Should they be published in the UK?
 

After they have been printed in a number of European countries, apparently in support of freedom of speech, should the UK follow suit and make a stand?

From the BBC:
In other words, British Muslims are no more tolerant than those elsewhere?

I believe that if we were to show more sensitivity towards one religion than another, then that would be as wrong as showing more insensitivity towards one or another.

BTW - reading further in that article:
What the hell does that mean? No-one is 'gloating' about freedom of speech, they are asserting the right to freedom of speech. Something they can only dream of in most of the countries where the complaints are coming from.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

So should publishing blatantly inflammatory (and in some views insulting) caricatures be allowed under the guise of freedom of speech?
Publishing the cartoons once could be seen as an error of judgement but re-publishing them was just stupid in my view. No religion should be treated an better or worse than others but then again people shouldn't set out to purposefully insult a religious group who have already proven themselves fully prepared to show their displeasure in a very public way.
Tolerance works both ways in religion but for a long time now religion has been one of the major reasons for conflict and war :( You would think that after several thousand years the people of this planet would have learned to live together without looking for a reason to argue or fight.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I'm with Paul. I don't see any point in re-publishing stuff that is inflammatory. However, seeing the reaction, I do feel some people need to grow up and get a grip. So, I don't know really... :shrug:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Insulting caricatures are a very long established art form, and are often just a pictorial expression of opinion. They could only be 'inflammatory' if they were created specifically with a view to cause offence. I don't believe that is the case here.
What? So we now bow to the threat of violence? Next step - give in to terrorists. No way.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I say that we should publish them so that our population can see what the fuss is about.
I am amazed at the strength of the muslim reaction to these. They are treating all the citizens of the countries that the papers are published in as though they all had hand in the publishing of the cartoons.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

They should be published. Anyway, they are all over the internet

Why the ban on portraying Muhammad should also extend to those who don't believe in Islam?

Is a society imaginable in which all bans of all religions are added up?

The Austrians published cartoons of the Queen having sex with Bush , I did not see any boycott of Wiener Schnitzels in this country...

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

So you wouldn't be pleased if Cleese, Palin and the rest were to stand up and announce they were starting work on 'Monty Python's Life of Halim' then?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Maybe not but it seems that part of the Muslim faith believe that it is the case, which is the big problem here.
Did I say we should bow down to violence? I believe I said that people shouldn't set out to purposefully insult a religious group.
Personally I believe as Ramrod in that a certain amount of over reaction has occured in certain countries but I do not believe that after complaints were received they paper was right to re-publish the entire set in a double page spread.
In my opinion it is time that a lot of religious groups around the world grew up and faced the reality of global communication and global broadcasting. You are not always going to agree with everything that is said, you are not always going to be happy with everything that happens and you are not always going to accept other views and opinions that are voiced/ published.
Like I said in my previous post, "tolerance works both ways", trouble is it will not work unless all groups start tolerating each other instead of just certain groups demanding tolerance from everyone else.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

There are plenty of people who find page 3 offensive. Should that be banned?

Same with portrayals of homosexuality on TV, images of drug taking etc.

I find it ludicrious the BBC can show British soldiers being blown up in Iraq and then interview the guy who created the site while he justifies it but when they show the images for the briefest second on the news they get a mob protesting outside television centre.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Never seen the original "Life of" film I am ashamed to say :( So I can't actually comment.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I am also disappointed that the reaction seems to be disproportionate to the 'insult'. Someone pointed out the irony of threatening to bomb countries in retaliation for the caricature of a Muslim with a bomb on his head.

I think the view of massed protestors burning flags & calling for blood is losing something when it happens for something so trivial.

- obviously 'trivial' is my perception, and not intended to belittle the teachings of Islam regarding imagery, but I do think a sense of proportion needs to prevail.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

It would appear that someone has been embelishing the facts to stir up anti western hatred :dozey:



Interesting reading

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Darn, you got in before my edit ... I changed it to 'Life of Halim' (random Arabic name) because of course the original film is not 'Life of Jesus'. It's about a poor Jewish bloke who is taken to be the messiah and can't convince the people otherwise no matter how hard he tries. Jesus actually gets a cameo in the film, he's in the background of one scene conducting the Sermon on the Mount. They don't satirise him directly though.

