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Graham F 03-11-2003 22:11
Good or bad
 
I don't seem to be able to find this discussed anywhere so here goes.

What do you all make of ntl's preliminary results for Q3 2003

http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/press/pdf/2003Q3.pdf

On the surface they certainly look good and is a positive step forward for the company. What does everyone else think?

Richard M 03-11-2003 22:20
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
I don't seem to be able to find this discussed anywhere so here goes.

What do you all make of ntl's preliminary results for Q3 2003

http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/press/pdf/2003Q3.pdf

On the surface they certainly look good and is a positive step forward for the company. What does everyone else think?
Code:
                    Q3-2003  Q2-2003  Q1-2003  Q4-2002  Q3-2002
Total Customers (1) 2,809,500 2,753,300 2,713,500 2,686,400 2,667,000
Customer additions  158,500  129,300  116,100    105,800    84,000
Customer disconnects 102,300 89,500    89,000    108,100    113,000
Net customer movement 56,200 39,800    27,100    (2,300)    (29,000)
Well they seem to be getting more customers but are still losing a lot!

Graham F 03-11-2003 22:25
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger K
Code:
                    Q3-2003  Q2-2003  Q1-2003  Q4-2002  Q3-2002
Total Customers (1) 2,809,500 2,753,300 2,713,500 2,686,400 2,667,000
Customer additions  158,500  129,300  116,100    105,800    84,000
Customer disconnects 102,300 89,500    89,000    108,100    113,000
Net customer movement 56,200 39,800    27,100    (2,300)    (29,000)
Well they seem to be getting more customers but are still losing a lot!
What you need to keep in mind is that if someone moves house they get put down as a Customer disconnect and then get readded to the customer additions column...so it can make it look worse then it is. but still alot

Paul 03-11-2003 22:26
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger K
Code:
Q3-2003 Q2-2003 Q1-2003 Q4-2002 Q3-2002
Total Customers (1) 2,809,500 2,753,300 2,713,500 2,686,400 2,667,000
Customer additions 158,500 129,300 116,100 105,800 84,000
Customer disconnects 102,300 89,500 89,000 108,100 113,000
Net customer movement 56,200 39,800 27,100 (2,300) (29,000)
Well they seem to be getting more customers but are still losing a lot!
Total customers has risen, DTV, BB and Phone have all risen, they seem to have had a pretty good Q3.

Undisputedtruth 03-11-2003 23:49
Re: Good or bad
 
I expected NTL to gain more customers, especially as they are given away some of their services for free. Only 56,000 new additions. Shameful really. It was not so long ago, as much as 70,000 customers were leaving NTL each quarter. The crunch will come when they have to start charging for their services. Expect mass exodus again.

Paul 04-11-2003 01:36
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
I expected NTL to gain more customers, especially as they are given away some of their services for free. Only 56,000 new additions. Shameful really. It was not so long ago, as much as 70,000 customers were leaving NTL each quarter. The crunch will come when they have to start charging for their services. Expect mass exodus again.
I don't see 56,000 new additions, it seems to say that they had 158,500 new additions (but 102,300 leavers) - an overall net increase of 56,200, which is not the same thing - and how can that be shameful ! If I was running a business I would be delighted that my net customers was increasing (and that over the past 12 months I had gone from losing customers overall, to gaining them). The only downside I can see in these figures is the increase in the number of disconnects.

Undisputedtruth 04-11-2003 09:04
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pem
I don't see 56,000 new additions, it seems to say that they had 158,500 new additions (but 102,300 leavers) - an overall net increase of 56,200, which is not the same thing - and how can that be shameful ! If I was running a business I would be delighted that my net customers was increasing (and that over the past 12 months I had gone from losing customers overall, to gaining them). The only downside I can see in these figures is the increase in the number of disconnects.

I have quoted net figures.

The figures are shameful because NTL are giving away some of their services for free and yet they can only manage 56,000 net additions. That would be a serious concern.

Remember, it was not too long ago, NTL were losing 70,000 customers net.

