council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

the local governments association, is set to call for a reform of the council tax, affectively abolishing it, and introducing local taxes designed to benefit specific areas of each council.

under the proposals, the association calls for local taxes such as congestion charges, sales taxes, house sales tax, and others to be regulated seperately by local councils and also introduce a more tiered system of 'house banding'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3397835.stm

source: BBC news

i just see this as another money making excercise, perpitrated to tax us even heavier then before but you could argue it could allow funds for local councils 'extra' funds, to be allocated to areas that really do need the money.......

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

Sounds like we are going to be even more like america... :rolleyes:

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

Itll never happen :(

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

why be so sad, i mean im sure it would mean we pay more in taxes......

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

It would make the whole thing a lot more transparent, after all most of a councils funding comes from central govt, the council tax is a 1-20% tweak at the edge (and a lot of admin).

Looking at the cost of council tax, which comes from after tax pay. Say you pay £1000 a year and earn £40000. That £1000 is after tax, so rounding back up (roughly) for tax and NI (averaged at 30%) thats 1000/.7 = £1430 or 3.6% of your gross pay. Personally I never realised what a High percentage of my pay was taken in council tax.

So if the council tax was abolished and a further 3.5% was taken from your gross pay then you would be in a 0 sum position. Unless there were multiple earners at the same address, then it gets a bit like the poll tax.

Personally I think this change should be far more reaching. Lets make our income tax more transparant and say have an 8% EU tax (for the element paid away to Brussels), a 25% Central Govt tax and a 10.5% local tax, this totals the 43.5% paid away by a higher rate payer.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

it doesn't matter what they call it, it's legal robbery and it will never be accepted by all until it becomes something that people can afford and doesn't appear to be a waste of money. every time I pay it I feel like I have been mugged, I bet I'm not alone.

the amount of money the local council collects with this tax is scary, it is more than a lot of small countrys annual economic budget and I can see no benefit from paying it, yet it went up by 13% again this year.

so a question for everybody that is old enough to remember paying it.
Has anybody seen any improvement in what the council provides since the rates system was abolished.
I haven't but the bill has gone up 500%

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

Too young for rates, but a lot of the reason is that rates collected say 5% of the councils spend and the balance was paid by central govt.

Now Council tax collects a far higher proportion of the council spend so will be higher. Also the police, fire etc proportion of council tax keeps spiraling up and while the central govt contribution has remained static they keep managing to reclaim more back through other taxes for example the 1% on NI.

In this instance you pay your tax and NI, someone in your eer and the IR collect it and pay it to the govt, someone else in central govt pays this (and more cash) to the local council, who pay staff who pay NI which the council collects and pays to central govt. doh.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

I find it interesting that governments come out with all these money-raising ideas but :-

a) still want a large increase in pay and pensions for MPs and MEPs

b) never consider using methods to actually reduce costs

c) waste money available through the National Lottery

d) waste tax-payers money on ill considered schemes e.g.the Dome

We could have better services at a cheaper cost with everybody paying less tax and charges if only governments would forget political dogma and correctness and use some common sense.

The way things are going more and more money will be wasted and more and more money will be demanded. It's time to break that process that takes you to the bankruptcy court and for governments to start planning more effectively to meet society's needs and not their own.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

One of the things they say is that Local Government will get back Business Rates. I should bloody well think so. I was stunned because I never even knew that central government already stole that money from local government in the first place. In large industrial areas (such as where I live) that can amount to a massive amount of money from businesses. I can't imagine central government would give all that away without being able to replace the loss by stealing money from local government in some other way.

They other thing they say is that their ideas will mean that it will fairer because it will be based on income. Don't people on low income already pay less on a slidling scale anyway (community charge rebates)? Yes, I rather think they do.

Perhaps like any other radical change in taxation it offers the government the chance to further complicate and stealth/hide things so most hard working people will probably end up paying more anyway. Perhaps they should trial it in a couple of areas first and see how it goes.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

I wouldnt mind paying stuff like that if i thought i got value for money.

Good example recently in P'boro, everyone received letters saying Doctors surgeries arent going to be open on Saturday mornings any longer but the NHS direct centres are open and these will be staff by doctors on a rota.

Whats wrong with that i hear you say

The final part of the letter said, if you need a doctor, call the appointments line at you doctors surgery and you will be given instructions on what to do.

Well i think i would have done that without this letter being sent to me!!! What a waste of money

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

I'd like to see the government stop taxing pension funds because that's the main reason why so many schemes have folded leaving thousands of people without pensions.

Before the government starts introducing more taxes it needs to ensure that money already collected from existing taxes is spent properly.

The tax-payers money wasted in Brussels needs sorting out. Interpol needs to be called into investigate the fraud there and the Dutch Chief Accountant sacked for revealing the corruption there needs re-instating.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

If you thought the dome was a really stupid idea then take a look at this one.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3398491.stm
;)
A real forehead slapper that one.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

Exactly what qualifications do you need to be a councillor and make breathtakingly stupid decisions?

Surely there should be some suitably trained people available to advise on some of the things that councils get up to. :mad:

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

Don't get me started on councils :afire: I think the only qualification you need is to be a jobsworth t*sser......

