for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

a malaysian MP is asking the government, to hand out a 'public whipping' to those who are sentenced to death for child killing or child rape


http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...977789,00.html


absoloutely 100% agree with this, its a tough measure even to have a death penalty but to inflict further punishment is a positive......

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

So you think they should be whipped before being killed? I think the death penalty is quite sufficient enough (though I'd much prefer to see people like this rehabilitated if possible)

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Public whipping has no place in a civilised society, child killers and rapists should go to prison for EVER and don't even think about replying saying its a deterrent.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

true but its more about humiliation rather then being civilised.......

if your going down the civilised route, ask the people held at gunantanimo bay in atrocious conditions under 'possible' charges :rolleyes:

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

The people being held at Guantanamo should be allowed access to legal council and put on trial but thats a whole other thread and I don't what to go there.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

What kind of society do we live in where people get kicks out of seeing someone humiliated?

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

The peoples republic of daily mail readers?

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

i dont think its about people 'getting kicks out of it' its more of an excercise to put people off doing such gastly crimes.....

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

/Sun :D

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

And a public flogging is worse than being put to death how exactly?

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

i never said it was worse, but it is worse on the offender, he has to put up with the pain instead of a 'quick ending'

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Are you really that naive, that you believe the kind of person that would kill or rape a child is going to be "put off" by public whipping anymore than a life time in prison?

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

it may do, or it might not, not everyone is the same are they ?

people react in diffarent ways in diffarent circumstances.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Perhaps you could stop and think of the 'offenders' family, imagine what they would have to go through watching their son/daughter being humiliated publically in this way.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

the 'offender' has commited an act of what can be described as 'heanous' and 'disgusting' the person should be ashamed of themselves YOU should know what you are doing is wrong.

you do the crime, you pay for the consequences, family or no family.

a hardline approach is always needed, no use in 'beating around the bush'

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

The offender has committed a crime and is sentenced to death, he is no longer going to be a threat to society, a public flogging is purely for the delight of the pathetic sad acts that get off on watching others suffer and there's no excuse for it.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

true.

the death penalty is quick and easy a little pain beforehand would not do any harm.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Perhaps someone else could continue this farcical debate with you, I'm ducking out before I say something to you I regret.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

no once forces you to post, just because im a hardliner in punishment and wont 'tip toe' (like our government around issues) does not prove this to be a farcical debate

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Yes and while were at it lets bring back Public Hangings/Beheadings, or even still lets have them Drawn and quatered for all to see, we could even decorate Buckingham pallace with thier heads on pigpoles outside :rolleyes:

We live in a civilised society and two wrongs do not make a right, what pleasure could one possibly get out of watching someone get whipped, its barbaric and not civilised.

And on that note I really am going to bed :D very tired now, g'night all :zzz:

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

I think both of your are wrong. The punishment should fit the crime, but that doesn't mean flogging or the death penalty is right. The kind of people that commit this type of crime can't be rehabilitated so they should remain in prison for life.

There are many problems with the death penalty. If this country had never abolished the death penalty many innocent people would have been put to death (FACT).
I hear people say "we have forensic evidense these day". Well you need to go to Google and type Stephan Kishko or the Birmingham Six before you use that argument.
I think the death penalty is the easy way out, look at Harold Shipman and Fred West. Ian Brady says he wants to die, I say tough!

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Words fail me Kronas - I don't disagree with the death penalty but a public flogging first is just a pointless barbaric act - I am suprised and saddened at you for supporting this.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Totally agree with you :tu:

Watching a programme about Muslim women the other night and within the last couple of years several women have been publicly stoned to death for adultery, not exactly what I think could be described as punishment fitting the crime.

What purpose could be served by a public flogging :shrug: it's barbaric and inhumane and I can't imagine that it would bring any comfort to the victims families

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

its allowed to happen over there so why not ?

just because something is barbaric to you, does not mean its wrong, i know the old saying 'two wrongs dont make a right' but the infliction of pain and suffering to those people is a better approach, then a quick death prolonging of the agony is better as i doubt jail conditions over there are quite comfortable

thanks for the red rep BTW

that will NOT silence me

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

wait just a moment, ill just clarify that i meant the public humilation of whipping is justifyed for this case, as the article states as well.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

I'm reading this thread with an air of total bafflement.

If you are going to get the death penalty for a crime, just *how* exactly is anything else going to be *more* of a deterrant???