What they do do, however, is finish the film with Brian getting crucified and singing 'Always look on the bright side of life'. Although it's not Jesus' crucifixion, a great many Christians have been offended by this, believing it to be disrespectful of the very core of their faith. That didn't prevent any cinema screening it though (or any of the TV stations that have screened it since).

Now, we have a situation where a cartoon is satirising Mohammed, the very core of the faith of Islam, and it is argued that it is not to be published because it's offensive. Forgive me if I see double standards here.

By the way, anyone who hasn't seen the cartoon, you can get a good look by doing a Google image search for 'Danish mohammed cartoon'. It's currently the second result, with the heading 'Uriasposten'. I am not linking to it directly in case some lunatic decides to declare a fatwa on CF.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Fatwa? *imagines crowds of muslim extremists burning ethernet and modem cables in street* ;)

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

;) :D

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

another one

Mod edit (Chris T): Please do not link to any cartoons for the time being. The team is considering what CF's position on this should be.

No problemo!
MC

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Well, you know we have moved our server from the US to Germany, and a German paper published the cartoon ... guilt by association and all that. Remember a Palestinian mob descended on the EU building in Gaza (or West Bank?) waving Kalashnikovs.

In fact it's come a little closer to home now. Apparently some BBC TV news bulletins showed it (albeit briefly) last night, prompting a demo by about 60 masked Al Mujahiroon nutters at the front gates of TV Centre. It's odd that they have totally failed to grasp that by kicking up such a furore, they have made the cartoon a news item in its own right. Left alone, it would never have amounted to anything more than the editorial opinion of a Danish newspaper. Now it's a global news story, of course it's going to start appearing elsewhere.

I predict it will have been in more than one UK newspaper before next Monday morning.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Bloody hope so! We still have freedom of speech here (and a highly developed sense of humour and satire) :D

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Yes. I'll remind you:

Quote:

but then again people shouldn't set out to purposefully insult a religious group who have already proven themselves fully prepared to show their displeasure in a very public way.

---------- Post added at 10:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 ----------

Which must mean that the original 12 cartoons weren't actually insutling enough to cause outrage?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

A little premature there Chris, we haven't moved yet. :D

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

But Jesus was not the only person to have ever been crucified by the Romans, so a crucifixion, of itself, is not disrespectful. It was just another case of someone taking offence without just cause.

---------- Post added at 10:28 ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 ----------

If by then the editors can still figure out which of the 100's of variations were actually published originally, and which have since been added to the 'pool' for added impact.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

<offtopic>

Gah, I shouldn't bother reading the technical threads in the admin area ... :spin: Email has moved though hasn't it?

</offtopic>

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

[QUOTE=ScaredWebWarrior]Yes. I'll remind you:

Quote:

but then again people shouldn't set out to purposefully insult a religious group who have already proven themselves fully prepared to show their displeasure in a very public way.

Strange that but I still cannot see where I said we should bow down to violence?? Must be these glasses :dozey:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Indeed. And I am not one of the Christians who took offence to the film (in fact I attended a screening of it that was held as a fundraiser for Christian Aid week while I was at university). The Pythons said they were having a go at organised religion, and TBH I think the film does that very well. As I said, the one actual brief appearance of Jesus in the film doesn't send him up at all. It does send up some of the people standing at the back of the crowd listening to him though.

That's not to say I think people don't have the right to take offence at something. My main beef is still the way they are expressing it. As others have already said, reacting to a cartoon of Mohammed with a bomb on his head by turning up outside an EU building waving a machine gun has a certain (entirely unintended I'm sure) irony about it.

