Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Hi

I was flagged by Sky that the new 'Sky by Broadband' service was available at NO COST

tried to register . . . not allowed

emailed support saying I paid the same amount as a direct Sky customer but to no avail . . . . . not allowed . . . .

got the following email from SKy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for your email.

I can advise that to receive the Sky By Broadband service you must be subscribing to Sky directly, and on a premium package. Payment to NTL does not count as Sky is a Digital Satellite provider and NTL is a Cable provider and as such their services are not coming from Sky.

I trust this information assists.



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why not ? I pay for the wall to wall service to NTL - why can't NTL secure proper rights for their customers ? ? ?

This also applies to the interactive content on Sky Cricket coverage - which looks GREAT on the brother's Sky Service - I pay for all the channels yet only get the basic service - yet cabled was billed as being the greatest transmission medium ever because of the ability to have interactive content on each channel

here we are years on and . . . . nothing or hardly nothing . . . :(

RJ

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Why did you think you were going to be able to take advantage of a Sky service when you are paying NTL for your TV/ BB? Sky and NTL are seperate companies that are fighting for the same market, each company will do things to keep customers and will try to being out services that the other cannot offer.
NTLs' lack of interactive content in comparrison to Sky is mostly down to its' financial situation and the head start Sky had over them.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

I really think your gripe should be with ntl and not Sky. The Sky service is an added value product for customers of Sky, just like the interactive stuff, SkyTalk, Sky+, Sky Magazine, etc etc etc.

ntl buy bulk content from Sky and other channel providers, but nothing else. If you really wanted SBB you'll have to ditch ntl and subscribe to Sky.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Kind of like going into burger king and asking for a big mac ;)

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

you really don't want it anyway. It's a P2P application that still runs in the background when you aren't using it anymore, using up your bandwidth. It is also a bugger to get off your PC when it's on.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

He's paying just as much for the Sky packages as regular dth satellite users, surely there's no reason why he shouldn't reap the extra benefit of paying for those premium services. If the broadband package is being offered as an incentive to take those extra packages then he should be entitled to it too, no matter how he recieves them. Sky, one way or another get the extra money he's paying.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Thats like saying my Vauxhall warranty must be honeoured by Ford cos they both make cars.

The money he pays NTL goes to NTL and Not SKY.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

No, it's like saying he bought a Ford car from a Vauxhall dealership and didn't get the electric windows Ford were offering as an incentive to buy the car.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Actually im with Horace on this one, why shoudlnt he get access, he has paid for Sky Movies so he should get all the features that Sky have to offer IMO.

Just because NTL provide Sky shouldnt matter, its the fact that Sky gets his Subscription money for the channel that should matter.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

IF YOU DO NOT PAY ANY MONEY TO SKY, FULL STOP. YOU DONT GET THE SERVICE.
you havent payed for the transmittion to your dish because you dont have a dish. you havent payed for your sky decoder. you havent payed for the sky viewing card because you dont pay SKY. you havent had a disscount for keeping the box connected to the Phone line. Same will apply to the HD service

just like i dont have NTL On demand service or frontrow or any Telewest TV service as i dont pay for any TV or phone. Also dont have computer viruses as i did not pay for windows XP computer.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Of course there is a simple answer...

Cancel NTL's abysmal TV service and get Sky!

I use NTL for broadband without a gripe (well, apart from the damn proxy issues in Luton) but I would never in a million years use their woeful TV service. Ok so I most likely end up paying a little more by doing it this way but at least I get all the benefits of getting Sky direct from Sky (for example a TV service that works with all the interactive extras). If you're not prepared to pay the little extra to buy your TV service from Sky then you can't really complain becuase you're not getting the value added features that Sky offer 'their' customers.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

I agree with all you say

I pay the full amount to NTL yet I only get *part* of the product - itz all very well to say go to SKY direct 4 TV but where I am now I have a flat with the usual legal restrictions about no dishes . . . which is rigidly enforced :(

probably a million people in UK live under a similar lease restriction so I feel I am fully entitled to the full service - Cable was supposed to have interative content with many channels

I cant have a dish - pay the full amount - yet get an inferior service

RJ

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

But surely NTL cream off some of his subscription, so Sky don't see as much of it as if he was a 'proper' Sky subsciber.

