Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Dear all

Seems like the banks have been very naughty !

Have a go I am going to.........Link

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I'm going to do this too... i will let you know how i get on;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Check this baby out http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/ for all the information you could need. The forums there are a combination of their original forums and the Banking Action Group and there you'll find a lot of help and stories from people who have both already done this and are in the process.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Mmmmm, very interesting link, having read it I wonder how many of 'us' will think of it as too much hassel and leave it at that. I would be owed a fortune :blush: lol, well 1000's of £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒââ‚ ¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒâ€š £ÂÃâ €šÃ‚£Ãƒâ€šÃ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚£ÃƒÆ’‚ £'s at any rate, I wonder if this would still apply to an account that has been closed for a couple of years. ??

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Or you could try to not incur any bank charges and not have to go through this.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Go girl, let us know :tu:



Mmmmm, I might just do it, what have I to lose :shrug:

---------- Post added at 13:28 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

To late for me my friend, was a bit of a naughty lad a few years back whilst going through my divorce ....................long story :blush:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Note the word try for some people this has not been possible !

The letter is there..............guy at work sent it off and got £200 back

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I have been charged twice for going overdrawn (normally by about £10 or £20 or when I have paid for building work and money has not arrived in account in time) - always phoned to complain and had it credited back.

All I am saying is that most banks offer free large overdrafts anyway (mine is £1000). I never use it but know its there if there are ever timing delays of transfers between accounts.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Humpf!The last time I got clobbered with an unauthorised overdraft charge it was taken out and replaced within the day because my wages were deposited on the same day...I would have been annoyed because on the same day I'd checked my account online and I was £4.99 in the black in the morning and expecting my wages to be paid in.The next time I checked to see if my wages had appeared I was supposedy overdrawn by £25,had been charged and uncharged and finally paid. :rolleyes:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Most banks usually let you have the charges back if you ring them, but they are limited to the amount of times they can do this per year.

Needless to say, i have hammered all opportunities of this on all of my banks accounts and credit cards and catalogues lol.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

very interesting, I know a few times I have had £75 charges and off the back of my head I think their is a few hundred at least.

Glad I kept all my statements now.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Even if you hadn't you could ask them for a backlog of them :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The only charge i've had in the last six years was for late payment on my credit card one month (I was a day late) they charged me £25 I think - I rang them up and pointed out that in four years with them I had never missed one before and that if they insisted on this for being one day late then I would zero the account there and then with a balance transfer from a rival - and never use the account again (but not actually close it, just leave it dormant). They refunded the charge.

I paid it off next month anyway, and never used the card again.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

:mad: I think it`s disgusting the way that Banks have an uncleared cheque or wage going into the account and then take out all of the outgoing payments before clearing the incoming funds!!!!!!!!! Just making themselves some more " Illegal" profits!:td: :mad:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

A couple of months ago Nat West asked me if I wanted to upgrade my account, not really bothered I said yes and forgot about it, I then recieved a letter saying I had gone £1 overdrawn due to bank charges and they were going to charge me £35 any it turned out they had set up a new account so I had two, but the real point here is (other than them charging £35 for being £1 overdrawn :mad: ) is that it goes on your credit record for between 3 and 6 months. Needless to say they dropped the charges but before I hung up I jokingly said could I apply for a loan, she said try in six months!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Mr Angry needs to see this thread.....

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Gonna give it ago as well :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Yes. By law you can claim all of the charges (plus interest of 8%) from the date of your claim going back six years.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Great advice as always. :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Right, I'm on it, IF I get half back I'll be a very very happy bunny :D :drunk: all round at the next meet, meet ? did someone say meet ?? well we haven't for a while ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

You know what I was thinking about looking into another Northern meet. From memory there had been enough London/Southern ones.

Let's wreck Manchester again :)

Back on topic - letter wrote and ready to mail :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

A few points worth noting on this matter are as follows:

Send your request by recorded / guaranteed next day delivery. Do NOT send it to a PO BOX address (Royal Mail cannot afford you a guarantee of delivery). You are dealing with a legal matter so it's best for you as a potential plaintiff to be seen to abide by the law.

All too often companies will maintain that they haven't received your correspondence. By law (if they are a Ltd company or PLC - which most of these gangsters are) they have to have a registered office address for the purposes of "service" (serving legal papers / documentation) so look through all the paraphenalia you have from the company in question and send it to their Registered Office Address. Any failure on their part to acknowledge receipt of same if you have a guaranteed receipt and proof of delivery can constitute a breach of the Companies Order 1985 (a further headache you can give them).

When you make your initial request under the 1998 Data Protection Act ALWAYS include the following statement;

"Please note that I am making this request under the terms of The Data Protection Act 1998 in accordance with Chapter 29, Part IV of the exemptions clauses, specifically Paragraph 35 part 2 (b) thereof in respect of all and any data which you hold in relation to me.

I understand that there is a maximum statutory fee of £10.00 payable in respect of this request. Please debit my account for this amount if you feel it appropriate to do so".

By citing the above Exemption Clauses you are affording the respondant no leeway / get out. Effectively you are advising them that you require the information for the purposes of obtaining legal advice or taking legal action.

Once you've received your charges history you should calculate the interest owed (I can provide anyone with a copy of a spreadsheet to do this automatically should they require it).