Outraged of Gaza has totally failed to understand that if you want to counter something, you need to do it by laying out your reasoning, not by burning flags and threatening to blow people up. The tragedy is, the Islamic world was not always like this. In Our Time on R4 yesterday morning had a very interesting discussion about the Abbasid Caliphate. It's well worth a listen if you have 45 minutes to spare: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The plot thickens...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4675462.stm

Where is the mass outrage over a paper in a muslim country publishing the photos? Or is this just not being reported?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I don't know, it actually sounds like they are being marginally more intelligent about their protests in Indonesia, reserving their ire for the Danes for inventing the cartoons, rather than putting the boot in to any organisation that reports on the story.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I agree it appears more intelligent, but it also appears rather selective, thus making one question the sincerity of the reasoning behind the protestors...

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Sincerity is a good point. PM interviewed a Guardian cartoonist on Wednesday who discussed people who use taking offence as a weapon to squash opinions they don't like. There is definitely a lot of that going on here.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I remember Christians being told to "calm down dear, it's only a film" back in 1988 when "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out.

Wonder why so many Muslims are unable to follow suit?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Publish and be damned.

Has everyone actually seen any of them.????

Mod Edit (Chris T): I said DON'T. We have not decided yet, we are deciding what to do, same as ever newspaper in the UK is deciding what to do. If/when we decide to allow links, we will say so in this thread.

It's pathetic that we even consider not publishing. The representation of God and Jesus has adorned thousands of cartoons much worse that any of these.

Most of then cartoons don't even reference the prophet mohammed they could be a depiction of any middle eastern islamic man.

and the one that clearly depicts mohammed is quite funny, about the suicide bombers (I assume that's what they are) arriving at heaven only to be told they've ran out of virgins.

Why do we always bow down to pressure from activist muslim groups. I bet the average muslim doesn't care a toss

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

IMO it's an issue of respect, pure and simple.

I've said as much many times before on these forums...

A right to something (free speech) is all well and good, but exercising that right is a choice, not an obligation.

I can't say that these people should not have created/published the cartoons, but I think is was a disrespectful thing to do.

Respect is a forgotten and largely shunned character trait these days, unfortunatly.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Well IMO that makes this site as spineless, scared and compliant as every other form of media.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

No, it makes us responsible for weighing up the arguments of freedom of speech against gratuitous offence first. How about you hold on to your condemnation until we've actually made a decision?

Laying into the team for considering the issue properly is as stupid as the extremist nut jobs who can't separate reporting on an issue from supporting it.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The Guardian is thinking about it

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/organgri...o_publish.html

The guys here need time too

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

No ones asking anyone to publish the cartoons on this site, it was only a link to another site.

How can anyone on here expect to have an informed opinion about it if they don't know what these drawings are.

Have you seen the drawings?? I'm sure you have. Do you find them offensive -I know you're not a muslim but I'm sure you have seen cartoons depicting Christ possibly rediculing him. Would you stop them from being published.

Are muslims offended by any depiction of Mohammed.

In fact I would welcome a muslim on this site to advise which cartoons they find offensive and advise why because I can't see it.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Of course I've seen them ... I went googling days ago, when this first blew up. I posted above a search string that will reveal the cartoons. What we have to consider here is that this is a Cable user support forum, and is it worth the site getting DOSed by Islamist nut-cases for the sake of a cartoon that has nothing to do with the aims of the site. We may well decide it's no big risk at all.

I have no idea whether I'd find the cartoons offensive if I were a muslim, but I have seen stuff that offends me as a Christian, and some of it, if it were posted here, I would ask the team to remove as I would find it gratuitously offensive. Thankfully I think any of that sort of stuff falls outside the 'family friendly' policy of this site anyway so it's possibly not a good analogy.

I do pick and choose the websites/forums I visit though. It's easier to simply walk away than to start a fight you can't win. All the Islamists have achieved here is to give worldwide notoriety to something that few would ever have heard of otherwise.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

And this is what people seem to be forgetting here.