IMO, if anyone's to blame, then it's NTL not Sky. They should renegotiate their contract with Sky if it's such a big deal for their customers.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

sky by broadband is a delivery platform just like the sky dish and your ntl box. sky subscribers pay for the sky delivery platform. ntl subscribers pay for the ntl delivery platform. dont expect your payments to ntl to also give you one of the delivery platforms that sky provide.

if you cant get sky but can get ntl because of your house/flat lease and/or feel you get inferior options because of your lease then that is unfortunate but your solicitor would have made you aware of your lease restrictions before buying the house/flat.

---------- Post added at 10:57 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

that's correct, part of the money you pay to NTL is to pay for the delivery method/platform.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

What the hell are you people talking about???

My god it's like me being with virgin mobile and complaining about T-mobile customers getting something that I don't get!

Just because virgin mobile uses the T-mobile network in order to provide a service does not mean I am entitled to anything T-mobile provide!

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

er . . . no its not the same at all . . .

NTL advertise/promote that they provide Sky Sports 1,2,3 Xtra etc *NOWHERE* do they say that they only provide a restricted and limited service

I would put the blame as follows :-

1. NTL for not properly negotiating with Sky to carry the whole Sky Sports Service NOT the 3/4 Service available

2. Sky Sports for not negotiating with NTL properly to make them carry the Whole Sky Sports Service NOT the limited variety which stikes at the root of Sky Sports quality control and business integrity

3. OffCom for allowing SKY and NTL to pass off a limited service as the Real Thing thus in effect perpetuauting a malpractice on long suffering NTL customers

4. The Advertising Standards Authority for not insisting that Advertising Material carry a Public Warning that only a limited service is available

5. NTL shareholders for not forcing the company to negotiate this correctly

etc etc

RJ

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

LoL you've thought about this far too much, anyway, SBBB is a **** piece of P2P software that infects your PC and refuses to let go, I'd be glad you can't get it if I were you.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

yes

but its not *just* the P2P broadband which I'm complaining about

its *also* the other restricted services - no Sky Active no stump mikes on Cricket no stats no extra camera views etc etc etc

NOWHERE do NTL say that they only supply a cut-down service

*all* of this could be easyily provided

we are being conned :( :( :(

RJ

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

OK. Find us somewhere where it says you WILL receive anything other than the standard programming when you subscribe to these channels on NTL? "Conned" suggests that NTL are saying you will receive all of these features. But they do not.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Conned? - How?

If NTL were to provide all the service to which you refer, then you'd probably be paying more for your TV service from them.

Sky aren't really going to want to provide NTL with all the extra data feeds and extras are they? after all if they did that they would lose one of the incentives for people to choose Sky over cable TV.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Before you start accusing people of conning you, it's best to be sure who is. How do you KNOW it is NTL stopping you getting these services? Sky is a part owner of Freeview, and freeview owners don't get these services either.

It's true that NTL don't say they supply a cut down service. Similarly, they don't say they provide these extras either. They provide exactly what they say (a TV service).

Sky By Broadband has (AFAIK) always been marketed as a service for Sky subscribers, and ONLY sky subscribers. Sky are using it as a marketing tool to fend off VOD (which Satellite cannot do). They want people to have to subscribe to their platform, as well as their services, so why would they offer SBB to cable subscribers?

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

My point exactly!! :D

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

(EDIT hit the wrong quote button) NTL dont need to say it, because SKY allready do ONLY AVALIBLE TO RESIDENTAL SKY SUBSCRIBERS has allways been in the small print for SKY BY BROADBAND. if you actuly watched the adds . same with PRESS THE GREEN button option that are now avalible to sky users. If sky allow cable access its Followed by "CABLE customers contact your local cable provider to see IF this service is avalible in your area ."

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

eh?? They dont claim to provide it, so what is different from what you've just said?

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

NTL do provide sky sports they just dont carry the possible extras that SKY customers may have.

If your so bothered about sky by broadband ask sky about paying them a subscription cahrge to it.

