Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Just thought I'd point out that I've just had to give advice to a Sky customer on how to remove what is in my opinion Sky's pathetic attempt at Video On Demand.

Obviously ntl has it bang on for the delivery of Video On Demand where you use your TV and remote and simply select On Demand and select your choice of programme and or film from the menu.

Sky (SkyByBroadband - SBB) you download an application to your PC and the graphical application you run gives you the choices (like on ntl TV) of programmes/movies, you then have to download the eg: +/- 600MB movie and or +/- 300MB programme (size depends on length of programme/movie choice) and wait and wait, for it to download so you can watch on your PC!

Now if your on a broadband providers bandwidth restricted tier - your going to get a very nasty shock when you see your bill for excess bandwidth and these download sizes will cost a good few pounds - all adds up very quickly.

Sky also add some services to your PC for their application to run eg: Kservice.exe and Khost.exe - these are delivery applications required for SBB.

These files will start-up everytime you start your PC even when you don't run/use SBB and these applications will open and use port 8080 and use bandwidth even when not in use (again using bandwidth).

If you un-install SBB these 2 files named above remain and remain active on your PC using, listening and connecting without you knowing.

It takes some knowledge and or skill to remove these SBB files from your system to restore to a state where they aren't used by your PC.

Now remembering ntl's Video On Demand is wholly used via your remote control, ntl digital set-top box and TV and there's no download required to your PC (unlike Sky) with all these potential hazards involved - a truly Video On Demand as it should be :)

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

shame interactive / guide / on demand are so slow its unusable :(

should fix that first heh

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Obviously I can understand your complaint regarding slow/sluggish/freezing of ntl's menu(s).

If you have/use a Pace DSTB - I've found having/using the Samsung DSTB eliminates 90% of the above.

Sky+ (which is just normal Sky and a hard drive/recorder - not VOD) is very highly prone to slowness/sluggish and freezing + more.

ntl - you can freephone for help and or engineers to help resolve the problem.
Sky - you dial 0870 (national rate number) and have to wait excessive and often over an hour in the queue to speak to CS for help ....etc.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

have to say when I moved house I received a new remote (1 that is VOD ready) but kept my pacey, for some reason with the new remote I havent had 1 single problem with VOD, or the magical RED BUTTON on the beeb what used to happen with me was that my lovely pacey died as soon as I even thought about pressing the red button so now I'm a really happy customer with the tv

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

I have two problems with VoD -

1. The inconsistency of what gets put on VoD - it seems just about the only thing VoD regularly captures is Eastenders. Why not Life on Mars, Hotel Babylon, or the Top Gear Winter Olympics. Not much point having it if you can't guarantee they will be recording your fav programs. And of course there are no commercial channels - because of advertising rights I assume.

2. It suffers from the general unreliability of the STB - recently I have been unable to pause playback without crashing the Samsung STB!

Downloading programs by broadband may not be perfect, but it's what the BBC are doing as well - their IMP player not only downloads, but uses a P2P infrastructure, so you're uploading those programs as well!

Personally, I'll stick with my DVDR until the NTL PVR hits the streets.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

So true. I now have a working Sky system, However as soon as my 12 months contract is up i will be moving back to NTL, Sky's customer service is the pits. :Yikes:

And i was not aware before i signed up that they have customer service's in India, due to that its a automatic cancellation of service when the 12 months contract is up due to my stand on offshoreing.

Ntl only have tech support in India not customer service which is not perfect but i can handle as i never need to phone them.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

DSTB (NTL and Sky+) problems are universal. I understand the Pace has 1 processor and the Samsung has 2 processors hence why the Samsung can be more reliable over the Pace.

Having NTL TV and a DVDR is, in a sense PVR already but, obviously using 2 seperate equipments.

However Sky+ DSTB (normal sky with a built in digital video recorder (no VoD)) suffers greatly from all sorts of ailments - it's no more reliable than NTL's DSTB and Sky's doesn't even had VoD.

Imagine using the BBC IMP and SkyByBroadband (Sky's version of VoD) together on your PC. The bandwidth would be through the roof!

You can't turn off Sky's appliaction - even after you un-install it :Yikes:

More hassle than it's worth and a costly one at that ;)

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

I thought that was "illegal" I am sure a few months ago I heard that if they (any private company) using 0870 (national call charge) they had to answer straight away, as they make money (up to 12ppm) for you hanging on :nono:

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Well with all the dealings i have had with Sky customer support in the last month, I can tell you now that my call was never answered in under 25 mins. :mad:.