Once you've done the maths send your letter off pretty much as described on the motley fool site.

Users of this forum might want to take note that the common law which covers illegal penalty charges is not restricted to banks and credit card companies. The fact is that the OFT were forced to look at banks and credit card companies because they are, by far, the worst offenders. It relates to any contract under consumer law and such terms are referred to as "in terrorem". Essentially they are put in place by one of the parties to the contract as a "deterrent" (penalty) to deter the other party from failing to honour their part of the contract.

One such example of a penalty charge is the recently introduced "£1 0.00 late payment fee" (by its very own title a penalty) from a certain company.

Before anyone gets all sanctimonious with the old "they wouldn't do it if it was illegal" and "don't you think their legal dept....etc etc" ad nauseum - ask yourself this.

If it's illegal (as it has already been proven in court) then how come the banks, with access to some of the best legal minds in the country, have been doing it for years upon years and refuse steadfastly to attend court to defend their charges when challenged?

I'll tell you why. It's because if you are the type of individual who thinks that a corporate entity (bank or otherwise) is entirely above breaking the law - then you are sadly mistaken and they will continue to fleece you until this money making circus grinds, or is dragged, to a halt.

The sooner people get wise to their rights under common and consumer law the better.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Mr Angry... claim yours and I'll see you down in the Kings Head. ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I'm on my way, let's hook up at the yellow tunnel for a carryout first though!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

And what sort of code is that exactly :shrug: Da Vinci ??? ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I think it's a local thing. According to their profiles, they're both from Belfast ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thought as much, must look out for a yellow tunnel next time I'm over there :D

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I may be able to pay of a loan with this news, quite funny indeed.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I would hazard a guess that it's a Northern Ireland code.....;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

What a absolutely superb post......:tu:

Mr Angry, I salute you! :D

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Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

What he said /\ /\ /\ another top notch bit of info :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

hmm I meant to send mine recorded but posted it normal mail. Well I guess if they don't acknowledge getting it I can always try it recorded..

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The yellow tunnel is a walkway under a bridge, its yellow and a tunnel. :)

Thats where all the lads go to drink their carryouts. Or at least it was when was in Finaghy

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thats the one. Not that I would know of course. :angel:

The advise is brilliant, I don't actually have many issues with it myself but several mates are looking though all this currently. :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Dear all

Forgot to say...................can I have a percentage please ! ;) ;) ;)

Thanks............Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

With pleasure :drunk: all round :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Great.

(Gr)Abbey are going to charge me £210 this month, can't wait to get my statements, they have 16 days to comply under the DPA.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I must give people may paypal acount !

;) ;) ;)

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

After me Mike.....

*Cough* Posts 74 & 76 *Cough*

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...highlight=hone ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

They have replied stating they will happily do it if I pay them £10.

Anyone wanna give me a reason why I should not pay it?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

You're out of options I'm afraid.

Once they invoke he statutory fee you have to pay up to receive the data.

In saying that - you can add it to your overall claim.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

No problem, It's not like £10 is much in the whole game of things.... :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Bit stupid really of them though, after all they know that you're going to add it to your claim and if you've gotten this far then you aren't going to stop for £10. :erm:

Good on you all, almost makes me wish I had some to claim back! :D

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Sounds like the games afoot, well done HM, I will get around to actioning something this week :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Strike while the irons hot and all that :)

Just gonna log into work and print off a copy of the letter and send it together with a copy of their letter and a new letter with a £10 cheque.

Though it does seem odd having to send a cheque to my own bank.

At least I also know I have the right address :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Can I ask which bank it is you're dealing with?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Yorkshire bank

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Past experience suggests that Yorkshire / Clydesdale can be a bit anal on the matter of DPA requests.

Keep me up to speed with developments and I'll help / advise where I can.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I agree with the anal bit, this is what they sent....


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2006/05/1.gif

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

God bless Aileen's cotton socks, she seems to be labouring under the impression that they have 40 days from receipt of your cheque when in actual fact the clock is ticking from receipt of your request.

Pretty much as I thought. Send them the £10.00 and let them get on with it.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I'm hoping it won't come to much argument as it was return of post that letter came via. If they can do that then my request can't take much longer.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Arrived this morning in 2 very large envelopes, will go through them tonight :)

Just to be pedantic I had recieved another letter confirming my payment and saying upto 40 days again :confused:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Reclaiming bank and credit card charges was on TV last night ITV1 2000 hrs Trevor MacDonald.

Banks are not going to court, as they do not want the courts to set a president, which everyone can then use. In the cases shown they were giving full funds totalling in the thousands. One person got back 4.5k :) :)

How it is going with everyone ???

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Mum's received every charge back she's compalained about so far. She always has done, the banks are wrong and they knew it. :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Will be able to let you all know the horror of my total tonight :(

Still if I get it back I'll be made up.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Does this go for store cards too? Argos have charged me £17.50 TWICE now, and it's not that i didn't pay my bill, i was just a few pence short and they refuse to refund it, and believe me i tried every trick in the book.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I think this also applys to those sort of cards pia, Might cost you a couple of 1st class stamps but the return will pay for a night out ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

#

If i was to reclaim all my bank charges, credit card and store card charges i would be a very happy bunny.

Now, i really will have to get my finger out and do this!

