US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

the first citizenship ceremony in the uk is due to take place later this month.

90,000 applications are successful on a yearly basis, anyone wishing to go ahead with the citizenship must pay £68 each, and must pledge allegiance to the queen, and sing the national anthem.

damn right!!!!

source: bbc news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3453105.stm

i agree with this idea :)

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

"At present the system, whereby people become British citizens, is conducted by post."


Gee. That isn't very good, eh? I've been naturalized several times over, and they all involved taking oaths, singing anthems, and passing knowledge and language tests.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Is that where you take all your clothes off and run naked and free?
Bit cold for that this time of year isn't it? :D

Exams and oaths and stuff only give you immigrants who know more about the country than the natives do.
Most american's born in the states would fail.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

They are taught it all at school and have to pledge allegiance every morning an assembly. Most High School / College students should be able to pass. But adults, like you and I do you think you could pass all you GCSE / O / A / Degree exams today without revision?

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I've lived here all of my life, and I don't think that I could sing the National Anthem

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

i fear the same is true here also :(

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I think I could manage the first verse, but I learned that at cubs/scouts not school. I'm sure that says something about our education system and the lack of nationalism.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Well, Jerrek should know it as it's his national anthem too :D

God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and Glorious,
Long to reign over us;
God save the Queen!


O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall;
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
Oh, save us all!


Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!


Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world o'er!

From every latent foe,
From the assassin's blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!

In love's endearments fond,
In wedlock's holy bond,
Blest be our Queen.
In her blest progeny,
We future Monarchs see,
Of England bold and free,
God save the Queen!

Lord let wars' tempest cease;
Fold the whole world in peace
Under thy wings.
Make all the nations one;
All hearts beneath the sun;
Till Thou shalt reign alone;
Great King of Kings.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I assume this verse is so little used that the King has not been changed to Queen!

Why does the corrected version of that last line make me think of "Will and Grace", line from Will to Jack i feel.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

It's actually refering to Jesus in that verse

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

:blush: :dunce: I'll get me coat :sulk:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

And as if by magic, Russ appears :D

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I knew it! You're the shop keeper!

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Once again, I'm puzzled. You mean to say you guys never sing your national anthem? What about in school?

In the United States, we sang the national anthem every day in class. Fridays, when we had assembly, we would all stand while the Bible was being read, and then two flags are carried in by seniors. One on the left, and one on the right of the assembly hall. One was the Flag of the United States and one was the flag of the State I was in (Texas). Once they reach the front, they face the audiance, and hold the flag pole at a 45 degree angle. We would then stand on attention, with your hand on your heart, and pledge allegiance, and then sing the anthem, all of it.

During the week, we just pledged allegiance and sang the anthem in class. There was no flags being carried in, although each classroom has a flag or two.


In Canada, there is no pledge, but we still sang O Canada every morning.


And yes, I know God Save the Queen. :) Beautiful song.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I am gonna put a random 'jesus' in a post just to see if Russ's 'Jesus bot' picks it up!! :)

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

No, we don't brainwash our kids into thinking our country is the best.
Maybe we should, perhaps being British we wouldn't come across as arrogant as americans do with that view.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

No never. I remember once in school, when I was about 7, the NA was played in assembly. The teacher then berated everyone for not standing up during it, we were 7 for #!£$"s sake.

I never stand nor sing the NA for the simple fact that I do not believe in what it is saying.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

How is pledging allegiance to one's country "brainwashing into thinking our country is the best?"

How is singing your national anthem "brainwashing into thinking our country is the best?"

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Being made to repeat a mantra day after day is a well known form of brainwashing :pp

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

You didn't answer my questions. I tell someone every day "I love you" too, and I don't consider that brainwashing.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

So everytime you say "I love you" it's a concious effort?
You never find yourself saying it out of habbit?

(you do know I'm teasing don't you?)

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

It's the compulsion element that is unsettling Jerrek

An oath or pledge given voluntarily means something but forced repetition diminishes its credibility and becomes a mockery of the original pledge with people simply paying lip service to the words without actually meaning them.

Perhaps what has happened in the UK is that we have grown up a little and finally realised that being a good citizen has nothing to do with giving blind allegiance to the State.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Yes, what sociable said, that's what I meant

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Who said it is compulsory? If you don't want to say the pledge, you don't hve to. If you don't want to sing the national anthem, you don't have to.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

However I think the act in itself makes american citizen think of themselves less of an individual, but as part of a nation.

