Traffic Shaping
 

Well, some have aluded to this, but now it looks official.

Taken from section 20 of the ntlworld user policy.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

'We reserve the right' as opposed to we are in every area we can needlessly in the view of saving bandwidth/money.

Seems like a sensible thing to do to ease congestion with the higher tier services to beat off BT and the like until better technologies come.

Still I can max or near enough 24/7 :Pumpkin:

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:00 ----------

Oh and p2p, like I said with Bittorrent, Rogers and the amount of the network it takes up!

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Reserve the right is a polite way of saying that they are going to do it.

That's not the reason it's being implemented.

No you can't, you'll get your download speed abilities throttled from 6pm.

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:00 ----------

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

How much you betting Neil? Because if its over nothing you are going to lose.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. :erm:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Or already doing it but didn't want to own upto it.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

This should be fun

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

what is the reason?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Take a wander down to ntlw head end , take a peek at the equipment there set-up to do this and then come back here , lol

This is happening..

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

So how many believed me when i said they might be something going on with my connection. 6 till 12 was when i had my problems. soon as 12.00 midnight was hit it stopped. ? Now i know they have said 11.00pm but they might have been testing so took it till 12.00

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

if that really is you Bill, it's great to see you back.

(although somewhat puzzling that you have a new ID and flashing eyes)


I didn't believe you re shaping as I'd assumed it was due to your local network being overloaded due to underinvestment!

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Thanks for the welcome back. Yes it is me. :Yikes:

Funny thing is there has been no work on the ubr from what i can see but my connection is now fine. Put 2 and 2 together and what do you get ?

I am moving to Be Unlimited on the 1st of August anyway :)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Specifically what application is slow though? It's usually only certain applications like Bittorrent. Some of the newest clients encrypt packets so traffic shaping no longer works as the packets are not recognised as BitTorrent packets so they can't be shaped.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Newsgroups on port 119,7000,8000,9000 and Bittorrent. I use Unlimited newshosting.com who have a test page HERE

Anything else is fine and gaming is unaffected.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Makes sense. My ISP has done the same thing for a long time, but as adoption of BitTorrent clients that support encryption increases, that service at least will no longer be an issue. Newsgroups... different story as the packets are easily identifiable and the protocol probably isn't about to change.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I don't tend to use Bit-torrent that much. Its more Newsgroups. This has now got me looking furiously for an adsl2+ provider in my area.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Would they recognise irc transfers and shape those?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Possibly by looking at the 6000 region port traffic, such as 6667, 6668 etc. :shrug:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

NeilLooks like you were correct.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Or it could be Bill that the file sharers were most active in your region around that time leaching the bandwidth, but then I'm no expert. :dunce:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Well between that and the traffic shaping i am moving supplier.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

From the news article.

Frank, your view here please.

ntl have updated the user policy with something that is going to happen, why do you think ntl have failed here?

Are you referring to the fact that this is in the user policy, and has not been communicated to each customer directly, such as a mail drop?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

All I am saying, is as it looks like congestion is a great problem from where I am, it isn't overly needed to shape. Obviously the equipment will be prioritised to go where its needed the most and if provisioning of the VOD equipment is anything to go by then I have nothing to worry about.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Which of course is your right. :)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

So they'll be forcing people off the, relatively easy on the network, newgroups and onto, bandwidth sapping, bittorrent? Sounds like a plan :rolleyes: :D

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Because (just like they did with 'The Cap'), they have changed the AUP & not told anyone.

They have just amended the AUP probably in the hope that no one would notice-if ntl have nothing to hide & are willing to stand tall behind their traffic shaping, then why not just come out & announce what they are doing?

No, instead they just change the AUP & hope no one will notice. :rolleyes:

As Frank says, clearly they haven't learnt their lesson from last time. :nono:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...etwork-traffic

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

So when did they do this. If it was today then this smells of the cap debacle. Remember that was released on a Friday as well and no info given to the poor customer service people who had to field the calls.

I can see this thread just grow and grow and grow :LOL:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Of course I was right, I normally am when it comes to ntl. :angel:

pwn3d! :PP:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

It depends on wether the shaping is port based. IRC XDCC does not use those ports, it uses a random port in a high up range.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Is this just the NTL side of things, or is it happening on the TW?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Would someone care to put this in idiot mode, i use the BitTorrent client uTorrent and the P2P app called Morpheus and have noticed slower downloads lately, what does this mean, NTL are starting to **** me off, when Be Unlimited goes live in my area, i'm moving ...