I've had another £30 charge from my bank for going overdrawn since i started reading this, and i rang up but was told i couldn't have it back- no suprises there.
I just left it though cos i felt i didn't know what i was talkling about enough to blag it...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Having had a look at my current and last bank statement - i've been charged 5 times for a cheque going out of my account ( had no money in account anyhow but still, they pay the cheque for you and then give you the one charge which i wouldn't have minded). How ridiculous is this going to get? It seems that every 2 weeks I am being charged £38 for the same cheque going out of my account! It's criminal! :mad:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Then you will be able to claim all of this back.

---------- Post added at 15:50 ---------- Previous post was at 15:48 ----------

Have a go Pia its really easy, If you want the letter writing I have mine saved and can send you it. (minus my personal details of course) ;) Mind you on second thoughts I can't think of a nicer stalker :P

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I already claimed £228 worth of charges back 3 weeks ago! Will they still refund me for the 5 times they've tried taking this cheque out of my account? :erm:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

As far as I understand it they will have to as the charges seem to be illegal.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Sounds good to me! I'll have to get on the case again tomorrow! Cheers hun :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

No problem though its Mike (the OP) and Mr Angry providing the useful info. I have yet to see any cash from the bank yet they are playing ball so far.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well thanks for your help Mike - and Mr Angry! Good luck with getting some money back - at least I had £228 out of the B***ards!! :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

This is what was linked on the OP

Here's the background

Banks and card providers charge penalties if you breach your contract by defaulting, making a late payment, going overdrawn, returning a bounced cheque, or if a direct debit or standing order fails. The thing is, they're not allowed to do this.

What they can do is get you to cover the administrative costs that arise from it, but how much can it cost for a computer to print off a patronising automated letter, or to not process a direct debit? Not £25 to £40, but that's what they charge.

As many of you will have heard, the Office of Fair Trading has decided that banks and credit card companies should charge no more than £12 for such breaches of contract. However, the only reason they set this figure was: "In order to swiftly reduce charges and avoid heavy-handed regulation." In other words, the charge is still too high, but they just quickly set a limit to help all consumers immediately. If they procrastinated over regulation instead, we'd take longer to see the benefits. Also, it'd cost businesses money to implement new regulations, and those costs would filter down to us.

Since the OFT report, many people have already successfully recovered all of the charges plus interest that occurred in the past six years. (Six years is as far back as you can go in the courts.) You can do this too, whether you're claiming against your bank's charges or your card provider's. Here's how I'm going to do it:

1. Check how much they owe you

Firstly, work out what you're owed. I got this information by looking at my statements online, but you might use paper statements. If you don't have all of them, write to your provider quoting your account number and asking:

Please send me a comprehensive list of all the charges that you have made to my account in the past six years, showing the date and amount of each charge, and a description of what it was for. I make this request using my rights under the Data Protection Act and expect your response within 40 days.

You may want to call them a few days later to ensure they've received the letter. Make a note of the name of the person you speak to, as well as the time and date.

2. Ask for your money back

When you have details of the charges, you need to write to them again to request that they pay you back. My lawyer (OK, she's my mother, but she's a darn good solicitor too!) advised me that when you write to banks it carries a lot more weight if you show them in no uncertain terms that you know what the law is and where your authority for making a claim comes from. To that end, I'm going to use this letter, adapted from the successful one used by the Consumer Action Group:

---

Dear Sir/Madam

Account no: (your account number)

Over the past six years, you have charged me for (enter what they have charged you for, e.g. exceeding your credit limit). It has come to my attention that this is unlawful at common law, and under statute and recent consumer regulations.

In the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account, it is implied that you will conduct yourselves in a manner which complies with UK law.

I require full repayment of these charges, which I calculate at £xxxx plus interest of £xxxx. The total is xxxx. I also ask you to remove any default notices on my credit record that are related to these charges. A correction or amendment to the entries are not acceptable.

If you do not comply fully within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount, plus interest and costs, plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 without further notice.

Furthermore, I shall submit to the OFT a complaint under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 upon the basis that you have failed to comply with their direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not 'fit and proper' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act.

Yours faithfully

xxxx

---

The reason why you ask for default notices to be removed is if you defaulted on a charge. It's not fair that your credit record looks bad because of an unfair charge. If you're sure this hasn't happened to you, you can of course remove all the text in italics. If you include the text in italics, make sure you de-italicise it first!

Again, I'd follow up this letter with a call a few days later.

3. The response

If my bank doesn't respond in two weeks I'm going to give them a call. They may offer a full refund, which would be fantastic. If they offer a partial refund, I'll tell them it's not acceptable and write another letter telling them so.

If the bank tells me that they'll get back to me later, I'll write to them saying that I'll allow them just 14 more days before I take them to court. (I'll attach a court form too, see point 4.)

If the bank tells me the charges are not unlawful, I'll ignore their bluff and stick to my guns. So far, the banks have paid out in full before going to court in almost every single case, so clearly they know they're wrong.

4. Wave court action in their faces

If they still haven't settled, I'll download a county court claim form called an 'N1' from the internet. I'll write the history of what happened on the form and quote the relevant law. Then, rather than issuing the form, I'll send it to my bank. With it I'll enclose a letter saying that I shall issue court proceedings in 14 days if they don't agree to settle in full. I'll also enclose bank statements as supporting evidence.

