Top up fees
 

I don't see anything wrong with university top up fees


after all why we should subsidise somebody to be a lawyer

so they can fleece us when they become one?

Re: Top up fees
 

Because the lawyer will pay a truckload of tax one day?

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Not only that - if they become a lawyer, they'll be able to pay of their loans...

I am totally in favour of the fees. Best thing Tony Blair ever thought of :)

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Then we should bring in the case, why should my taxes, after i finish university and am paying off the minimum of £20,000 of debt i am going to be in to pay for my education, pay for other peoples childrens education.

Not everyone is going to be a well paid lawyer you know. By raising the tuition fees, he is going to cripple a lot of people who want to do better in their life.

Just remember, his eductaion was paid for by the government. Why shouldn't mine.

By the way, i have to pay the full load for tuition, fees, parents can't afford to pay that much, and i get the minimum loan, which does not even cover my rent. Thats why to pay for my education, i have to skip lectures and classes, so i can work to afford it. Pathetic

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Don't take this the wrong way, but try getting a job, paying your stamp for 15 years, barely covering your rent, and being told that although I paid my way my entire adult working life, I get sweet FA from our government such as affordable housing, discounts on council tax, any chance of a state pension by the time I retire etc etc...? :shrug:

University education is a luxury, not a necessity. You want it, you pay for it.

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I agree, but only because I fully expect him to lose the vote and it prove to be the issue that forces him out of office.

As for the argument about lawyers put by Ramrod, that assumes that they are all going to become that kind of lawyer. What about those that go into public prosecution? Arguably they are providing a valuable service to society, so why should society not pay for that service?

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I didn't start the lawyers thing.... :)....but thats a good point.

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So in this Britain, what your saying is, only the rich should be able to get ahead, only the rich should be able to get the education, to get them the good jobs, but widen the gap between rich and poor.

I do sympathise with your situation orangebird, and maybe thats why people do want to go to university, that can get them jobs to pay for the future. Unfortunetly Blair has decided that only people who can afford £3000 per year will be able to do that. If was starting uni looking at £3000 minimum then i would have to think twice

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I thought the fee was 'up to' £3k? Not all universities will be charging the maximum...

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I was paying £6000+ a year :erm:

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where i am have said they will be charging £3k a year. thats on top of £3k in housing if you move to the area, on top of £1125 tuition fees if like me you have to pay full amount.

thats on top of food and essential living of about £30 a week

so in the 40 weeks i would be here i would be paying £8000

as opposed to the abuot £6000 i am paying now. its a lot of difference....

Re: Top up fees
 

True, but it's another reason why it's going to create a divide. Popular universities, where courses are oversubscribed will be charging the maximum because they can get it. So admission is less likely to be based on academic qualifications and more on who can afford to pay for it.

I don't think that a university education is a luxury, and whilst not a necessity I think that it is something that should be available for absolutely anyone who wants it not something that should be available to only those who can afford it.

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True, but is that still not enough, what we are being told is, that you will only get into certain uni's (probably the better ones) if you have enough cash. Nothing to do with brains, or anything like that?

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Ah, that'll be me subconsciously merging two posts together. Just as well it wasn`t with anything that could potentially be offensive. :)

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I think the interesting thing in all this is the assumption that people will want to go to university when top up fees are activated.

A degree is not the gateway to success it used to be. Lots of people have proved that they can earn loads of money without one.

I suspect that the introduction of top up fees is a mechanism to deter people from going to university and thereby to allow the government to reduce spending on Higher Education.

Most of the measures the government has introduced have been aimed at raising cash, because essentially, after all the money they have wasted, they no longer have the funds to finance the manifesto they campaigned on at the election.

Think about all the stealth taxes, the raids on pension funds, the financial punitive measures imposed on business by the Inland Revenue, congestion charges, toll roads, speed cameras and top-up fees. They are all measures designed to screw every last penny out of the public.

Isn't it funny that we managed to live quite comfortably and things worked reasonably well without all these things before.

Funny too, that we don't have enough police, teachers, nurses, doctors, radiographers, firemen, midwives etc. and that most public services are in crisis.

If people don't go to university, I wonder how many other professions will end up being in short supply.

Maybe what we need are better politicians who can make wiser decisions about public spending, without the need to waste vast amounts of money and without the need to create an elitist life style for themselves in the process.