Nemesis 04-11-2003 09:22
Re: Good or bad
 
By comparisoon to this time last year, they appear to be improving ....... on their Net customer movement anyway ( -29,000 to +56,000).

The service does seem to be improving in general too, as has been noted there are far fewer NTL hell stories appearing ..... or is it the state of the forum ... or do people just not know about us ?

ian@huth 04-11-2003 10:44
Re: Good or bad
 
NTL removed 15,000 zero pay analog TV customers from their figures, but it is not clear whether they removed them from the Q3 - 2003 figures or have removed them since the report.

What does seem clear from the figures is that NTL are continually losing TV customers. They may be gaining Digital TV customers but they are losing Analog customers at a faster rate. I wonder how many of the Digital TV customers are only there because of the inducements NTL have given them to retain the service.

The average revenue per user has increased slightly but I would imagine that it would have fallen if this years figures were priced the same as last years. Price increases are the only thing to have generated this rise in revenue per user.

During this year churn percentage is increasing.

Nemesis 04-11-2003 10:52
Re: Good or bad
 
The likes of ITV Digitial will have given them a knock, and the subsequent Freeview stuff.

The question is now why are people leaving ... seriously.

Is it:-
the bad service ...
better alternatives .. Sky - Telewest is not an option really
More Freeview availability

what ...?

ian@huth 04-11-2003 13:12
Re: Good or bad
 
My view is that NTLs churn rate will continue to increase for several reasons:

Analog TV customers will look carefully at all options, including Sky and Freeview when they come to upgrade to digital. How many NTL customers stay with them simply because they can't be bothered to change or because they are enjoying inducements to stay with NTL.

Digital customers will become fed up with the "coming soon" situation on interactive and the lack of a decent EPG.

Sky+ will tempt customers away and NTL are probably years away from having a comparable product.

Broadband pricing, availability and quality of service will drive customers away.

Insistance of having a telephone line in order to get Digital TV is a big mistake and as ADSL gets faster and cheaper customers will be lost to ADSL and they will have to get a BT line making their NTL redundant and the NTL DTV package £9.50 more than Sky.

Ignition 04-11-2003 13:55
Re: Good or bad
 
Not going to answer the above immensely well informed points, just to say that net cash flow inwards of £98.1 million and customer base rising can't be too shabby :)

trebor 04-11-2003 18:31
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pem
If I was running a business I would be delighted that my net customers was increasing (and that over the past 12 months I had gone from losing customers overall, to gaining them). The only downside I can see in these figures is the increase in the number of disconnects.
true, but if it was my business I would want to know why I was losing so many customers because it would be even better if no one left.

Paul 04-11-2003 20:36
Re: Good or bad
 
I quite agree - which is why I said it was a downside. :D

Undisputedtruth 04-11-2003 20:44
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
By comparisoon to this time last year, they appear to be improving ....... on their Net customer movement anyway ( -29,000 to +56,000).

The service does seem to be improving in general too, as has been noted there are far fewer NTL hell stories appearing ..... or is it the state of the forum ... or do people just not know about us ?
Censorship plays a role on these forums. Those who post negative remarks at NTL often have their lives made difficult on these forums. Things are so bad you can't even mention certain words.

At the moment, the new customers are probably taking advantage of NTL special offers - well who would turn down free services. A year ago, the net loss of customers leaving NTL was reduced which meant NTL were gaining new customers. After 12 months of rubbish customer services they have voted with their feet at the end of their 12 months contract. I expect the number of customers leaving NTL to increase, unless of course ntl are willing to bribe them with more special offers.

Paul 04-11-2003 20:49
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
Censorship plays a role on these forums. Those who post negative remarks at NTL often have their lives made difficult on these forums. Things are so bad you can't even mention certain words.

At the moment, the new customers are probably taking advantage of NTL special offers - well who would turn down free services. A year ago, the net loss of customers leaving NTL was reduced which meant NTL were gaining new customers. After 12 months of rubbish customer services they have voted with their feet at the end of their 12 months contract. I expect the number of customers leaving NTL to increase, unless of course ntl are willing to bribe them with more special offers.
Oddly enough I got the reverse impression from both this forum and its .com equivelent - people who say thay happy with NTL or have never had poor service are treated as though they must have lost their minds.

