Sky Broadband
 

Take a read of the PDF here:http://www.rawcoms.com/content/corpo...060718/run.asp

http://www.sky.com/broadband/

Thanks to James Henry for the heads up. :tu:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Eh??? :confused:

Not sure whether to jump ship or not... plusnet has been really good... never had a problem and with a monthly usage of 100Gb a month or so.. (some months upto 170Gb) not sure if the grass is gonna be greener.... if you know what i mean :disturbd:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Yeah, El Reg has the same story here... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07...les_broadband/

...although their figures differ slightly.

I like the idea of a free wireless router though. That's a nice touch :tu:

---------- Post added at 11:07 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

This quote is interesting... Considering I pay £10ish p/month to BT for line rental, it is a very tempting offer.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

no it's £10 plus line rental - things are getting confused.

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...esentation.pdf

see page 7

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Sky isn't going to be traffic shaped to hell and back for the onnet people. Appreciate that you seem to be very lucky in that you can actually download that amount of data without having your connection throttled back to the dialup era however for other subs that's the reality of Plusnet.

Be interesting to see the cableco response, see if Berkett is eating his words regarding them 'watching out'. Sky have made an investment here the size of which ntl could only dream of, unless it were to take over another company of course.

BT are gearing up for some serious investment.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Ntl's should be able to match or better it. After all they have already offered completly free internet.

They don't have to invest in a network either to do it as they already have a broadband ready network and a connection at every property that offers digital TV.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

They have? :confused:

They can't provide the 10Mb customers with a stable connection yet.

Are you sure about that?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

The network needs constant and ongoing investment to maintain and upgrade it, infact a lot of areas are nearing the end of useful life of a lot of components, so to say they don't have to invest isn't really accurate.

If ntl start offering internet service at really low / free prices where is their money going to come from?

Looking at the increase in complaints here the network is already not being that well maintained, and with a load of cost cutting and firing of engineers this won't really improve. Take away revenue from broadband services it just gets worse.

Neil - ntlworld dialup.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Or even the 4MB ones ;)

Will have to look at all the pro's and con's, especially pricing. Sky TV services have been looking more attractive for so long now, with Sky+, HD, etc. Downside was I would have to pay for added cost of phone rental. Now if it is going to be a true bundle from Sky instead of ntl the swap might make sense, apart from cost of getting a BT based phone line installed (not just reactivated).

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Mmmmm this looks promising, espeacially as the partner has been hinting towards NTL's 3-2-1 package, or something similar. I will have a good read later.

Thanks for the info :tu:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

This is a no go on so many levels for me.

Will NEVER have a BT line in my house again.
Ukonline at this time have NO capacity for ADSL2 in Warrington. "i can prove it as well"

This means i would have to use there upto 8 meg limited at 40 gig service. Thats crap as far as my usage goes " i used 12 gig in 2 days at the weekend".

I am happy with the service i get on my SKY+ but i am not and will never be happy having any form of BT connection in my house ever again.


I think that NTL will come out with a offer to match this in one way or another, Which means i can see my broadband price coming down soon.




Full update on BT's crap service in another thread shortly. Boy will it be fun. My line moves tomorrow thank god.

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------

The problem is not UKonline "aka SKY" but BT. The upgrades to your network would come to nothing if BT treat all there customers as they have treated me. Ukonline can have a superb network but it's BT's inferior copper which lets you down.

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:16 ----------

Ukonline could not offer me LLU . They sold me ADSL2+ LLU but gave me 2 meg ove a BT connection . They then lied and told me they would upgrade me to adsl2+. They never did it and still have NOT upgraded there Dslam in Warrington exchange at this time. Thats 3 months and they still have NOT upgraded it. That means that anyone in Warrington that upgrades to sky at the moment would have to go on the BT ipstream network. Now i am sure that Ukonline aka Sky will upgrade the mux, However looking at there upgrade in warrington so far i would NOT hold my breath :).

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I can only agree and say that you've highlighted the advantage that ntl do have, they own the entire process and network end to end.

We'll see if they start to really take advantage of this. Either they do that or they will fail.

You and I as consumers are the winners here. Let the war begin, and pass the popcorn! :)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

:LOL:

Indeed. I will pull up my deck chair and await the price cuts.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Am I right in thinking that if I go for the Max option (the only unlimited one) I have to pay:

• £10 a month for the BB
• £12 a month for the BT phoneline
• £5 a month for Sky Talk
• £15 a month for the basic Sky digi TV package

Since I've long since dumped my landline phone (email & free mobile minutes do me) that doesn't look too competitive against £25 pm NTL BB.