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This was one of the promises in the last election, that he would not touch tuition fees

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Guess wat he lied :rofl: :rofl:

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Again and again and again. :rolleyes:

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I believe that the aim is to get about 50% of school leavers in further education, but wonder whether every 2nd job in the country really needs a degree. Surely there's going to be a lot of folks that just scrape through & never get that high paying job, but still drag home enough to have to pay back their £20k.

What a ghastly decision to have to evaluate when you're 18.

Alan

Re: Top up fees
 

...and even more have proved that you can still earn b*gger all money with one. I am worried that this will stop people taking up courses in arts and humanities, which would be a great shame.

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What? A govornment? Surely not! :D
Of course, with this kind of thing going on, anything could happen! :rofl:

Re: Top up fees
 

I think the way things are the worry is whether young people will want to take up ANY courses under these conditions.

We could be faced with a situation where fewer people, whether from middle or working class backgrounds, get to university. That would have massive implications for society.

Re: Top up fees
 

from todays Times:

Re: Top up fees
 

I am a president of a students' union in greater manchester, I cannot believe that people are favour of top-up fees, nor do they fully understand what the bill means for education.

While the bill includes the removal of up-front fees, the fees need to be paid back at a rate which is supposed to be generous, which to be honest isn't, include a young family, taxation, a mortgage, living expensives, commitments, and the repayments this will leave people poorer.

Variable fees of up-to £3,000 on university courses is a solution of which I cannot understand, take my example, more money is needed, but universities will be giving back a bursary which will be capped at 10%, so thats £300, and if the student was to receive the full £1250 means test grant for there fees, money which they won't see, that will leave the system back where it currently is.

Middle class families, families like my own, will lose out, while the richer will be able to pay, I won't. I already have to pay £1,125 for my fees per year, which my family cannot afford, although the governments says they can. I receive the lowest student loan threshold, £3,000, which doesn't cover the cost of accomondation, and my fees alone. What happens with all the stationary I need for my course, course expenses such as books, researching etc. general living expenses such as travelling, food, phone bills, heating, lighting, water etc. I am under a scheme that leaves me £2,000+ poorer a year, and the governments proposals won't help they will only make it worse, I will not be entitled to any grants. I will be paying more for my education, and be more in debt. FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

The system of education is changing, where currently people enter HE into degrees, there will be more call for students to enter foundation degree, to gain more basic skills, to develop themselves for the degree course, this will mean more time at university, which is more money.

More food for thought, what happens if a student achieves below standard in a semester due to illness, family problems, stress, death to family etc. believe me it happens, and it can effect students for years not months, I know because I see them everyday.

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I wasn't going to post to this thread mainly because I can barely keep my temper together over this issue.

However I will say that thus far you have all raised the points that I would have and still don't think the present,present,present dammit (there isn't even a smiley that covers what they are....) ****ing,greedy,lying,cheating,****poor excuse for a government.

Incog. :mad:

Re: Top up fees
 

Hear Hear. Can the Government honestly think that they can get away with all of this, and still stay in power. I don't think a lot of people want to go back to the days with the Tories, so that only leaves Lib Dems, so that pretty much means the UK is screwed.

Re: Top up fees
 

As a student who is already paying fees and is in employment.

They're an aweful idea, they ARE going to discourage "normal" working and middle class people from going, and will force people to goto the "lesser" universities, HOWEVER, what noone seems to realise is that this 3billion shortfall universities need is not that the "better" ones need more than the lesser ones, but that they ALL need more cash, so you'll see Newcastle to Central Lancs to Oxford all charging £3000 eventually. Noone will charge £1000 at all.

Im in favour of us students paying it back, but if we do earn over £15,000 (then we start paying back 42% of out income. thats more than someone earning £100,00 0 a year! and thats NOT our top rate of tax, if i earn £100,00 0 i would end up paying about 60% of my income to the government, so whats the point of going to university in the 1st place? i could work in a shoe shop and earn £15,000 and only pay something like 20% tax and be better off than someone earning that and with a degree.

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I'm at Uni, and have no problem paying for my degree when I finish it, after all, the poxy £500 student load I get is hardly going to cripple me is it?

Another point is that you will be able to pay back your fees AFTER you graduate, rather than while you study, thats got to be a good thing :erm:

Re: Top up fees
 

I'm puzzled here, where do you get the 42% of income figure from please? :confused:

afaik it is 9% of disposable income.

That means a person earning 20000 per annum would pay back about £74.00 a month.