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

I know what you mean Kronas just as I'm sure the people responsible for the stoning of these women felt that it was justified. There shouldn't be any public humiliation for criminals regardless of their crime.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

the death penalty should be brought back in to the law for 100% assurances but it woul require a massive overhaul of the laws we would need new judges etc...........

oh and no need for the over melodramatic comments in the above quoted post :rolleyes:


its not about being barbaric, its about inflicting pain on these sick people, instead of a quick easy way out.


you get the pain and then the quick ending, as opposed to the quick ending.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

I'm sure being sentenced to death wouldn't be seen as a quick easy way out by any convicted criminal. I can sympathise with your opinion but would you actually go to watch a public flogging?? The only people who would turn up are the kind of people who swarmed into Hyde last week after Dr Shipmans suicide, ghoulish weirdos and somehow I don't see you as one Kronas........

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

you right i would want to be there, but something has to be done the law is too soft, maybe my comments have been a little strong but i feel for familys who go through the pain and suffering, the mental scars left on the children, the loss of a youngsters life

ofcourse it wont happen in this country.......

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

But why inflict pain?

Question: Will it bring back the dead, will it rehabilitate them, will it deter others?
Answer: No, no, no.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

as i said to inflict and prolong the suffering before the end

nope


maybe, maybe not who knows, it might stop some from offending or reoffending

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

So, as others have said, why not hang, draw and quarter them?

Plenty of pain, lots of public spectacle and obviously(!) a deterrant.

Or is that *too* uncivilised?

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

If it's barbaric to me, then it's wrong to me.

I give very few red reps out but I disagreed with you strongly enough in this case. It is not designed to "silence you" any more than the ones I get silence me - I'm sorry if you see it that way - but it's simply to show my strong disagreement with you.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

hang, i agree with obviously, draw and quarter...... i disagree

:rolleyes:


i agree with hanging which is the death penalty really, a bit of punishment on the side, such as whipping is fine.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

so what affective approach would you insue ?

keep them in jail ?

at the taxpayers expense ?

you could try rehab, but how would this work ?

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Kronas, can I clarify here whether it's just the child killers/abusers that you want to see whipped/tortured and then executed or the criminal fraternity in general??

btw have you got a nation yet as would like to see your justice system !!!!

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

No I would not keep them in jail - perhaps you mis-read me ? - I did say "I don't disagree with the death penalty" - what I do take exception too is a public flogging first.

If the threat of death does not deter them then a flooging certainly isn't going to.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

yep i stated before, this is strictly for killers abusers of children.......



i wish!!!!! :)

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

but why ? your quite happy to see then die (maybe not in the literal sense)
a bit more pain.......


there is nothing to say it does deter some, or it doesent, it just inflicts an increased amount of pain and suffering for them

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Well it is pointless arguing with you all night - it's past 3am and I have a bed to go to - and quite obviously you are not going to change your view, nor I mine - So I shall bow out now and retire to sleep.

:walk:

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

As soon as the death penalty was mentioned, I was waiting for someone to say expense.

With all the legal appeals before its carried out (and that normally means a good ten years on death row) it ends up costing just as much as keeping them in prison for life. And I any case, are you really arguing for the death penalty on the grounds of cost? That the state should sanction murder (and what message does this send out anyway?) just to save a few quid?

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

Ah, so taking away someone's life is not *sufficient* punishment, and a bit extra "on the side" such as whipping is acceptable, but they shouldn't go as far as drawing and quartering?

So we have, from you, two limits whipping being ok, drawing and quartering being not ok. But if the whipping fails as a deterrant, how much further would you suggest they go? Branding? Pulling out fingernails? Torture on the rack? Where do you draw the line between a bit of extra punishment "on the side" being "fine" and it being "unacceptable"?

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

I know I'm doing myself no favours by posting this, but the title of this thread is for once i agree with extreme measures...

And then you post things like

Perhaps you could get the threat title modified to actually reflect your views.

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

yes


i have my limits, i believe in a fair but strict system, if its diffarent you your train of 'conventional' thoughts then obviously you wont accept this will you?

so we will keep them locked up rehab them, deny them net access, computer access........

how do you keep them from going near children after all we let them out pretty quicly almost instantly ?




i dont know how the legal system works over there, but in the US they dont take 10 years in some cases a fast track system to do it within a few years will save the system money long term

Re: for once i agree with extreme measures...
 

But I'm trying to find out what the limits of *your* "conventional" train of thought are.

If you think whipping them will be a deterrant, but it fails to deter them, how much further would you go?

The answer is, of course, 1) we don't let them out until they have served their sentence 2) we *don't* let someone out until they *are* rehabilitated and 3) we monitor them to ensure they haven't just faked it and 4) the terms of their release are similar to the "licence" scheme for other prisoners who have received "life sentences" ie if they break the terms of the licence they can be locked up again.

This isn't rocket science.

And then in more than a few cases it turns out that the defendant was actually *innocent*, but that doesn't really help them: http://www.fdp.dk/uk/new-evi.htm
http://www.fdp.dk/uk/released.htm

Oh, and as for "closure" http://www.fdp.dk/uk/closure.htm