Or am I missing something?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

so the cheapest deal on offer is £42 ?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

mines been stable except for the dos attacks all along

Re: Sky Broadband
 

The Sky Talk part is optional, the rest you are right.

On the other hand, most people do tend to have a landline still, and the majority watch pay TV. You are in a big minority.

Also if we compare like for like you're talking £35 / month for unlimited 10Mbit on cable vs £37/month for unlimited up to 22Mbit with basic digital TV and a telephone line.

It might not suit you but with the packages as they stand the vast majority would be better off with the Sky deal, that's an indisputable fact.

Just to prove the point, 10Mbit broadband + Talk Weekend + TV Base Pack = £34.99 + £11 + £11.50 = £57.49, 4Mbit broadband + Talk Weekend + TV Base Pack = £47.49.

When you compare those to the Sky deal with Sky Talk and the up to 22Mbit uncapped the ntl deals look less attractive.

Think about it this way though, without the TV package the Sky deal is £27 for an uncapped 22MBit and a phone line, and it's only available to Sky subscribers so from your point of view it's a complete non-issue anyway!

Can't please everyone, but if you're a Sky subscriber in an unbundled area it's a non-issue, if you're in an unbundled area, would like a PVR or interactive that works or HD but stay with ntl for the broadband, the choice is clear. Sky will be attacking ntl on the fronts of both the triple play and the people who take Sky's TV but ntl's broadband.

All the above said, if you don't have or want a landline, and don't have or want Pay TV, cable broadband a la carte is the best deal. For all the people who like all three and are in an unbundled area Sky is almost certainly the best choice, for people who want TV and broadband only, Sky may not be a better option now that ntl have released the restriction forcing people who take TV to take a phone line as well.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Am I the only one NOT wanting a price war here? In the last few years prices have been tumbling, and with it, service is going with it, Sky are sinking a lot of money into this, as are CarphoneWarehouse and France Telecom, they will want a return from it, in the end, we, the customer, will pay for this price war, in one way or another.

I hope if ntl choose to act, I hope its not a knee-jerk reaction, and is something measured and affordable to the company, if not, I see service going downhill, and after 3 years of excellent service, I dont want to see it go tits-up just to pay a few less pennies every month.

Anyway, good luck to Sky, but Ill give this a miss for the moment, if reports come back positively, I may enquire, though, (Which, is unlike what I've heard about TalkTalk "Free" broadband, I wanted to sign up, had a 3 month lead time, then I heard some horror stories, no thanks :/).

Re: Sky Broadband
 

The £50 installation appears to be optional as you can install the modem yourself.

But IMO the big drawback there is mcafees suite!

Why get Broadband then slow your PC down with that crud? lol

I'm going to wait like stop it.

Zoom

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Another sweeping, inaccurate, statement.

Mine is perfectly stable, and always has been - and no, that's not unique or unusual in this area.

* Is every BT connection stable ? No, of course not.
* Will everyone who signs upto Sky actually get 22 (or even 16) Mbit ? No.


It looks like it may be a good deal, and I shall be looking carefully at it, but it's not going to suit everyone.

My main problem atm is that I have no BT line, so do I really want to swap to a possibly dodgy (overhead fed) BT line, from my nice stable underground ntl line. That's before I even look at the other possible advantages/drawbacks.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

It was just a automatic I hate NTL statement from someone that Hates all things NTL.
I get 10 meg for 98% of the day. Stable connection, Faster connection than was capable on my crappy BT line via adslmax "4meg max on my BT oh so advanced BT never goes wrong line"

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Think the Mcaffee will be an install if you want option too, I must say I'm tempted since we already have a BT line. Think we'll wait for the appearance of a FreeSkyBroadbandHell site before we decide ;)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

This is soooo tempting....

Currently have a BT landline, Firefly 2meg ADSL, & Sky Digital.

Got another 6 months left on the FF BB contract though, so can't change to anyone else yet. Still, it's another option to choose from when my contract runs out next year.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

That's also a bit of a sweeping statement. Most of the cable in North America is overhead, overhead doesn't mean dodgy by default :)

A few good points though, both have their upside and downside without a doubt. At present though I would say its' undeniable that ntl will need to provide a response to this as the current packages aren't competitive.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

BB war :D




About time

Re: Sky Broadband
 

hell yeah!

i currently have the 10mbit service from NTL thats all.....16mbit for a tenner per month id be crazy not to take that up :Sprint:

£34.99 for 10mbit or 16mbit for £10 hmmmm.....already have a BT line and sky!

