Next upgrades.
 

I know most of us have had our 10Mb upgrade's,when are the next lot of upgrade's coming, I think next time they upgrade they should try matching the upload speed with the download speed.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

That will never never happen as it would just make conjestion even worse than it is now with everybody trying too upload and download half the internet at the same time, out of interest, what would you want to upload at 10Mb/s ?????

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

The answer would be .....to keep a good ratio :D

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

Nothing wrong with my ratio's atm, just try leaving the pc switched on :rolleyes: :D

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

I have the very latest SHU mod,but i cant keep cheating the system can i....hehe

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

lets not forget that alot of ISP providers in other countries you can download and upload at the same speed upto 10mb/s are even more then that one day we will get same upload as download in the u.k once ISP providers are ready to upgrade their networks so that it can handle all the connections & prevent congestion. also you might end up paying more for a broadband service like that, once its available

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

wow i dream of having a good upload speed say like 100+ kbs i would pay for a little extra for that. i hate my korena friend bragging he has to keep his upload speed under 5000 kbs to not hogg all the upload speed on downlad sites.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

Symetric speed - It will never happen!!

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

It does happen, and will happen. At the moment it's offered on SDSL (Symetical Digital Subscriber Line) but only at a few selected BT exchanges. To see this on cable however, i doubt it would be any time soon.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

It's still a business product and not really an option for most home users, but if you are close enough to your exchange and can pay for it 2Mbit symettrical can be yours.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

With DOCSIS 3.0 offering SDSL speeds over cable shouldn't be a problem.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

If by SDSL you mean 2Mbit symettrical then DOCSIS 2 can do it already, however still with cable upstream will be an 'issue' preventing super duper symettry.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

Yep but I don't forsee ntl moving to DOCSIS 2.0 rather going to DOCSIS 3.0 and utilising the greater upstream bw that the bonded DOCSIS 2.0 upstreams give.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

My post was badly put, I should have said that even with 3 it'll still be an issue doing super high speed symettry.

Can I ask what you do for a living, do you work for ntl or Telewest or in an IT field?

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

Ha I'll take that as a compliment ;) but nope neither. In fact not even in the field, currently in the superbly skilled field of McDonalds.....just need to get university out of the way then the worlds my oyster.

I was just going by that if ntl hadn't already adopted DOCSIS 2.0 by now, they weren't going to at all. Maybe because nobody markets their product by how big their upstream is.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

Haha nah I knew you didn't work in cable, I was just curious, not many people on this site (I lurked a while ;) ) who are qualified to tell me how this stuff works and good to have someone who's happy to try keeping me honest and attentive.

As you have an interest in it perhaps you should consider it when you graduate. Just take as a warning that there's a hell of a lot more to it than you see here and it is painful to learn, I spent 3 years learning the stuff and I'm a newbie. Learning the specs is easy, learning where / what / why and how is nasty but rewarding.

You're right as well of course, ntl are skipping it and going straight to DOCSIS 3. I was merely pointing out that current tech *could* do it rather than the experimental and in development pre-DOCSIS 3 kit.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

Eyy, appreciate the words, probably will take a look in later :)

Its alright to not be right all the time James, jk ;)

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

Even a 1Mbit upload speed on the 10Mbit product would be good, 384Kbit is pathetic. Obviously with the current DOCSIS crap it's complicated and stuff, but remember Telewest made a press release earlier this year saying they were targeting "50 to 100Mbit." Obviously this is going to be on DOCSIS2 or 3 since the current specification can't handle that much.

Imagine 100Mbit down with 384Kbit up and a 5gig cap though, lol.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

Nope not really it is pathetic and is to save cash on upgrades. There are a few different upgrades that can be done, and by keeping the upload low Telewest were in a position to avoid or put off the most expensive one.