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Okay. I think that ntl haven't communicated this properly because they have slipped this important change in without any kind of announcement. It now appears that customers are spending time trying to diagnose their connection problems because of a change that ntl have made and not communicated.

A change like this is important to announce in some way, especially after what happened last time in 2003, because it impacts customers. Because they are unaware that shaping is intentional, they are trying to fix what they think is a problem. That is not good customer service.

For the record, no I don't think that ntl should send an email to every single customer simply because this change doesn't impact all customers. Perhaps ntl's system should generate emails to particular customers when their traffic is being shaped? At the end of the day, ntl employ many communications people, and they should be able to figure the customer communication plan out for themselves. When I worked there, they didn't listen to me in terms of customer communication, and probably still don't listen to half their communications people.

The bottom line is that some kind of proactive communication should have occurred because the customer experience is affected and the customer has no idea why. Customer service 101.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Or you could just have said "yes", exactly as I said it :)

---------- Post added at 17:47 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------

OK, then does cable forum know of the reasons why ntl have done this, has it been communicated to you guys?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

WTF caps and shaping, sod P2P how will this affect games? and with the 10Mb/s Connection what am i now paying for? HTML and email? bugger that

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Seems to suggest traffic intensive apps such as p2p, gaming should be ok, not sure what sort of traffic an online game can generate. Perhaps shaping could improve gaming at peak time??

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Shaping can only improve gaming, that is if there was anything to improve on.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

utorrent i say and use forced encryption just d/l iso :dozey: thingy 23 seeders at most,took 1 hour 2 minutes 690mb.Oh how good it is to hear the smiths again .I must d/l a dictionary soon.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

ive looked over the web but cant find a simple explanation of traffic shaping. From what ive understood it slows down the packets but im a bit confused. Could someone please explain in more detail :)?

Also will using newsgroups be affected??
Good utorrent got protocol encryption recently, will make this basically useless for bittorrent (i think)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

jtwn you don't put on a condom unless you're going to do something a bit naughty :)

I am staying out of this anyway, I know where these things are and how many there are, and all of it under the NDA inherited from when I left ntl so best I keep schtum :)

EDIT: I'm also not entirely innocent myself having fully implemented traffic shaping on one ISP and assisted with its' implementation on another.

EDIT2: While encryption might prevent the provider from seeing exactly what you're doing there aren't many things that open 50 connections instantly and none of them are legit. ;)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

for those on torrents (azureus) look at this link

http://azureus.aelitis.com/wiki/inde...g#The_settings

as for the traffic shaping i got a letter in my last bill about a change in t&c's i never read it and not thought anything about it, maybe it was this change in the aup that was mentioned, unfortunately i dont have that letter anymore..

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Dont hold back m8 tell it how it is :LOL:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Erm, I think that is the issue...it doesn't appear that anything to do with traffic shaping has been communicated. I would guess that the reason they have implemented traffic shaping is because p2p and newsgroup traffic have been affected service quality for other customers, so rather than increase capacity they have decided to limit these services.

---------- Post added at 14:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

That may be the case, but if you limit connections then you will be affecting everything the customer is trying to do and not just the bandwidth intensive p2p applications. I'm not aware of any ISP that has done it like this for those very reasons.

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------

No, peers which support encryption will not be shaped because the packets will be encrypted. Peers which are not encrypted will be shaped as normal.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

RCN

The clever kit will allow through connections it can identify protocol wise, and block the unknown encrypted ones.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I just hope they give HTTP, Gaming, and VOIP traffic the highest prioarty.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Heh :p:
That is kinda lame though. Essentially what this does is only allow recognised packets at full speed, and everything else is slowed down. So much for net neutrality and being able to use your connection for whatever you want to use it. Personally, if I want to encrypt my packets, and encrypted packets get the lowest possible priority, then I would look elsewhere for an ISP :)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I wonder how traffic shaping of P2P stuff relates to the Bittorent trial

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

You can bet they will Tag there system so it is not affected. :)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

The one backed with Caching servers from Cachelogic? ;)

Those caches both serve subscribers on the network AND subscribers off the network. They can impersonate normal users, so that someone off network rather than downloading off you instead downloads off a Cachelogic box pretending to be you.

The result of this is of course that ntl save on upstream capacity on the cable network. You aren't uploading because a caching server is doing your uploading for you. You aren't costing them as much in off-network traffic as you're doing at least some of your downloading from the caching server.