I have sky plus, I have NTL broadband and phone. Sky offers a lot more than I use, similarly I cant get the option of discount with NTL for having all three services, yet I dont kick up a huge stink, perhaps by your reconning I should hold Sky responmsible for NTL not offering me a triple service discount.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

I didn't realise there were so many NTL and Sky supporters of the status quo here :)

OK how about NTL not charging so much for Sky Sports progaming if we don't get the whole deal

say a 15% discount which they could pass on to Sky as a discount off the amount they pay to Sky - maybe OffCom could enforce this as we are getting a restricted service *without* being told or pre or post warned

RJ

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

When you subscribe directly to SKy you are paying for all the extras in the cost of your monthly base pack, if you take a Sky channel via NTL then Sky arre only getting the money for the extra channels you have not a share in the base pack subsciption you pay to NTL.

I realise is may be frustrating for you with no sky dish policy where you live, but at the end of the day Sky and NTL are private companies that have built their own networks that they can then do with what they wish, and offer the services they wish.

OFCOM won't be interested because there isn't any contravention of regulation happing. The ASA wo'nt be bothered either because as stated already NTL offer Sky channels via a STB, their service does what is says on the tin, any bells and whistles Sky offer are an reward/incentive for having their delevery platform deliver their channels.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

John Lewis offer free warranties on all their TVs but if I by the same make/model at Currys I have to pay for the warranty. Using the logic here I should complain to trading standards about Currys!

My local Tesco stocks more variaties of Coke then the local Sainsburys perhaps I should also complain that Sainsburys offer a restricted Coke service!

---------- Post added at 09:43 ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 ----------

and then if I go to an Orange shop and sign up for an orange mobile phone contract I will find that if I'd bought the same phone on-line from Orange, the offer special on-line deals which are better than in the store. should I also complain about that?

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Let's not forget that Sky by broadband is a product of sky themselves and not part of any TV channel or tv package!

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

I doubt Sky would do this, as it would not be in their best interest to give a large discount on their services to a major competitor.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Have to say that i have Sky+, having swapped from NTL for TV about 2 years ago.

NTL are way behind with their interactive stuff - I remember in the days of Nynex & Cable&Wireless (memories.....) that they were to have the interactive sport like sky within a few months (months to years.....).

However, you can't really blame Sky as such - it is down to NTL to negotiate the deal with Sky during contract renewals. Sky have a service, which NTL are not willing to pay the price asked (not getting into the argument of who's fault).

Additionally, Sky & NTL are competitors - they need somethings to differentiate themselves from the competition - and 'add-ons' are as good a way as any.

However, with regard to Sky Broadband - as said before - it aint worth the money - even though its free. Had it, didn't like it, got rid of it, and then spent the next month trying to get rid of KService. My recommendation, even if you are a sky customer - leave it alone!

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Not wanting to rub salt into the womb but as a Sky subscriber with NTL broadband I've just signed up to Sky by broadband and can confirm it's cool :)

Yet another reason not to use NTL's abysmal TV service!

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

I have sky digital and NTL broadband and I have used sky by broadband and it's a load of rubish!

Takes ages to download anything even with a 10MB connection, plust it drains your bandwidth even when your not using it!

The movies available for download ain't that hot either!

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Sky by Broadband seems (to me) to be a pale but expensive (well, it would be for me assuming I had Sky as I have no interest in the movie channels, and little in the sports channels) immitation of a video on demand service.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

maybe ive got the wrong end of the plug -

- I thought if I could get Sky by Broadband on my laptop I cd take it to work and see the test cricket

bt someone's told me it only works on the home phone line anyway ? ? ?

RJ

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Sky By Broadband is a crap version of vod.

It does not allow the watching of programs in real time.

It only allows films or sport to be downloaded from a list that is on the sky by broadband portal.

You can only use it on the PC that it is registered to and that pc only."heavy DRM"

It always runs uploading to other users when you have finished your download "p2p"

When you decided to remove the worthless junk you then have a hard time to remove it as it acts like a spy ware ridden p2p client.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

No - I download films onto my laptop and take them to work all the time - but as Bill says you havet to install it on the machine you're going to take with you.

You can watch whatever you've downloaded for so long without an internet connection.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

yeah i had it a while ago, is cool. but when you change ip address it wont like you. i had it at my old house, now i cant :( says im having it in 2 places. cant be bothered phoning them up. ahh well

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

What you get is everything that you pay ntl for.

ntl as a company don't offer anything over & above Sky Movies on your STB.