It costs a lot less to increase the download capacity than it does the upload ;)

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

If Telewest wants to remain in a strong position in the ISP derby then it needs to fork out the cash. I live that close to an exchange that I can get a 16meg line with 1 meg upload for £13 cheaper a month with 24/7 free calls (£47 Per Month) and thats compared to my Telewest 10meg with 24/7 free calls: £60 per month but down to £45 for 6 months (discounted :p)

I really hope Telewest does whats necessary.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

yep i'm hoping so 2, i wont be upgrading until they do offer better up speeds, need it for my gaming & "ratio" lol - cant leave my pc on 24/7, my electric bills will soar ffs :angel:

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

I just wish a house would come up so my mum could move out and I can get my 16meg line & 1meg uploads.

Don't slate me for downloading (t.v shows) but I was downloading some series of something the past few weeks and my speeds have very rarely shot past 200kb/s. I only download for a few hours a night, well I pay for my line lol. I like my bandwidth free for surfing and I play a lot of Call of Duty online and other games. I'm not a network hogger.

The thing is with my speeds being at 200kb/s. I know of Torrents you should never expect anything near your top speeds but 200kb/s constant for weeks is a little strange. At least when my friend from Birmingham phones me up telling me about a letter he had just received from his ISP (UK Online). My friend has a 20meg line and uses his Newsgroups quite often. I think he downloaded 16gb in a 12 or 14 hour peroiod one time and now his ports for p2p and newsgroups has been limited to 200kb/s. The letter stated that he has been limited to the said speed for torrents and Newsgroups. Lmao we had an arguement about ISP's. I said that I've been with Telewest for nearly 5 years now and at times I've downloaded like the entertainment of the world had been stolen and had NEVER received a letter to limit my speeds. In the end I was just telling him that my "Unlimited" contract seems to be more stable than his uk online's policy. He never took it well and we screamed facts to and forth for a while. Damn all I said was my "Unlimited" Means unlimited (so far) Even funnier he phones me back 20 minutes later and claims his brummie missus was at work and one of her colleagues had mentioned that he was with Telewest and downloads all the time (nearly 24/7) and received a similar letter. Funny coincidence 20 minutes after a debate (fancy name for an argument lol)

Do you think that might be in place with Telewest? Especially as a lot of people just download every movie, tv show and game like they are going to evaporate 2moro.

I definately haven't hogged anything at all. I've used the free blueyonder newsgroups twice. Yeah I was getting about 5gb an hour (1,260kb/s) but I only used it twice. I have downloaded a lot in the past but thats been before Telewest had 10meg lines. I download T'V series now and would like my bandwidth back. I hope this isn't true and Telewest have already put traffic shaping software in the network as this will be a final cutting to go to Bulldog.

Saying this also I've been getting the same speeds with my 8meg Bulldog line.

I'm going to setup newsgroups again (new install of OS) and give it a test.


So am I just listening to too much or is there a bit of truth in what I hear?

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

not really sure to be honest, I had been downloading some films/tv programmes like 24 and a cple of months ago i could no longer use the standard port number, all i did was change to a different one & it went back to normal - i usually get full speed depending on what site i'm using.
currently d/l Lost season 1 but only getting around 1meg speed from my 4 meg conn, i put it down to using a public torrent site for this d/l where people dont share as much.

:angel:

Re: Next upgrades.
 

lmao - I just got all of season 2 last night and have around 50% done of Lost. Still not seen it though - just from my m8's description of it makes it sound good

Re: Next upgrades.
 

I've maxed my connection out downloading through BitTorrent, me and a couple of friends got a large file (1gb) on all 3 of our dedicated servers, I hashed up a torrent of it and gave it to the other two so all 3 of us were seeding, and then downloaded it to my PC and the speeds were a constant 1220KB/sec.

Re: Next upgrades.
 

Cool that's a step closer to quashing the traffic shaping fear I'm having at the moment. :)

I really hope they don't do it but the only way I could see it working is if ADSL & Cable carry it out (all ISP's). Really where will you turn? And with no choice in the matter.

But in the end it's us who's paying for it. ISP's should be the one monitoring and reducing/warning very heavy users. Because of the leechers the average user is going to suffer maybe. This will not do!. If I have a 10meg line what would it be good for? A few patches for games and driver files.

I mostly use my line for my gaming but on the odd occasion I do download some various stuff through Torrents and to be limited to 200kb/s out of 1,260Kb/s is ridiculous. Especially as I don't hammer the network.