Traffic shaping in this instance can eliminate the need to use WCCP or another load balancing protocol, the traffic shaping kit can transparently redirect your traffic to the caches to achieve the above results.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Smart **** :p:

:LOL:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Thats fine, until all ISP start shaping, just like most of them cap now.
And in a month or three they will start offering unshaped accounts at a higher price, its just another way to get more money out of us!

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I just RTFM ;)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I'm all for caching if it reduces costs and speeds up the network, but there are some interesting legal issues in there.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Not at all.

The Cachelogics store the 'indexes' to their data purely as hashes, same as other P2P 'clients' do.

There is no way for anyone to know exactly what's on the Cachelogics, therefore the ISPs can claim common carriage as they have no way of knowing what the boxes are storing.

If a content provider wants something removed they can, of course, ask for it to be, they just have to supply a really large hash of the file :)

It's more legally sound than newsgroup servers for example.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

That, my friend, is why we exist. If enough people shout loud enough that they don't want shaped internet, then (according to the theory at least) we should be able to affect change.

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

Okay great, bring them on. But this is not the same as traffic shaping.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Who said anything about the caches supplying the bandwidth at full rates? ;)

It's another way to shape :)

Already systems exist that redirect P2P packets within providers networks to avoid using bandwidth outside them, no reason why this can't be progressed further to a comprehensive caching, rate limiting and shaping solution.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Absolutely Frank.

The implications that an ISP would cache files for download, where the distribution of those files could be, and will likely be in breach of copyright laws are interesting indeed. I am not sure an ISP can hide behind conduit laws if this was the case.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

They manage it fine for Usenet.

See my earlier post for why legally these are more robust than news servers.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Hehe - not wishing to start a flamewar here, but what's "not legit" about bitTorrent in and of itself? You can download 5 CD Linux Distros on BitTorrent and that's 100% Legit.....

Of course, I'm making no statement here about the prevailing uses of BitTorrent and P2P applications, but I thought I shoudl point it out.

Move along - nothing to see here....

Muds

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Did any ntl customers get an email about this change to the User Policy from ntl?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Stop making posts about our MSN conversation :p: I'm giving you ideas obviously :angel:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I would imagine the only people to know are those who are implementing it. As for the rest of NTL and whom it may affect whether it be the customer or the people who have run around trying to resolve faults that where never there wouldn't know:rolleyes:

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

What did you do at ntl btw ig?

I know where some of the kit is as well, its easier to find than the flaming cf easter eggs.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Well, Newsgroup access here in Stoke seem to be fine, and so far tonight I haven't had to mess about changing proxies at all, so if they are slowing down BT packets and stopping dipsticks from knackering up the service because they are maxing out their upload then all the better. Besides, if you want to leech something you can still do it during the off peak hours.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

So as far as i can see, NTL decided not to roll out 10MB to all customers with different caps. 1MB and 2MB can have "unlimited".

Well as long as it's "unlimited" at snails pace and anything but what we actually pay for.

"Look at us,We are NTL,we have the best BB in the UK" yeah right!

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

The writing on the wall was big enough for me.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Tea boy.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

lol, ok TB:erm:

---------- Post added at 21:42 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------

No they are just saying let the network run fast for joe smo at tea time and on the night time your p2p app can dl at warp speed.

I'm not sure why everyone else makes such a fuss I perposfully traffic shape my own connection.

How many gamers here turn off p2p app altogether because of the negative effect it has on gaming?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

That's a fair enough point.Why advertise a 1MB,2MB "unlimited" product in January only to do a 180 on it 8 weeks later?Their system that bad?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Because in the current market "unlimited" refers to download caps, and there is not one of these on the service.

Although i had reservations about the idea in the first instance, i don't see a problem with shaping between the hours stated. As internet usage patterns change it will be more important for people to get better latency (gaming, streaming, VOIP).

If people want to leech and leech that is fine, but just if they try to do it between 6pm and midnight then it will just run slower :shrug: When i used to p2p at uni then i normally left it running overnight anyway, by normal (not student) sleeping hours that will leave 8 hours of unshaped leeching time...

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Same here however if the problems i had between 6.00pm and midnight was a test of the traffic shaping then there is no way in hell i want that. Therefor ukonline will be getting a call from me tomorrow followed by ntl disconnections on Monday. :)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

2MB unlimited is not "unlimited" if it is shaped?