Re: Sky Broadband
 

:Yes: What he said... need to check it out a bit more, but as I already have the BT line and Sky Digital (both of which work so much better than the service I was getting from NTL that it's a wonder I stuck with NTL as long as I did... and no more dealing with NTL's call centre muppets either - yippee!!!), that's 2 marks in the check boxes already

Re: Sky Broadband
 

remember you can only get 2mb 8meg 16meg etc on ADSL if you are close enough to the exchange.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

For those that think they will get the full speed on ADSL i suggest you put you BT number in here and check. I bet most of you will get 4 meg or less.

I have just spent 3 very annoying months on ADSL and in the end i could not get above 4 meg with any of the providers.

here are my sam knows results for you to look at.



BT ADSL broadband availability
You are connected to the Warrington telephone exchange.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifADSL is available in your areahttps://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYour exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
According to BT Wholesale, your line should be able to support a 4.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max.

Standard ADSL RAG results:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 2Mbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 1Mbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 512Kbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 256Kbps ADSL

You are approximately 1.38km from the exchange (straight line distance)


1.38km and i could only get 4 meg. I can see the roof of the exchange from my back windows for gods sake.



I get this from Wanadoo

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2006/07/3.gif
Phone number 019254***** can receive broadband at speeds of up to 2Meg.




And this from Ukonline aka SKY Broadband.

Due to overwhelming demand for our services in your area, we will be delivering your services using BT's network. Currently £9.99 Broadband and 22Mb Broadband is not available in your area. We anticipate being able to offer these services soon. You can however still choose from our great unlimited broadband services below.

So thats no ADSLmax and NO ADSL2+

Been like that for over 3 months now :Yikes:




And remember all of these speeds are for a BT line that is 1.35km line of sight 2.4 km true distance.

And finally for those that need more info look here for information on ADSL HELL

Re: Sky Broadband
 

There is nothing sweeping about it - I never said anything about all BT lines, I was clearly referring to my BT overhead fed line, which was very dodgy before I moved to ntl (and is one of the reasons I moved).

Re: Sky Broadband
 

My apologies you didn't give the impression of being specific.

unlimited, that checker is pretty conservative:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifADSL is available in your area
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYour exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
According to BT Wholesale, your line should be able to support a 6.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max.


Downstream7,559.6 Kbps( = 7.4 Mbps )
Upstream477.3 Kbps( = 0.5 Mbps )

Most lines do 4+ Mbit.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

We're less than 1Km from our Exchange (LOS) as it's just round the corner from our street lol According to Sam we should get at least 6 meg but since our line is a bit old I think we might struggle to get full speed (although while I was at BT I line checked our telephone line and it came up nice and clean on the tests ;) )

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Can anyone explain this - If I was to go for the Max package, do I need to pay the £10 montly fee AND the BT line rental fee?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Yes - if I'm reading it right you will pay £10 for the BB, £11.99 (I think) for BT line rental, and then £5 for the SkyTalk (optional). From Q4 2006 (according to the Sky presentation), there will be a bundle that gives you line rental and SkyTalk for £14.

I'm very tempted by this - I currently pay about £80 per month for NTL 4MB, TV and Phone. If I switch to Sky I could get better TV, 16MB BB, and a better phone package for about £60. Even assuming that the 16MB quoted is optimistic, it's likely to be better than the roughly 3MB service I get now. Seems worth getting my BT phone line reactivated for. :)

The only potential downsides I can see are no VOD (not a huge issue), and the possibility of a less solid wireless connection (I currently have a Belkin pre-N setup that works a dream).

Re: Sky Broadband
 

This sky offer sounds very good! although I am only paying £9 for my 10meg service from NTL so can't complain really. Wonder if this will encourage NTL/Telewest to up their speeds?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Just had the letter from Sky, re. the broadband, you have to laugh at whoever writes this stuff, as acording to the letter, I'm not in a area covered by their network, even though I'm with UK Online which is easynet, and both now owned by Sky?
I get the maximum speed of 22meg too.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I shouldn't think so. Unless you live ontop of the exchange, you're highly unlikely to get more that half that speed....So I doubt that ntl/telewest are quaking in their boots about the speed just yet.... :rolleyes:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

ntl probably will make a point of ADSL being a distance relative tech compared to their cable like recently with announcement.

