should i take the job?
 

hi all

i am due to start work for NTL on the 22nd may as a trainee installation engineer.i am not sure if i should take the job because it is pieace work and the thought of shelling out several hundred quid for tools is a bit off- putting
what i want to know is what is the average weekly pay after training? and if there is anyone out there working as a installation engineer your comments and advice wil be much appriciated.

chris

Re: should i take the job?
 

Hi csk8893 which contractor would you be working for.

Re: should i take the job?
 

Are you sure it's for ntl and not one of the agencies they use ?

Re: should i take the job?
 

its cobra installations

Re: should i take the job?
 

Never work for piece work unless you were there when Time and Motion evaluated the job. The trick behind piecework is to get put onto an average wage as quickly as possible.

This is how we did it at Royal Doulton - the ex pottery factory at Stoke - on Trent.
We'd start off by testing the clay and then sending half the pallet back as we deemed it unworkable (the tools for the job and all that) This would screw up the figures straight away. When the decent clay came back to us we would take our time making each and every plate. If we dropped any piece of clay or plate, we'd stop all the machines and take the long walk to get the squeegee (brushes are a bad idea in a pottery factory with silica dust everywhere) and pan. We'd spend time cleaning up and then take the squeegee and pan back (we always made sure there was only one squeegee and pan for the whole of the shop ;) ). By the time the end of the shift came we hadn't made many pieces and Time and Motion set quite a high price for each plate (thinking we were so slow we'd never make any good money and it would average out at about union basic pay). However, when it came to working the piecework rate, we'd crank up the machines to full speed, never send any clay back and leave all the mess until the end of the shift (the squeegees for each machine would also make a miraculous return) We were making so much money on the system that they had to abandon piecework and give us all an average wage. This worked out at about £350 a week (this was 11 years ago - so a fantastic wage for the job) and a hell of a lot more on shifts. Now we could relax and do as much as we needed to do just to get to the end of the day.

So, no. Don't take the job. Especially if you have to fork out for your own equipment too - what the heck is that about?
And join a union - NTL are notorious for messing you about.

Re: should i take the job?
 

they said that they used to provide tools but they dont anymore because of engineers damaging and breaking them.thanks for your post

Re: should i take the job?
 

oh no cobra alan grants muppits no no don't do it

Re: should i take the job?
 

whys that?

Re: should i take the job?
 

Oh dear, so thats where he went.:disturbd:

Re: should i take the job?
 

this sounds unfair, to me, I'm presuming that a trainee will have a 'probation' period, during which, in my opinion, it is unreasonable to expect you to supply your own tools.

- in the meantime, ask about second hand tools & what you need for the absolute basics.

I don't think anyone should turn down the chance of a job on the basis of a pre-requisite that might cost money, a fork lift licence, a pet-reg certificate, a safety passport - but if the job is described as 'trainee', then in my opinion, the employer should pay for that training - and the tool kit would be built up during the training.

This sounds like a way of paying minimum wage, getting you to pay for your own tools, while retaining the 'right' to terminate your employment with a minimal period of notice.

- but, if you want the experience, then go for it, you only get experience by doing the job...

Re: should i take the job?
 

Long story regarding the dreaded Alan Grant
Which area are you going to be working in?
The good installers earn fair money, so I'm told

Re: should i take the job?
 

My Friend worked for cobra a few times, he earned good money. but the company treated him apalingly.. They drop and hire at the drop of a hat.. but if you need to get trained then it might be a good way of getting the relevant training.

Re: should i take the job?
 

I think COBRA are missing the plot here, shouldn't they also be charging a fee for training as well :dozey:

Re: should i take the job?
 

there is a 2month training period and probation.the tools are supplied during traing but after 2 months i will be charged around £700 for tools if i buy them from cobra or i can get them myself from were ever i want.my main concern is the pieace work.

Re: should i take the job?
 

and piece work sucks unless you can "influence" the prices.

Re: should i take the job?
 

2 months???? christ, it used to be 2 weeks,if you where lucky :)

which area/Franchise are you going to be in??

Screwfix are probably cheaper than Cobra!

Re: should i take the job?
 

its for the blackburn branch and surrounding area and its working for cobra.thanks ill try screwfix.

Re: should i take the job?
 

i had the same question to answer last year a friend got on two weeks before me and told me not to do it so i would say no. The problem being no matter how long your doing the job you get paid the same.

Re: should i take the job?
 

When I started with NTL as a Install/Repair Technician back in 88,the training was 3 month's (practical & on-the-job) & in total over the years,I'd say I've done around 6 months training in total.

Re: should i take the job?
 

Maybe you could ask them if you could go out with an Engineer for a day before you start? :handshake

Re: should i take the job?
 