You can get the claim form and related guidance here.

5. Take court action

If they don't pay, I'll then issue court proceedings. This sounds scary, but it probably won't even get as far as court anyway. My experience of small claims (claims of less than £5,000) is that big businesses that are in the wrong will often let it get right to the point where court proceedings are imminent, then they'll pay up. You don't need a solicitor at the hearing if the claim is less than £5,000, as it's all rather informal. It'll cost around £130, which I can add to my claim. If I lose (and I'd be very surprised if I did), I won't have to pay the banks costs unless they can show that I've acted unreasonably. Which I won't.

If my claim was for more than £5,000, I'd get a solicitor before proceeding. Good ol' mum!

> For more guidance on claiming, see HM Courts Service and Consumer Action Group.

> Read the follow up articles on claiming more charges, calculating interest owed and sticking to your guns.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Right...................:erm:

60 Bank statements later the grisley details...:erm:

Lets just set the scene and say I did got through a divorce and this did not help things out at all and as some one here will know if your not on the ball 1 bank charge can snowball into other charges very easily.

I'm with Yorkshire bank and they charge in the following way. They have a day rate if your over drawn (£5,ÃƒÆ ’ƒâ€šÃ‚£6,ÃÆ⠀™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£8) Its gone up over the last few years. If you go over drawn they also apply a charge the next month (£25,à ƒÆ’‚£20) and this has actually dropped ober the years. They also apply a charge of £33 for unpaid items and sometimes £33 for 'debit under advice'.

This is the break down since sept 2001

7 x £5.00
101 x £6.00
53 x £8.00
10 x £20
12 x £25
18 x £33

Grand total £2159 in bank charges in 5 1/2 years and I'm gutted. It makes terrible reading once you add it all up and frankly I'm ashamed that I ran my account like that.

That asside lets see what the bank will have to give back :) thats the only good point......


Thought about wether or not to post this but I would like advice from mike and mr angry as to the chances of getting this back and lets face it it stands as good advice to those thinking of getting into debt.. it's not nice.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Excellent post................well done.

See letter above or the link on first post....................get that letter off to them and ask for your £2159 back !

Cases I heard of and seen in press people have got a full refund.................... so please do it you have nothing to loose !

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

that's blantantly immoral to be extorting £228 from someone in 3 weeks. the average person could be put in financial difficulty by it. they make money out of misery and exploiting the weak.

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------

handyman, I'm with nationwide - transfer to it - the overdraft is free you only pay interest. you apply for it via the on line banking screen, over the years I have gradually increased my limit and it's now £8k.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I can't tell you how bad I felt during 2002-3.

There was a point that I had zero cash for so long that I forgot my pin number and that with earning £1500 from ntl.

On of the charges was £33 for refusing a bill when I was £8.00 overdrawn, this incurred a £6.00 charge for 15 days as I did not check my bank account assuming nothing had gone in or out. Then they hit me with a £25 charge for the over drawn period. That 1 mistake cost £148 for been a few quid overdrawn. They really did not help the situation.

---------- Post added at 22:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:19 ----------

I can't transfer to another bank I have such a low credit record. Can't take advantage of any savings.

Yorkshire bank is part of Clydesdale bank which is in turn owned by National Australia bank group btw ;) According to the literature I got.

I think I'll look at the joint account tommorow but that mostly during my getting better period so won't amount to much.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

and I suppose they refused to increase or give you an overdraft?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I raised my overdraft to £1200 before I had any troubles. Then when I did get into bother the bank decided that they should reduce the overdraft down to 0 by £75 each month. Of course this just made the situation worse as I moved to a lower paid job as well.

Even now depite the fact that my current account has been clear and ran well for a year they refuse to allow me a over draft such that when I made a mistake thinking I'd paid for something with my joint account switch when I'd used my current account switch I went overdrawn and was getting charged £8.00 per day. I kicked off and got the charges removed, after all my joint account was well in credit.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

You should always leave it with a polite - "Please could you tell me who you Data Protection Manager is as I wish to get my last 6 years of statements to see if you have charged me indisproportianate charges that have been deemed unlawfull by the OFT?"

Then see what happens... :D

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

a disgraceful state of affairs. they should make their money on providing a service not by screwing the customer.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Any one know what is a reasonable amount of interest to add or should I leave that out as I would have to calculate the interest on each charge?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

of the order of 8% is allowed by the small claims court.

and when you lodge claim on Small claims count web site, it prompts if you want to claim interest, since some specifc text has to be added to your claim which it will do automatically

On the CAG site. in the Bank Action Group section they have a spread sheet to assist working out interest which applies + lots more people going thru same issues. have a look your banks bound to have a sub forum - the're all at it, overcharging that is
Although body of your letter looks familair so maybe you are already aware of that site

I've just lodged my claim into the courts, having heard nothing from bank in response to ANY of my letters on this matter, lest see if that gets their attention

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I have decided to go ahead with this as my bank today ****ed me of royally big time.

Basically I deposited 2 payments into my bank on the 23rd may via online transaction from another bank.

I have a standing order that goes out on the 2nd june.

So 7 working days prior to the standing order.