Considering the time it will take to get this show up and running, ntl will hopefully be offering many times faster speeds with the bonding technologies to be taken advantage of.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I wouldn't bet on that at all... over 50% of people connected to an ADSL2+ enabled exchange will get over 10Mbit on it, fact ;)

25% or so will be blessed with >16Mbit :)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

http://www.realdiamond2.com/images/sky1.jpg
http://www.realdiamond2.com/images/sky2.jpg
capped 2meg BT ADSL line, Odear, i use up 2gb just from apple.com (Front row)HD trailers never mind any software updates.
£5 for 8meg + £11 For BT phone line. but i cant get 8meg BT ADSL line only 2Meg :?:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

From the site Unlimited posted on page 2:

BT ADSL broadband availability
You are connected to the Newcastle telephone exchange.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifADSL is available in your areahttps://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYour exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
According to BT Wholesale, your line should be able to support a 3.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max.

Standard ADSL RAG results:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gif You cannot receive 2Mbps ADSLhttps://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou may be able to receive 1Mbps ADSLhttps://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 512Kbps ADSLhttps://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 256Kbps ADSL
You are approximately 3.07km from the exchange (straight line distance).


Hmm...well, that's rubbish on two points:

1) I can't get 2mb? eek
2) 3.7km away? Erm, no. The exchange is 3 streets away. I can spit at it from my upstairs window.

Still, I realise that it's the old UKOnline network, but, let's face it, I feel a disturbance in downloading known as Traffic Shaping will be on the horizon. £10 for unlimited upto 16mb download - call me cynical, but there's no way. Roll on NTL with their price cuts. At the mo I have stable 4mb at a reasonable price. If they up me to 10, 16 or whatever, replace this 120 modem and cut my price then I'll stay with them.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Who says you can only get 2Mbit? Up to 8 is available to over 99% of the UK, line distance allowing. If you can get 2Mbit under the old ADSL scheme you should be fine for at least 4 on the newer one.

Not that it matters anyway as it'd be £17 for that + the line rental for the BT line, so if you don't have a landline already it doesn't work for you.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

BT ADSL broadband availability
You are connected to the Heckmondwike telephone exchange.

ADSL is available in your area
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services

According to BT Wholesale, your line should be able to support a 6.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max.

Standard ADSL RAG results:
You can receive 2Mbps ADSL
You can receive 1Mbps ADSL
You can receive 512Kbps ADSL
You can receive 256Kbps ADSL

You are approximately 314 metres from the exchange (straight line distance).

is that fine for 24mbit ? would i get full speed even at 16mbit ?

i wondered why wanadoo started advertising around here a few months ago, its because their LLU equipment is in the exchange :disturbd:

how many LLU's can you fit in an exchange as ours is fairly small :D

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Chances are Kronas you're good for 20Mbit+.

Don't need that much space for LLU operations and a lot of space was reclaimed replacing old analogue gear with newer and much smaller digital switching gear.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

just hope the telephone line is good then :D

question for you:

is it possibe to have two internet connections in windows xp pro, my motherboard has two ethernet ports, so i can run them independently for downloading etc ? any programs i need etc ?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

so what will ntl offer i wonder to compete with this deal ?

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ----------

with sky i could get * VARIETY MIX
* KIDS MIX
* KNOWLEDGE MIX
* NEWS & EVENTS MIX for £18 a month plus £5 per month for broadband and £11.99 for phone that totals £35


i thinks its time ntl offered free uk calls 2mb uncapped broadband and family pack for £30

Re: Sky Broadband
 

winton in bounrnemouth is gonna be my local exchange. hasnt even been unbundled by BT yet. BT told me ill be on 2 Meg so i went with cable.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Heh, I used to live in Winton a long time ago... Talbot Road, to be exact. Used to like going to the pub at the end of the road. *sigh* Brings back memories. :)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

BT don't unbundle, other operators unbundle by putting their own kit in BT's exchange.

BT Wholesale ADSL/SDSL information ADSL status: Enabled
ADSL enable date: 31 Mar 2000
SDSL status: Enabled
SDSL enable date: 03 Jul 2005
ADSL Max status: Enabled (Green)
ADSL Max enable date: 31 Mar 2006

BT might have only offered 2Mbit at that time but your exchange has all the BT products and is being unbundled by Carphone Warehouse / Opal Telecom within the next month and a half.

I suspect also that Easynet / Sky will be unbundling it in the not too distant future, it's hardly a small exchange.

Serves (approx): 24,546 residential premises
1,123 non-residential premises

---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 ----------

You'd need Winroute or a dual WAN router or similar to load balance between two connections.

Unlimited may be able to assist better than me.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Its hard to see how ntl can compete with this deal for me. I have sky+ and ntl phone + BB.
If I go for the free BB from sky, thats a £25 a month saving, I will have to change my line to bt which is a pain but hey, a £300 a year saving.