I believe a lot of the social problems now occuring in this country are down to the fact that we don't think as a nation but as individuals.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Yes indeed. It forms bonds of association. If I'm in some god-forsaken country in this world, my face always brightens when I hear an American/Canadian accent. If an earthquake strikes California, I feel a lot more pain than a simliar earthquake hitting people I don't know.

The more I associate with someone, the more inclined I am to feel his or her pain, joy, and other emotions. And I do think that pledging allegiance and singing the national anthem as a nation does a lot for the soul. :)

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Mine too :D :LOL:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

America has alot of the same social problems, often worse than we do.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Ahh and thereby hangs the reputation of the US and so many other nation states. "My country right or wrong".

Perhaps remembering we are all citizens of the world with duties and responsibilities to all humanity regardless of nation, creed, religion or anything else that divides us is the key.

Flag waving jingoism only serves to divide and antagonize and has no place in a modern world IMHO.

Accepting that a child's tears carry the same pain where ever they are shed is therefore my personal point of reference.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Though in parts I think it is a lot better than the UK. Where my wife comes from in upstate NY seems far more socially cohesive than, say Hertford where we live.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I can only speak for North America, not England, but try rural areas. Cities are traditionally more liberal, hence more social problems.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Which is pretty much the same here, go out to a village and people are generally welcoming and open.
Go to the cities or suburbs and it can be totally different.

I think it was "the Human Animal" documentary that showed it best.
They got a bloke to colapse in a village, and within seconds a shop owner had rushed out of her shop to see if he was ok, and other people were coming to assist.
Then he did the same in a city, and people just walked around him. It was ages before anyone stopped to see if he was ok.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I do not care for the rest of the world. They are merely other people. I do not believe in this new age concept of "citizen of the world." My allegiance lies to the United States, Canada, and Her Majesty the Queen. I do not owe allegiance to any other. I am not a citizen fo the world. They do not need me, nor do I particularly care what they do. It is none of my business, unless an ally is involved.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Antagonize? Why do you feel antagonistic if I wave my flag? Aren't you PROUD to be British?

And who says division is bad? Of course I want to divide. I'm different from Brazil. I'm different from the French. I don't WANT to be like them.

But if given a choice saving only one life, and having to choose between my neighbor's kid or some kid in a faraway country I don't know, I will FIRST take care of those I associate with. I will take care of my own family, friends, and people FIRST. THEN, and only then, anyone else.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Well, if your opinion is that flag waving, singing national anthems, and pledging allegiance does nothing for social cohesion, then why are you objecting to it? You're saying exactly opposite of what Sociable is saying.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Translated - The conservatives have found a new hook to use as a convenient excuse on which to hang social problems

Don`t worry, there are some enlightened countries such as France that feel the same way about the USA. I only wish the UK had the same outlook on America.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

What you quoted was in reference to the suggestion that pledging etc solves social problems, and I pointed out that america has the same social problems as the UK, and in some cases worse problems than the UK.
This then led to the point that there is a difference between people in urban and rural areas.
Sorry that you didn't understand that bit form the posts, hopefully now you do, and can see that this had nothing to do with what sociable was saying.

Now, sociable was saying that it can cause alienation, rather than trying to build a better world, it promotes the idea that your own nation is fine (even though it doesn't acutally make a difference to the social problems that all nations have) and so you end up not giving a damn about the rest of the world (as you have expresed) and such shortsightedness eventually catches up with you, as the world is linked (never heard of the world recession?)

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

We've been brought up to dislike our country and have let the National Front take over flag waving until it became socially unacceptable. Onlyin the last 4 years or so since the Football and Rugby world cups has flag flying / waving been deemed more acceptable.

But by helping a neighbours child you are being a world citizen, not selfish and self centred.

Seems we are back to the national anthem (now I have read and understood this verse)
Did anyone read that euro tripe republic anthem yesterday? Thats almost on topic to this thread.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Not solving, helping. And, I didn't raise the point. My point is that it helps social cohesion, and that stands. You're making a very, very broad generalization. I'm sure there is merit in it, but I'm sure there is another side too. For sure we do have social problems, but my lack of experience in England prevents me from commenting on this.


I am not interested in building a "better world" when we have so many problems in North America. I'm sure the world can manage without us.

How? How does it promote the idea that your own nation is fine? You really don't get the meaning of singing the national anthem or pledging allegiance, eh?