Undisputedtruth 04-11-2003 20:54
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pem
Oddly enough I got the reverse impression from both this forum and its .com equivelent - people who say thay happy with NTL or have never had poor service are treated as though they must have lost their minds.
There was someone who actually paid a large bill caused by a defective product from NTL and then tell us how wonderful ntl are. Is it any wonder these people do not command respect? Tell me pem, is this normal?

Colin 04-11-2003 21:19
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
Those who post negative remarks at NTL often have their lives made difficult on these forums.
As do the people who say positive things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
At the moment, the new customers are probably taking advantage of NTL special offers - well who would turn down free services. A year ago, the net loss of customers leaving NTL was reduced which meant NTL were gaining new customers. After 12 months of rubbish customer services they have voted with their feet at the end of their 12 months contract. I expect the number of customers leaving NTL to increase, unless of course ntl are willing to bribe them with more special offers.
I dont get why its called a bribe above, and excellent customer service in the below post.

http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3869

Getting back on topic, i dont think the figures are that great to be honest, that amount of disconnections is diobolical, i know that the figures from transfers are included, and also more than likely people who have got rid of the anologue, and joined with digital, but the additions and disconnection figures should never be that close

Paul 04-11-2003 21:29
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
There was someone who actually paid a large bill caused by a defective product from NTL and then tell us how wonderful ntl are. Is it any wonder these people do not command respect? Tell me pem, is this normal?
No they are not normal, nor are they representative. So are you saying that because one (obviously not very bright) person did this - then everyone who doesn't have a problem with NTL is abnormal ?

grum1978 04-11-2003 21:48
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
Censorship plays a role on these forums. Those who post negative remarks at NTL often have their lives made difficult on these forums. Things are so bad you can't even mention certain words.
:banghead: You care to back up that statement with some links of where on this forum you have been censored? or is that another inaccuarte statement that you can't back up so you will go off and talk abt something else and hope no-one notices!! :knock:

Anyway back on topic..i think these are positive figures and gives the company something to build on :)

Undisputedtruth 04-11-2003 21:55
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grum1978
:banghead: You care to back up that statement with some links of where on this forum you have been censored? or is that another inaccuarte statement that you can't back up so you will go off and talk abt something else and hope no-one notices!! :knock:

Anyway back on topic..i think these are positive figures and gives the company something to build on :)
Hi grum, still up to your old tricks of misleading everyone. Tell me, are you still employed by NTL.?

grum1978 04-11-2003 22:01
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
Hi grum, still up to your old tricks of misleading everyone. Tell me, are you still employed by NTL.?
:shocked: Misleading where? :dozey:

Yes I work for ntl and have never hidden that fact when I have posted on this or any other site so wheres the misleading there? Would you care to answer my questions or can't you as you are talking utter rubbish as per?

Undisputedtruth 04-11-2003 22:25
Re: Good or bad
 
Thanks Grum, true to form, your presence has just proven my earlier point. :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
Censorship plays a role on these forums. Those who post negative remarks at NTL often have their lives made difficult on these forums. Things are so bad you can't even mention certain words.

grum1978 04-11-2003 22:32
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
Thanks Grum, true to form, your presence has just proven my earlier point. :p
:knock: Hardly :)

Kinda proves my point that you are unable to show me where on this forum you have been censored. There was nothing in that post that i qouted that was negative abt ntl though just abt this forum which you can't back up

As far as I a concerned you can think what you like about ntl/bt/sky and the like as there are alot more things in life for me to worry about.

Me back on topic now...seems ntl are going to get another £800 million plus in a share issue which will help in making the company even stronger :)

Undisputedtruth 04-11-2003 22:38
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grum1978
:knock: Hardly :)

Kinda proves my point that you are unable to show me where on this forum you have been censored. There was nothing in that post that i qouted that was negative abt ntl though just abt this forum which you can't back up

As far as I a concerned you can think what you like about ntl/bt/sky and the like as there are alot more things in life for me to worry about.

