ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

What, from a survey that puts Wanapoo in third and Tiscali in fourth! Give me a break!

If you survey n00bs, you'll get a naff response - as is proven here.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

only 6 companies!! hardly wide ranging

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Perhaps they are all wrong, and only you are right.

Probably 99% of users are what you would class as "n00bs". As they are the ones choosing ISPs and paying them, it's their "naff" opinions that count.

There are probably only 6 in the survey, as they are the major companies. The rest probably had too few votes to count.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

However many there were, ntl still came last & TW still came 1st.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Make what you want of that but if price is the only attractive factor it says to me we want new customers and once you a customer we dont value you.

As I said before it appears triple play is ntl's saving grace along with the agressive pricing.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Or quadruple play if the Virgin thingy goes through ;)

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

That doesn't stop it being a flawed survey. There are literally hundreds of ISPs in the UK - taking a sample of 6 does not represent the whole market. It also only asked 935 customers of the millions out there.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

when isnt it flawed when ntl are top? people will always claim any survey that disagress with them as flawed.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Not necessarily. However, a sample size that accounts for more than 1% of telewest's customers would make it more accurate.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Whatever way you look at it, ntl still came bottom.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Ny that token, I could argue that if I took 2 people,asked if Demon or Pipex were better and both went for Demon, I could argue Pipex came bottom. It wouldn't mean that Pipex was any worse, I could have picked two people who had a problem with Pipex, or two people who particularly liked demon.

NTL did come bottom. Doesn't mean the survey is accurate.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

:clap:

This could have been taken in a TW area with 900 TW customers and a couple of customers for the other 5.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Anyone for a game of "spot the NTL staff" ? It's not difficult, reading this thread.

NTL came bottom. A reasonable number of people were asked.

For anyone who cares passionately about NTL, surely the effort should go into understanding why they came bottom, rather than just rubbishing anything or anyone that criticises the holy company.

Large companies usually collapse when they become complacent and take their customers for granted. Then the more nimble upstarts will attract all these customers. Usually the large companies are too slow and arrogant to accept that there's a problem, never mind do something about it.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

The kind of people that actually do these surveys are the trolls under the bridge, moaner kind. Kind of like you, Neil :)

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Anyone for a game of "spot the NTL Knocker" ? It's not difficult, reading this thread.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Can discredit this survey all you like people but their has been a few done now and ntl perform poorly in every single one and I doubt they are surveying the same people every time.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Telewest has topped a list of the... Fair enough ;)

AOL UK in second place.... :erm:
Wanadoo came a close third.... :erm:
followed by Tiscali.... :erm:
BT came fifth.... :erm:

And NTL last.... :)


Out of those listed, the middle four would be the VERY last ISP's i would go for... funnily enough, in that order :p:

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Well said. :tu:

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Ah, good old lies, damn lies and statistics :D

Surveys (esp small ones) can be used to prove pretty much anything. You could ask another 935 people and get a totally different result. Makes for good news though. ;)

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

So is it a good thing to come bottom of a survey, even if it may be flawed?

JD Power are very well respected. Even if their survey is a load of guff then the fact is that people will probably trust it.

So there may possibly be x% error, owing to a small sample group or whatever. Is it still good to be rated the worst?

The arrogance of the NTL-pushers is incredible - we know we're brilliant, don't care what any else says (or publishes). Hang on - where have all our stupid customers gone?

A product doesn't necessarily have to BE bad. If people are saying that it is bad then that means that the supplier needs to think about whether their product or publicity needs to change.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Now who's being arrogant ?

I for one have never said NTL are perfect in fact if you look at my Services you will see i am dumping my TV because i need a PVR and NTL don't provide one. However as far as the broadband goes my service is nigh on perfect and therefor i will back them completely. however i can also understand that this is not the same for others and i can respect there outlook on the service instead of just having a dig at someone because they dont happen to agree with your outlook on the subject. Or is my or others outlook not allowed in your eye's ,because

1. Until the end of this month i work for them and my views are not to be taken seriously.
2. Because they like the service they have they are somehow brainwashed to say NTL is fantastic ?


So do the words wind up in your services extend to winding people up as well ?


BTW

This is a discusion forum. Not a we have to agree with DaggaDagga forum.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Nope, I am not, never have been and never will be an NTL staff member. I just know how statistics work. And no, 900 odd people out of the several million that are customers of the 6 ISPs is NOT an adequate size sample.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

I too am not an NTL worker.I do however know how statistics work and this is not that large enough sample at all.Not that I can't believe the results, just that it is dependent on the size of the sample and the demographics of the group chosen and I would suggest that 900 is not large enough in comparison to the numbers involved in the whole industry.

I would rather trust the combined opinions of the members of Net4Nowt site http://www.net4now.com/ which does survey it's members about the ISP they use.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

The problem with satisfaction surveys is that the one that comes out top can have worse customer services, higher prices, slower speeds and more service problems than the one that comes out bottom.

J D Power only use survey respondents who have the services of the company that they comment upon unlike others where anyone can comment on any company whether they have their services or not. They tend to judge their service by what is happening now compared to what it used to be like.

There is a fair chance that most survey respondents are very light users of the internet. They may not recognise many faults that more experienced users may find and think that how their broadband connection works is the same as everyone else's experience. They could be very satisfied with a service that some experienced users would find abominable.

You can ask someone on say Wanadoo what their satisfaction rating for their service is out of 10 and they may give it 9 because their service is better than that of friends who are on Tiscali and BT. They may have had many problems in the past but few of late which would tend to generate a higher satisfaction rating.