Oh and you still haven't answered my original two questions.

It isn't that I don't care about the rest of the world, it is just that there is enough problems this side to keep us busy for a long time. Anyways, the rest of the world hates us so much. Why should we care? They just want to kill us, as all liberals are keen on pointing out.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I'd be very, very depressed. I'm a patriotic kind of guy, and I like flag waving and all these thingies attached with it. Why would you be brought up to dislike your country? You have much to be proud of. It certainly is better than all of Europe. :) It is different here. I didn't have a country, but now I have, and I will bring my kids up to be proud of who they are, their country, their anthem, and the pledge.

No. Citizen implies allegiance. This new age liberal movement loves to quote how we are "citizens of the world," meaning, there is some higher form of world government.

THERE IS NOT. I have NOT sworn an oath to any world government. My allegiance lies with my countries, and my Queen.

And I don't see helpign a neighbor's child makes you a world citizen.



Europe now has an anthem?

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I don't think this country is great, I know it is (sure it's not perfect and has some major problems, but it has some major merits too)
I am proud to be British.
But I don't need to wave a flag, or pledge allegiance because of that.
I think this is probably because as a Brit, I'm more reserved, if something is good, why do you need to shout about it?

To me, part of being British is realising that no matter where people are from, they're still people.
If someone asks for our help, Britain should give as much as it possibly can.

I think one of the reasons why america has such a poor international image is the selfish attitude of people like yourself Jerrek.
As a state it has a history of sticking it's head in the sand and letting the world burn, until it looks like america's interest might be affected.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

The European Anthem - adapted from the final movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony - was adopted by the Council of Europe in 1972. It is also used by the European Union. Herbert von Karajan, one of the greatest conductors of this century, acceded to a request by the Council of Europe to write three instrumental arrangements for solo piano, wind and symphonic orchestras.

The musical unions of four member states founded the dynamic Orchestre d'Harmonie des Jeunes de l'Union EuropÃÃâ€*’©enn e in 1988 to promote new European works for wind orchestra. Some seventy of the most talented young wind players are selected each year to study and tour together throughout the European Union.

and I'll go looking for that piece where they are putting lyrics to it! :eek:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

EU fanatics' dire anthem
BRITONS face having to sing a European anthem praising the EU †œmotherland,ÃÃ⠀šÃ‚¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚Â� it was revealed last night.

Europeââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s top bureaucrat Romano Prodi has been given new words to go with the existing European hymn, Beethovenââ‚ ¬â„¢s Ode To Joy.

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2004050795,00.jpg

But Austrian academic Dr Peter Rolandââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s lyrics sparked fury with their Soviet and Nazi overtones.

There are ominous echoes of Stalinââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s imperialist Soviet regime in the line †œ ... freedom for its people in a bigger motherland.âââ€Å ¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�

The lyric is a dead ringer for one from the old Soviet anthem, †œ ... sing to the motherland, home of the free.ââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�

Shadow Foreign Secretary Michael Ancram fumed: †œThe people of Britain should give nil points to this EU anthem.

†œRomano Prodi and his friends, Mr Blair included, should abandon their ill-thought-out plans for a European superstate.ââ ¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ÂÂ�

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2004050796,00.jpg

Frank Rosier, of the Normandy Veteransââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ Association, also blasted the †œMotherlandÃƚ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚à ‚ÂÂ� ode, saying: †œItÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ ’¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€Å ¾Ã‚¢s a load of rubbish.

†œI canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t see anybody celebrating a Mother Europe.ââ‚à ‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�

Matthew McGregor, of the anti-euro No Campaign, said: †œBritish people donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t want to be swallowed up in a single state with its own flag and anthem.ââ‚à ‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�

Dr Roland, of Viennaââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s Europa Academy, gave a CD of the song to Mr Prodi yesterday.

A European Commission spokesman said it was merely a †œpersonal giftâ₠¬Ã‚Â�.

LEADING Eurosceptic Tory Sir Teddy Taylor, 66 †� MP for Rochford and Southend East †� is to stand down at the next General Election.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004051431,00.html

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I don't I implied that it is needed, but it sure feels nice. Don't you love singing your national anthem? Don't you just love showing you're from Great Britain? Don't you just like experessing yourself?

So the world can't govern itself without the United States' help and assistance? Why should we help others, when we have so much internal problems?



Now tell me, would be proud singing the European Union anthem, or the British anthem? Do you feel proud when you see the E.U. flag? Or when you see the Union Jack?