---------- Post added at 12:15 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

Will have to wait as my exchange is not ready yet.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Same here at my exchange but the letter states it will be unbundled in the next 6 months. I am already with sky for tv have been since 1993 as its a superior system for tv. Also as sky are saying up to 16mb on what was originally a 22mb system then more people should get closer to the higher end of the speed. On paper it sounds the business, plus a nice saving on price.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

thanks, winroute ? google comes up with firewalls ?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I'm definitely interested. Seems I have to wait until August for further action.
Think I'll run ntl and Sky if I can, to judge. I'm a bit 'Better the devil you know.'
The last time that Sky failed here was during a blizzard - about 15 years ago.

I hope I can choose a less stodgy email addy. :D

Re: Sky Broadband
 

im very tempted to swith to sky now ;)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

You'd need Winroute or a dual WAN router or similar to load balance between two connections.

Unlimited may be able to assist better than me.[/quote]


I have the netgear fvs124g dual wan router. It works but its a pig of a router and very buggy. You can also use wingate but again its hit and miss. Its not a very easy action to carry out with the present versions of windows. There is options in linux but you need a good understanding of ipchains in linux to do it.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I'm quite concerned that there are no in-depth terms and conditions on the Sky Broadband site. For all we know the first time you download an MP3/movie that you may not have the...ahem...right to, then they send around Inspector Knacker. This is Rupert "The Dirty Digger" Murdoch's business we're talking about here - I doubt he looks kindly on someone illegally downloading 20th Century Fox material via his own ISP.

As a Sky subscriber and a stand alone NTL cable subscriber I am very tempted (even if I can only get 2mb), but I would prefer to know what their T&Cs are (not that I ever download anything other than linux distros of course)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Actively monitoring and screening the content that users download is a bad idea as it gives a reasonable case to being sued for what users do, after all if you can monitor / screen it for your own purposes why can't you do this for everyone?

That's a bit 'tin foil hat' like, the AOL ISP is owned by AOL Time Warner and I seriously doubt that AOL subscribers are monitored to see if they are downloading Warner Bros films.

ISPs may need to keep records of what their users do but what you describe is extremely stupid, it would also need a lot of expensive hardware which isn't actually there. See the UKOnline forums on ADSLGuide, hardware that can 'peek' into traffic is on the network but only on the 'offnet' BT IPStream service and as far as I can see reading it no-one gets into trouble over what they download, just how much.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

the tin hat has never failed me yet. ;)

I will have to dwell on it a little. I have registered interest, we'll see what happens

Re: Sky Broadband
 

it seems setting up a linux box and going through that is the best (cheapest) option.
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Netw..._21828553.html
if you look hard enough, you might find a livecd or a virtual emulator image somewere already half setup.

http://search.ntlworld.com/ntlworld/...ad+balance+&cr=
http://search.ntlworld.com/ntlworld/...ad+balance+&cr=
http://search.ntlworld.com/ntlworld/...tiple+ISPs+&cr=

Re: Sky Broadband
 

And with the imminent auction of AOL uk, it's even more unlikely they are monitored. If they did indeed have a window into what people were downloading, surely they would put off such an auction and wait until they had acquired a few cheap lawsuits first.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

They where the first company to stick their hat in the ring and offer truly free dial-up internet to all their customers.

Not one internet provider is able to guarantee a stable connection to every single user.

Maybe you missread. Every property that is digital tv ready has the capability to have broadband.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

What about DTV customers in ex Videotron areas of West London?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

K I am further away from the exchange at work and got the same responce from the bt tester thingy. We get 8000k down and 800k up.

However It seems a very flakey service though that might be down to the crap 'business' router bt gave us.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

ok thanks, by the way i looked at some cisco wan routers, why are they all £400-£500 when you can get some (not cisco) for about £50-£60, i know cisco are the best but...:disturbd:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Linksys routers are from the consumer arm of Cisco. Even though basically better then most, doesn't mean they are perfect. Far from it actually.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Yeah, Cisco don't target the home user, they go for businesses. Plus, when you're a corporate customer you get access to a dedicated account manager who will resolve/escalate issues you have, so you don't waste hours speaking to muppets on 1st-line tech support. That service alone is worth paying the inflated prices for.

Cisco aren't the only ones to charge that sort of money for kit... Juniper, Nortel, Alcatel, etc... they're all charging pretty much the same kinda prices.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

:rolleyes:

Let me get this right.

The world according to Neil and Sky

Insert Sky when required.

_ _ _ invented the following

TV
Phone
Broadband
Vod
Mobile Phone
HD Tv

Anything that any other company did first but SKY should have done it first anyway.