It is now 7th june and one of the deposits is in my account, the other one (larger) still nowhere to be seen, the other bank informed me it was marked as cleared their end on thursday 1st june so meaning it should have been sitting in my account on that date.

So because of this 2 events have occured, the bank is earning interest on my cash while it sits in limbo in their clearance system, I have been charged £35 for a unpaid standing order, for a measly £9 shortfall on funds.

I went to my branch asking them to clear the standing order on the basis the uncleared funds are (a) excessive time uncleared through no fault of my own and (b) the source of the funds is regurly used and has never bounced, they refused. I was even depositing a cheque that day as well from a source that has never bounced so I now currently have a very large amount of money (way larger then £9) waiting to be cleared and a standing order not paid.

The bank is Lloyds TSB and I have noticed recently they are incredibly slow, cheques usually take over a week to clear, my sister says in her bank they 1-3 days and for me its 5-7 working days. If I use a cash machine or buy something on my debit card it doesnt show on my statement for 1-3 days instead of the expected instantly so their entire system seems lagged.

I rang them up yesterday demanding the fee been waived and asked for an overdraft increase, no to both, so I told them they wont cooperate and as a result to expect a letter from me asking for 6 years of charges been refunded, the guy was ignorant saying they are not illegal and good luck to me but I will get nowhere then he hung up on me.

Now I will probably proceed with my claim and instead of counting all the charges up even tho I have most of my statements stored, I will probably ask them to provide the charges to me.

However I am concerned that after they pay out they turn around and say we no longer want to do business with you and closing your accounts, please pay of all outstanding debts (I have a loan and cancelled credit card balance) within X days to avoid debt collectors.

Is there any kind of protection to stop banks simply closing accounts for people claiming back their charges? since that customer will simply be not profitable for the bank anymore apart from interest on any debts so the bank will want to get rid.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I think if they attempted to recall the loan like that then firstly you'd write to them and point out you are continuing the monthly repayments and secondly you'd go through their complaints procedure followed by the banking ombudsman. there's no way a bank would try it on.

move to the nationwide - I was with tsb up until 20 years ago. they were my first bank. I was promised free banking then one day they put £14 worth of charges on my account for regular stuff like cash machine withdrawals and denyed that I was ever told it was free. This was when I was earning £40 a week. then a few years later nationwide started their current account which also paid interest.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I was there in the TSB days and to be fair then it was a very good bank, its when Lloyds tookover that things went downhill, Lloyds strike me as very greedy.

Not sure if moving bank would be too clever tho, would they give a new customer like me a debit card + overdraft facility who never used them before and I seem to have bad credit since every credit check done on me doesnt bode well, it also looks worse on my record that I have been with my bank for short time instead of 9 years.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

alliance and leicester are closing the current accounts of those that do claim - they have to give 30 days notice.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I knew it would happen, but shouldn't it be a simple as just transferring somewhere else?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

yes but for some of the people here transferring isn't possible because their credit rating isn't good.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I'm not sure i totally understand this...

So, charging is illegal, so why are they still doing it? How come one of them regulation companies haven't put a stop to it?
And how come they are allowed to close the bank accounts of people that claim?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I don't understand but rack up another £715 on my claim from my current account.
That will go in the post tommorow :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

For those taking (or considering) legal action to recover charges:

It is a wise move to open an account with somewhere like the Woolwich before you take your current bank to the cleaners. The Woolwich are "pretty cool" about new customers and don't do credit checks on many new customer accounts (depending on the type of account facility required). With many new accounts they also offer to rearrange all your Direct Debits, Standing Orders etc free of charge for you.

Some banks are getting a bit stroppy with customers who successfully claim (ie. everyone who has claimed to date) and are closing some successful applicants accounts. The legality of such actions are currently being looked into and I'm pretty sure that they'll have to stop doing this in the near future or face further legal action from customers (if not Government - who are hell bent on everyone having a bank account so they can keep tabs on all of us).

There is no legal (or logical) argument for any bank to close an account simply because the account holder has won a claim against them. The argument most commonly put forward is that the bank feel that the account is not "profitable" or "incorrectly managed". This is an interesting, if fundamentally flawed, defence of their actions.

Over the past few years the Government (bless 'em) have moved over 93% of benefit payments to BACS / EFT and benefit receipients must have a bank account to receive payments. Additionally, benefit receipient accounts are, on instruction from Government, to be treated differently from the accounts of working individuals in order that the socially disadvantaged are not further penalized by bank charges.

This raises the issues of equality and discrimination (yes, the old chestnut of human rights). I'm personally involved with two current cases where the plaintiffs have threatened (legitimately) to sue their banks for theft after they won back their charges, costs, and interest and their banks closed their accounts.

Guess what? Once the banks realized that charging illegal penalty fees was now the least of their worries and that people were prepared to instigate criminal proceedings for theft they quickly backed down and offered (sorry, "begged") the plaintiffs to reopen their accounts and let bygones be bygones. Neither plaintiff has taken them up on their offer and are currently considering proceeding with the theft charges.

Generally speaking if you take action against your bank for illegal charges it is worth mentioning to them in your letter before action that any attempt to defame or disadvantage you as a result of you exercising your legal rights will result in further legal action.

I find this works a treat since once they receive their summons in respect of the illegal charges you can pretty much rest assured that they'll get the message that you're quite prepared to go to court in the event that they do defame or disadvantage you as a result of you deciding to do so.