Me back on topic now...seems ntl are going to get another £800 million plus in a share issue which will help in making the company even stronger :)
I can give plenty of examples where my post has been edited. I'm just waiting for you to make a mug of yourself before I proceed. :p :p

:Peaceman:

Russ 04-11-2003 22:44
Re: Good or bad
 
UDT, you want to show me where I've censored something?

Stuart 04-11-2003 23:44
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
Censorship plays a role on these forums.
Where have your posts been censored?
Quote:
Those who post negative remarks at NTL often have their lives made difficult on these forums.
And of course those that post positive comments don't (clue: Look at any of the london broadband threads.
Quote:
Things are so bad you can't even mention certain words.
You mean the swear filter?

Quote:
At the moment, the new customers are probably taking advantage of NTL special offers - well who would turn down free services. A year ago, the net loss of customers leaving NTL was reduced which meant NTL were gaining new customers. After 12 months of rubbish customer services they have voted with their feet at the end of their 12 months contract. I expect the number of customers leaving NTL to increase, unless of course ntl are willing to bribe them with more special offers.
You may call what NTL offer bribes (although you don't when other companies do it), but offering freebies is standard practice in a lot of companies. One company I worked for (a very large video retailer) offered so many freebies, it was difficult to see how they made a profit (and, yes the did make a huge profit).

Undisputedtruth 04-11-2003 23:54
Re: Good or bad
 
I've just discovered my NTL telephone has been disconnected without my knowledge. Thanks NTL, you really are such a rubbish company. I think a phone call to OFTEL will sort NTL out.

Paul 05-11-2003 00:36
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
I've just discovered my NTL telephone has been disconnected without my knowledge. Thanks NTL, you really are such a rubbish company. I think a phone call to OFTEL will sort NTL out.
Perhaps they are out to get you ...... :ninja:

trebor 05-11-2003 00:43
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grum1978
Anyway back on topic..i think these are positive figures and gives the company something to build on :)
with a statement like that you must be an ntl manager with a press release in your hand.

assuming I am right, what would you say NTL are building ? because it's not a good reliable service that the customers are happy with. if that is what NTL are trying to build, they are doing it all wrong.

Nemesis 05-11-2003 08:52
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputedtruth
Censorship plays a role on these forums. Those who post negative remarks at NTL often have their lives made difficult on these forums. Things are so bad you can't even mention certain words.

At the moment, the new customers are probably taking advantage of NTL special offers - well who would turn down free services. A year ago, the net loss of customers leaving NTL was reduced which meant NTL were gaining new customers. After 12 months of rubbish customer services they have voted with their feet at the end of their 12 months contract. I expect the number of customers leaving NTL to increase, unless of course ntl are willing to bribe them with more special offers.
With the threads such as "new focus for .co.uk." and the RFC for the ntli.info site, I would have to disagee UDT. I would welcome genuine problems that people are experiencing with NTL, at least that way .co.uk would know to what extent the problems were, and would attract more interest from NTL CLT's. I don't honestly believe that there is censorship on this site, beyond the normal swearing, individual bashing etc. If you have some grievances, please post, and I see that you have with the telephone situation ... I would be interested as to how this gets resolved.

grum1978 05-11-2003 09:12
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trebor
with a statement like that you must be an ntl manager with a press release in your hand.

assuming I am right, what would you say NTL are building ? because it's not a good reliable service that the customers are happy with. if that is what NTL are trying to build, they are doing it all wrong.
Wrong on both counts I post here in my own time and i certainly don't quote any press realses. If i think somethings good i will say so and likewise if i think somethings bad i will say so!!

Something to build on ie when the company was going through chapter 11 i for one wasn't 100% sure it would come out the other end it has and is starting to produce good figures!

harmonyinfo 05-11-2003 09:17
Re: Good or bad
 
Does NTL still have a debt that needs to be paid off? Or was that written off when it came out of chapter 11. If it still has a debt, how big is it and what timescales does it look like it will actually be a truly profitable company with no outstanding debts?