BTW they get away with that because you have been answered by the "push this button push that button" rubbish. They then procede to tell you how important your call is "Could it be because they are fleeching you while you wait".

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

I've had to call them 4 times in a year with problems with my Sky+.

The first time was during the daytime and I gave up after 30 minutes. Since then I've called in the morning just after 8:30 and been able to get through in 5 minutes or so.

But seeing this is normally a quiet time for call centres I'd hate to see the q's at peak times.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

The problem with NTL's VOD is the programme choice that you get and the uncertainty of what is going to be available in the next few days.

With Sky+ you can record any programme you want to watch when you want. Two programmes being recorded at the same time whilst you watch a previously recorded programme or one programme being recorded whilst you watch a different live programme is something that NTL cannot provide, yet.

I had a problem with one of my two Sky+ boxes this morning. All sorted by a very good Scottish lady in around 10 minutes without using a 0870 number. Dial 0800 731 6965 and choose option 2 followed by option 4. The call was answered in around one minute.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Would i be correct in saying that is a non documented number. As i have never been given that by Sky or seen it advertised by Sky. In other words i think that is the engineers line and would therefor account for the fast answer times..

So if they have a official 0800 number then i might phone them back and demand my telephone costs back on the grounds they did not inform me they had a 0800 number.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

You cannot seriously compare Sky By Broadband with a VOD service. It's not intended to be so, but it does give you an indication of the direction that Sky will be heading in towards the end of this year.

How so? I thought SBB is free to existing subscribers, right?


That may be correct, but most customers do not have a Samsung box, and even newer Pace boxes are no cure for the problem. Have spent long enough on this forum I have seen that Samsung boxes are no magic cure for all ills either.

That's not my experience at all. We got rid of ntl back in November in favour of Sky+, we have a v4 Pace box. It's much, much quicker than the ntl box we had. We've had one crash in that time, and it rebooted itself and all was well again.

There have been no picture freezes (the picture quality is a actually a bit better than ntl btw) the interactive actually works and there is zero sluggishness.

Whilst it's not a perfect system, it's the closest I've seen to one.

But you're right, it's not VOD. I thought the introduction of VOD in the final months before giving ntl their marching orders was a great thing. But then I got to use it...or not quite often. The system worked OK, but it was flaky at times. It looks poor, the key pushes are prone to severe latency. But then there's the biggest problem, the human aspect. Sadly the processes they have in place for 'recording' BBC programmes 'off-air' is flawed at best. Often programmes are missed or take several days to appear.

I went into the Sky+ concept to use it like a VOD system, in that I would set it to record lots of stuff that I didn't know whether I wanted to watch or not.

The biggest difference of course is that I can have pseudo-VOD from hundreds of channels, rather than just a handful of programmes from six channels (for no extra charge anyway). Also I can start watching one of my VOD programmes whilst the end is still playing out. I would have to wait a couple of days to pass with ntl woudln't I?

Personally, I think I can be objective enough to say that there are good and bad bits for both systems. The ideal situation would be a box that did both, but that isn't available yet. But it will come this year, and that's an exciting prospect.

But if I had to choose either ntl's VOD or Sky+ - no contest...Sky+ is the winner.

Your point about 0870 numbers is very true, and I think it's poor to expect your customers to spend 10p a minute on a call that could potentially last a long time. No doubt Sky make a reasonable sum of money from this and have quite rightly come in for a lot of stick for it.

The flip side of the argument is that I have never experienced the kind of delays you're speaking about. I have only had one reason to call Sky since we subscribed; as we were coinciding our subscription with our new house, they sent the card to the wrong address (the new one) before we moved in, so I was a little worried it hadn't arrived. The call queue was approx 2 mins, the problem took a little longer to sort out (it appears that Sky's customer services are almost as bad as nt's) but it did get sorted by someone who knew what they were talking about.

Compare this to ntl, where despite being a free call, you can often be waiting for 20-30 mins (although it's a lot better these days than it used to be) and you get through to someone who knows virtually nothing about their products/services. There was a post on here the other day from an ex-CS operative who admitted that they 'made up' answers with regards to which channels were in certain TV packages.

I would point out as an aside that I have been immnesely impressed with BT's customer service pepople. They come in for a lot of stick, just like Sky's and ntl's - but in my experience so far (and unlike ntl and Sky) I can see no justification for it. I have made a few calls to chop and change calling feautures, sort out itemised billing etc, and every time (even at 6pm, which I would assume to be a peak time) the queues have been very short, the staff are friendly, seem to be happy and certainly understand the questions and answers. There's something for ntl to aspire to.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

You are right you can't compare VoD to Sky+ at all, they are different things. NTLs version of Sky+ isn't released yet. VoD is something separate, and Sky's version is woeful and if they think customers will sign up for it in large numbers then they are having a laugh. Average Joe won't have a clue how to use it.

