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Late Payment Charge
do not pay the £10 late penalty charge added to your account it,s an illegal charge.threaten them with court action and they,ll refund it see bank action group for sample letter to send,just on with the £4 none DD fee also illegal trying to claim it all back to 2004,will let you know how i get on. Don,t be put off sent them a letter,call centre staff will just fob you off
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Re: Late Payment Charge
que?
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Re: Late Payment Charge
Actually, is a late payment charge illegal? If you sign up and agree to make a payment by a certain date each month, aren't they entitled to charge you?
Personally, I see this as being different to the bank charges problem, where people can get stuck in the vicious circle of, for example, going overdrawn without authorisation, being charged, but then are further overdrawn anyway. Oh, and :welcome: but the way :) |
Re: Late Payment Charge
He's entirely right, it's illegal under common law (the fact that NTL themselves named it as a Late Payment Fee won't have helped matters for them either).
As far as the £4.00 non direct debit fee that's going to take a test case or NTL to be willing to prove that it actually costs them £4.00 to process a non DD payment (which I very much doubt). |
Re: Late Payment Charge
if you are right, I certainly will challenge them, can anyone tell me have I agreed to the charges as they called me with an automated call informing me of the charges, I could not respond but is this NTL's way of forcing through changes, If they would agree to my required DD dates then there would not be an issue, also it cannot possibly cost them 4 quid to deal with a switch transaction does it
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Re: Late Payment Charge
There's only one way to prove it is illegal challenge it!
I pay by DD so I cannot. What I do feel though, when the paying over the counter charge was increased this was an opportunity for many a customer to get onto retentions and threaten to leave, because they have increased the charges to the services they provide you are entitled a get out whether or not you have served the minimum 12 months, but you needed to act in 30 days. The banks are being walloped, bring it on ;) |
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The only form you need is the N1 I believe - see www.hmcs.gov.uk
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as i understand it new t&c's were sent out which included details of the late payment fee and non DD charge....used to be £2.00 but now upped to £4.00.. .i like probably everyone else didnt read them
---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ---------- 6. Charges and Payment 6.1 You must pay all the Charges for the provision of Services and/or Equipment, for which we bill you (whether you use the Services or someone else does), together with any Value Added Tax and any other taxes (at applicable rates from time to time) which apply in relation to any Charges payable under this Agreement. You must pay your bill by the due date for payment. You will be liable for the Charges from the day on which we first make the Services available to you unless we notify you otherwise. 6.2 If you do not make your payments on time, we may charge you a reasonable fee for late and/or non payment. We may also withdraw any discount we have given to you for payment in advance or payment by a particular means (e.g. direct debit). We may also charge daily interest on amounts not paid until we receive your payment in full at a rate equal to 4% each year above the Base Lending Rate of National Westminster Bank Plc whether before or after Judgment. Interest will continue to accrue even if the Agreement has been terminated, as long as this termination is not due to a breach by us. This does not affect our rights under Condition 19 below. |
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Surely a "contract" cannot be changed without the consent of both parties!
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All I will say is that by you, the customer, continuing to accept the services, you are perceived as accepting the t&c's :) Whether that is seen as a " fair contract " can only be determined if it was challenged. I have yet to hear of NTL taking anyone to court for breaking the contract, maybe someone can point me to any cases? My sister had a problem with NTL in as much as the sales guy on her doorstep was a bit uneconomical with the facts, she had not signed any contract, she had not received a copy of a contract back from NTL. When she took the matter up with the consumer protection people here, they said that she was bang to rights to cancel because she had not signed a contract, nor received a copy of one back from NTL. I think you make your own mind up about their contracts, all I was saying was that if they increase your charges you can get out, whether you have fulfilled the 12 months or not, but you need to let them know within 30 days. |
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firstly the reasonable fee - yes it has to be reasonable, something that ntl can demonstrate represents is the cost they suffer for having to deal with an unpaid account. Given they can charge interest as well, this "fee" is the manpower / administration cost ntl suffer. As many post have highlighted, it's the cost, not a profit making scheme. That's where many banks have come unstuck. The Direct Debit extra charge I'd suspect is less clear cut in what can b3e applied. NTL have been clever using that word discount (not sure if they have repeated that word or expressed it differently in the schedule of charges). If it is truly a discount then they might well get round the legislation, but if it is a charge for paying by not DD methods, then they ruls as above, demonstrating it's a real cost, would apply. Now given that DD systems can largely be automated, but other payment methods might require manual input, the true scale of that £4.00 charge might be harder to dispute. |
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Ultimately it will only be proven through leagal action by somebody, or perhaps the OFT or similar. All the average punter, who does not want to take legal action can do , is to try and argue the cost in writing to the billing address. Withholding payment might seem like a good idea, but based on ntl's past performance would just see you cut off with the debt collectors sent in :(
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Add to that the fact that the OFT opinion in April resulted in a marked decrease in bank fees I wouldn't want to be the NTL counsel facing questions regarding the introduction of a previously non existant penalty fee in June. Quote:
The devil is in the detail. |
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Fair enough on your first points
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Whilst the £10.00 late payment fee sounds high, na dthe £4.00 non DD does too, if you set the DD one off against the late one, for the extra processing involvedment, it makes the DD one look cheap |
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Regarding the matter of "any discount...." I think, since there is no mention of a specific discount being afforded to customers for paying by DD in the T&Cs, that it's safe to assume that they are referring to discounts for services that customers may have negotiated. Either that or NTL are trying to suggest that by paying by DD they are, in effect, affording you a discount of £4.00 - and that simply isn't true as the £4.00 is allegedly the cost of processing payments - not for services which they provide under the contract. NTL's customers are not responsible for their business overheads. In the real world businesses factor for overheads by offsetting operational profits against operational costs. Either way, discounts negotiated or agreed between ntl & a customer are outside the remit of the original contract / T&Cs subscribed to. As such any threat of a withdrawl of same would constitute an unfair term. Quote:
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People have to be quick off the mark when NTL increase the charges like this, aside from challenging the charge there is nothing to stop customers who have had their services less than 12 months contacting retentions with view to activating the get out clause, all they need do is give 30 days notice, facing the prospect of losing more customers are NTL still going to dig their heels in for £4 or £10? I think not given the recent publicity on these forums about discounts.
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