*All* ADSL Max Info In Here Please
 

I just heard that Bulldog will be launching ADSL Max (most BT exchanges were upgraded on 31st March), so for anyone out there on 1 or 2Mb ADSL, you should soon be able to get something a bit faster. :tu:

Re: *All* ADSL Max Info In Here Please
 

(depending on the loss on your line)

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Hence why I said *should*.

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Nildram have also started a Max product, subject to your exchange supporting it, as Neil says :tu:

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For those of you who are on BT's own BB service: http://www.faster.bt.com/

It gives you info about the upcoming 8Mb upgrades. :tu:

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I got my upgrade through Zen the other day - its gradually increasing the speed on my line, at the start it didnt budge above 2mb but im just over double that now.

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Looks like there might be some teething troubles with the upgrades

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30755

EDIT:

And BT have come up with a nice scam. Get an upgrade but by accepting it you will be locked into a new 12 month contract

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/05/bt_broadband/

Bet Ntl are kicking themselves for not thinking of that one.

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There's also a good checker on the BT Wholesale side that will give you a good indication of what your line can potentially support: http://www.bt.com/broadband/ :tu:

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Cool looks like I can get 6.5mb :)

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Neil, look double standarding customers like ntl :td: - 'It is our intention to offer up to 8Mb broadband to all new customers by June 2006. Our ability to offer up to 8Mb Broadband to all our existing customers will depend on the level of demand and capacity in the broadband network.'

Neil, look aswell, its a demand thing aswell, thats really bad eh? At least ntl actually give the speeds to everyone :td:

Looks really shabby to me, not to mention the fact that 8mb isn't 10mb like ntl :td:

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oh loos like my parents can get 8mb

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I have no idea what point you are trying to make....:erm:

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Yeah, of course you don't Neil because its not ntl.

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Not at all, I'll debate ntl/ADSL/whatever all day long-just so long as I know what point you are trying to make...

I'll have a go anyway:

What on earth does that mean? :confused:

Ok, you've taken that from the website link I gave earlier.

What on earth are you on about??

Really?

A quick click here would suggest otherwise.

I still can't make out what your point actually is I'm afraid.....

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I'm sure you were in the 'double standard' camp when ntl offered new and existing customers different deals.


Yes.....?


Well if you read the link you supposedly read and posted you would understand that it isn't 'standard', it will only be implemented if there is enough demand for it. Like with the early days of demand to get DSLAMS installed in exchanges.

You are more then more then more then enough occasions slate ntl for their rollout schedules. Well look at this? Some customers may not even get it? In your book thats a travesty right? (well at least if its ntl it is)


OK, maybe I should have rephrased that differently. At least they offer them.

A quick click here would also suggest otherwise - Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:48:55 UTC
1st 128K took 125 ms = 1048576 Bytes/sec = approx 8724 kbits/sec
2nd 128K took 109 ms = 1202495 Bytes/sec = approx 10005 kbits/sec
3rd 128K took 141 ms = 929589 Bytes/sec = approx 7734 kbits/sec
4th 128K took 125 ms = 1048576 Bytes/sec = approx 8724 kbits/sec

These results appear to be rather fast: maybe this page was in the browser cache.



...sigh.

Re: *All* ADSL Max Info In Here Please
 

I'm quite happy and impressed with bt broadband
I'm on up to 2meg and i'm 2 miles away from the exchange.:)

Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:01:45 UTC

1st 512K took 2187 ms = 234.1 KB/sec, approx 1929 Kbps, 1.88 Mbps
2nd 512K took 2218 ms = 230.8 KB/sec, approx 1902 Kbps, 1.86 Mbps
3rd 512K took 2187 ms = 234.1 KB/sec, approx 1929 Kbps, 1.88 Mbps
4th 512K took 2219 ms = 230.7 KB/sec, approx 1901 Kbps, 1.86 Mbps

Overall Average Speed = approx 1915 Kbps, 1.87 Mbps

I hope the up to 8meg, delivers results as good :D

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Are you?

Are you sure?

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/

I still have no idea where you are getting this info from-all but one exchanges get get ADSL Max now.

Just because ntl offer a 10Mb service, it doesn;t mean that the servie is good & that everyone receives it. :rolleyes:

Take a nother look in our ntl BB forum & see how many issues there are.

But then again, as long as yours is ok (which it doesn't seem to be).....:dozey:

:zzz:

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Er, I am referring to BT, hence why I quoted -





Its pretty much available across the network to those with modems with the option to get a modem. If its not, please correct me and tell me where it isn't.

