Respect.....!
 

Maybe we'll see him in a shell suit, a goatii and bling bling at the next Question Time

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4595788.stm

Re: Respect.....!
 

This seems a lot more effectine that the stupid alarm topic. Target the problem with harsh penalitys. If yous kids are bullying and tourmenting people then the parents will be made to get a grip or else, if they still persist then bye bye house

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Another attention grabbing headline.

Betcha all the tough measures get watered down and challenged as being against their human rights and we get no-where near tackling the root causes.

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David Cameron's view is much more realistic, in my opinion

Tony Bliar is doing his usual trick of trying to con us with a sound byte - remember "tough on crime & tough on the causes of crime"

When our society has broken down to the extent that gangs of youths phone the police & fire brigade, just so they can fire air rifles & throw stones at them, it will take more than a 'parenting academy' to sort out :(

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Well said. :tu:

You can bet Human Rights arguments are used dam fast to stop this happening.

Re: Respect.....!
 

Man-of-the-people Dave 'Big C' Cameron writes at length in the grauniad...

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comme...682921,00.html

He talks about 'social entrepreneurs', whatever they are (how do they differ from normal 'entrepreneurs' who the Tories have always bent over backwards to help shaft us?). I'm not sure why reducing regulation on business will stop kids graffitiing the street. Proper investment in housing might. Like most of Dave C's stuff it's Thatcherism thinly disguised as populist caring and sharing.

I note with hilarity the mention of truancy in the 'respect' agenda - Blair and co. have spent £1bn on truancy so far* and have made absolutely no difference, apart from wasting police time (which is an offence unless you're the Home Office) harassing children who have a legitimate reason to be out of school.

I confidently expect this charade of glib gimmicks, already announced programmes and Tony giving us his 'hard' look will make not an iota of difference, except that the prison population will continue to climb (already the highest in Europe - that's what tough penalties gets you) and shrill tabloid headlines without any substance will continue to dictate Home Office policy. Waste of space, the lot of them.

*http://education.guardian.co.uk/trua...563512,00.html

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Anyway how will they enforce 'parent camp' to 'teach' those parents who have troublesome/nuisance kids. are we going to be paying for their loss of earnings?

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Why do I get the feeling Hazel "toy guns are bad" Blears is behind this?

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how many times has Blair announced a clampdown on yobs etc?

I heard on the news yesterday a group of 30 yobs beat the crap out of a 60 year old man in Heald Green (nr Stockport).

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Begging your pardon, but if your objections in the 'stupid alarm topic' were that it unfairly targets the innocent, then how on earth can you support a measure that would see a family sent away due to the behaviour of just one of them? How is that fair on, for example, a well-behaved younger sister?

At least be consistent in what you're saying, eh? :confused:

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all wind and p*ss

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tbh I am not too keen on them being kicked out of a house but this would be last resort type stuff.

I think the parents have a collective responsiblity and that cannot be said of an age group.

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we've got a 12 year old in our street he's on an asbo it hasn't stopped him smashing residents windows damaging cars abusing people etc etc.
and his parents can't stop him.
if the tenants association were to kick him and his family out no one in our street would shed a tear.
sometimes you've got to experience the aggro to realise kicking them out is the best policy.one rotten yob can ruin a street and make people lives a misery.

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Watered down to the point of non-existence and we will end up yet again with the people breaking the law etc having more rights than the people they are terrorising.

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Quite right. The same with the truanting management. I know that mostly the issue there was parents not giving a stuff about their kids being out of school, but to punish the whole family (i.e. siblings etc.) for the sins of one child and/or the failings of a parent are hardly doing anything for families.

But it was a cheap way to get attention and joe average thought it was fair enough - since it wasn't going to affect him.

The same is true of all the wishy-washy ideas that the government puts forward for dealing with these social problems.

It would never occur to them to think that perhaps it is they who have created the social climate that gave rise to these problems in the first place...

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A group of you should grab him, shake him around and threaten him with broken bones when no ones's watching. put the fear of god (or anything else ) in him and I bet he stops being a nuisance for much longer.

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we've tried that.he just comes back when its dark and smashes your windows or damages your car.
and its no good calling the police all they want is witnesses and proof(its your word against his).

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So they can cause trouble and terrorise somewhere else?

If someone has a trouble child like that, what can they do? You have to send them to school, but you have no way of keeping them there, even if you can be sure they got there. You can try keeping them inside - but in some cases probably only if you chain/lock them up - and then Social Services would be only too pleased to give you grief over child cruelty.

So ultimately, these parents maybe just don't know what to do, and they certainly have no-one to turn to for sympathetic help.

Granted, some of these parents and their offspring need locking up, for everyone's benefit, however there is no provision for this in law, and even if there was I'm sure the European Court wouldn't waste much time dealing with their loss of Human Rights. They're not quite so fast to stand up for everyone else's though...

The answer to the problem? I'm damned if I know - within the social/legal framework we have today there is nothing that can legally be done to deal with the issue in a way that doesn't just move it around.

---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ----------

Since most 12yo's think they're beyond the law and furthermore completely invincible, I think you'll find that you'll have to do more than just threaten to dissuade him.

At that point you'd be no better than the **** you're dealing with.

Re: Respect.....!
 

have you ever lived in a street of fear,night after night having to keep watch on your house and car,members of your family verbally abused every time they walk down the street.
i bet if you did you'd soon change your mind about them being kicked out of there house.

