Politics and personal beliefs
 

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/pol...icle363108.ece

The burning question is "Can she be minister for equality if she thinks homosexuality is a Sin"?

There was some debate on this yesterday on local radio....Personally I think she can. She may not condone it but as long a she works to provide an equal opportunity for everyone it shouldn't be a problem. Just because she may not agree with something does not mean she will necessarily persecute or actively discriminate against something....and of course she could always discriminate without vocalising her believes anywayââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¦.

You could also argue that if she was not allowed to do this job then she would not have been given an equal opportunity either.

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I think that it is kind of a stupid idea to give her the job but I do not think it will interfere with her job. She could quite easily put her personal beliefs aside and do her job effectivly

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I'm not so sure about that - her beliefs didn't really impact on her remit as Education Secretary, but she wa pretty lousy at that anyway ;)

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I think a more prudent question would be "Does she think homosexuality is a sin?" - being Catholic doesn't mean she automatically would.

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She deliberately avoided answering that when asked directly on Radio 4 I believe. This has lead to the speculation above.

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Perhaps she avoided it because she didn't want a religious-based debate?

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or she has something to hide?

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There IS that possibility but I prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.

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I agree, it's possible to put aside personal beliefs and do a job well - The Blairs, for example, are religious too - but their government repealed Section 28, which forbid the 'promotion' (i.e. discussion) of homosexuality in schools.

If it transpires her beliefs are infering with her performing the role of equality minister, then and only then should she go. But I assume she's given a vow privately that it won't, and that she wouldn't have taken on te role if she thought they'd be any conflict, and so until we see evidence of the contrary, I think we should take her on her word.

To do otherwise would be to practice discrimination (against her) on the grounds of her religion.

That all said, I think Blair could have made a better choice...

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Her membership of Opus Dei would increase the likelihood that she does think its a sin.
Hell, putting her in charge of something like this is like putting Russ in charge of the dept of fossils at some university...(no offence Russ)

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I think a lot of people are mature enough to understand that they can not let their personal beliefs interfere with their job. Especially someone such as her who is in the public eye and will be watched like a hawk over any policys she may have regarding homosexuals.

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If I might answer on Russ' behalf ... we don't believe fossils are wrong, we just believe the generally accepted chronology that surrounds them is wrong. It would be more akin to putting Russ (or me) in charge of using the fossils to compile an exhibition about evolution.

Nevertheless, I hope that either of us would be able to do that. After all, while it may be the general consensus, it is still only a theory. I would be happy to curate such a display and to ensure it is described accurately (and by that I don't mean I would insist on mentioning the alternative as well, just that I would not present as fact what is merely theory).

I think this illustrates Ruth Kelly's position nicely. You simply cannot go around vetting people on all their personal opinions before giving them jobs. Otherwise where would it end? There are committed members of various religions in the Commons. Should they be barred as MPs, for fear they might be unable to represent constituents of a different religion?

And if Kelly does consider homosexuality to be a sin - and let's face it, she probably does, as Opus Dei is a fundamentalist expression of Christianity - that does not mean she is incapable of distinguishing between what she thinks of what someone does, and whether she thinks they have the right to do it.

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It's ironic, that some people on here are saying that you shouldn't confuse her own opinions and beliefs with her ability in politics... yet the same people kept ripping into Nick Griffin's beliefs and opinions, using them as a reason for him being dangerous as a politician!

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Quite a strange position for a member of Opus Dei to be placed in, a minister of equality! I think her position should certainly be reconsidered. I believe firmly that religion and politics should be separated, and this is Opus Dei here - it means 'work of God', it's a hardline organisation where the members are meant to carry out the work of God in their working lives. Members infiltrated the Spanish Franco government and look what happened - women had no rights, homosexuality was illegal. Of course I'm not saying that anything like this will happen here but I certainly don't think that it's an appropriate position for a member of this organisation.

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Point taken but we are talking about sin here. She presumably believes that homosexuals are going to hell for acting against Gods wishes. That has to translate into a less than tolerant attitude on her part.....

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I knew this was coming, but I don't see any contradiction here.

The BNP are 'institutionally racist'. There is evidence of criminality throughout the organisation, and they promote racism. Their ideology is fascism. This is not merely Nick Griffin's 'opinion' - it's the opinion of a majority of that party, they activate stir racist hostilities, the party is dedicated to it.

Labour is not, and there is not a shred of evidence she has ever condemned, injured, or sought to harm the interests of anyone who is gay.

If she was condoning violence, or promoted racism, she would be unsuitable for high office.

I have every confidence she would not have been given this post if there was any issue of her acting in a discriminatory way against gays. If her views ever interfere with her office or the performance of her duties, then she would hae to resign.

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I don't see why she would condemn homosexuality seeing as the bible doesn't say it's a sin.

I can't see where her beliefs could be a problem for her position.

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Not if she takes the whole Bible seriously ... it also says that God says 'vengeance is mine, I will repay' ... I.E. it is not Ruth Kelly's job to persecute someone for living a lifestyle God forbids.

Incidentally, the Press likes to concentrate on homosexuality because it makes good headlines. In all probability RK would personally disapprove of unmarried heterosexual sex as well. There are lots of things that are considered normal in modern life that form no part of a Biblical lifestyle. Let's not forget it's the media, not Kelly, that is making an issue of this right now.

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Sorry, On the face of it it seems like what your are saying but there is a difference. As iSteve says there is a difference. First of all she is religious and has not said homosexuality is a sin. Also she knows not to say this because she is in high office.

Nick Griffin has repeatly said in BNP speechs and publications that the jews made up the holocaust. That Islam is a wicked faith that has spread itself though rape.

There is a difference in the seriousness of the comments. The fact that one has said them and the other is presumed to feel that way. And the medium in which such comments have been issued. I.E She hasnt expressed any of her personal views in labour newsletters or speechs.

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It all depends on what her own personal beliefs are.
There are many christians who don't think homosexuality is a sin, there are many who believe it is.
Similarly with premarital sex, or non-reproductive copulation.
The bible may say that it is down to god to dish out punishment, but that didn't stop the inquesition, who were extremely devout (for their own definition of christianity).

This goverment has a history of poor minister selection.
Wasn't one of the previous children's ministers found to have been incompetent while running a childrens' home or something?

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OK let me have a go at this.

I'm a supply teacher, you all know this.I'm an athiest as well.

So when I teach an Religious Studies lesson is it possible for me to do so?Even though I do not believe in God?

Of course it is.I can put my athiesm to one side and teach the subject very well indeed.I need never even tell the students I'm an athiest though if they ask I will be truthful about it.I pride myself on being a teacher and that I can try and teach anything provided I have the knowledge base to do so.

So can Kelly be fair towards homosexuals whilst having severe doubts about their predilections? I think so.:tu:

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Ha ha!!! I thought you were talking sense up to that point! This is Tony's bunch we're talking about here...? ;)