Only 25% of customers will be able to receive 6.5mb and above. Thats straight from the horses mouth Neil.


Well if you really want me to post a screenie of the 1200 flat line giganews transfer I had going, I will. So there may be a slowdown now with congestion but thats better then a constant lack of speed, ala ADSL, right?

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They give to everyone?

You mean they send the 10meg config out but dont supply the actual bandwidth to everyone I think that is a bit more accurate.

BT had a problem where the users were synching higher but speeds were locked at 2meg on their profiles (yes I read up on these things) and they appear to be working on it fast as people are posting higher speeds now, I suspect this is what happened to this guy.

Also on BT 2meg adsl they have a min standard that if speed was below 400kbit then they treat it as a fault. 400kbit been 1/5th of 2meg so if they use the same margins for 8meg then they might treat speeds below 2meg as a fault. Which is something ntl dont do.

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:49 ----------

the link neil posted http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ also shows how BT make their exchange contention levels public green/amber/red. Will we see the same for ntl's ubrs? answers on a postcard please.

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jtwn, why are you quoting BT Retail (not Wholesale / Openreach) releases?

Max is a Wholesale / Openreach product, BT Broadband are just another supplier of this who are doing it via BT Wholesale.

You also appear to be blaming BT for the laws of physics which is interesting, namely that DSL is a distance dependent technology. This is the same worldwide, and FYI BT are looking at a number of ways to address this via pushing fibre deeper into the local network.

If you can stop arguing the virtues of ntl with Neil for a moment you'll actually realise what BT have done is actually pretty astonishing, releasing up to 8Mbit availability onto over 5,000 exchanges and to 20+ million PSTN lines isn't something to be belittled it's actually a hell of an achievement and is something that's never been done anywhere before as far as I'm aware.

Comparing BT and ntl like for like is grossly unfair anyway, BT are regulated to hell and back, their wholesale prices fixed high to encourage competition, their terms of access to their network strictly controlled, they have to ask permission to release new products.

ntl on the other hand have no regulation (yet) however to describe what BT have done as anything bar a great achievement is ntl fanboyism in my opinion. It's an outstanding piece of logistics, planning and engineering several months if not years of upgrades have made possible.

Hopefully it'll all go smoothly - the UK has just moved up the world speed table dramatically.

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James Henry good post, I wonder how ntl would have done with the same regulation restrictions as BT. Certianly all these isps reselling BT ipstream having to cap is as a result of the ofcom regulated prices.

Interestingly I may be moving to cromer which some may know is a nice little town in norfolk and adsl max is already enabled there. Hardly a high populated area but still done.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ex...hp?ecode=EACRO

no sign of ntl there tho, not a cherrypicked area I presume :)

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There have been some people having "teething" problems, after regrading their current servive to a MAX product. A helpful insight can be found here with links to further information.

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Its all part of the same group though, the money in the pit is all the same.

Yep, I am aware of the 21CN network, good luck to them. At the end of the day its not an issue whether the tech has its problems or not, we pay for x and would like to expect near enough that. If only 25% of people could only get at least 80% of the maximum speed on ntl I think this place would be DDOSed with the amount of people complaining.

It can be argued that BT should be regulated, considering they still have a monopoly of the country's phone network, it can be argued that it should still be regulated on the basis of the network, the copper loop, was built with public money before privatisation.

Thats so true about the UK BB position in the world, I can remember the days of the Scandanavian countries and their 8mb+ and thinking that that would never be over the horizon for us. How times change.

I don't get kicks out of having a stab at people or organisations, I just think some people are completely unfair. I'm not saying BT BB is a drab service, that would be generalising the same as if somebody said it with ntl, I'm just pointing out the cons that some people are to happy to glaze over. I don't swear allegiance to any operator, I just want the best for the us, the consumers.


I don't mind battling it out with Neil though when hes basically asking for it though :p: No hard feelings though ofc :)

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That argument is too old now, yes bt inherited a network but they have had to maintain and upgrade it, and they did not inherit a adsl enabled network.

Wether or not bt still have a phone line monopoly is debatable. The way ntl are raising prices for their phone service would suggest otherwise.

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Back totally ON TOPIC, my exchanged got Max enabled on the 31'st of march.
Any ideas when they are rolling out the upgrades because i missed out by 1 flaming day when i went BT :(

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ask your isp.

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They could not have maintained or upgraded, if they hadn't inherited it though.

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You'd be surprised at how poor and underinvested that network was when it was inherited. Actually if you remember that it was run by the Government you won't.