If I exercised the right of freedom of speach to walk up to someone and start slagging of their mother or sister, calling her a whore etc etc I would more than likely get a violent response. The problem here is that people are disregarding how much love and to what a level of esteem muslims hold the Prophet Muhammed in. Freedom of speech is one think, but applying it to cause offence (and not for one minute do I think the editors did not think they were going to cause offence) is just being the catalyst for ongoing problems.

Also the fact that the news shows muslims in certain parts of the world burning danish flags, newspapers, issuing death threats does not mean that this is how the majority of muslims in the world are acting over this (as some posts are trying to insinuate here). Yes the majority of muslims will be offended, but has anyone seen a muslim in london walking around burning a flag or shouting out "Death to the Danes". Most of the ones I know are actually sending in their opinions via letters to editors and text polls and petitions.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

There were outside the BBC this morning for daring to show it for a few seconds.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Ok, so I didnt see them, but dont you agree this is in a minority?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Unfortunate choice of words but I suspect deliberate :p:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Yes, it's a minority, but sadly it's a minority that has proven itself capable of causing death and mayhem on our own streets. The attention they are getting is sadly justified. :(

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

'Here' being where, exactly? ;)

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

In the situation under discussion, naturally. :)

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Fair enough, but you've now been allowed to put in a link to a site that states quite clearly that IT has links to sites that have the cartoons.

I think there is a difference, in the case of CF, between debating actually publishing the cartoons, or allowing links to them. It seems as if first-hand links are not allowed, but second hand ones are? That is just silly.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

You sure about that?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

For goodness sake ...

these are precisely the issues we are in the middle of discussing right now.

Could everyone please stop trying to pick holes in a policy that has not even been written yet. All we're asking you to do is not post links while we reach a decision!

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

From the link above:
---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------

As are we, and we're offering our point of view on the issue.

I was not criticising an as yet undecided policy. Merely pointing out that whether a link links directly or indirectly makes no difference.

Supplying the appropriate Google keywords and then indicating which result is relevent is just the same as posting either the Google link to the results page or even simply to post the link to the target website.

To even debate that issue is being overly sensitive about the issue - debating whether to publish the cartoons themselves would be a completely different matter.
Considering the nature of CF, I would soon decide that is probably not appropriate.

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

The BBC have a short article that explains it pretty well here.

Interestingly, from that:
Which makes me wonder why we haven't heard an outcry from them before...

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I will tell you one thing, whatever god it is they worship, he dosent like his pilgrims.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

It seems quite clear to me that Islam faith and many muslim have proven themselves to be very childish, immature. Unable to handle this trivial issue in an adult manner. No they'd rather surround the EU in Gaza with gunmen and storm embassys.

What Islam has to understand is that Islamic tradition may well ban depictions of the Prophet or Allah. But the whole world is not Islamic and other parts of the world are free to print or say what they like as long as, in this country anyway, they are not inciting racial or religious hatred.

Which these cartoons are not.

You didn't get any of this over the "Divinci Code" some would say that was even more blasphemous that any of this.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Didn't a nun turn up at the filming and ask the director to stop making it?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Yes, I think one did. But from memory she wasn't packing.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Don't get me wrong the book was frowned upon, but nothing like this kind of scale.

I think they just need to get over it and move on.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

:rofl:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

You mean the ferry sinking.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

It's not 'easy' at all - and as Chris T has said a few times in this thread, the team will let you know what our collective position is on this.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

surely it's just a bunch of extremists who are reacting in a violent way? the majority of the rest are or could be offended but will show their displeasure peacefully.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

As both Google and Wikipedia both provide very easy means to view these images, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Amongst other disasters.. But it think the ferry thing didnt contain any pilgrims.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

(from the link posted by SWW)

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

well problem solved then - no need to publish them here and risk offending people's religious beliefs as anyone reading this thread knows where to find reference material.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

It's a question of principle. And the principle here is about freedom of speech, and about not having to live in fear of intimidation/violence as a result of exercising free speech.

---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:11 ----------

Not really. It merely means that those who oppose the freedom of speech with violent protest are thereby allowed to win.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

and what about those who dont oppose freedom of speach but take offence at their religion being attacked by what they consider offensive cartoons?

if you publish to defy the extremists when you wouldn't have published if there were no extremists then the extremists have influenced you!