:D

Re: Sky Broadband
 

is it me or has this thread gone off topic ?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Sorry its just that there seems to be a common theme from a certain member that sky is always right and they invented everything before anyone else.

Sorry i think i should have put it in another thread.

sorry back to how Sky are leading by giving Broadband and how NTL will now have to play catch up :rolleyes:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Virgin ADSL?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Umm....

When did ntl start supplying ADSL down their own phone lines?

Actually wtf does being able to get Virgin ADSL have to do with being in an ntl DTV area? You can get that everywhere?

This thread is becoming a bit of a slanging match which is unfortunate. Sky's deal is very good for those in the covered areas and will no doubt take a lot of custom from cable if it doesn't react appropriately.

I think there have been some efforts to detract away from all this and far too many one sided arguments. Both sides have their good and bad points but what Sky have done is disrupt the market by offering competitively priced deals.

I think people seem to be distracted by the capping, the fact remains that if it suits the way you do things even the offnet deal at £18/month for 40GB is very good, and the £5 / £10 8-40GB and 16GB-unlimited deals are competitive.

Likewise if you don't want a phone line the ntl a la carte deal becomes more attractive, and being able to download hundreds of GB a month for £18 or £25 a month might appeal to some, especially if you don't have digital TV or are satisfied with Freeview.

Comparing like for like unless ntl are bunding 10Mbit for £10/month in with thier TV service they are not offering a product at the moment that competes. I know they will be enhancing their product line shortly though.

Not sure either why there is the need to dump on or big up one side or the other, at the end of the day I really don't care who wins the broadband 'race', Sky make plenty of money out of their TV and other operations and if ntl were to see a significant market share drop the people at the top might reevaluate and consider getting people in to run the company who know **** from elbow and care about customer service and engineering.

The main difference from my point of view in the two companies at the moment is that Sky are prepared to speculate to accumulate and are investing heavily while ntl are continuing an ongoing program of outsourcing and cost cutting.

Here's hoping that the need to compete reverses this trend and that customers are the winners in all of this as to be honest the bar has been raised and now cable needs to show its' hand and keep up.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Very good post :tu:.

what i don't want here is NTL thinking they can go back to capping because Sky are doing it.

Ntl have a habit of knee jerk reaction to anything they see as any form of threat. I would sooner that NTL sit back look at the take up of this offer by Sky, Look at the restrictions of each company's deals and then and only then come up with a offer which will keep customers happy :).

I am willing to wait and see what they offer, I to have been told some of what they are about to do but i cannot talk about it here. But if some of it is true then boy do i want some of it.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

speaking as a broadband customer of NTL, i think the only way they can win over customers is to do a bundle which upsets sky, but how can they do that when NTL's television service is 'inferior' (sorry NTL fanboys :D) to SKY's, the only thing i can see them competing on right now is the telephone service, with an outside of chance of broadband, thats if NTL change pricing and speed.......

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Correct

And that's where i get worried. NTL TV is the pits compared to Sky so NTL will have to look at their products and make a offer to keep customers from jumping ship. If that offer is enforced NTL TV then its will not work :(. NTL are renowned for knee jerk reactions and that is what i am worried about.

I would hope that they attack Sky on broadband, which frankly NTL should be able to batter Sky for a six.

NTL the ball is in your court dont drop the dam thing :)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Ntl should also be able to use their phone lines to advantage too. Why does it cost more to call ntl CS from a ntl phone line than it does from a BT line :confused:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Why does it cost ANYTHING to call NTL Customer Services?

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Because NTL seem to think that customers should pay in more ways than one for problems with their service? I think it's out of order but unless someone tells NTL that they cannot charge unless they can keep the queues to below 2-3 minutes then I cannot see NTL changing anything.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

has anyone seen NTL's advert in the papers showing a comparision between NTL and Sky broadband where they say its something like £240 more expensive with the sky option in the first year. Most of the cost is due to having to have a BT phone line at £11 a month and NTL saying that for their b/band you dont need a phone. Thats fine but with the Sky option you have a phone ie an extra service that NTL havent priced for in the comparison, talk about not comparing apples with apples.

its not like many people would have NTL TV, B/Band and no phone at all!

Re: Sky Broadband
 

very very good point and yes i saw the advert in todays news of the world

Re: Sky Broadband
 

to be honest i think most major compaines are now resorting to charge customers for calls, sky do, BT dont, NTL do....... CS should be free, so should faults (tv telephone), technical support i can forgive them for charging, but it should be capped, say 4p per minute for a maximum of 10-15 mins, after that they pickup the bill.

i think thats fair.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Telcos should not charge for phone calls from customers.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Or to put it another way:

Only 50% of people connected to an ADSL2+ enabled exchange are getting 10Mbit on it, fact ;)
75% are blessed with <16Mbit :)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

clever words, "at every property that offers digital TV" :) they just need to extend that to "everyone of their customers".