BT spent billions on that beastie. The cost of their upgrades and refurbishments by the time all was said and doesn't wasn't all that far from rebuilding a brand new network.

It was a cashcow for the government, very little investment in the telephony network at all came from them.

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Its arguable BT have spent more cash on their network then ntl have spent on theirs, also given the fact ntl and telewest have both also got freebies when they went into chapter 11 and creditors lost their cash.

---------- Post added at 04:49 ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 ----------

The ISP I may be looking at when I move is probably nildram, I see their cap doesnt apply 8 hours a day which would allow me to download larger stuff.

So 8meg for under £25 with a cap higher then what I have now not bad going.

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Oh the wonder of hindsight ! I'm sure if BT could have foreseen the problems they did have (and some of the dodgy kit that has been used in exchanges) I bet they wished they could have rebuilt a new network.

Trust me, the move to Nildram (should you make it) will be a good decision. It's the best ISP I've had, by a country mile. It's nice to see an ISP that doesn't rest on it's laurels, and is at the forefront of moving technology. I have an ex girlfriend, and her parents, and a friend of hers who are still with Nildram (recommended by me of course ;) ) and cannot fault the service. Personally I can't wait for LLU to arrive, as my local exchange simply can't cut it, as far as I'm concerned, hopefully Nildram's equipment can.

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I am well aware of nildram's strengths I have used them in the past, I like their attitude to power users and their communication. Also have a friend with them now and he is happy with his service. Nice to see that your experience is the same also.

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Well it seems BT are actually conceding there are problems, and not taking a flood of new MAX orders until the existing problems get sorted.

A Plusnet team leader posted this a few hours ago. Makes interesting reading.

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thats very good to have the decency to admit and halt orders.

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everyone I know speaks highly of nildram.

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I have been with Nildram, certainly one of the best imo.

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They tried to but the government of the time refused to allow them to do this so that the satellite and more specifically cable companies could compete.

They are now rebuilding the thing in full from the inside out though, starting at the core.

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And not before time.

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As James Henry is somewhat of an authority on the subject of ADSL, I would like your thoughts on this recent thread over on adslguide ? And anyone elses thoughts.

IMO a very suspect way of dealing with overcrowded exchanges, at the expense of residential customers.

No change there then ! :rolleyes:

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BT traffic shape at the ATM level as a rule to share the bandwidth out and avoid generating loads of congestion notification messages.

Nothing new there really :)

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there is a interesting thread at zen forum on adslguide where irocially the shaping thats supposed to prioritise office custoemrs actually makes the residental service superior, he had data from numerous exchanges and numerous isps that office adsl max speeds were roughly half residental max speeds.

Shaping just seems to make things worse overall, nothing beats simply buying more bandwidth and making sure there is enough in the first place. BT shaping at ATM level means every adsl max product is effectively traffic shaped?

Is legacy ipstream shaped in this manner?

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Yep it's done on the ATM switches in exchanges not on the DSLAMs / MSANs.

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hmm am I right this is simply to stop someone say downloading via the usual 1million threads on torrents getting more bandwidth then someone downloading a file one thread http download?

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Will the acquisition of an LLU product eliminate this traffic shaping ?

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it doesnt garantuee it, its dependent on the LLU isp you pick, to my knowledge both bulldog and be LLU would avoid it.

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Cheers !


So how are we supposed to know which ones do, and which ones don't ?

Do you have a source we can look up this information ?

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All LLU operators will prioritise business traffic above residential. Businesses pay a lot more.

That withstanding this traffic 'combing' isn't really anywhere near as obtrusive or aggressive as application layer inspection and throttling.

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if choosing between be and bulldog I would pick be given that bulldog appear to be winding down their residental business whilst be are just starting out. be are also been much more leniant installing adsl2+ whilst bulldog are refusing to install on longer lines.

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There is an interesting article posted at adslguide this morning, so I thought I would post a link to it here, which will be a help to people considering a MAX product. The article also gives links, to information about MAX and includes a nice glossary.

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Our 20:1 8mb down / 800k up bt business broadband that we pay £65 a month for is no better than my 1mb ntl residential cable connection. In fact its worse because they supply a crap wireless router that locks up all the time. Can't wait till we got a bit more cash and I can throw it in the bin.

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well no surprise since if they advertising it at 20:1 thats no longer accurate.

the bt office adsl max products are no longer stated as 20:1 but share the same VP as consumer connections and just have traffic prioritisation put on them to speed them up during office hours. I think in most cases they wont perform as good as the old 20:1.