Dont get involved in a job such as this which involves piecework. What will you do during quiet periods? get paid nothing?. Also piece work genrally equals rush rush,crap jobs. It seems to be that the modern trend is to hire people who cart toolbags on piecework rates now. Its yet another exploitation of tradespeople. If they cant afford to resource and pay the operation properly then the job isnt worth doing. Maybe they can get some Polish engineers to do it,it the same way that the country is supposed to be awash with Polish plumbers. Funny that we never hear about Polish lawyers,doctors,dentists,estate agents though isnt it? Oh no,the exploitation and job fear factor is only to be applied to the manual classes,not the so called professionals. Dont do it mate.

Re: should i take the job?
 

that could be an idea.i will speak to the blackburn branch tomorrow see what they can do for me.the job isnt my main cocern as i will enjoy it.the problem i have is the pieace work the money im on now is quite good so i dont want to start this job if im not taking home as much or more as i am now.

if there are any installation engineers out there reading this please post or pm me with your advice.

4 days untill i have to hand in my notice:confused:

---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:59 ----------

that is a question i asked them at my interview.they said that thay are busy 365 days.which i find a bit hard to beleive myself.

should we not be earning a basic then pieace work on top of that just incase they do hit a quiet period?

Re: should i take the job?
 

hi
i worked for cobra installations in whitefield installing for ntl i left at christmas thank god after training the the wages are a joke i was working 10 hours a day and was lucky to earn 40 quid a day the managment are muppets you are not intrested in any problems you may have i stuck it for 8 months by far the worst job i ever had. don't do it m8

Re: should i take the job?
 

hmmm i was intrested in this sort of work, live in accrington just next to blackburn but think i'll not bother now lol. Wanted a job at ntl or bt since i did telecoms at college what a waste of time...

Re: should i take the job?
 

Speaking to some of our installers (MAP Electrical), the wages can be bad, but if you get good then you can earn a reasonable amount, most of them round our way start at 7:30 ish and generally get done by 4pm though there's usually extra jobs that can be picked up from the lazier bodies.

A shortage of work isn't very likely especially as the sales teams are being increased in size.
As long as you do the job properly and don't cause any grief, try to bend rules etc. you generally get your work first thing in the morning and are then left to get on with it.
No two days are the same, and your always meeting new people.

Downsides,

The supervisors and managers can be unpleasant at times (in fact if I was being spoken to the way that I overheard the other day I'd have twatted the bugger and told him were to stick his job) as they tend to treat all the workforce the same and some of the lads need an awful lot of jumping on :(
Hard work to make a decent wage.
Out in all weathers.
Limited scope for sick & holiday pay.
Pay for your own tools but this is not really any different to most tradesmen, and isn't normally taken in one go but over a period of months.

TBH if your already on piece work then that side of it shouldn't bother you so the only real choice is going to be can you put up with the other downsides.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time as an installer, though admittedly it was a long time ago and in-house for one of the smaller companies that were snaffled up.

Re: should i take the job?
 

Did you take this offer up?

Re: should i take the job?
 

i have thought long and hard and decided not to take the job.i have a interview with sky next week simalar job but better pay,better perks and no tools to buy everything is supplied and its not piece work,£1 6,000+bonus.

thanks to everyone who posted there advice and comments much appreciated:)

Re: should i take the job?
 

Ah, well good luck with the Sky job there :) Looks a lot better than the on you've turned down.

Re: should i take the job?
 

good luck with they sky 1. have u had ur fone interview yet. i had my assesment for them last week and know waiting and the perks u get are VERY good.

if there is anything u wanna now about the assesment then just ask and i'll see what i can remember for you

iain

Re: should i take the job?
 

i recieved my letter thursday rang the recruitment line straight away to tell them i am interested they said someone will contact me for a telephone interview sometime today or tomorrow.can you tell me what to expect for the assesment.

Re: should i take the job?
 

ok this is what happens.

1)You go into a room where they will explain to you what is going to happen then you watch a dvd about sky. tell you what the perks are and what u would do as a installer

2)You then have a interview which the first 5 questions are about you and then u have 10 where u have to answer them useing examples of how u achived them.like

when was the last time u had a problem with a customer and how did u solve it.
how would u plan ur day as a installer.



if u pass u goto the next stage

3) the medical

*wee in cup
*blood pressure
*pulse
*height
*weight
*wave ur arms and lift ur feet up and then check ur pulse
*check ur lungs by blowing into a device
*ballance on 1 foot
*eye site

if u pass u goto the final assment

4)The ladder test. you first have to carry a 3peace ladder around some cons. You then have to climb a ladder with the safty gear on and do certian this up there. like put ur hand on either side of the ladder and then look left-right-left and some other things.

5)if u passed all the above u then fill some more forms in and then go home and thats it

Re: should i take the job?
 

Piecework - had us doing it a few weeks back. I was organising it. I told management no one would turn up and no one did. They set the quota at 45 for 1x time and 1/2 - connect to server and create/edit GPO. It takes two to three minutes to do the work... I managed 3x time and 1/2 in the five hours between 8 and 1 on a Saturday.

Main problem with C&IT, including networking, is that it's not seen as a profession - anyone can read a book and do it. You wouldn't get far in court if you'd read a book, or in an operating theatre. It's not good. The BCS are making little difference.