but it includes 'inside' LAN traffic as well as traffic going 'outside', which is going to screw up my log.

Has anyone found a good app that will monitor traffic going outside from my computer (and preferably the others, but i'll tolerate it from my desktop only), but ignore the general LAN traffic? I use RealVNC which is really bandwidth heavy so that does have a big impact on my log. I've poked around and searched, but I can't seem to see a solution for STB/ex-C&W people. I might be getting a SACM soon (providing they don't hit me with a new contract) for the speed upgrade, is it any easier with that?

Thanx.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

It's probably been said before but your best bet might be to get an old 486 (mine from from the tip) and use that as a router. Try IPCop, that has MRTG built in.

One nice thing about this solution is that you can use it to get around all the NTL related cock-ups. With a Linksys router, very often the DHCP would run out and not automatically renew, killing overnight downloads or online games. I set up a cron script to automatically renew the lease if it was less than 6 hours, repeatedly every 10 seconds until it's over 6 hours again. You can also run a transparent web proxy and dns cache, which reduces your bandwidth use.

Compared to the Linksys, it can cope with things like eMule which opens 500 connections at a time. The Linksys tends to drop them randomly after a while.

I reckon the 486 costs about £2/month to run, and cost me nothing. I modded the PSU fan to run on 5V so now it's nice and quiet too. I'd look for a low end Pentium or Cyrix though, as the web interface is a bit slow on a 486.

Tip: If you are already using a Linksys or other router, try changing the routers MAC address to the same one as the WAN side NIC in your 486 and registering it with NTL first. Then, when you swap over to the 486, you won't have to register and everything will just work.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

If you're using a WRT54g, why consider a 3rd party firmware? www.sveasoft.com it adds a load of features:

Local DNS Server
Static DHCP (thanks for Wumpus and Sveasoft forum for this patch)
Autorun Bash Shell Script (ABSS)
Restored Ping hack functionality
Transmit Power Hack Built-In (!!)
Antenna Diversity Selection
Support for DYNDNS Custom
Remote Wake On Lan Support
Added Support for 255.255.0.0 and 255.0.0.0 Lan Net Mask
Working Multi PPTP Passthrough
SNMP support
Latest BusyBOX installed
Worldwide Channel support 1-14 even in US release
Added Status page with uptime and CPU load info
Added more Server Profiles (Ident, MSN, VNC, et cetera) for Port Forwarding
Added Reboot Router/Service button (Administration) for soft reboot router OR manual reboot all Service
Fixed Linksys' problem with FTP Passive mode
Added support for ZoneEdit.com
Added Server Profiles for easy port forwarding w/ 20 templates

VPN features
------------
VPN (PPTP) server (Up to 1024 clients but max 5 due to RAM limit)
Support for WAN connect to Local PC behide WRT54G VPN
Support for VPN to WAN, using like a router VPN
Full Compress and Crypto mode, Faster/Better with full M.S 64/128 Bits Crypto
Full support for Windows 9x/2K/XP and Linux with PPTP Client

Added Telnet access to router- features:
-------------
Password protection (logon: root & password: same as router)
Turn on/off Telnetd service (Under Administration->Management)
Auto block telnet access from WAN to LAN

Including native SNMP and firewall monitoring via WallWatcher http://www.sonic.net/wallwatcher/

It works really well.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Ahh, cheers for that. I'm a bit worried though, if I change the firmware to a third party one, and something goes wrong (only half transfers/gets corrupted or something), is there a way to reset it (without going into the admin page, like a button) so if anything goes wrong I can go back to the original firmware instead of permanantly damaging my router?

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Hmm, the reset button on the router. The base firmware is encoded into permanent ram and cannot be removed.

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

Ahh cheers for that guys :tu: :)

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

I've tried a number of the 3rd party firmwares on my 54g but always seem to keep coming back to the ligit one! - PRTG did work though I do remember - I think I was having some wireless (MAC Address) problems which is why I resorted to the offical linksys one again!

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

SNMP it's dead jim :(

Re: Monitoring bandwidth behind a router
 

So I noticed from the 207 emails today reporting snmp timeouts :-(

*sigh*

--
Eusa