BTW I am not in favour of the system - just asking. :)

Re: Top up fees
 

i think they should have done it differently.
jobs the country needs (Doctors, Teachers etc..) should be free as long as you sign up to the nhs/school etc for a minimum number of years.

any one else to want to take a media studies, beckham nonsense type courses should pay the full wack.

Re: Top up fees
 

The problem is that after you graduate you have to start paying it back. Unless you are in a damn well paid job, that will be difficult, espacially if you have any notions of buying a house as well.
Education should be free (in this country)

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Afaik teachers are treated differently and get around 50% of their fees paid for by the local authority. :)

It still doesn't excuse the general concept though. :(

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It was on breakfast with Frost on Sunday, Charles Kennedy said it as did Frost :-D

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Ah, but presumably that is the total amount you would pay (Including NI and income tax)?

While I see your point, I don't think the comparison is completely valid. You wouldn't be paying back for the rest of your life. If you were to earn 100k (unlikely I know), you'd have paid off the student debt in no time ;)

Re: Top up fees
 

THE GOVERNEMTN WON!

(B*st*rds!!!!!!!)

I look forward to a life of no-money and a debt hanging over my head for like froever now! :mad:

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I'd love to know what double dealing has taken place this time to get mp's to change their minds. :rolleyes:

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Probably had their testicles in a vice :D

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Even the women??? :eek:

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They may look like women.... ;) :D

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They are the vice :naughty:

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If you earned 100k a year and paid 60% of your wage towards your debt surely you'd pay it off in about 6 months max ? Unless your student debt is over 30k that is :)

I agree with what someone said earlier, if you are doing a degree in a subject which is needed in the UK, doctor, nurse, teacher, then it should be free. If you are doing a degree in david beckham you should be forced to pay it all. If you are doing it in something else its somewhere in between, which it will be when the top up fees are introduced. I'm all for the top up fees but I'm also for a lowering in the target of 50% to goto university. The fact is, there are too many crap universities out there handing out crap degrees which do nobody any good.

At the end of the day, if you want to have a university education you should contribute to the cost of it. You are going to benefit from it so you help to pay towards it. If you don't think you'll benefit from the degree and the debt is too scary to be saddled with, well then the degree isn't worth doing. There is far too much importance placed on doing a degree these days. Most students I know are hardly very diligent when it comes to finances anyway. To expect those who aren't benefiting from tertiary education to pay for it for them when so many p*ss it up against the wall isn't fair.

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Nor i notice your from scotland, you dont have to pay them up there!!! Thats why your not against it! :p :Peaceman:

I do get what you mean though, but most studnets wont be so lucky as to fall into a job where they earn 100k a year straight away, a lot of students are lucky to get jobs in certain sectors!

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You forget that if you earn £100k then you are paying 40% tax
and 40% + 60% is...... :D

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True, but also who said we could afford to put 60% opf it towards the debt, house prices round here are huge, affording to pay a mortage, and other general bills just to live will be expensive, let alone having a huge debt, its gonna take a long time to even get a house!

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It doesn't matter that I'm from Scotland I'd be for it if it applied to Scottish Universities too. The whole 100k thing was facetious. But.... how can people use the argument that houses cost alot of money so we should get our tertiary education for free. It just doesn't make sense. Education costs alot of money to provide too.

I just believe that too many people are being pushed through the university process without actually giving it much thought. Students paying part of their tuition fee will achieve several things. It'll make students actually think about what real impact a degree will have on their career. It'll enable universities to actually properly provide good services. It'll perhaps result in the death of all these paper and pointless 'david beckham studies' degrees.

I firmly believe that we should pay our way. A good degree will benefit those doing it, therefore they should pay at least a small proportion of the cost if the universities are having funding problems, surely that make sense ? I'm sure if I was about to start university I'd be dead set against it too, but I'd like to think because I'm not, I'm being objective.

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I'm Glad you see my point of view then! :)

Its just not giving us a particulalry good start to our careers! With all these debts :(

a point to add is that lets remember a lot of money is spent on just living, basic food and drinks, plus the accomodation and when its £90 a week its a lot of money ontop of the £3,000 a year!!! :( :(

Re: Top up fees
 

The bill that was past on Tuesday was a travisty of justice.
I was in the central lobby of parliament as the result was read out, there were some very, very sick looking mp's walking out of the commons just after the vote.
The proposals are a bad thing, the cap will eventually be removed then that will create an even bigger gap between rich and poor, and the main factor in deciding what university to go to will be on cost rather than ability.