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Why would I need to express to everyone else that I am proud of being British?
I know I'm proud to be British, what's it to anyone else?

So you'd have no problem if america had stood by and let europe become a Nazi superpower?
Or even under control of the Kaiser?

A flag is just a flag, a song is just a song (a kiss is just a kiss)

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Its a Union Jack on a boat, a Union Flag on land.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Jerrek, I mean this with the greatest of respect, can you not realise that other countries don't always do things the American way? We have our own ways of doing things!

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I heard a very good explaination of this on the radio some months ago.

If you are brought up to believe your way is the best way, you find it difficult to understand why other people don't also see how wonderful your way is.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Not in the slightest, we have one of the worst national anthems in the world, a truly terrible piece of music.

At least Ode to Joy is a decent piece of music.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Not so sure about being brought up to dislike it, IMHO its more a case that we've allowed ourselves to fall foul of a few things and to get side tracked about it.

For a couple of generations after WW2 and the Nazis, many Germans felt they had to be ashamed to be German because of what some of their countrymen did. Too many liberals have shouted and been heeded that we also should be ashamed of being British because we once had an empire and did some pretty horrible things.

People didn't want to offend the waves of Asian and Jamaican immigrants entering the country despite the fact that many of them were already more patriotic than some of the natives.

A lot of the issues with unionism in the 70's were wrongly put across as nationalism, in that the unions where fighting for a better Britain when really what they were fighting for was power and high profiles for their leadership. That their membership almost benefited as well was IMO a bit of a bonus on the side.

The History syllabus in schools changed a lot during the last 30 years, kids were no longer taught about Great Britain and its peoples achievements.

Brits generally are more reserved than our cousin's across the pond and I think that also has had its impact with parents declining to sing the countries praises and the only influence's about being negative, many have forgotten what being British is all about.

All great civilisations have peaks and troughs ours has been at a low for some time now perhaps thanks to it being politically correct again to fly the flag we can start to climb again.

To answer the thread title, yes!!! bloody good idea it should be compulsory for all as they come of age. No one should automatically become a citizen just because they were born and raised in ignorance in any country, why should people be allowed to vote on the future governance of a country when they don't know about both the good and bad of its history, its traditions, its values and its diverse peoples.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

i agree whilst i 'love' this country and would protect it, i know it has its faults no country is perfect and the US portrays itself as an 'almighty peacekeeping we are the best country in the world' i would call that arrogance.

some people will say its the american way.........

same here......... :eek:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

If you can't find a need, then you wouldn't understand. It is a personal thing. You may not like it or approve, but respect the rights of others to be proud AND express it. I will likewise respect your right to hide your national identity.

I was talking in general, and I believe it was quite clear. There are always exceptions, and those tend to come around a couple of times a century. So my question still stands. You haven't answered it.

Perhaps to a bacterium, but the human mind has the ability to form memories and associations. That is why something can have more meaning to others than to one person. And to me, a flag, song, and kiss can carry a whole lot more than just the act.


And Xaccers, you STILL haven't answered my two questions. How is singing and reciting a pledge brainwashing?


So Russ, you're saying that it is only Americans that do these things? Ridiculous. Its been going on for centuries. It is done in Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, China, Malaysia, South Africa, etc. It is hardly an American thing, but if you want to disagree, go ahead. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't believe everything I hear on the radio, and I do not believe this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

This isn't about the best way. It is about expressing who you are. It is a personal opinion. It just so happens Americans and Canadians and the rest of the world except Europe seems to be more proud of their national heritage than you guys, and Europeans seem to have a major fit with that. For some reason.


Join the club. So were teh Spanish, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Americans, Canadians, etc. Everyone has some skeletons in their closet. It doesn't, however, change the fact that you may have made significant achievements.

I couldn't give a damn if they feel offended. They can leave.

That is a shame. Its quite different here. We are taught of our achievements, AND, we are taught about the achievements of other nations, including Great Britain.

But if France is doing it, it is OK.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

ummm.... thats a very tolerant attitude you have - imagine that sort of attitude on a national level, and you might get some idea why north america seems to put alot of peoples backs up...... .

that could be your problem right there - if all you learn is how great your cournty is/was, that will naturally lead to a national feeling of arrogance.... ALOT more can be learned of your nations failings....and how to make sure they dont happen again...

ummm, France is a peacekeeping nation - you seen them wage wars on anyone for the alleged benefit of the planet?, nope. see, cos unlike the USA thay DONT see themselves as the best country in the world, and have no massive chip on their shoulder that needs feeding all the time....