It wasn't advertised as 2MB unlimited [when we can handle it]

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

No, in ntl's case it means total traffic, a capped service is the total traffic generated by one modem both ways.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

But it is now advertised as up to 2mb

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Well I am unsure of what I think about this and it is yet to happen so cant pass judgement on how its implemented. But from the wording it does seem like it wont be as bad as plusnet's shaping which is a relief. My current problems are not caused by shaping as everything slows down including http so I think their is no shaping yet.

What worries me is if ntl start delaying upgrades as a result of shaping making them not needed and they then get tempted to shape that little bit more when capacity becomes tight again and the shaping eventually becomes heavy.

The p2p caches I only see as a good thing it will save upload bandwidth at the ubr and should speed things up, in fact I think ntl should stop http caching and use those servers for p2p caching like someone else suggested in the past.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Indeed.I'm now advertised as "looking for a new ISP";)


I wasn't in January :)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

:) Great post, but there's a reason why, I think...

Bingo!

But what makes you think stuff on ntl's servers will be illegal....

err, theft legal??

but ntl don't make any money out of it....

Is it not obvious...???

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Yes theft is illegal,so is doing 150mph on the M6.Didnt stop Ford building the the ST Focus.What i do with my connection [as long as i dont go over the cap] is my business?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I'm not unsympathetic to this for a very good reason:) But ntl is not a charity, it's there to make money out of whatever it can....and with several billion pounds of debt, it needs to get on with it.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I don't have a problem with traffic shaping or caching as a way of reducing costs or improving network performance but I'm a bit of a cynic and not sure I trust some ISPs not to use it as a substitute for investment in network infrastructure.

It also feels like the thin end of the wedge.



Taken from here

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Perhaps they should have considered their debt before they decided to stump up a mostly cash bid for Telewest then throw a billion towards Virgin Mobile ;)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

To be effective then surely NTL would need to be doing Layer 7 shaping. Does this not have privacy implications? Why should NTL, or any ISP, be permitted under privacy laws to undertake deep packet inspection of my network traffic.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I didn't...

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Why should i have a substandard service just so NTL can continue with its insane obsession for buying other companies. I think that money should be spent on there network myself not on the purchase of other companies.

We have seen before where that gets them. In the book of how not to run a company look under CHAPTER 11. :D

---------- Post added at 23:50 ---------- Previous post was at 23:49 ----------

Nor Me

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Im not sure what you're getting at with this response, you can download a full Linux Distribution on 5 CDs or a DVD totally legally (as most Linux distributions are free) BitTorrent in itself is legal, its the content that can be aqquired with it that can be questionable. And the term "theft" is an odd one (no im not supporting it) to use as Theft implies taking something of value where as in my mind anyway, a Piece of software you haven't bought (or wouldn't have bought) in the first place isn't of value to the company as they wouldn't have had your money in the first place

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

It's odd. given the low cost of email, and the fact ntl spam us with junk such as their "monthly" magazine, you'd think that could include references to changes in policy. Or it could be attached to bills.

OK so they don't want to get buried in queries from the customers who are "not tech enough to understand" (a famous ntl quote from the cap days, thanks Mr Goodland), but surely they owe it to tell customers who might be affected?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Time i looked for a new isp.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Yep, your correct. I apologise, I misread. Linux is free. If it wern't, that would be a diffrent matter.
I agree!!! This is a very thorny issue with me....:mad:

I'm a ex-shareholder who cashed about £20 worth of cheques last week. If the company had been run properly there would have been a few more zeros on that cheque...Because of all the debt-for-equity swap, I lost the bulk of my money to the yanks who now own UK Cable PLC. (I can hear the violins now:) ) Although really our American friends always did own/control the UK cable networks from the very start.

Believe me, ntl's bosses are very aware they need to make money...This is how they're going to do it, I think...The legal downloading of film/tv and other content, for a fee, from ntl's own systems using bittorrent or such like system. Which has already been publicly announced. Of course to free up bandwith, those pesky folk illegally downloading stuff needs to be controlled a bit more than as is now. I'm whiter than white on this issue of course..:)

The question is, if people are getting stuff for free now, would they pay for it in the future? Perhaps that's why a "nudge" is needed now to turn people away from the dark side and into the paying light:)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Think there may be a lot of others joining you and Bill!

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

eh? I thought you'd already signed up to BEunlimited?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

There is no escaping it, this is the shape of things to come (sorry Nugget).

How many ISPs capped users before NTL?

Going to another ISP is just delaying the inevitable.

The future of the internet is corporate control.

