Technology in Sport
 

Technology in Sport

I just watched a tennis match where they used technology to check if a ball was in or out when it was a close call. Played back on a big screen (very clearly : Big black dot against the lines) for all to see….........similar to the big screens at a ruby match but instant !

A couple of times players appealed to the umpire and then as state above it was played back instantly and except by the players and the audience loved it too. No arguments with the umpire or players screaming to see the tournament referee !!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

So why o why is this not brought into the game of football……the game if full of cheats diving all over the play or holding the head as if they had been punched !!!

Referees can be along way from the action and can make mistakes but how annoying when a goal is given to have a replay seconds later which shows the player off side, a penalty given to see on a instant replay there was no contact, or players having to be held back from trying to attack the refree when a decision is given against them. What example does this give to the children playing on a Sunday morning or at school !!!

Technology is now in tennis,ruby,cricket...there is big money in football and I believe this is now long over due !

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Apparently the FA are considering trialling this sort of technology at Highbury to see how much punishment it can handle per game.... :angel:

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I agree that this should be used. If it can be done quickly as it seems to be, then this would make matches a lot fairer.

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:rofl:

Think I'll watch this thread and wait for BB's response :rofl:

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With prize money in sport running in to Hundreds of thousands, I think this will be a good idea.

(Look at the infamous 1966 world cup final goal. yousing todays technology, British experts said that it wasn't a goal, and German expert said that it was a goal.)

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I am for it to be honest, the ref's are making more and more mistakes and their decisions are never punishable. Only last saturday leeds 2nd goal against leics hit a offside player, the linesman raised his flag but decided to change his mind before the ref seen him, this resulted in us going behind and having a man sent off.

I cant see it happening tho since too many argue that it will affect the free flow of the game, and those big clubs who always seem to get ref's favouring them would be stuffed :(

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I don't think that Referees are making any more mistakes than they ever have before, but now, with a dozen or more cameras covering every angle of big games, all decisions are subject to microscopic review, playing the tape back time and again, when the Ref gets just *one* shot at it.

And what message would this send out? The Referee's decision is supposed to be final, but still we see players trying to argue, intimidate or browbeat the Ref into changing his ruling (which they must *not* do) and were every slightly controversial decision go to video it would only say that "what the Ref says is unimportant, it's the video camera that's really running the game")

This should not happen.

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because it would quite possibly end up like american football, where a 60 mnute game ends up taking 4 hours!

video footage is still quite subjective when it comes to some fouls etc. i can see a good case for testing whether the ball is over the line (whatever line that may be) but otherwise i think it'd interrupt the game too much.

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ----------

also i think football can take something from rugby, in that arguing with the referee should not be tolerated in any shape or form.

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Only about 3 hours. ;) Anyway thats not down to video reviews.

In gridiron a Coach can only challenge a play two times a half, and there are penalties for a coach if the play isn't over turned. Not all plays are challengeable, and big mistakes still happen.

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i've seen plenty hit 4 :P

no, it's not down to video revews but it is a game that naturally stops and starts and so lends itself well to video reviews.

football is a flowing game, and if any reviewing was introduced i'd hope it's use would be restricted to very few circumstances to keep it that way!

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as stated football is a fast flowing game and can't be stop every 5 mins to go to a video ref. it wouldn't work the game would have no flow to it.. the players would end up getting cold and cause them injuries etc

what should be done is bring it in to check whether the ball has crossed the line for a goal or not and that should be it.. it can be checked quite easily and quickly and done disrupt the game

it was tried in peru for the FIFA under 17 championship but i'm sure sure what came of these trials

what should also happen is that after a match all the diving, pretending to be injured etc can be looked at and players banned for 15 games.. but this would have to be done with FIFA all over the world we couldn't just have it in England.. at the weekend one player was fouled from behind but went down and held the front of his knee!!!! surely the refs must know that is impossible

for the referrees ONLY the captain should be able to talk to them anyone else should be banned and carded if they do

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The problem with video replays is that the angle of the shot doesn't always reflect what has actually occured. I have seen fouls being analysed with shots from several different camera angles all appearing to show that a serious foul has been committed. A further shot from a different angle has shown a completely different story with it being evident that no foul had been committed. That further shot took some finding and many minutes of analysing all the different shots in slow motion were needed to arrive at the correct interpretation of what had happened. A referee with only one angle of sight and everything happening at full pace cannot always get things right. Stopping the game for several minutes to watch several slow motion replays of an incident is just not on.