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think that is why there is more debate on this in the UK, instead of simply publishing. That is, I think, a direct response to the way protest has been handled, on the whole.

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

If that isn't incitement to hatred, I don't know what is.

Never mind the sensitivities - move in with plenty of police and arrest them all.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Seeing as the literal rendering of the Arabic word 'islam' in English is 'peace', it seems very odd that they are standing there with banners that say 'massacre those who insult peace!'

I doubt the irony has occurred to them though. :(

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

bloody hell :disturbd:

sky report on London demonstrations...

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...501917,00.html

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Looks like they got tanked up on religious fervour at Friday prayers before taking to the streets. I'd have loved to hear what the Imams were telling them.

I have no time for people who have such utter contempt for the rights, freedoms and traditions of this country. The content of some of those placards is extremely offensive and frankly I think anyone carrying one of them should be investigated by Immigration. Any of that lot who are not British citizens should be on the next boat out of here. If they want to overthrow our way of life they can do it from the comfort of whichever liberal, free democracy they came from.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I am normally very hesitant to call for such measures, but I have to say I am deeply disturbed by this. :(

The sad thing as well is that these people are not doing their fellow muslims, the large majority of which I'm sure, disapprove of this form of protest no favours at all.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

It does make one wonder...

Never mind that, because I'm less concerned that any non-British be expelled than I am interested to see the law being applied even-handedly. Yet, I suspect the police won't act (they'd probably say to avoid further violence) in this case.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Yes, I should add that anyone who is a British citizen should be subject to the full force of whatever lncitement laws have actually made it onto the statute book. But anyone who is here as our guest ... well they can collect their coat on the way out as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

AFTER they've felt the weighty arm of the law upon them, and served their time, THEN they can be returned their coat and a one-way ticket to wherever they came from.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Sadly that view will be shared by many watching this from the sidelines. Not that I disagree, it is sad because it seems the protestors have no idea of how inappropriate their actions are in comparison to the western perception of the 'crime' against their faith.

As has been said, if, rather than 'death to the infidel' the Muslim community had ignored the offensive publications, or protested more appropriately, we would think a lot more of them.

Ironic that when they hurl abuse at the right to free speech they avail themselves of that very right :(

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The imam at my local mosque didnt inicite anyone to march to Beeb headquarters waving placards.

Having seen the pictures my self there is one that is pretty offending, and that's the one with Muhammed wearing a turban with the bomb. I didnt quite get the rest as some of the accompanying texts weren't in English. Im a 'moderate' muslim, wouldnt class myself as a 'fanatic' and I have demonstrated my displeasure through different channels.
In today's times where terrorism and Islam are being so closely linked together I do find it irresponsible for someone to publish such an image knowing that it will re-inforce people's beliefs that all muslims are terrorists and that is what the Prophet promoted. Additionally knowing the anger it has already promoted what has the BBC or anyone else got to gain by publishing them again, other than adding more feul to the fire.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

With all respect, (I largely agree with what you posted), the idiots (sorry, I have no other word for it) demonstrating with placards as were mentioned are the ones that are behaving irresponsibly and add fuel to the fire.

In the light of these people, I find myself leaning towards being in favour of publishing the cartoons just to show we take freedom of speech seriously

Edit: I believe this is what is known as a lose-lose situation :(

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I thought the 'we're running out of virgins' one was quite amusing. I didn't infer that the chap at the gates was anyone in particular, so I don't see the problem with that one.

I still haven't seen the full set as published - the 'bomb head' one wouldn't be a problem unless someone specifically stated that the image was supposed to represent Mohammed. Which wouldn't be necessary to make the point, really.

---------- Post added at 15:54 ---------- Previous post was at 15:49 ----------

I think it is quite clear that the broader publication of the cartoons around Europe was indeed in response to the fire with which they were being attacked.
Yup. ASAP.
I do believe you're right there.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I'm glad to hear it - and just to be absolutely clear, I did say I wondered what the Imams were telling them (i.e. the banner-waving nutters), meaning to imply that some, not all, were possibly involved in inciting this 'demonstration'.