Paul 05-11-2003 09:26
Re: Good or bad
 
Did I miss the answers to the censorship questions, the subject seems to have suddenly changed :erm:

harmonyinfo 05-11-2003 09:32
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pem
Did I miss the answers to the censorship questions, the subject seems to have suddenly changed :erm:
Just returning to the original subject of this thread (well, almost) - NTL's Q3 results. :)

trebor 05-11-2003 16:58
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grum1978
Wrong on both counts I post here in my own time and i certainly don't quote any press realses. If i think somethings good i will say so and likewise if i think somethings bad i will say so!!

Something to build on ie when the company was going through chapter 11 i for one wasn't 100% sure it would come out the other end it has and is starting to produce good figures!
ok I was wrong, but your posts still sound like NTL press releases, so do you write press releases for NTL ? ;)

was I supposed to read something into your statement or is the best thing you can find to say about NTL is their figures are looking better.
to me that sounds just like NTL, make it look good on paper and bugger the customers.

I would say what they need to do as they are in the business of providing a service is to provide a better one than they currently do and that way retain more customers and therefore more revenue.

a good reliable wanted service is what they should be building not a good set of figures. it's the customers who will save the company in the long run not the share holders. customers want good service share holders want good figures so it looks like NTL have got it all wrong yet again.

grum1978 05-11-2003 21:39
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trebor
ok I was wrong, but your posts still sound like NTL press releases, so do you write press releases for NTL ? ;)

was I supposed to read something into your statement or is the best thing you can find to say about NTL is their figures are looking better.
to me that sounds just like NTL, make it look good on paper and bugger the customers.

I would say what they need to do as they are in the business of providing a service is to provide a better one than they currently do and that way retain more customers and therefore more revenue.

a good reliable wanted service is what they should be building not a good set of figures. it's the customers who will save the company in the long run not the share holders. customers want good service share holders want good figures so it looks like NTL have got it all wrong yet again.
Is that my posts generally or just that one that sounds like a press release?

You can read into my posts whatever you want to as they are posts and not statements ;)

In what ways is your service not good at the moment?

I think ntl needs good figures to be able to provide a better service, but I agree with you that it is a balance that they might not have just yet

harmonyinfo 06-11-2003 10:02
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonyinfo
Does NTL still have a debt that needs to be paid off? Or was that written off when it came out of chapter 11. If it still has a debt, how big is it and what timescales does it look like it will actually be a truly profitable company with no outstanding debts?
Just found a page on the NTL site here that lists the current debt at $6.5Bn.

I know lots of companies (and countries) get big debts and it doesn't seem to matter. But if NTL are not making an actual operating profit (at least I didn't see one in the Q3 results), how are they ever going to pay off the debt? Or doesn't it matter as it is covered by company assets or something?

Jim

trebor 06-11-2003 10:17
Re: Good or bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grum1978
Is that my posts generally or just that one that sounds like a press release?

You can read into my posts whatever you want to as they are posts and not statements ;)

In what ways is your service not good at the moment?

I think ntl needs good figures to be able to provide a better service, but I agree with you that it is a balance that they might not have just yet
that's the only post I have read of yours that reads like a press release.
well that's the thought I had when reading it ;)

true I could read whatever I wanted into your posts, but then there would be no point in reading them or no point in you posting them, so I have to assume that at least parts of what you post is true or your opinion.

my current problems with NTL are I have not had a bill for 3 months and also my ntl webspace has stopped working.
and that is my point, NTL always seem to have a problem with some part of the service they try to provide to me and I feel sure I am not the only one with problems.
there company motto should be, if it's not one thing it's the other ;)
and until they sort out their service in general they will always have poor customer retention figures. they could sign up all the customers they wanted and keep them if they only provided a service that people want and are happy with. nobody will stay and pay them if they are not getting what they want.


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