Be advised though that 99% of banks do not "roll over" once you threaten action, 99% do not roll over once you issue proceedings, 99% will drag on until the day of the hearing trying to wear you down or brow beat you with legalese and fancy letterheaded missives from their elected counsel. There is an upside though - 99.9% of them, to date, have paid up. The one exception being Lloyds who in one case used a cunning (see: lowdown / sneaky) interprative distraction which, if they attempted to use it again, would be entirely ineffective

Inspiration for all

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5043154.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_j...524077,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/4810490.stm

http://www.lindum-marketing.com/pena...ess-120206.gif

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

OK - have worked for LTSB (many years in a branch, but not at present) - so would like to just add a few things into this.

I am not going to comment on the rights or wrongs of returning cheques etc - only that can be agreed between you and the bank, and the history of the account. As I do not know (or want to know) - I will leave that area.

Standing Orders from other Banks should be sent and receievd within 3 working days - and this has always been the case. In some cases it will be quicker (i.e. from same banks in some cases - but should never take longer). Only change to this is when the credit has incorrect information on it, and needs to be manually processed to the account.

The credits will (for all major banks) leave your account the day in is sent - not 4 days later, to time in when the account is due to get to the other end.Banks may pay interest during this period - but it will have left your bank. Therefore, you need to get them to explain how a payment is 'ceared' 7 days later. Doesn't make sense if you are using major bank - or at least one using APACS.

Cheques DO NOT TAKE 7 days to clear. Fact. They have always taken 4 days (and same day sometimes). Only exception if not drawn on UK bank sort-code. The computer systems automatically make cheques as cleared on the 4th (or earlier) day. No branch involement can change this.

The systems do not lag. They will debit your account the moment they get the 'electronic' payment through. If you withdraw through LTSB Cashpoint (and I believe Link) the payment will show immediately out of your account. However, if a retailer holds onto a transaction, then (although it may have been authorised), until the retailer and their processessing bank process the payment, no monies will come out of your account.

Loan accounts cannot (I believe) be closed early - they are dealt with under the Credit Act. You have agreed to pay then £x over £y months. Providing you make these payments, you are not in breach of the terms, and therefore OK. However, as Alliance & Leicester are doing, they are within their right to ask you to close your account, and give you 30 days notice.

The majority of customers pay (unlike most of Europe) no fees for running their accounts - and therefore people are receiving a free service (which costs a fortune to run - but everyone expects something for free). If people run their accounts badly, they should expect to pay for it. After all, if you go overdrawn without getting agreement, you are taking something that technically does not belong to you (i.e. the bank's money).

Ultimately, if everyone goes down the line of askiong for refunds over the last 6 years, I can see the banks starting to get very pciky, and only operating accounts that are for good customers, and do not run their accounts overdrawn and outside of limits. Therefore, getting accounts in the future would be more difficult, and if people stray from the right side of the limit - accounts closed quickly. Or running accounts for free will disapear. Not going to haooen over the next few years, but at some time in the future, who knows.

All the above are personal opinions, and in no way reflect in Chrysalis. Just setting a few facts right, and then a general opinion on the banking at present.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

lemarsh: Out of interest: what is (roughly) the average cost of running a (private) current account

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I changed banks when my bank of 15 years or so pi**ed me off, they decided to bring forward the date they took a large DD from my account and charge me for going overdrawn. They did this for two months and after complaining 2 month I told them it would be the last, I took all my money out and placed it in an account with a new bank. Fortunately the old bank got in touch with me, apologised and sorted it out, the new bank was a pain in the backside. They offered me exactly the same service as my old bank, but then decided to only let me take out £50 a day from the cash machine and no overdraft facility. (I was happy with no overdraft)

My big argumment was approx £1000 a month going into the account in those days, and I was only allowed to take £50 a day out. My old bank allowed me to take a max of £200 a day back in the days when my wages were only £50 a week.

Changing banks can be very difficult.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I suspect that they are refunding the fees but at the same time do not agree that these fees were unlawful. it's easier just to refund it rather than the expense of fighting the customer. if you go through the complains process and the banking ombudsman because they fail to refund then the cost to the bank will be £100s at least. also once an issue like this goes to the ombudsman and it rules in a consumers favour the banks would then be force to scrap or reduce these fees for all customers and then there might be the issue re back dating. so the last thing they need is a test case.

---------- Post added at 00:07 ---------- Previous post was at 00:01 ----------

I'm not sure if you're referring to just lloydstsb or all banks but...I have it in writing from the nationwide that cheques into their current accounts take 5 working days to clear.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Irrespective of the bank's opinion - penalty fees which are disproportionate and which do not represent the actual liquidated losses are illegal. This, enshrined in consumer contract law, has been proven in a court of law.

The banking ombudsman is, believe me, the last place a bank customer will get restitution. I am not aware of a single case where the ombudsman has ruled in the customers favour in respect of illegal charges.

The OFT, on the other hand.......

Have already told the banks what they need to do to comply with the law - and many of them are now shaking in their boots (as indeed are a lot of law firms and solicitors who have been party to hefty retainers to suppress the illegality / defend this practice by the banks for the past many years).