The BBC has nothing to gain. What the BBC is doing is what any responsible news organisation in a free democracy has a duty to do. A story has blown up and has gained worldwide significance. They simply must report on that story in a way that is meaningful. It seems utterly incomprehensible that a report about an image should not include the image, unless that image was illegal - which it is not. The BBC has gone to some lengths to be sensitive, choosing only to show the cartoon briefly, as printed in the relevant newspapers, and not flashing it directly up on screen, so as to ensure the report is set in proper context.

I say again, the people who have made it an international splash are the idiots who are rampaging around the world's capitals waving banners and calling for bombs to rain on Europe. They have turned this into a story and the reporting of that story is an inevitable consequence. What frustrates me most of all is that these people are blinded by their cause, they will probably never understand their role in this.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I don't think anyone denies the cartoons were offensive, and your point about re-publishing them, is moot. Perhaps we (as in non Muslims) don't understand the depth of feeling the images invoke, but neither can we condone a reaction calling for deaths, because of them.

The banner saying 'Europe Your 9/11 will come' was a particular example - can you understand how we don't find that to be an appropriate response to something, while admittedly offensive, was intended to be humour? Thousands of deaths because of a few pictures, sorry, that is not right and human life should not be held so cheap.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think the whole reason behind the offence being caused is taht they are all supposed to be of Muhammed. In reference to the 'running out of virgins' one, if this wasn't supposed to be a caricture of the prophet I wouldn't be as offended as I am now, if offended at all. Similarly with the 'bomb head' one if that was a cartoon of any other muslim it wouldnt offend me, nor suprise me that thats what people think of muslims. But the fact iits supposed to be the prophet is where the offence lies.

On a note of Freedom of speech, is it neccessary to offend so many people just to demonstrate that we have freedom of speech. I firmly believe in freedom of speech, but I wouldnt call anyone's mum a slag just because Im entitled to.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I agree with you, and I think any paper that publishes the cartoons just because it can is abusing its power. I don't think that is what the BBC has done though.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

That banner text was in every way as offensive to OUR value system as the cartoons have been to theirs.
Please, do not apologise for speaking the truth.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I donot agree with the reactions being witnessed at all. Additionally with the Salman Rushdie episode burning the books and the British flag was not an action which was agreeable to the majority of the muslims in the UK. Unfortunately there will always be a minority of idiots that take matters to an extreme beyond comprehension (eg london bombings), but thats not representative of teh whole muslim faith. The sad think is that people actually belive or want to believe that it is, and people who know better promote the same view about Islam.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I have to say that I have seen (thankfully) very little of that attitude on this thread (in fact, I myself have made a point of stating that is not my view). I do believe however, that these demonstrators are guilty of encouraging that view.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

However, I think that the offence taken is far in excess of anything reasonable.

If I stood up in church and shouted some blasphemy, I would get some tut-tutting, disapproving looks, and maybe asked to leave. But no screaming, banner waving or bloodlust.

I don't care how holy Muslims think they are (and I do believe plenty of them are of the 'holier than thou' variety), the level and type of protest is utterly and completely and insanely disproportionate.

I even think that letters and petitions to the Danish embassy are excessive, but at least it's peaceful protest.
You're not entitled to. That could be considered slander.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The way I see it is this, at the end of the day it I dont care if the pictures are published or not. While a lot of muslims do, so why bother insulting all of them when it really is not that important

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

So it would be ok to draw a picture of a woman wearing a miniskirt, giving someone a bj on a street corner, wrote "oh thats <so and so's mum> " under it and put it in the paper?

freedom of speech or insulting? You decide. I know that if someone did that with my mum's name on it I'd knock em out.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Everytime something comes up with Muslims on the news why do some people keep on saying itââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s just a minority. Check the news and the papers look whatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s happening around the world. It certainly doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t look like a minority and those in London today should be arrested but we all know the police wont touch them because there Muslim

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1376522.jpg

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Look, I'm not a FoS lawyer - it may be legal. Just look at what the cartoonists do.
Probably both. I accept that FoS sometimes allows things to be published that maybe would be better off not published. I also accept that in order to maintain FoS, that is the cost we have to pay.