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

All you have to do is to get breathtakingly stupid people to vote for you and that's it. ;).
Actually, councillors are not always in a position to make descisions but they can help fight a battle sometimes (or sit on their fat old ar$es "earning" their allowance on top of their pensions).

The trouble is that party politics get in the way most of the time. In our town all previous Labour councillors in all 4 wards were overthrown in the recent local council elections by a group of independent councillors. Great we all thought. However, in the Borough Council Cabinet there were still just enough remaining Labour and Conservatives out of all the towns to colude in their voting to make sure none of independents got in the cabinet (which is where all decisions are made). Now all we get is leaflets through the door from Labour and the Independents which consist mostly of childish bickering.
I have never understood why party politics should get in the way at a council level. That final interface with the people, a ward councillor, should be completely devoid of any politics and just "do the right thing".

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

the money, already obtained and spent by the local council here is not specifically used much, its there to provide questionable services, and even then some of the services that were once free such as household items removal now costs you...

*wonders where the money goes :rolleyes:

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

Well as the thread starter and such a young one, I doubt very much whether you have yet to endure the process of paying this tax yet.

Your sentiments and ideas are in the right place but you have to learn this is just another step on the ladder and enduring the joys of becoming a home owner.

:D

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

thanks for being very observant :rolleyes:

your point was ?

just because im young, does not give you the right to be judging my view based on your ageistic argument............

i know how hard it is, would i comment if i did not have a clue. :rolleyes:

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

Local council money tends to be used on the favoured projects of councillors. Quite a bit of it goes on their expenses even if that means a fact-finding tour to the Bahamas. To be fair some councillors and councils do try to keep expenses to a minimum.

Council overheads have increased in line with wage and salary increases. In effect councils have to spend more because of the pay of people employed by them and we foot the bill. Local councils are notorious for overstaffing, instead of looking at more effective and more efficient ways of getting jobs done. The same thing can be said about national government too and a lot of publicly owned organisations.

It's also true to say that there is a massive lack of common sense and creativity in the thinking at all levels of these organisations. My local council redeveloped the town hall putting in lots of extra features except of course a multi-storey car park to deal with increased demand for car-parking caused by the development in an area where existing parking facilities are inadequate.

The problem in this country is that we are pricing ourselves out of the market with the result that employers are taking their business overseas. Look at the new call centres in India and at the international companies who close down factories in the UK and transfer the work abroad.

Sadly, this government has concentrated on getting pay UP instead of going for getting prices DOWN. It hasn't focused on increasing efficiency by looking at better, cheaper methods of getting things done. Instead more staff are taken on to do work that could be done by fewer people using improved methods at cheaper cost and if you follow that to its logical conclusion we will have an endless pattern of increased tax bills both locally and nationally.

It also means that, over time, more companies will either go bust or shed workers or move to a cheaper labour market. More people will be out of work and those in work will be overworked. Just look, for example, how long the queues are in high street shops as few staff struggle to deal with the large numbers of customers waiting to pay for goods.

The politicians, aka the 'fat cats of government', will be OK because they can charge everything they do to you and me. And it's time that changed. ;)

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

It is this part that really winds me up - specifically in regard to pensions. While the rest of the country watches their pension funds being raped by Brown and collapsing due to stock market fluctuations, the civil servants just charge the shortfall to the hapless taxpayers. It stinks. :mad:

Their funds should be forced to suffer market forces like everybody elses.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

I can agree with everything you have said except the above,

I wish may wages/ income had risen by 500% over the past few years in line with the rises in coucil tax.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

My point was nothing like you have twisted it into being.

Now then your second comment, tell me where did I judge you or give an ageistic argument.

Lighten up I used a smiley and agreed in part to your original post.

:) :angel:

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

That's true. One council I know of spent thousands sending councillors to Germany to look at a Road system, when a similar system was in use in the next borough in England. That sort of wastage is disgusting and should be stopped.
Actually, local councils are now required to put most of the services they offer out to tender. In a lot of cases, overstaffing is not the problem. Inadequate controls on contractors is. Having dealt with contractors in the NHS, I can categorically state that a lot of contractors overcharge for their services. This is also a problem in Central Government
Not all local councils are that bad. My local council had a new Civic Centre built complete with various meeting halls etc, & a multi storey car park. It's rumoured it was built for free in return for them giving land and planning permission to a developer so he could build a housing estate. Of course, that is only a rumour and I don't know if it is true.
As I understand it, the main cost for most people is simply having a roof over their heads. Maybe if (and I know I will get flamed for this) house prices weren't rising so fast, the main reason for pay & price rises would disappear..

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

The problem with that is that council tax is the tax generated to cover the cost of services provided by the council. If you give council workers a massive pay rise, the council tax goes up massively too.To be fair, council tax also rises if your council wastes money on ill thought-out, expensive schemes.

Councils need to find more efficient ways of getting things done, which allows the workers to receive a fair wage without overburdening council tax payers.And councils need to ensure that any projects they dream up are wanted by local people and are going to give them long term benefits.

Re: council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?
 

I think you make a number of fair points in particular about not all councils being the same and your comment about contractors.

I also agree that the cost of housing does fuel demands for higher wages and it's something that the government should address. Abolishing mortgage relief was a great saving to the government but simply put a great burden back onto homeowners. Unfortunately, I don't see the government bringing it back nor do I see them introducing some form of rent relief for people who have to rent because they can't buy a home.