I wonder if ntl are even considering investment at all that expands their footprint.

---------- Post added at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Are those official stats?

Take here for example I llive in an urban area hardly out in the sticks. I am 1 mile away from the city centre and in a highly populated area.

This side of town there is 1 exchange yes 1 covering a 10km radius, do you think 50% of people connected to that exchange will hit 10mbit? I think 50% would be lucky to even get a service.

I am on a exchange in the city but its far side, BTs checker estimated 4.5mbit for me, the line can synch at 6400kbit but because of various problems with the line and BT's way of fixing it involves dumbing down the bandwidth I can get a stable synch of around 4600-4800kbit. This then is worn down to 3mbit because of their faulty BRAS system. Granted BRAS isnt a factor on LLU.

Until BT get fibre rolled out to cabinets or build more exchanges then cable is superior to ADSL by a mile. Currently BT dont care tho, if the line is in spec then they wont touch it, and in spec means you can use it for ringing up people, if its no good for adsl then its tough luck.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

They say bull**** baffles brains, good try ntl :erm:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

*Sigh*

I was directly answering someone who claimed that you had to be on top of the exchange to receive reasonable speeds.

Please feel free to stick to the basement if stuff like this is all you have to add to discussions in these sections, thx.

I'll find some exact figures from the official stats when I can be bothered for those people on the mission of 'cable good, DSL bad'.

---------- Post added at 15:19 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------

Yup.

I live in a highly populated area... my line is currently synched at full ADSL 1 rate with room for more bandwidth and I get 970kB/s on it. I'm 700m from my exchange. I'd bet that most on this exchange are within a couple of km.

You sure about that? How many people are within 3 or 4km of the exchange?

Depending on your line you can reasonable expect 10Mbit on ADSL2+. I am aware of BT's methods to increase stability, they consist of interleaving and increasing target SNR.

BT would love to roll out fibre to cabinets, unfortunately while Ofcom keep them held by the balls there's no point. Why invest when you're going to be forced to offer access to your investment for peanuts? It's interesting that we don't see anyone suggesting that ntl unbundle their network. Something to do with a Mr Carter possibly and it's just become institutionalised that BT must be held back by any means necessary to allow cable and LLU to catch up, meanwhile essentially pushing BT into rolling DSL out all over the country, even places that anywhere else in the world wouldn't even be considered for DSL deployment.

Anyway we digress!

---------- Post added at 15:24 ---------- Previous post was at 15:19 ----------

Welcome to the wonderful world of advertising. :) They're hardly going to say 'For basic TV, a phone line, and 10Mbit+ unlimited broadband Sky's deal is £x / month cheaper' so both sides will pick whatever suits them as a comparison ;)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I am 1.66km straight line distance but because of the route BT picked for the line when they laid it its well over 4km actual distance.

So you cant look at a map and draw a circle covering 2km and say right all those people will get 10mbit it dont work like that.

Yes I am very sure about the 10km radius, unless samknows has missing exchanges.

---------- Post added at 16:01 ---------- Previous post was at 15:57 ----------

I think the real situation is yes ofcom will force them to resell it, but lets not kid ourselves they will still be reselling it at a profit, like they still make a profit on the ADSL they are forced to resell. Its just the BT shareholders want XXXXXX profit instead of XXXX.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

You reckon they make a ton of profit on LLU now? You're mistaken if you think that's the case.

I'm aware that you can't draw a circle and say xxx will get x speed there - I do actually work with the stuff every day I don't base what I know on reading forums.

Your exchange might be different and infact I think Leicester is one of the notable areas like that along with Milton Keynes, however if you think you can extrapolate that to over 5,000 exchanges I'd disagree.

http://www.broadbanduk.org/reports/d...5_Analysys.pdf

Indicates 50% of UK lines are less than 2KM long offering theoretical 15Mbit on ADSL2+.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/cm/...ns_regions.pdf

Gives a somewhat less optimistic view, so if we take something in the middle 25% being appropriate for 16Mbit is reasonable, as is 50% being capable of >10Mbit.

Another issue is that a lot of UK lines are actually outperforming the expected performances due to the copper plany being of a better quality than anticipated, though obviously some are also underperforming.