Thanks to "lemarsh" for your insight / input - you are absolutely correct about the early calling in of loans etc.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I did some research and it seems the regulator has took a tep back.

They enforcing it on credit cards at a date soon to come which is why we seen that barclaycard change in policy. But the overdraft fees are been allowed to continue.

To me this is sending a mixed message, we have 1000s of people claiming back charges on the basis they illegal and banks paying out which would suggest they illegal, but no regulator telling them to scrap the charges or at least reduce them to a proper level.

As for account closure it appears the banks can do what they like, however I did read that if closing the account means asking for a debt back in one go it could break some banking rules that they are supposed to be fair with debt repayments.

---------- Post added at 01:44 ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 ----------

Yeah lloyds appear to be the toughest nut to crack.

So basically if one claims they should expect to lose their account and prepare for it, I noticed people who win their claim are closing their accounts anyway. So people claiming are more or less deciding they no longer want to do business with their bank.

What do you reccomend to people who have debts with the bank tho like a loan, would the bank close the loan also and demand repayment?

---------- Post added at 01:53 ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 ----------

Maybe thats how it should work but isnt happening here.

If I pay in a cheque on a monday, the earliest it will be cleared is friday morning at midnight but usually the following monday or tuesday.

If I use my debit card somewhere, my available balance usually goes down (not always) but the transaction doesnt show until a day or two later.

A transaction from another bank (not standing order) seems to take an age it should be max 7 working days I am told but usually 3 to 5 days, it took 10 working days for me, you saying it doesnt happen but it DID happen.

The transaction was in Lloyds TSB system for 3 or 4 working days doing what? dont know for sure but if they dont tell me soon I am reporting them to the financial obdusmen.

Lloyds TSB in the past have taken extra direct debit payments from my account for my loan without authorisation, I ring up and they refund, except guess what? a transaction from themselves needs 5 days to clear. If during this time a direct debit or standing order isnt cleared I am liable for the fees they wont refund.

It seems the banks are claiming that if penalties on the poorer people in society are dropped (they currently subsidise free banking for the rich) that free banking will end.

They convieniantly ignore monthly banking fees paid by many for certian facilities such as overdrafts (my select account is £7 a month) again people with large balances get these fees waived. They ignore that whilst money is been cleared they earn interest on it and its theres to use how they want, yes banks do make money this way, it was reported sometime last year that if they wanted to they could scrap clearance delays but in return would charge for ATMs to recover the lost profits so the idea got scrapped. Of course they also make money from lending out money with the interest they get back.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

OK - some point-by-point responses. Please don't think I am just defending my employer - I do believe that fees are to high, however, I do believe that there should be a level playing field with all information. The problem with programmes like those shown on BBC/ITV are:
1) Trying to create good viewing figures - and 'company bashing' (whether it is Banks or Airlines etc) is good viewing.
2) You ALWAYS only get 1 side of the story. The Banks cannot actually talk to the TV Company because of customer confidentiality. 1 sided stories are always that - 1 sided!

To be honest, I haven't got a clue! Once was quoted about £10 - but that was years ago, and don't know the basis of this calculation - or even if it was a figure some one plucked out of the air.
Sorry, I'm 'old school' - Nationwide is still in my eyes (along with all the rest of them) a Building Society, playing at Banking! IN the old days, for example, Leeds Building Society would pay all the cheques into Lloyds, so had to add 2 or more days onto the Banks clearing cycle. Now this may not be the case now.
Generally, cheques are cleared in the following times:
Day 1 (mon) - Paid into Branch - and sent to Head Office
Day 2 - Goes through clearing system - and exchanged between banks
Day 3 - Received by paying Branch
Day 4 - Technically, the paying branch can still return this item - and should therefore be classes as uncleared.
Day 5 (Fri) - Item would have cleared overnight (thur/fri) - but could still be received as unpaid.
CLEARED FUNDS are not a guarantee of the fact the cheque is going to be paid.
The authorisation will reduce the balance - as the Bank has agreed to pay this. However, they have not received the actual debit, so cannot debit it from your account. CHances are (again this is going back a few years, but should still be in case, and I can't comment for other banks) the 'earmarked funds' (i.e. what was said to be coming out of your account) will be removed a few days later automatically, in roughly the time the debit appears.
I'm not arguing (honest) just explaining the system. 3 to 5 days is correct (I believe 3 should be the norm). If it does take 10 days, from UK to UK, there is a problem. Lloyds will not delay processing to your account. There is not justification for that, and no benefit to the Bank (any additional interest is going to be insignificant when it comes against the potential loss of an account - and 10 day transfers would result in a loss of accounts). Go back to the sending bank - and check account details etc. Providing they are a UK bank, there should be no need for more than 5 working days. I am presuming it is going into a Bank, as opposed to a credit card/building society account.The sending bank should do a 'trace' through the system (i.e. where was the money from leaving us- and on what day did it get to the next 'step' in the transaction). If there is a delay, this will show up where, and the necessary action taken to correct it. 10 days is unacceptable.
Again, can't quote on individual cases, but.... a loan set up correctly (always a possability it was not set up right...) should only take 1 payment per month. Again, that is what you signed for under the consumer credit act agreement - £x for £y months on z date. Providing payments are not missed, this is the automatically set up. There may be (again - branch experience is now - especially for loans - out of date) a time when someone delays a payment (i.e. can it be paid on the 20th as opposed to the 10th), that if someone changed it between those dates, the computer will pick up the 20th, so a payment could be made on 10th & 20th - but this is just bad timing, and may not be the case.
If ANY MISTAKE the bank makes which results in bank charges (or any other charges for that matter) they should (and I believe are) always refunded. Where they may be an argument is where the fault lies. That is down to 2 people having a conversation, understanding each others point of view, and agreeing if the bank was at fault. If you do not agree with the decision the banks make, you can always follow the grievance procedures, which ultimately lead all the way to the Banking Ombudsman (whos decision is final on the bank, but not on the ciustomer).
You tell me then the poor don't pay for the better off!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well clearly in future when paying into my account I am going to have to allow 3 weeks to make sure I avoid charges, paid in from UK bank 23rd may, appeared 7 june midnight, other UK bank did do a trace said it was marked as transaction complete 1 june, lloyds tsb couldnt tell me where it was when I asked 5 june but suggesting other bank still had it. They refused to run trace etc. As other bank was more cooperative I am more inclined to take their word for it given that and lloyds tsb are taking 6+ working days to clear cheques on a regular basis.