If you want a product that is offered by another company-I.E Sky Movies by broadband, then you get it from a company that offers it-I.E. Sky.

What you feel isn;t relevant here, the fact is that you are getting a product from ntl & not Sky.

Again, take that up with ntl.

That's ntl's doing, not Sky's.

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

well I am taking it all up with NTL >>> by writing it all here ! !

*they* read all this no doubt and a summary gets to someone *important* at *NTL* each morning - so much better targeted to do it this way rather than get fobbed off by customer services

also *they* get to see the strength of feeling amongst users and this no doubt goes in their daily report

ps : thats what happened with Sky Sports Extra and how we were able to get it !

RJ

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Ok, I know this is now going a little off topic but I think it's important for anyone considering Sky by broadband to read the following...

Sky really have been naughty. They install a P2P service called KService. You can only turn this off from the service admin screen or from CLI using "net stop KService" but it has a nasty habit of restarting when you reboot, even with the service set to manual (set it to disabled and the Sky client refuses to start). This is because there is also a start-up hook in the registry set to run a program called KHost that restarts the service. Runing MSConfig and removing the KHost hook is no good because when you run the Sky client it re-enters the hook in the registry, restarting KHost and KService! Also, you can't rely on the XP firewall to protect you because KService adds itself as an exception. As for removing it, it's not as simple as just running an uninstall but rather you need to download and run a tool called KClean (http://www.sky.com/skybybroadband/articles/article04). Is it me or does this smack of malware?

None of this is made clear in Sky's T&C's, in fact this is the sole mention made to P2P...

"Uploading Content - If you download and save content to your computer system (a "File"), during the license period for the relevant File, we may upload parcels of content from the File from your computer system for the purpose of transferring Files to other users of the Service."

The FAQa don't say much either... http://www.sky.com/skybybroadband/faqs

Given that Sky install a P2P client/server that runs all the time and uses bandwidth (and potentially costs you money and maybe gets you into hot water with your ISP) that you can't remove without downloading another tool I really don't think this is good enough. Sky deserve to be rapped serverely over the knuckles for this!

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

I quite liked the look of the SKY extras, so strangely enough, I joined SKY 2 days ago, I have to agree that you can't expect SKY to provide all services to ntl customers, they are a business after all.

After 5 years on ntl the SKY package is a real breath of fresh air in comparison.

Now to see if ntl will upgrade my archaic ntl home 100 modem so I can use my allegedly 10mb connection. Hopefully ntl will try some customer service skills this time to keep a previously loyal customer for some of their services at least, or pigs may fly :)

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

They've been reading this forum for years-hell they even owned us at one stage.

Ok-well I hope you enjoy your Sky by Broadband via ntl in 2009 then. ;)

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

As I recall, Sky haven't been open at all about how this system works. The fact they haven't readily admitted to installing a service like this makes me wonder just how much else SBB transmits without the user realising.

You may be able to block the service with another firewall, but how many users are going to know how to do that? Also, does the client work with the service blocked? Probably not would be my guess.

I personally don't object to this method of delivery, but I do object to a company releasing a product like this not being open about how it works.

Anyone else think that if NTL had done something like this, certain people (who seem to be very pro SBB) would be complaining like mad?

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

I completely agree.

Sky have been well naughty with this. Fortunately I'm in a position to have the technical know-how to diagnose what Sky have done to my PC but as you say a lot of people are not in the same position. I think there are two issues here...

1) Sky do not make it clear what their software actually does (from the point of view of installing P2P with almost malware like behaviour that absolutely will not stop [excuse the T1 quote]) and the implications of installing it.

2) They have made it very hard for most people to remove once it's installed

As a disgruntled Sky customer I am already in the process of taking this further with both them and a rather well known consumer watchdog publication.

Ok, that's it I propose we bring this thread to a conclusion before it is in danger of going really off-topic :(o)

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

huh - don't want the rotten Sky by Broadband any more !

RJ

Re: Sky by Broadband - not allowed ? ? ?
 

Muhahaha. Good for you :-)