Anyway there's some data to chew over, the first report is based on data from operators themselves, the second is extrapolated.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Leics seems to be a black hole for broadband its notably poor for both BT and ntl then.

---------- Post added at 16:56 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

ofcom say only 17% are within 2km, I think 2km doesnt give 16mbit tho, people actually getting 16mbit on current adsl2+ services are around 1-1.5km from exchange.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

See the previous, Ofcom are guessing and extrapolating while the BSG data is alledgedly from the operators themselves.

A quick look at adslguide shows a user at 4.1km receiving over 8Mbit.

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/8...60608124na.jpg is at least 1.4KM long, looking at the stats and depending on the effect the router could have I'd say about 1.7 (attenuation @ 300khz / 10) and shows 20Mbit.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Myself i find its best to get a real comparison from people who have the different services. I also find that most companies & official bodies seem to follow this addage:- if you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bull****

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I think ofcom used the formula that actual line distance compared to straight line is 1.4 or 140%, personally I think that seems too low. I wonder if BT are using as crow flies as their figures are higher.

Yeah I know its very possible for longer lines to over perform, but because also lines under perform its best to assume they cancel each other out.

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

Hmm he got a very low attenuation, how sure is it that the line is 4.1km with a 24 attenuation. 20mbit is impossible at 4km no matter how good the noise.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I suggested it was at least 1.4km and probably around 1.7, said nothing about 4.1? Was referring to another guy receiving 8Mbit at around that range.

---------- Post added at 07:12 ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 ----------

That's the key really. Unbiased opinions. All too rare these days though :cool:

Re: Sky Broadband
 

I think, thanks to the recent(ish) collapse of the comms market, and thanks to the next one that I think we are heading for, then very few TelCos or ISPs make a profit, excessive or otherwise.

I would have thought that line quality would be a major contributory factor to speed. After all, if you have a bad line, you are not going to get good speeds even if you are next door to the exchange.

Similarly, if you have a good line, you will get better speeds over longer distances.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Stuart yeah thats correct, some people on adslgudie for instance posting and rightly so that they peed off with been 500m from exchange and haveing a line that 3km long, others post with say a 2km line and low attenuation but have massive noise on their line again slowing down their speeds. Its possible to have low noise but high fluctuation so bursts of noise that force BT to raise your SNR to make the line stable, again reducing your speed.

Likewise its possible to have a long line that has very low noise and it over performs but I think the former is more common then the latter.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

just saw the sky advert for the broadband service, so i went ahead and pressed red on my sky+ remote, nothing new to report really, everything we already know, just more clearly explained, pages were quick to load (take note NTL) you could register your interest through the STB, or going to the sky broadband website.

its a 12 month contract to the service level you subscribe to.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Amazingly there's also been the odd person here and there who's enjoying a pretty reasonable service on ADSL.

Who'd have thought that with considerably over 100 million subscribers on ADSL there'd be a few happy people.

Sorry Chrysalis but I think you're forgetting that, just as here, ADSLGuide is not going to be frequented for the most part by people who are there to say how wonderful and stable their service is. You're also again extrapolating your own issues and those of a few other people as being the vast majority.

I appreciate that BT haven't done the greatest job with their rollout of Max DSL but that shouldn't be confused with DSL being a bad technology. Again mine works beautifully and I'd imagine I'm in the vast majority there. That majority is pretty much silent while the minority are far more vocal.

Unfortunate that this thread is again degenerating into a cable vs DSL discussion, really who gives a **** about the technology, if the companies using it offer the wrong products at the wrong prices or don't use the technology properly it's all completely irrelevant.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

of course, the poll on adslguide shows under 50% are having no problems or had problems but now resolved, again I know that figure will not be fully representative since people on there will be unbalanced. The fiure I will go by is the ofcom 2km figure tho who can probably expect a reliable service of 16meg or close to it. For 10meg yes I agree it will be a higher figure but have no idea what, but I think it will be under 50%.

Sorry to add, I am not disputing the technology and agree its the way its been handled, with FTTC dsl will be a pretty kickass product for the most part.

Re: Sky Broadband
 

NTL have????

You're thinking YEARS Ago in the days of dialup...

Sky have offered their lowest BB for free..

Re: Sky Broadband
 

Yea but what good is a 2 gig cap to anyone in these days. Bet you there is some big charges in the small print for going over.

So let me get this right. If its off net it has a 2gig cap and is heavily traffic shaped. That's forward thinking.:rolleyes: (service is provide by ukonline which has a traffic shaping policy at this time)

Re: Sky Broadband
 

There's no free service offnet, £17.99 a month, 40GB cap and that lovely traffic shaping ;)