Back on the original subject of bank charges, it is clear they illegal this appears to be the case as they have not won a single court case on this. So why are they been penny pinching settling right before court day and wasting (a) public fees on court costs (b) customers money on solictor fees when they could settle before that stage.

Also why are they and other banks still keeping their charges in place, I think if it stays like this now its so open in the public domain eventually either the government or the regulator is going to say hey you charge X amount or you fined XXXXXXX amount. Banks wont be able to suddenly start booting all poor people out because again the government needs them to have bank accounts and if it doesnt already exist a law will be created to protect them. It seems they are just delaying the inevitable now and I think the future of banking will change. Personally if we get charged say 2% of transactions for using an ATM I wouldnt mind (wouldnt surprised me if they did fix fee again to benefit rich), add a annual banking fee say £10 for every single customer including the rich ones and they have replaced their 3bill loss of turnover.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

if they tried that on I'd tell them to get stuffed and continue monthly payments, unless in the loan terms it says it requires a current account with the bank like some mortgages used to.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

What was Lloyds defence because I am just about to throw a case thier way !

Thanks

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Point of order, but I don't agree - cheques will clear in whatever timeframe the bank has set up. 4 days is more likely to be the average clearing time, if you use the example of my account with the Co-op (3 days) compared to Mrs Nugs with Abbey (which, at one point was taking 8!).

EDIT: And yes, I am aware that the average of 8 & 3 is 5.5, it's just an example of the differing timeframes :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Just a minor point... the banks involved have not won a single court case but neither have they lost a single court case. They've all been settled out of court with the banks repaying the fees (which is more cost efficient for them to do, as the individual amounts are relatively small, albeit numerous), and of course no admission of guilt has ever been announced by any of the banks concerned.

Of course the banks are going to drag their feet before coughing-up... that's to be expected really.

The OFT finding wasn't that charges per-se are unlawful, but they did find that the charges were excessive. The OFT's suggested limit is £12, they have never said that all charges are illegal or should be discontinued. Their press release can be read here

I much prefer the current system, to be honest. I don't see why I and many, many others should be penalised because, unlike some people, we can manage a bank account properly. However, if things continue, then I can see blanket charges being introduced. I don't agree that it's a case of the poor subsidising the rich, as I know many not-rich people that benefit from free banking.

---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------

Another thing... regarding ATM charges, would you expect the nominal charge to be paid to the owner of the machine you're using, or should it be paid to your bank even if you're not using your issuing bank's ATM.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

the issue I have with it is it's too much like a 'fines' system where they dont just hit you once but again and again as each direct debit bounces often leaving someone on a low income with charges in the £100s for being overdrawn by a small amount. this has never happened to me but I have seen the stress it has caused.

the interest rate on being over drawn should be increased in order for these charges to be dropped but the banks would never do that as it would expose the real APR inflicted on these people.

alternatively there should be a monthly charge when you go overdrawn unauthorised but it isn't then compounded with charges left right and centre for transactions.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Gareth, with all due respect, I've explained why this excuse is "rubbish" before and I'll do it again. I, personally, over the past sixteen or so months, have been involved in several dozen cases where almost £90,000 has been refunded in penalty charges.

Please explain your "cost efficency" theory. If the banks wanted to put a stop to losing these cases all they have to do is disprove one - just one - case and they're home free. Are you telling me that the bean counters at the banks think it's better to sit back and let many thousands of people successfully claim possibly millions in unfair charges rather than engage a solicitor (at best a barrister) at a cost of say £10,000 to destroy the entire claims process?


The OFT press release states "Only a court can finally decide whether a charge is unfair or not. The OFT has today set out a statement of its view of the law. This has not generally been accepted by most of the eight credit card issuers".

The "law" to which the OFT refers is the very same law which states that penalty charges are illegal. This has been proven in court on several occasions. We were extremely disappointed that after months of legal discussions the OFT sought to offer their "view" of the law rather than to actually use the law to clamp down on this abusive practice and empower consumers with the knowledge that their entitlement to refunds of penalty charges are a legal right.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Mr Angry

Any comment ?

Mike