Personally, i would choose VoD over Sky+ because when NTL release their version of Sky+, NTL customers will still have VoD in addition to this and easy to use (no doubt a new box will make VoD quicker etc. too). Sky customers however will still be left with a paethetic Broadband attmept at VoD which won't win any customers at all. All i have to do is wait a bit, and while i am paying a lot less than Sky Customers (Sky don't do deals or discounts, i have 2 colleagues who have the same packages as me but i am probably paying £20 less) the wait is a very happy one :)

However it's all personal preference at the end of the day. Nobody can say Sky is better or NTL is better because it isn't true, different strokes for different folks.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

I just did a search on Digital Spy to get that number. The problem with my Sky+ Thomson box was that when I went to watch TV this morning all I got was a blue screen and no button presses on the remote did anything. A reboot of the box didn't cure the problem so I was unable to go into the Services menu to find the contact telephone number. DS gave the 0800 number which is the same number as given on http://www.saynoto0870.com/companysearch.php . Apparantly the number is a Retailers Installation number. The Sky agent was able to clear the problem by remote access via the satellite to my box after I had told her what steps I had taken to resolve the issue. She didn't make me go through all the rebooting, check cables, etc that many support people take you through even after you have told them what you have tried. :tu: Good service from Sky.:tu:

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:16 ----------

I got rid of NTL DTV before VOD came on the scene so have no personal experience of it. From what I have heard about NTL VOD it appears to mainly be repeats of programmes already shown live in the days previous. There does not appear to be any advance notice of what may be appearing on the service. How can this be better than Sky+?

With Sky+ you can decide what you want to view in advance of the live screening from the full selection of all the channels on the EPG including Box Office films not being restricted to a few offerings from half a dozen channels. If you record Box Office films you do not pay for them unless you watch the recording so you can line up a few films and not worry if you don't have chance to view them. Basically to me VOD sounds like you have a chance to view repeats of programmes if you are lucky enough to find the ones you want on VOD which Sky+ owners could have pre-programmed to record with certainty.

Sky By Broadband is something different to VOD and has uses which make it a useful addition to normal Sky+ viewing. You can download a selection of films overnight to your laptop for viewing away from home.

NTL have their own PVR coming soon. Sky have also got a new feature in the pipeline. For some months now new Sky+ boxes have come with a 160GB hard drive rather than the 40Gb drive previously used. This has 80GB for customer use giving an average of 40 hours recording time against previous boxes 20 hours. The other 80GB is reserved for Sky use with the favoured guess being that it will be used for downloading 40 hours of content similar to NTL's VOD content during periods when one of the Sky+ tuners is free. We will have to wait to see what it's actual use is for as Sky are no doubt keeping full details secret in order to have a response of something new when NTL actually get their PVR off the ground.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

You're basing your opinion on something that doesn't exist yet. You're also falling into the same mistake as the O/P by suggesting that Sky By Broadband is a full-on VOD system. It's not, it's never claimed to be. It's just a little added extra for existing subscribers. By the sounds of it, not a very good one, but added extra none the less. Although I am curious to know whether you or the O/P have actually used it. Also, have you actually owned a Sky+ box?

With regards to SBB, there is, however a full review here: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds28064.html which does mention that it is positioned as 'a loyalty bonus'. The same thing is also happening on mobiles from Sky too. That could not be compared to a full-on VOD system either.

The new ntl PVR might be the best bit of kit in the world, if it is, then I would say it is. But bearing in mind that they are four years behind in development of such a product (by comparison to Sky), and that it's ntl we're talking about I'd be surprised if it was a 'Sky-beater'.

Personally I think they'd have been better off ditching the project, as they're so late now anyway, and just developing an integrated HD solution - but quite where they'd get the money to replace several million STBs out in the market I don't know.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Yes, i've used Sky+ and yes i have used NTL on Demand, though my area which is Norwich hasn't been enabled, so i can't say i have used it extensively. If SBB is an extra then that would make VoD an extra too and a better extra than Sky's extra IMO. Yes NTL are way behind Sky with the HD i have not denied that but as i said previously, i am happy to wait as i am on a cheaper package than virtually every single Sky customer with an equivilent to me. That's what you arn't getting, i'm saying different people like different things. Sky+ might be the most important thing to you, it's not to me the fact i have a cheaper package than than anything equivilent Sky customers get is most important to me.

Hence: Different strokes for different folks.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

But you haven't lived with either., that's the point i was making. I've used Homechoice and it looks wonderful. However I know a few people who live with it and it's not quite as amazing as I thought.

Aside from the fact that ntl offically launched a VOD service and Sky an added extra you mean? I'm assuming that (the same as me) you haven't used Sky By Broadband either, which makes me wonder why you insist on comparing that and ntl's VOD.

Sky have already stated that they will be launching a VOD service later this year. So what does that make SBB? In the opinion of the industry, it makes it a way of watching a few bits of video on your computer. That's not the same thing as true VOD.

I have no objection in people paying less and getting less - that's all basic economics. But I got the impression that you would favour ntl on the basis of a product that is not yet available. If that's not the case then I'm not sure why you put it in your reasoning for the decision. There's no doubt that ntl's current VOD offering (assuming you only want a handful of popular BBC programmes from that week) is cheaper than running a Sky+ subscription. But if you really are saying that the basis of your decision is on future promises from ntl, I would be personally surprised if ntl did not make additional charges like Sky+ for PVR functionality.

Personally, I don't understand why ntl are going down the route of PVR development. They are extremely well placed to offer the best VOD system in the country - far more than Sky can, currently.

However, the Sky status quo is changing and they will be able to offer true VOD through their shiny new broadband ISP which will really make the market interesting. As usual, ntl were caught napping, and now they need to use these few months really knuckling down to secure major content deals to make thier VOD offer better than everyone elses.

There's not a week that goes by when I don't see a press release from BT telling me the latest content deal they've struck up for their VOD service (also launching later this year), Sky already have lots of content deals in place...but ntl seem to be relying on a few badly encoded music videos, movies that cost more than renting from Blockbuster (and appear several months afterwards), BBC Worldwide DVDs (that cost more to watch a series than it costs to buy the deluxe box set) and the real draw, the free content from the BBC from that week....which, as mentioned, cannot be counted on as ntl often 'forget' to record it.

But you're right....different strokes.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

For me and I would imagine many other customers Sky is cheaper than NTL. I have two Sky+ boxes on the full family pack with sports and movies.

£52.50 with Sky (£42.50 for channel package and £10.00 for multiroom).

Would be £57.00 with NTL (£42.00 for channel package and £15.00 for second STB).

I know that you may have to buy your Sky digiboxes and NTL boxes are only rented but. My first digibox was free with free install and I still have it in reserve. My first Sky+ box was free with free install and my second was £49.00 with free install. I did pay £65.00 for a out of warranty replacement of my first Sky+ box but could have avoided that if I had known then what I know now. ;)

So for £4.50 per month less than what NTL would charge for 2 standard STB's I have 2 Sky+ boxes with the ability to record up to four programmes at once. Wonder what NTL will charge for their PVR when it eventually becomes available?

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

I never said that. I can use the reasoning of cost against waiting for a PVR from Sky. I never made a comparison of NTL's PVR against against Sky+ because NTL don't have an equivilent.

You however seem to think on a topic of 'Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!' that Sky+ is relevant, which surprises me because are you telling me Sky+ is the same as VoD or even close? SBB is a far closer comparison to VoD than Sky+ is. Which is what the original poster of this thread was commenting on.

I'm sorry anyone who thinks Sky+ is an equivilent of VoD... You are wrong it's a different service.

What surprises me more is that you say you are suprised of my puting this into my reasoning as NTL don't have the product yet which Sky have (which as stated above i didn't do it was a series of points which i base my Sky/NTL decision on) yet you just stated Sky don't have VoD yet but are planning end of year for it? And yet you decided to post on this thread which is talking about why NTL VoD have it right?

Sorry, i am just slightly confused.

Maybe we should just cut this one short as i don't think either of us are wrong really, just we want different stuff.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

SkyByBroadband by it's very name and content is to look like a watered down VoD.

The Sky / Easynet LLU buyout is moving it towards programmes and movies delivered by broadband (IPTV - VoD) - this will either involve downloading and or streaming and if your on a broadband providers capped tier then you'll either have to pay the excess and or do without - no doubt at a much later date Sky will offer broadband access and also have deals which include IPTV but, the system will be the same as SBB.

Having Sky+ you are limited by your hard drive capacity where on NTL VoD your not.

Yes NTL PVR will be similar to Sky+ but NTL will also have the added advantage of VoD in an all-in-one system where you can watch from hundreds of programmes and films in an instant - a much more superior service delivery.

Yes I have downloaded/used then uninstalled SBB hence how I know of the 'nasty' leftovers as outlined in my previous post.