Most people will say that the ISP they use is the best and give it a high satisfaction rating because not doing so is an admission that they are using the wrong ISP. The only reason they lower the rating is because other ISP's offer faster, cheaper or services with less usage restrictions in other areas but not in the area they are in. They are presuming that the services they are unable to receive are better than what they have got without any proof that they actually are. They may therefore give a much lower satisfaction rating than should be the case.

What is happening with the different ISP's at the time that the survey is carried out also has a bearing on the results. If an ISP has just introduced some form of capping then customers may suddenly change from being very satisfied to extremely unsatisfied even though their service hasn't changed in any other way and their usage is within the cap levels that have been announced. You only have to look at some of the comments made on here when free speed increases have been announced to see that some customers are eager to find fault and complain about them.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

I should say that I have NTL broadband, and have done for years. Besides a few hiccups when moving house, the service has been excellent. I previously used BT Broadband, and their service was appalling. I have no "anti-NTL" axe to grind.

I just think that if someone (no matter how unqualified to comment) criticises a company's service then a company should consider the points made.

If a really dodgy survey of 100 people said that Tesco was the worst supermarket then I would guess that they would scrutinise the findings, and issue some kind of comment or criticism. Not just disregard it.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Unless there was some truth to it.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Yes but add up the number of people from all the survey's put together and they all rate ntl poorly, we are not seeing up and down results for ntl as people argue can happen with small sample's but instead consistent bottom or near bottom ratings for ntl. The small sample argument goes for all the isp's involved. The isp's I have used for broadband are in this order freeserve, nildram and ntl and out of the 3 for me ntl is the worst and nildram the best.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

I think what they were trying to do was a survey of the six biggest companies, rather than just a survey of six random ISPs. Bear in mind that these six are the first ones that the vast majority of people will contact first when wanting to order broadband.

Personally (and as an ex-customer) I would say that the whole of the broadband product is ntl's saving grace.

Their technical support is appaling, but given that the system was on the whole pretty stable most of the time then the need to call them doesn't arise for semi-technically minded people like myself very often.

Didn't they already offer a "quadruple play" with Orange a while back? That didn't exactly set the world alight IIRC.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Incidentally, for anyone who thinks Telewest is marvellous and squeaky clean, check out blueyonder.com. I came upon this by chance when a friend accidentally sent an email meant for a blueyonder.co.uk address to the blueyonder.com one, and I thought I'd check out where it had actually gone...

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

PMSL!!!! AOL 2nd, now that has discredited the survey....period!
I'm the first to knock NTL (mainly for the way they treat their workers), but behave!

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

AOL are very popular with people who are a bit unsure of all this technology stuff and want that nice digital woman off their telly adverts to look after them.

My mum has absolutely no idea about what ports are blocked by an ISP, what a contention ratio or ping is, etc. They do provide a hand-holding service that certain people seem to like. They are probably the most approachable ISP for non-techy types.

I guess if you like their service and it works, and someone politely helps you out when you phone them up, then you'll probably rate them pretty highly.

Personally, I wouldn't let an AOL CD anywhere near my computer.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

I would, the CDs look quite nice with a mug of coffee plonked on top of them. :D

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

IMO, anyone who takes that survey seriously shouldn't be allowed near a PC by themselves:erm: How can 900 odd people out of at least 4 million customers show a fair and accurate result? 0.02% is hardly an fair proportion of the market is it?
:rolleyes:

ntl may be the worst. BUt accepting that fact from a teensy weensy survey like that makes you look stupid to me.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

AOL leave a lot to be desired but from when I used it at my sister's house in her dialup days it was reliable worked and did the job. They answer the phone's fast and was in a uk call centre, to top this off it was a good price for what you get and had no cutoff's like other dialup isp's. I cant comment on their broadband but they have no cap and I would guess their call centre is better then ntl's. So its no surprise they have a higher satisfaction level.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

I think NTL may have been knocked back so far by it's poor CS responses. I can't comment on TW's CS because i'm locked to ex C&W franchise.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Would you say the same if they had come 1st? ;)

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Exactly the same. I wouldn't expect anyone to be guided by the results for any ISP on that survey.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

I have been with BT and Tiscali and i can say in my experiance NTL broadband is definately the best .

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Well here lies the problem, ntl's level of performance varies heavily in different area's. Some area's seem to have a very good service and people living in those area's find it hard to understand people are not satisfied but in other area's the service can be dire. To compound this when something does go wrong it can be hard to get ntl to resolve it, customers have to deal with india tech support who are heavily scripted and a CS call centre where the treatment isnt consistent. Would you say what I just said is fairly accurate.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

I believe AOL use India and Ireland call centres now- there is certainly one in Waterford.

From what i have heard the most frustrating thing about AOL is how patronising everything is, and the fact that if you have a problem you have to speak to 4 or 5 levels of support before you get to someone who knows what they are talking about.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

Well what you just said about AOL support I feel like that about ntl support. with the exception of swansea, but 9 times out of 10 I will get through to india.

Re: ntl last & TW 1st in JD Power ISP Chart
 

think you have misinterpreted... for example: AOL via ntl cable customer- modem is offline

Contact member services, speak to first line who say... hmm technical problem... phone second line, who say hmm.... isn't the pc... phone third line, who say... hmm isn't an AOL problem... phone ntl... check modem/ network and book engineer (assuming of course the AOL diagnosis was correct- in my experience 80% of the time it was wrong, if this is the case phone AOL back and return call to them). FUN!