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

That attitude is directed at immigrants who "might be offended," not my fellow citizens.

We learn both. But people ignore history, hence liberals exist. And if you're going to tell me not to teach my country the greatness of their own country, then I'm not going to listen to you and just feel sorry. I do have a sense of national pride.

Have you heard of Ivory Coast?

And if France is such a great peacekeeping nation, why the hell is the United States keeping peace in Eastern Europe? Why did you need the United States to fix two world wars, and recently Serbia?

You've apparently never been to France.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Lets see, WW1, WW2, Falklands, Suez to name more than a couple of situations where America has turned it's back on it's allies.

If some nations have the ability to help the world then it would be dishonourable not too. This does not mean ignoring problems at home, infact, if you think about it, america could ask other countries to help with it's own problems. I know it's easy for you to forget, but America is part of the world, so included in the better world that could be built.

*JOY* I'm a bacterium now.

Read my post about repeating mantras :rolleyes:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

i thought north amarica was 'the land of the free' - free of bigotry, oppression and the like?.... so is it a case of we're all equal, but, we're more equal than immigrants?...... all the more ironic as you were an immigrant yourself wernt you??

i am quietly proud of my country - like others in this thread - but i dont feel the need to scream it at the top of my lungs tho - british understatement perhaps?
i would however deliberatly keep quiet if my country was the most hated on the planet, whilst i figured out why that was.....


ahhhhh..... THAT old chestnut. the US of A saving us out of the goodness of their own heart....and nothing, oddly enough, to do with realising that they would be deep in the mire if europe fell.
i love how yanks extol how the US is in so many countries keeping the peace - yet neglect to mention the US had either invaded that country or in some way contributed to its political collapse in the first place!!


ummmm...only lived there for 7 years......

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

You missed out:

"God grant that Marshall Wade
"With thy almighty aid,
"Victory bring.
"May he sedition hush,
"And like a torrent rush
"Rebellious Scots to crush!
"God save the Queen"

(Just to annoy all the Scots :D )

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

If you don't, people may consider you to be "unpatriotic"

There again (and I'm trying to remember where I read this) I recall a story of a British Teacher (female IIRC) who went to teach in the who was told off by the Headmaster for not standing up during the Pledge of Alliegence or the singing of the Star Spangled Banner.

Her response was (quite reasonably) that it wasn't her Pledge or Anthem and, as such, she didn't feel they should stand up for it, however the Headmaster insisted.

So the next day after the singing, she brought out a cassette recorder and stood to attention whilst "God Save the Queen" played.

After that she was excused attending assemblies!

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

There are *ALL SORTS* of things I could say here...!!! :rofl: :rofl:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

You've dodged the question. I'm not assuming America is the only country to do that. I'm asking why it is Americans always seem to assume everything is done around the world the same way as it's done in the States.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I do not see how this relates to me telling immigrants to leave if they get offended in my country by my customs.

I didn't say that, did I? You need to really learn to read.

Oh damn, and I sensed their superiority complex within 5 minutes of going through customs.



Anyways, this discussion is going nowhere. My point is, I am proud of who I am, and I do not feel a need to hide it or stick it under a rock. I sing my anthem with pride, and my kids will sing it each day in school. I have pledged allegiance, and my kids will do the same thing. (And don't come back with the brainwashing crap, because you still haven't explained how it is considered brainwashing.) You may disagree, but I doubt the entire of the UK would feel the need to hide their heritage. I will respect your right to hide it, if you respect my right NOT to hide it. :)

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Gross generalization. I for one don't. BUT, I guess it just didn't enter my mind that people would want to hide their flag under a rock.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Will you respect our right not to hear you (generically speaking) keep on about it all the time?

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Sorry but each time we have a discussion about things here that you did not know about you always seem to very surprised because "that's not how it's done in the States". I'm sure not all Americans are like that but after living in Oxford for 6 months and due to my job meeting MANY Americans every day, I certainly know that a LOT of them do the same.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

To be honest that doesn't bother me. It's the "it must be a bad idea because it came from you (socialist europe, liberals etc)" attitude that I find hard to swallow.

Ultimately America has to and will make it's own decisions, I just wish they weren't so stubborn/arrogant about listening to advice/opinion.