I'm all for websites like this and the EFF, but users stamping their feet didn't change ISPs capping policy. At the end of the day there are only a relatively small number of subscribers that know what caching, capping and shaping is all about. The majority only care about being able to access content and price.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

It's a bit like brothels really. If you can't get rid of them, tax them. Making money is what companies are about and I reckon this traffic shaping is a step along that road.

Unlimited legal downloading of video content for say £30-£40 quid is on the horizon, or "coming soon" as ntl like to say. Bit like their pvr... In a few years we'll look back on this time with fondness. Oh, how we'll miss those pars and rars..so clinical downloading a film in a few seconds/minutes...now back to the present and Mr Emule:)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I wish I could change Isp from NTL but stuck as only just joined.Ho how I hate 12months contracts.This really stucks wished I stayed at beunlimited.If this sort of thing carry's on then,I leave ntl anyway.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

but do you think it's fair, 10mb customers pay £35 a month, or more, for an "upto" 10mb package, 75gb cap fair enough i can live with that, but for ntl to then introduce traffic shaping at peak times with no notice, and i may be contridicting myself here, when most people use their connections, expecting the fast speeds only getting 1mb speeds and sometimes lower, it's really just quite a farce.
how do you expect people to react to this, just fall over and say ok whatever, or expect to get what they pay for at any time of the day or night.
someone mentioned earlier in this thread that it would improve online gaming, thats complete kak, I was play cod 2 at about 4pm today, with a ping on about 50ish, quit out, sorted my kids out came back to start playing again at about 7 ish, couldn't get on a server becasue my ping was too high when i did eventually get onto a server is was in the 200 - 300 range totally unplayable
come on ntl sort yourself's out give your customers a good service that they pay for and you wouldn't be on watchdog every week

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

I would be interested to know how much actual cash was used for telewest and virgin, some say no real cash was involved others say it was, I find it hard to imagine how they can buy a company without using money. I would also be interested to know how they could be allowed to buy companies when they still have creditors to pay off and their network is close to potentially breaking broadcasting regulations when analogue gets switched off because they wont upgrade it, I would also be interested to hear what the eu regulator says about getting 0.5mbit on a 10mbit service is enough for them to fine ntl or something, I wont waste any time with ofcom they are useless when it comes to cable companies.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

No, I'm not happy. I was paying £37.99 for 3MB that was always 3MB. Than NTL, not me, decided to upgrade me to 10MB and knock £3 off the bill. What I'm left with is a service thats rarely above 5MB and almost never 10MB. The question is will traffic shaping improve this or not and what are the wider imprecations of traffic shaping?

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

well not only did they knock £3 of the bill they rolled it out when they hadnt the means to enforce the cap, so you get people downloading 100s of gigs on 10meg for 34.99, the whole thing is a mess and this shaping in to fix it quick and make it less noticeable for the bulk of customers.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Ok, I'll have a crack of this as I did mention it earlier.

I, like many ex-shareholders had money tied up in ntl/telewest. We had shares and we paid money for them. Those shares became worthless because the companies were in so much debt. So the American bond holders/banks took on this debt, several billion of it, for full control of ntl and telewest, then merged the companies together. So depending on how you look at it, either it cost the bondholders nothing or several billion. But no cash was handed over. There is no company that I know off that is in several billion pounds of debt. Just think what would happen if you didn't pay your mortgage, you'd lose your house. In this case, the cable networks would have collapsed. That's why the yanks did what they did. They control the UK cable industry that they had built and paid for in the first place and the price is they have taken on all the debt. Just imagine the interest payments on several billion pounds...

If the cable industy had been set up diffrently, this would not have happened. The Thatcher Government of the 1980's gave licences to lots of diffrent companies to run cable franchises all round the country. The companies were small and so were the franchises. They couldn't survive on their own. That's why you have lots of networks with diffrent technologies, because up until now, there were loads of cable companies. Its taken 15 years for all the cable companies to merge. This is why they're in such a mess. That time should have been spent competing with Sky and the monopoly that was/is BT.

Note: the Virgin deal hasn't happened yet and may never happen.

Now back to traffic shaping:)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

You are free to leave now if you want.

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

And when bee and all the other isps (that DON't own their own networks) go bust in a few years, he'll be back:)

Re: Traffic Shaping
 

Thanks for the info m8.:D

Neptune I will not be back if I left ntl way to much hassle changing phone isp and tv even if it was a bit cheaper not worth the hassle.Sky be doing broadband sometime this year so might give them a try have all three with them.