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------

[quote=ScaredWebWarrior]So they can cause trouble and terrorise somewhere else?

at least it would give us decent residents some peace.this little s*ds been at it since he was 4 yrs old shouting at women in the street show us your t*ts and things like that,and his dad just stands there laughing.
as i said before if they were to kick this family out no one in our street would shed a tear.

Re: Respect.....!
 

Whilst I agree I would definately not want to live with someone like that on my street, moving them does not solve the problem, obviously it solves the localised problem, but the child will continue his traits somewhere else.

Im not too interested in the punishments (as I believe throwing someone like this out of their house will in most cases not alter their behaivour) and there are genuinely decent parents who cannot control their children - how will throwing them out of their homes help them to better control their children?

But I like the idea of parenting classes, though I'm not sure how well these will be implemented, and how they will make people go - as surely it will be 'against their human rights' to make education in parenting compulsory :rolleyes:

As far as Im concerned the parenting classes would provide a permanent solution (in the majority of cases) if they could change the attitudes of the parents, and equip them to better control their children - so I'm not too sure what Cameron is banging on about.

Re: Respect.....!
 

A group of you should grab him, shake him around and threaten him with broken bones when no ones's watching. put the fear of god (or anything else ) in him and I bet he stops being a nuisance for much longer.

The problem with threatening people is unless they know that you mean it, its just words and it will carry on you need to make the little b'stard realise that its going to cause him more trouble, than its worth to smash your windows.

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only if the parents want to change.

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Only if the parents have time to go - what with full time work for both myself and my partner and a toddler to look after there's naff all time to spare for keeping a relationship going, let alone hoiking us all along to some class or other. The idea of parenting classes seems to come from some middle-class ideal where the parents can afford some spare time - a lot of us can't, with house prices and the cost of living meaning two jobs are a necessity.

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I wonder whether Blair had this in mind when he unveiled his latest scheme.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

I'm sorry, but I can't help thinking of this every time I read the thread title. :disturbd:

Re: Respect.....!
 

An unfunny, laughable, two-dimensional caricature who's obsessed with US gun culture? Comes to mind whenever I think of Blair, too.

Aiii

My reading today will be the twenty pages that go to make up this 'Respect Agenda'. If anyone wants to join me it's on
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-file...ction_plan.pdf

There's a small prize on offer to whoever spots the most references to 'ordinary|decent|law-abiding' people...

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It was meant to....just call me Derren Brown...

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I would but my boss gets a bit narky if you fall asleep at your desk.

Betcha you have to take your socks and shoes off to count up the references. I did like how he said he wanted things to be more like Glasgow in the 1930's

Hmmm. Not if the memories of my grandparents and elderly relatives is anything to go by.

Re: Respect.....!
 

Absolutely right! Why should the entire family suffer? I accept that there are parents who really don't give a monkeys, but there are also parents who try their very best to 'control' their kids, but get nowhere. Would you see them all on the streets then?


Just out of curiosity, if this family were 'kicked out' (or any family for that matter), would you pay their mortgage? What about their Council Tax?

If this lad's been doing this for 8 years, why haven't you done something about it? You say that the police want proof, and that it's your word against his - I'm sure that broken car windows would count as proof and, if you're all so sick of this family, why doesn't the rest of the street come forward as witnesses? It's no use bemoaning your lot if you're not willing to take action to sort it out.

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Also here:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/scottis..._modern2.shtml

Great, I can't wait for Blair to get started. :disturbd:

Re: Respect.....!
 

It is US as a society who have abdicated all our responsibilities..We won't get involved out on the street,we would rather walk by on the other side rather than speak out.When someone does stand up to anti-social behaviour we should be backing them up but we are more likely to think that it's none of our business and leave them to it.We outnumber the yobs but we think that we shouldn't do more than complain.How many of us simply don't report any anti-social behaviour with the excuse that the police won't do anything.Yes if it's the same face over and over they may not but it 20,30,40,50 or more complain about the same problem individually then the police WILL HAVE to respond.It is us who have given up.It's time for communities to BE communities.I'm not talking vigilante I'm talking about reporting everything when it happens to the relevant authorities and to keep doing it.Do it as a neighbourhood even if it means attending lots of tedious meetings.

The trouble is that it became a sin to be a busybody and curtain twitcher.However it should be a matter of pride to be such and report suspicious and yobbish behaviour on our streets.Also I think our reliance on CCTV hasn't helped.It means that we think others will be looking and doing something about it and we don't act when we should.

It's not the government or the local council or the police it is US as a whole who need to work together as a united society to tackle such behaviour.

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:clap:

Well said Coggy - top post :tu:

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Shh - he said the 's' word. Mr. Tony doesn't like communities acting unilaterally* and 'social' things in case someone starts waving red flags and reminding him of the Past (which he likes to redefine, starting with the gang violence of poverty stricken Glasgow during the Depression).

The key point about many things Blair has done is that power (mainly in the form of money, of course, without which nothing gets done) has been taken *away* from local communities and given either to Whitehall, increasingly direct to the Number Ten Policy Unit (prop. A. Blair) or to private companies, often offshore, privately owned by venture capitalists and totally unaccountable. Thus, even if you want to get involved, you'll find the levers of local democracy have been snapped off *deliberately* over the last 25 years of Thatcherite centralism (see ILEA, GLC, local government reforms, NHS Trusts, foundation hospitals, Academy Schools etc.). There's naff all about that in these half-baked, rehashed 'action points'.

The recent Education White Paper is also relevant here, since that continues the process of taking schools out of local authority control and giving them to an unholy alliance of businessmen and central government bureaucrats. Which is a bad idea, in case you hadn't guessed.

*While being bang alongside the idea of the USA acting unilaterally, of course.