The alternative is the 1984 scenario - no thanks.
And then YOU will be the one that ends up in court. There are other ways...

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Im sure if you counted the number of protestors and divided that into the total muslim wordwide population, and then multiplied the answer by 100 it would be less than 50%. Id be suprised if its ver 10%. Sorry to bring it down to this level of intelligence but I had to come down to meet yours.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I don't know, is it a minority or isn't it? How many Muslims in the UK, and how many are carrying banners? Do we count the ones that silently support the 'minority' as part of the minority or not? How can we tell the silent minority from the peaceful 'majority'?
I got as far as thinking precisely that, but opted not to publish. I believe that is why no arrests have as yet been made. I think that is wrong.

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:28 ----------

Tut-tut.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

thankyou, your posts regarding this & previous issues are excellent counterpoint to the actions of the protestors we have seen. I entirely accept that this is the action of a minority & unrepresentative of most Muslims. I just wish they could see beyond the fervour & see the damage they are doing on behalf of their more rational brothers.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Actually as muslims, they stand a far better chance of being stopped under Section 44 of the Terrorism act. Especially if they have beards.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

intelligence wow well thats something not allot of those people seem to have is it. we all know Islamic papers have printed cartoons mocking the west, christians & other faiths but one paper over here prints a bloody cartoon and people start protesting and threatening to kill people :rolleyes: ?

Europe has had its fair problems in the past over religion but we've grown its just a bloody shame now we seem to have to go through it all over again thanks to Islam

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Could we please try and keep this debate civilised, like it has been for most of today?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Frankly if anyone had had an iota of common sense in the Danish press and other countries media they would have remembered the furore about Islamic writing being used on fashion items and would have realised just how protective Islam is about imagery.I've known for 30 odd years that I should NEVER ask a muslim child to draw a representational picture of animals or humans for art or any other subject.The only art I've ever been able to ask for is pattern work or calligraphy.A little bit of thought could have saved all this aggravation.Now Danish firms are going to lose out big time due to this.Lurpak have already fallen to this and there will be job losses over it.:(

The problem is that the press have got rather too big for their own good and think that they can do and say just what they like in the name of freedom because ordinary people can have no comeback unless they have plenty of money to take a newspaper to court for libellous statements or articles.They think just because they can make or break a government that they do not have to consider certain basic moral and ethical rules. :(

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

We CCTV and we have photos of these "protestors"

Unfortunately they have gone beyond the boundary of free speech and some of their placards and banners are inciting racial and religious hatred.

I would expect the police to exercise the powers that have just been granted to arrest and charge these people.

Will they? of course not.

Because like it or not that law was only brought in to arrest those that spoke out against and opposed Islam - not the other way around.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

They can't do anything under the new bill because (I think) it has not had Royal assent yet, so is not yet law.
Part of the reason for the new bill was to afford Islam the same protection already enjoyed by other religions.

Clearly they want more than that.

Of course, under this new legislation the cartoons would probably still be legal, but the banners would not.

---------- Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 17:10 ----------

Makes one wonder how a Muslim becomes a doctor...

I find the attitude towards images, which appears to be more Hadith than Koran, rather bizarre. And a shame that it means that artful expression is stifled.

I cannot help but believe that a religion that is so prescriptive and restrictive is more of a burden to people than any kind of help. It clearly confuses their ideas of right & wrong, otherwise we wouldn't be watching the scenes of violent protest.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

They already have it police wont touch them and no one seems surprised (wonder why) even before this Muslims have protested about other things and been seen burning the Union Jack in public.

On another point I found all the anti EU banners interesting. If they hate the west and the Eu so much they the hell are they here :erm: