The slow march of the PC plodders
 

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Discuss (nicely) :D

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

SkyNews had a similar article yesterday...

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...207634,00.html

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Yep, you are either -ist or -phobic. I have always thought it a pernicious tactic to misrepresent someone's view of something as a 'fear' of it.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Indeed

There was a gentleman from India on telly yesterday. He was saying how upset he was because people were scared of saying anything to him that might be deemed offencive.People would not mention Christmas near him as the PC brigade had deemed it offence for people of his religion ?. His point let him decide what is offence not someone who has not even met him. :tu:

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Exactly!

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

I found this especially disturbing:
If thats true the people responsible should be sacked....

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

A lot of the time however the examples of Political Correctness is misrepresented so the newspapers can sell more. An example was one that Sky News showed yesterday.

A council called their lights 'Winter Lights' instead of Christmas Lights, of course there was uproar as people complained with increased hatred of a PC world and annoyed that it had been changed to not offending Muslims and so on. When people (admittly few would actual bother) reading the article it was so they could keep the lights up beyond Christmas

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Well, I have to admit that I agree with the article. We (as a nation) ARE too frightened of the "Politically Correct" brigade.
While I don't believe we should all go round being Racist, homophobic bigots (quite the oppoisite in fact), we should not treat people differently because they are a different race or sexual persuasion. This, to me, is wrong, regardless of the excuse.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Oh Buddha, please let's not go there again ... :disturbd: :D

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

This argument is a hot favourite with anyone who thinks (or prefers to think) that PC isn't a divisive force in our society.

What are we to do, assume that ALL examples of PC are a misrepresentation? Or are we going to pick and choose - we'll assume the ones that show PC as evil are false, and anything else must then be true?

BTW - I have still to see an example where PC is a benefit to society...

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

No, The Term PC has been Hijacked. It is basically ensuring equal treatment not using offensive words for discribe minority groups. You do not have to go back far to find examples where racsit lanuage is used in programs.

Words like 'Pakki' and 'Nigger' where used a lot and now they are not allowed. Postive example number one! The reason you havent seen a positive example is because the term is now applyed to only negitive examples while positive examples go ignored ( A story about someone being sacked for racist abuse isnt a good story, but christmas under attack is!)

The reason its so popular a story to run with is because of the racist sub-text. It basicially saying that our current way of life is under attack from these minority groups with stirs a lot of anger

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Agreed.:tu:

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

No, Sorry. This is too far. There are many examples.

PC's idea is too stop sexism and racism but no positive examples of these will ever come up. The principle is a good one and it has stopped some negitive terms from used.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

I'm not even convinced that is an example of PC at work, but it certainly isn't a recent example. To me that's simply the anti-racism legislation at work, which is NOT the same as PC.
Hang on, first you try to sell me the above 'positive example' and now you tell me there aren't any?
You seem to think that PC is a tool for anti-racism and as such a good thing.

To me, that is another argument used to maintain PC and to make it possible for anyone who is against PC (in it's divisive, brain-dead form found today) to be labelled 'racist' by implication.

---------- Post added at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

If there are no positive examples, then it can't be a positive thing, can it?

---------- Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:21 ----------

And apparently any other -ism that anyone cares to invent.

If it ever had such a noble aim, it has now become so perverted that it should be consigned to history.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

There are never any positive examples in the media because they do not sell papers, not negitive storys do. People like bad news.

Also the rest of your posts shows how the term has been Hijacked. to simply apply to negitive storys while others are down to Anti-rascim and so on

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

I believe that the cases where 'pc' ideas have protected people aren't actually cases of political correctness coming to the aid of minorities etc....those are just examples of legislation aiding people.
True pc (imo) is like the example I gave above where polititians didn't like the findings of an investigation because it would upset a section of society so they re-did the investigation to get more politically acceptable results....

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

If you agree the term has been hijacked, then I suggest you think again about defending what a great thing PC is.

Whatever it was, it is now an evil without which our society would work a whole lot better.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

But by attempting to do so it actually escalates some of it.......eg:

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

PC, in theory, is a good thing. In practice, however, it has been hijacked and seems to be being used by people for their own ends.

Take, for example, where I work. A couple of years ago, we employed a new guy. He knew his stuff. However, that is not why he was employed. He was employed by the Uni purely because he had had a row at his previous employers (BA) and cried Racism. IMO, he should have got the job on Skiils, not colour.

Note, I actually think it was a good thing that we did employ him (he was good at the job), but the fact he cried Racism when he got into trouble at work, IMO, cheapens the plight of those who do geniunly suffer racism.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

I agree with damien that is becomes a bit of a semantic game, in that anti-racism is good and pc not, and therefore everything bad is pc.

The wider issue, I think, is that many will agree there is no place for racism/abusive terms where these are clearly seen as abusive by the receiving party. It becomes different when others try to decide what certain groups might consider offensive without consulting these groups first. This has become known as the negative form of PC, and is something that many (including me) object to.

I do agree however, that the media tend to hype these stories, and the practice is not as widespread as some of them might like us to believe.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Actually, I'd argue that the word 'Paki' wasn't originally used in a derogatory manner (at least not where I grew up). Originally, it was used purely as an abbreviation of 'Pakistani' - it's only in (comparatively) recent years that it's taken on the racist connotation.

As for 'Nigger', I seem to remember a thread a while ago that discussed the fact that the black community were, to one degree or another, 'reclaiming' the word, so can it still be seen as racist?

The trouble with 'Political Correctness' is that anyone can use it either as an excuse to do / not do something, or as a stick to beat someone else with when they do / don't do something.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Care to list a few of those examples?

The thing is, I think you are confusing outright terms of abuse with things that some would deem 'non PC'. It may well be non-PC to call a black person a nigger, but we didn't need the bleeding heart brigade to tell us that. The word has been regarded as an insult for my entire lifetime at least (30+ years). AFAIK the term 'political correctness' has only been in the public consciousness for maybe half that time.

Political correctness is not so much about banishing the outright offensive, it is about redefining the innocuous as unacceptable, the Orwellian idea being that if you change the name of something, you change the way people think about it. Thus you get blackboards renamed chalkboards, because we have apparently become so immature as a people that we are not to be trusted at all with any use of the word 'black' as it may be racist.

Once you accept this premise, of course, the logical progression is to find ever more petty examples of things that 'could be' offensive and so ought to be changed. And to return briefly to that example (the fabled winter lights), it may not have been council policy, but IMO it betrayed at least the petty mindset of the person who coined the phrase.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Actually a lot of negitive words where in fact positive at first. In the early days of American words where used which are deemeds offersive now.

By the way the defination of PC is:
A noble aim! In some cases it may have been abused but the core is still good

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

And the problem with that definition is the use of the word 'perceived'. Perceived by whom? For what purpose?

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

exactly, where the 'victim' decides what is acceptable is where the concept of, what is 'PC', breaks down, rather that definition should say 'avoidance of expressions or actions that are intended to exclude etc etc'

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Apparently 'nigger' or 'niggers' is classed as offensive, but 'nigga' or 'niggerz/niggaz' isn't, according to a discussion forum I was reading last month.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Which is weird, considering that, unless it was written down (and dependant on the particular accent used) how would you know if someone said it to you :shrug:

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Whatever it used to be defined as, it has long since become a completely different monster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

And some further searching found http://www.capc.co.uk/ - check out the 'Your Stories' section to see what people think PC is all about.

BTW - if you're the wrong side of 30 you might appreciate: http://www.lauramidgley.com/TO%20ALL...20SURVIVED.doc

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Last year my son was in a fight with an Asian boy at school and when he was asked why it happened his reply was "That Paki lad hit me first." He wasn't being racist, he just didn't know his name and used the first identifiable thing that came into his head! Result.. a weeks suspension for racist remarks. If the shoe was on the other foot and the Asian boy had said "That Brit lad hit me first" nobody would bat an eye lid and why should they? It's only an abreviation.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Thanks

I am going to become a member. :tu: Greeny on its way

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

I think, simply, that Political Correctness has an image problem. It has been associated, especially in the reactionary right wing press, as an attack on free speech, etc. For me I am happy to live in a world where respect and good manners are paramount, which at its core is what PC is all about. Of course there are always going to be examples dug up by certain media elements to show 'political correctness gone mad', but these are only minor indiscretions when compared to the fact that, for example, we live in a culture where public bodies scrutinise themselves and their behaviour (even if common sense does sometimes need to be applied).

It's easy to dismiss much of the good that PC has done, such as helping to banish offensive or insulting words, or even making sure that local authorities provide translated material etc. (I never see that in the paper!), as nothing to do with PC as it 'would have happened anyway due to legislation', but this is to deny the fact that PC has at least had a part in informing the policy makers.

Let's not forget what the aims of true PC are and remember what the world was like before, and of course apply a little common sense.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

It was a term of abuse 30 years ago that I remember. This was in North London.

I've never heard it used otherwise.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

Because 'Brit' isn't a derogatory term.
Yes, Brit is. But since the abbreviated 'paki' has become a term of abuse, it can no longer be considered 'only an abbreviation'.

That said, the suspension sounds like a typical PC response to the situation - it sounds like they didn't bother to do much about the fight once the 'p' word had been uttered. I guess the assumption was made that racism was behind it all.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Well, ultimately, we'll have to agree to disagree 'cos it wasn't used exclusively as a term of abuse in Birmingham 30 years ago :shrug:

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

Same in my area. "Paki" could be merely a descriptive term, or insult, depending on Context.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

The troubles arise when 'jobsworths' use Political Correctness to run their departments with an eye to appeasing another 'senior jobsworth' who uses the yardstick of PC to ascertain who is fit for promotion..

People who frankly are put into positions of power without the ability to really judge character and so rely on a 'ticksheet' to judge someone's suitability for a job or promotion and who are too narrow in outlook as to not see beyond rules and regulations.

Yes Political Correctness has been a good tool but it really shouldn't be the only yardstick on which we run our lives.Common sense should be applied from time to time.Equality of gender and race are important BUT they are not the only aspects to consider when employing someone.Positive discrimination may have it's place in certain industries and business's but frankly I'd rather get somewhere because I fecking well earned it not because I have a vagina.

Re: The slow march of the PC plodders
 

As long as positive discrimination is used sparingly and appropriately, then no issue. But unfortunately that's often not the case.

Right on! with your last sentiment ;) - though in my case I'd be thinking different equipment. lol.