SBB is a depressing path towards Sky's IPTV - VoD.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

See this is what i mean about different strokes. I just have sports and not movies and i pay £4 per month permanently, not a fixed short term deal for the sports. I also have the 3 for 1 deal which means i pay effectively £12+ for the family pack and £12+ for talk unlimited and i pay £10 for multiroom when it's supposed to be £15 and i never have to worry about initial cost of a box or repairs.

My 2 work colleagues who have identical packs to me can't get near my pack's price and wish they lived in an NTL area.

I pay £40, i don't have movies, yet my telephone is included in that. Beat that Sky.

Your pack suits you and my pack suits me, don't think it makes one necessarily better than the other.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

According to NTL's website its £15.50 per month for the Sky Sports collection. How did you get it for £4?

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

The same way that people who have mobile phone contracts that are £30ish a month get phones once a year worth a couple of hundred quid. They don't advertise the fact, but you can always ask.

OK i am off for the evening heh But lets not have another NTl / Sky fight, lets hope they just continue learning from each other and push the limits for us lucky users!

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Why do defensive? To avoid any further confusion, here's what we're saying in a nutshell...correct me if I'm missing your points:

I said that I would pick Sky+ over ntl's VOD system, as I use the Sky+ function like a VOD system, given that there's always more stuff I set up to record than I will actually watch, on the basis that I might find something insteresting on there. I said this becuase I have used both for several months, and the choice in my content is now much greater (in an 'on-demand' scenario). Yes I have spend a little time figuring out what I want it to record, but given that I've discovered some excellent programmes this way, I'm happy to do so. I would say the same about NTL too...I discovered the BBC programme Coast on there and was gutted that I'd missed most of it!

You said that you would pick NTL's VOD system, becuase at some point in time they would offer PVR functionality.

I'm suggesting that this cannot really be a deciding factor in which you would pick today, as the PVR function is not available on ntl and the VOD function is not available on Sky.

Am I missing anything here? :)

The O/P (in post 3) brought the subject of Sky+ into the fray. Personally, and you're as entitled to your views on this as I am, I cannot make any comparison between Sky By Broadband and a VOD system. First of all, it's not on demand - you have to download the content first. Second, it's not for watching on your TV (unless you've got a Media Center PC I guess), it's to watch on your computer. In the same way as Sky Mobile gives you clips to watch on your mobile phone, Sky By Broadband gives you clips to watch on your PC. It would be like saying that clips you can download from BBC website are VOD...well yes in the broadest use of the word, but not when it comes to industry definitions.

I'll say it again, I use my + box like a VOD system...I go out a lot, I set the box to 'tape' a lot of stuff when I'm not there and I flick thorugh the lists of what's on there when I've got time to kill, just like I did with the VOD system on ntl. Only now, I have lots more to choose from. So to me it IS comparable to a VOD system, but you need to put more work in at the front end to make it so (like ntl need to put more work into the back end to make their useful).

Just like Sky by Broadband is a different service completely to ntl VOD and both are completely different to a VHS and Sky+.


Clearly. I was saying that if I was made to choose between the VOD function of ntl and + function of Sky, I'd pick Sky+. Not on the basis that Sky will be launching VOD in the future, solely on the basis of the offer that was available to me today. Now ntl might pull their fingers out their backsides and put almost every programme ever made onto their VOD system by the crack of dawn tomorrow. In which case I would say that I would choose their system over the Sky+ system. Becuase that hasn't happened yet, I can only tell you what I would do today.

NTL's PVR might be the best thing in the world and they might get more and better content on VOD by the end of the year. Sky's VOD service might be pony - we don't know, we have't got there yet.

But to make comparisons between a service where you download a few clips of video to your PC and full-on VOD service is patently inaccurate.

I'm assuming that this is opinion rather than publicly available fact? This is especially important as Easynet are yet to complete the deal with BSkyB, so I'm not really sure how we can be predicting the final specifications of a network that doesn't even exist on paper yet.

Thank you for that prophecy of doom. Care to explain why IPTV is such a bad thing? Before you answer, I would point out that the ntl STB works on a very similar basis.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Clearly you are confused too, lets just leave it we agree to disagree.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

So was I wrong in my summing up of what you were saying?

I really don't understand the problem. If I was wrong, tell me where and I'll put it right. if not, perhaps we can have a grown-up discussion about it.

There's nothing to be gained by taking one line of someone's post out of context in order to throw ones toys out of the pram.

Just so, if there is something that I am saying that you don't understand, tell me and I will try to explain myself better.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Yes, but they do that in exchange for getting you into another 12 months contract.

I doubt NTL give 75% discounts just for asking though.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

I was already on a 12 month contract before i had Sport added. Of course you have to take my word for it but i assure you i am not lying.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Never said you were.

So as you were already in a 12 month contract and couldn't threaten to cancel, you just called up and said can I have a 75% discount and they said yes? No wonder they had financial troubles.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

I know that the ntl STB has an IP - not sure if every STB has an individual IP and or if it's a static IP.

To clarify and please correct me if I'm wrong:

VoD - is to supply a viewer requested programmes eg: NTL VoD
IPTV - is Internet Protocol Tele Vision eg: broadband Internet NOT via a closed cable line as VoD.
Sky+ - is simply a digital satellite receiver with a built-in hard drive.

I compare NTL VOD and SBB as SBB is closest to VoD that Sky has to offer.

Not to detract from my original post and the point that I was making was that NTL VoD is superior delivery system of programmes and or movies as one doesn't need to install any software also a major point is it is delivered instantly on big screen and not like SkyByBroadband (SBB) to PCs where PCs have limited storage and smaller screens and possible bandwidth restrictions not to mention any possible network problems with download from SBB.

Sky+ is different and can't be compared to VoD as all Sky+ is a digital recorder on local hard drive. VoD is from a remote storage.

When NTL launch NTL PVR this no-doubt will also have VoD (as above) and is in my opinion a superior product and delivery system over Sky's Sky+ and SBB.

BskyB (Sky) purchasing Easynet LLU is expected to go through - I aren't going to argue that point but, to say it's widely accepted to happen.

I am predicting: that Sky as they are pushing SBB (similar to VoD via the internet) it will use this purchase of Easynet to deliver their SBB and become and ISP to customers so they can do tiers attached to their SBB.

As Sky can't offer VoD via satellite it will go down the internet route to deliver and the anticipated purchase of Easynet by BskyB (Sky) adds strength to this point.

In a nutshell Sky is taking the less superior route to deliver programmes where NTL VoD is more superior due to speed, delivery and end consumer product.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

You guys want to be careful waht you say about Sky:

http://www.netimperative.com/2006/02...y_comment/view

Sky are doing deals right left and centre by the looks of it from that article, Homechoice, UKOnline, Bulldog(??)! Maybe "SkybyWire" will be the next big thing? Probably not but IMHO Ntl just can't provide a TV/Phone/BB services like my current setup.....sad but true.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

I'd ask myself why are Sky doing deals left, right and centre.

Reason could be is they fear being left behind and or do this to subsidise inferior delivery system(s).

Sky can't afford to take the risk and be conplacent.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

You are correct in all three, but you still haven't explained why IPTV is a bad thing.

I hear you and you're within your rights to compare a Aston Martin with a rain cloud if you like. Personally i think you're misguided to so, and I think you'll find that the broadcasting industry is also not comparing Sky by Broadband with a VOD service. Why is that?

I agree. NTL's potential VOD offering is amazing. I said it many years ago and they have only just started dabbling (for understandable reasons of cost). I still believe that this is the big unique selling point that cable has over broadcast, even current xDSL (but not for long in the latter as much larger speeds become available).

The problem that any broadcaster has is content. Content is expensive, and it's a careful balancing act to ensure that the right product is available at the right price. As there are no commercials to get in the way of viewing, traditional funding methods need to be found, this means charging per programme, this means far fewer views per programme as people will take less 'risks' in their viewing habits.

NTL's current content is poor. Music videos, expensive movies and even more expensive old BBC sitcoms do not make a complete line-up.

But I still think you're devaluing your own argument by insisting on comparing it to SBB. SBB has only ever been billed as a way of watching some TV/movie clips on your PC. Totally different, and not even on demand anyway (as I have already said).

I know some of my posts are long and boring...but if you're going to question me at least do me the favour of reading through them....I was the one who said that I treat my Sky+ box like a VOD service. I use it to record loads of stuff that I wouldn't normally watch 'live' and can filter the wheat from the chaff quite quickly. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT SKY+ IS A VOD SYSTEM, just that I can use it to the same end result personally.

On this last point you speak sense sir! NTL's network is far more suited to high bandwidth on-demand type operations. But the competition from BT and Sky (and a much lesser extent Homechoice, although I can't see them lasting too much longer) will be fierce and the winner will be the one with the deepest pockets and the best content. Right now BT and NewsCorp beat ntl on the pockets. Sky has lots of content, BT keep on telling us how much content they will have...and ntl have some ropey old music videos!

But...and this is the last time I'm going to say this....if ntl pull the rabbit out of the hat and come up with a better system than the others....I will be the first to say so.

I couldn't care less who's system is better than anyone elses. Like most consumers, I care about the cost, the quality of the content and picture and the level of customer service - if ntl do well on all three they will be winning lots of customers. But history (nine years personally) tells me that they are going to struggle on some of those issues.

But one thing is certain, there's no point in comparing SBB with ntl's VOD;)

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

IPTV isn't a bad thing but it is an inferior path for Sky to take aside NTL VoD

I can't help comparing SBB with NTL VoD as sadly that's what Shy have chosen to offer - a rain cloud!


NTL VoD is perfectly priced and I mean that in all honesty and with unbias.

NtL have set out VoD menu just nice and everything is in seperater category, you can choose to watch on your TV in an instant from single music tracks to comedy to full length movies and I agree theirs not enough on, theirs never enough and I certainly have this argument about Sky and their PPV and movie channels.

I know the movies are priced well and I compare this price with Sky's PPV price - it's similar.

OK! To clarify VoD is not Sky+ - totally different.

I'm not taking these factors into account - I'm comparing NTL VoD with the next best thing Sky has to offer. My Post is regarding delivery method but I have covered price and certainly NTL VoD is not expensive, how anyone can consider it so doesn't know what they are talking about!

Old music is better than new too me as I prefer 70's and 80's and ntl VoD covers that too as well as latest stuff so ... plenty of it but, again we can never have too much ;)

The delivery method is deeply important as it gives the end result to us customers. NtL have it right you can watch VoD on your TV screen and or computer but, Sky's nearest thing is SBB where you have to download, wait, download, wait and then watch on your PC plus the content (programmes/movies) it expire after 30-days!

NtL VoD is far more superior - imagine having a nice widescreen LCD TV and not being able to watch programmes/movies instantly on it but you can with NTL VoD and you can't with SBB - you'll have to make do with your monitor.

Give it time Sky will start charging for this SBB as they'll want their money back for having to buy Easynet LLU so they can move forward but move forward in an inferior way. If Sky customers are happy to make do then good but, I'm not and I want my money'sworth (of investment) out of a company!

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

No disrespect but, you have to look at the wider picture to understand clearly.

Sky are using SkyByBroadband (SBB) as a path forward to a full blown VoD type delivery method.

Sky can call it a 'loyalty bonus' but, Sky aren't stupid not to use the customers opinion on these methods it's using.

Sky can't offer VoD via it's satellite so is having to look at other methods of trying to deliver VoD. Sky need their own source of delivery method to Sky customers as Sky don't like using 3rd parties and paying money to a middle-man so they buy Easynet LLU and push SBB to customers (free to start with while they get it popular) as a way of moving forward.

The method they are going to use (internet delivery) is inferior to NTL VoD as they are going to require massive bandwidth capacity to deliver hundreds of programmes and movies ...etc via the internet to a possible millions of customers. If these customers are on a bandwidth restricted tier then they are going to pay for delivery that way due to going over bandwidth allowance, the chances are Sky will charge for the service (they won't miss a golden opertunity for more money) plus I think they'll offer customers deals if they move internet service too them (at a later dat/when rolled out) after the buyout of Easynet.

It's going to be very costly and unreliable and one Sky are going to expect customers to cover by subscription.

NTL VoD is by far easier and more reliable and it's here to see and use.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Interesting article on the Register today touching on all of this and arguing that Sky has nowhere to go but down. Not sure I agree 100%, but it's long and well researched (plenty about return paths and why it's important).

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/17/dont_fear_sky/

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

With all due respect, I don't think you've researched your subject at all well. I have worked in the past (at strategic levels) for a company that later became owned by Sky. I do understand the different delivery methods (strategically, if not the inner workings, technically) extremely well. I have also had dealings with VideoNetworks, who operate HomeChoice and with Yes TV in Hong Kong - both of whom operate true VOD services via xDSL connections.

So I do actually know what LLU means to a company like Sky, as it was to Homechoice on a much smaller scale. That's how I'm also able to see the complete disparity between a VOD service and a throw-away computer app.

If you have a look around, there are already operating companies offering true VOD (not P2P, which is what Sky By Broadband is) via a direct xDSL connection. By the end of Spring most of the exchanges in the UK will be offering 8mb+ via ADSL.. Exchange equipment that can had vDSL are alreay being installed. This all has absolutely zero to do with Sky By Broadband.

As you said yourself, it's a flaky bit of P2P software for a computer. Not for your home TV, not for your Sky box. Period.

I don't mean to sound rude, but for someone who claims to know so much about what Sky's plans are, you're remarkabkly uninformed about even the sketchy information that Sky have put out into the public arena, let alone their actual plans.

I might criticise ntl at many waking moments (largely becuase they made my life a misery at frequent opportunities), but where they do something right, I will at least say so. But it seems that we cannot have a sensible and relevant discussion about this as your loathing of Sky (for a reason of leaving a few registry traces on someone else's computer as far as you have told me) is getting in the way.

Nothing more to say from me. But if you ressurect this thread in 12 months from now, you might find that I was right after all.

Night night.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Sky tell white lies to customers as they say SkyByBroadband (SBB) is a 'loyalty bonus' when it's in fact a trial for Sky VoD - Sky always has ulterior motives behind it's moves.

Customers are fed-up with the same age old repeats month after month so offering SBB with the same as they do on satellite doesn't keep customers happy.

To reinforce my theory:

James Murdoch, BSkyB CEO, said the acquisition will allow the company to find new outlets for its entertainment offerings.
He said in a statement: "Today's offer reflects the exciting opportunities that now exist to combine quality entertainment with significant high-speed connections. Entertainment is at the core of Sky's success...
"We see value for families in moving well beyond just another triple play to offer a new level of connected entertainment and communications services."
It's thought BSkyB may look to turn Easynet into more of a consumer, rather than business, ISP, opening up the potential for BSkyB and Easynet to cross-sell broadband access and video on demand or triple play services to each others' customers.

Source: Silicon.com

---------- Post added at 23:17 ---------- Previous post was at 23:09 ----------

Leaving physical files that remain active filesharing after you un-install the product from Sky is more than registry entries!

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

written by alex cameron a direct competitor - that article is all about his self promotion.

---------- Post added at 09:34 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

http://www.digitaltx.tv/

perhaps he should fix his web site first before ripping sky apart.

---------- Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 ----------

"this feature is currently unavailable" - what a ******.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Hah! Well researched ;)

Big picture, yes it's an early attempt at VoD and clearly they don't have a clue.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

if skybyboardband was downloading to our sky box rather than a pc then it might have a use but as it is, it's pointless because your mass market tv viewers do not download to a pc to watch stuff.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Forget about who supplies what and how and think about what the consumer actually wants. They want to watch TV content both at the moment and at some future time.

If they want to watch content immediately they are restricted to what each channel is broadcasting now, making a selection from a VOD service such as that provided by NTL or making a selection from what they have previously recorded either by VCR, DVD, PVR (including Sky+), SBB, etc. Viewing previously recorded material means that you can view material that you have decided will be to your liking whereas VOD may not have anything at all available that interests you.

What content is available on VOD? It can be repeats of already broadcast popular material such as Eastenders or more obscure material. If you use VOD to watch repeats at a time other than the live broadcast time you can watch exactly the same content at a time that suits you by recording it on Sky+ or whatever medium that you choose.

I cannot really see what the attraction of VOD is. Using a PVR such as Sky+ gives you the ability to record anything on any channel for later viewing after the live broadcast. You can watch it from the start at any point after the live broadcast starts, even just seconds after it started. You are in control of what is being recorded and when you watch it. With VOD you only have a miniscule choice compared to that available using Sky+. Pre-recorded content on Sky+ on playback is of the same quality as the original broadcast which gives Sky+ an advantage over most other copying methods

The only advantage of VOD that I can see is the ability to watch content that has already been broadcast live that you haven't recorded and which is not being repeated. These days most popular content is repeated and I would imagine that VOD content is mainly of popular programmes.

What content is available on VOD which couldn't have been recorded on Sky+ from the live broadcast? I can list thousands of programmes which can be recorded on Sky+ for later viewing at a time to suit which are not available on NTL's VOD offering.

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

Whatever the attraction is of VoD is but, it's caught the eye of Sky also and got them on the quest to provide it! So much so it's have them buy-out Easynet LLU and change to a different method of delivery (not via satellite).

Sky+ is pretty good (from what I hear) but, alot of their Sky+ boxes are dogged by problems (as reported by countless of Sky+ users at other sources).

I have similar set-up to Sky+ but, on NTL, as I have my usual DSTB and a DVD recorder.

Personally, I'd rather have them seperate instead of all-in-one.

The draw to VoD is you don't have to record everything and fill-up your recorders hard drive and or have mountains of DVDs just in case you want to watch it later.

On NTL VoD I watch movies and factual alot, but didn't want to goto the hassle of recording it from weeks/months ago just in case.

If you have foresight and the time to do so then all well and good but, I don't as I work long hours/shifts.

Looking forward to NTLs PVR though ;)

Re: Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!
 

ummm what VOD?