I hope I find a fast torrent for testing myself as were in different areas janipewter.

Re: Next upgrade's.
 

To be on 20Mbit he must be on UKOnline LLU - UKOnline don't traffic shape or monitor their LLU network in this manner.



Possible, Telewest have sent some letters to some customers 'informing' them about upload usage.

Having spoken to a Telewest employee within the last month or so he informs that he isn't aware of any traffic shaping either running or being prepared on the Telewest network.

You're both listening to too much and not listening enough, if you get my meaning.

Re: Next upgrades.
 

I had already mentioned he was on UK online.

Did you not read my post??? He DID receive a letter about heavy usage and that his ports have been reduced to 200kb/s for newsgroups and torrents. His workaround for it is changing ports all the time.

He is one of my best friends and he isn't going to lie to me (lol why would he). He's only been in Birmingham coming up two years after leaving bonny Scotland for Brummieland (& a bird). So please don't try to tell me UK online are not traffic shaping or monitoring their networks.

I've spoken to loads of TW employee's and they have all got different information. Some one's will tell you to the nearest month of upgrade's/changes and others have no knowledge at all. I wouldn't rule out traffic shaping yet. At the end of the day Telewest would rather reduce these heavy users than having old and new customers who don't hammer the network getting poor gaming/surfing sessions. It's bad rep for the company. Imagine if you joined from ADSL 8meg and were receiving a lesser service from 2meg more. I think Telewest wants to keep and attract new customers and this hammering of the networks is appearing to be a growing problem.

Re: Next upgrades.
 

There is no traffic shaping or usage monitoring on the UKOnline LLU network at this time. Fact. If there were traffic shaping it would not be evadeable by changing ports as the traffic being shaped on the non-LLU services is shaped using packet inspection hardware which doesn't care about the port being used and looks into the contents of packets. Fact.

I just said the LLU one wasn't being shaped or monitored at the moment, the non-LLU services are being shaped and letters sent for high utilisation. 20GB / day is perfectly possible on non-LLU 2Mbit, which is both being shaped and monitored. Someone using 12 - 14GB in a day wouldn't raise eyebrows unless they did it repeatedly, there are people on 2Mbit who were shifting 600GB/month.

I've a certain unique insight into this stuff, I do know what I'm talking about with regards to these particular matters. Think Bill C might be able to testify to that.

The guy I spoke to was a tad more senior than the people you get on the phone ;) He didn't say anything about ruling it out for the future but certainly not there right now.

Re: Next upgrades.
 

What if it was too difficult to reduce the speeds through just torrents and newsgroups without messing with normal transfer speeds for all other tasks with packet inspection?

How do you know there isn't any taffic shaping going on or monitoring at UK Online for a FACT?

Why did he receice the letter then and had his speeds reduced to 200kb/s? for newsgroups and torrents. If I need to I will ask him to scan this document and post it to me to show you. He was actually downloading at 200kb/s till he got a work around for it.

Sorry but you are wrong because my friend HAS one of those letters for high utilisation with a LLU

Well what happened to Mr Insightful?. I'm sorry for being cheeky but I've already mentioned my friend has this letter. If I bloomin' read about it in the paper, fair point but no I didn't. Well it seems that UK Online is doing it ALSO. FACT

I apologise for that scare I was just worried as what I was downloading was running about 200kb/s and after what happened to my m8 made me paranoid. Was a "just incase". :)

Re: Next upgrades.
 

Because it's easy, you just tick a few boxes on a GUI.

I said none on the LLU which is quite different to none full stop. If there were shaping on the LLU network I'd know because I'd be working on it. (The joys of contracting)

The amount of workarounds is very limited and changing ports isn't one of them. People weren't throttled to 200kb/s, there is global shaping on the non-LLU platform which is dependent on the bandwidth being utilised by these protocols. Customers whose usage was targetted specifically were not throttled to a set rate in any way but were given a strict contention ratio.

Considering it's not being monitored it's not likely. If such a letter were sent it would have referred to non-LLU connections he might have had.

Again I didn't say that they weren't doing it at all just that they weren't doing it on LLU.
You're welcome.

Re: Next upgrades.
 

Since this topic is meant to be about speed upgradesi thought i post it here, i have bene looking on telewest maintenance page and recently they have been doign a lto of network upgrades and doign upgrades to the ubr's nto jsut in my area but nationwide do you think this is the start of potential upgrades to teh speed in some way?

Re: Next upgrades.
 

Not really, constant upgrades are needed anyway in order to maintain capacity for the current customers, also the more capacity that's free the better the performance.

Ex-Telewest areas are currently upgrading their upstream paths to allow them to fit more customers onto the same hardware.

Telewest didn't as a rule do big upgrades unless customers were complaining however these upgrades aren't necessarily major.

They may be looking at an increase in upstream capacity to match up with ntl's deals and get the 512k upstream on the 10Mbit product.

Rumours are also abound of a 15 - 20Mbps service being released to compete with ADSL2+, however this could prove challenging to support on an unlimited basis especially as customers would expect and demand at least 1Mbps of upstream on such services.

It's very tricky to guage exactly what ntl are up to. In the US the cable providers there compete solely on speed and are ahead of the DSL operators. Here the cable operators aren't number 1 for speed or price so it's tricky to figure out where they are going.

Re: Next upgrades.
 

i suppose that true, i just thought the ubr is what determines the speed ie if they can only have a max of 100mb (just random figure nto meant to be real) then with 10 people on 10mb they be at max capacity but if they wher eto upgrade it to 1gb (another random number not real) then they could say have 20 people on 50mb

but when i had the enginner install my tvdrivve 3 weeks ago he meantioned when i asked that telewest ar eflaling behind adsl2+ and are planning on try to top it somehow including making the u;pload speeds higher , so it that why ia m guessing it might be happening witht he upgrades

btw telewest is still operating indepently of ntl (for internet and tv) but will soon be under the new name i think. from what the engineer told me they want to merge the 2 networks together but it wether the costs will be worth it and they could save mroe money on it merged and that depends on the high acrtie to decide even they dnt know yet

Re: Next upgrades.
 

Ah you can't just upgrade the uBRs beyond a certain point. Under the current standards no local area can be supplied with more than 38Mb downstream capacity and 6 x 9.6Mbit/s upstream capacity.

When that isn't enough you can add more downstream channels, which Telewest do, up to a point. Think Telewest only run up to 2 downstream channels at the mo, so that's 76Mb/s downstream and 57.6Mb/s upstream available to a local area.

Please note that pings and speeds will get shaky with 40Mb/s or less of upload used, and that it's very difficult to have all 6 upstreams equally balanced for load so you're probably talking 30 - 35Mb/s of upstream available before some customers begin to notice issues.

At that point you have to do the big upgrade, network resegmentation which consists of splitting a single fibre optic link into two links so that an area that was fed from a single fibre link is split into two areas with fibre, then Telewest would have the capability to supply the 2 x 38Mb/s and 6 x 9.6Mb/s to each of those areas.

The difficulty of resegmentation varies between a little irritating and taking days right up to having to pull new fibre in and taking weeks.

Re: Next upgrades.
 

ok i unndeerstand a bit bette rnow so the ubr doesnt have much infulance on teh speed well that how i interupt it, if it max of 78mb how do telewet plan on giving 50-100mb to people like they annouce in thee report i think thi year? unless part of it to do with the docsis?

Re: Next upgrades.
 

Totally new system which involves completely replacing the existing uBRs and/or cards and will require new modems for customers to take advantage AND can only be done in purely digital areas.

The uBR doesn't have that much influence it's more how many homes each one is feeding that's the major thing.

Re: Next upgrades.
 

I'm sorry about the post before James Henry. I thought you were calling me a liar and that my friend hadn't received any letters for high utilisation. So I spat the dummy out. lol.

As for what software/hardware ISP's would use to shape traffic, not got a clue. Thats why I asked if it would be easy to use without messing with other lines (which was stooooopid of me saying)

You do know your stuff and have a lot more knowledge on this networking side of it. Again I apologise.