In football technology could be used to verify if a ball had crossed a line or if a player was offside without affecting the flow of a game. Video replays could be used after the game by the referee to decide if a yellow or red card was justified or not. Perhaps in the case of a red card the player could be put in a sin bin with a fifth official studying video footage and advising the referee of his findings with the referee having the option if he thinks fit of allowing the player to return to the game from the sin bin.

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I heard on the radio the other day that the results of these trials were inconclusive. The technology will therefore not be used at the World Cup (yet).

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You could always just go for the low-tech solution, ala ice hockey and have a man behind each goal.

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Yep. Just look at England's 3rd 'goal' in the 1966 world cup final.

Everyone outside England knows it was never in ;) but the replays aren't 100% conclusive either way.

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for the 66 "goal" in the final that is using old cameras and replays etc they now have modern technology including sensors in the ball and on the goal line and also cameras in the goal posts etc that can help see this better.. as i said this was tested in Peru but as DanielF pointed out the results were inconclusive..

the problem here is that rules make no mention of whether someone is trying to slide in and win the ball or doing a deliberate foul.. which is why there is so much diving going on

it still seems strange to me that in a game with as much money as football and as fast as football only has 1 linesman per half and one ref.. why not have 4 linesmen ?

during a match there are only two times when TV should be used.. did the ball cross the goal line ? also ATM players who get treatment, fall to the ground etc have to go off the pitch and come back on.. while they are off the pitch the fourth official should review the foul on TV and if it was clear he dived then he should stay off the pitch for 10 mins

although sometimes it is hard to tell if a foul as been committed or a player dived once we get away from the diving culture players will be more honest and won't dive all the time

also this is from "The Laws of the Game" from the FIFA web site

this means any player going up the ref waving an imaginary card should be booked for being unsporting

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Thats the point it shouldnt be final. The linesman in my case bailed out cause he got scared of the home fans, what happens if a ref has a soft touch for a club and is leniant to them in the game, who questions him, who audits him, what punishment should he get for bad decisions that can cost clubs thousands or millions.

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------

Concerning it slowing the game down, you could have an ear peice in the ref's ear. Then only use it for controversial goals and penalties and sending off's, the bulk of the game can be left free flowing.

We have moved on from pub games, football is massive now, in a pub game it can be ok some decisions go wrong the consequences arent large but professional football is a completely different story altogether.

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last night I was watching the programme on ITV 4 about when Man U played Benfica in 66. i saw at least two incidents where in the modern game Best would have left in leg in and amde sure he was tripped and fell over to win a free kick \ pen

the problem is players these does now stop playing football and make sure they "win" a free kick or pen..

i've seen players go down after having their shirt pulled with faces of pain and screaming in agony.. how on earth can having your shirt pulled hurt you ? the FA, UEFA and FIFA are missing the point in that some of these are fouls but 9 times out of 10 the player who is on the ground has known the tackle was coming and made sure contact was made.. they have stopped playing football and going after the ball and would rather fall over and win a free kick or pen

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Essien should have gone off last night for his tackle on Hamann - the referee only gave him a yellow card but said when he looked at the tackle again on tv after the game, he wanted to up it to a red card.

The use of improved technology would ensure players like Essien spend as little time on the pitch as possible.

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I thought Essien was not booked at all? But I agree, he should have been sent off.

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the trouble with things like that is how do you deal with that during a game.. do you let the game go on while a TV ref watches the replays and then if he should be sent off talk to ref over a mike and the ref gives him a red card ? but then what happens if that player scores ?

do you stop the game.. if so what incidents do you stop the game for and for how long ?

after the tackle Hamann was injured and lied down on the pitch and waited for treatment. he didn't roll around on the floor 15 times going "aarrrggggg" and after the tackle he could still go on.. so how can after a slight bit of contact can a player roll over 90 times from side to side.. the reactions of a player when they are on the ground can tell you alot about whether they are diving or not

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An ideal time would be as the player received treatment - it wouldn't take long for a ref to check the incident as they usually occur in seconds. Perhaps there could be a time limit of, say, 5 seconds for a ref to come to a decision.

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a good idea but what about when they don't need treatment ?

the thing is during the prem we have had diving.. during the final of the European Cup there was diving.. which affected the outcome of the final and several millions of pounds in prize money]

during the last World Cup and European Championships there was diving and there will be diving during the world cup in Germany too

what we need is a global decision that comes in across all leagues, and competitions.. at the moment all they get is maybe missing one game

what we need is 10 game bans.. ALL the players now have in grained reactions to cheat and dive. by having lengthy bans this will help to drive it out.. it is an over the top reaction but what they are doing on the pitch is over the top too.

the thing is the FA can't do this and it will harm the English game and have no affect across Europe and the World game it needs to be done with UEFA and FIFA

what we need is a proper fair play competition not that FIFA one that says if the fans sing you get points :Yikes:

the trouble is the game makes money so no one cares

i've seen it with players from my club and it sickens me to see it

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In Essien's case his usual MO is to inflict an awful tackle then pretend he's been injured himself in order to try and gain sympathy from the ref - that would be an ideal time.

Remember referees have been stopping the game to confer with the linesman for years - this only takes a few seconds too.

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i don't want to the game to be slowed and stop started all the time as has been mentioned above you need to review the tackles from several different angles etc before you can be sure this would take about 2-3 mins per tackle leading to longer matches and TV problems with scheduling..

if if that was brought in the ref would only give a yellow or red card and they would miss one match at most.. i don't think that is enough of a deterant to drive driving out of the game

that's why i'm in favour of looking into these things after the game and then handing out longer bans

imagine if you owned a club and had to shell out several million a week on players wages.. no club would be able to afford to have 3-4 players banned for 10 games for diving adn cheating.. after having that sort of deterant for a few years it would drive it out of the game completely

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Referee's decisions should, of course, be subject to "peer review" ie if other refs or the FA think someone's biased towards a particular club (which I think is usually simply a case of bad luck or sour grapes) or is making a lot of bad decisions, they should be told to sort their act out or stop refereeing, but that's not the same as querying every decision made on the *at the time* that it is made.

---------- Post added at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------

I have no idea about the particular situation you describe, but, in general, if replays are showing that a player is persistantly engaging in unsportsmanlike conduct then they should be called before a Disciplinary Committee and be required to explain their actions and then fined, suspended, banned as appropriate to their offence.

However this is something that needs to be done *outside* the 90 minutes of the game, not *during* it.

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think one of the problems is that the refs seems to have clue about football or what is going on on the pitch

during the United game at the end Rio have a minor bit of contact on the keeper with a shoulder barge.. although it was more like bumping into someone while walking down the street.. the keeper went down adn then asked for treatment ??? he fell on the grass and there was no real contact anyway.. anyone who knows anything about football or even real life knows he was acting but he was still allowed to get away with it

how cn any ref believe he was injured and needed treatment ?

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They already are. In the past premiership refs have been demoted to lower league games after bad performances.

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

Unforunately you never know.

A few years ago I was playing in my usual midfield general role ;) and I slide in to tackle a player, won the ball and I thought there was very little contact. That player went down and was rolling around in pain, I told him to get up as did some other of my teammates who thought he was playacting as it seemed an innocuous challange. It turned out that whatever way he fell he ruptured his ACL.

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true there are the odd time when this is true but this was in the 90th minute when the player wanted to waste time.. it was plainly obvious he wasn't hurt in fact where the physio sprayed him was no where near where Rio "touched" him anyway, if there was any contact

refs seem to have no real knowledge of football

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He was sprayed on the shoulder, it is possible he landed heavly. Now if you were talking about the player who was stretchered off only to jump straight off the stretcher and spint down the touchline you may have a point. If you go off on a stretcher you should stay off for 5 minutes or so.

As for timewasting lets do what is now happening in rugby, if there is an injury the clock stops.

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well would have to say neither player were injured .. think they should be amde to watch these clips back in front of their children and explain why they are rolling around on the ground like that

no ref can really believe these are normal reactions though.. why can't UEFA, FIFA and the FA go to a pitch and re-enact some of these tackles and see what happens

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But what can you do? Do you have an indepentant doctor at each game who says if a player is injuried or not?

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it's not something i want to see but i would have an over the top reaction for now to drive it out of the game.. we need to get players banned for 10 games for diving then it will start to go away

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[Right, you asked for it]

Bring it in, it'll be handy when Essien, van Nostrilbooy and the spud faced grannyshagging wonderboy turn up and start trying to put dents in the pitch or our players. Given the prevalance of outright cheating amongst European teams, it'll also be useful in our next Champions League games*, which is a good reason for having it at Highbury rather than Old Trafford, since *snigger* there are going *suppressed cackle* to be some Champions League games there this season *outrageous ROFLing*. At least one, anyway.

*Note to Man Utd supporters - the Champions League is a competition for the best teams in Europe that ends in May. Not December, as you might erroneously assume.

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yes but if this was brought in you'd have Pires, Lungberg, Henry and Cole all suspended for diving

also Wenger wouldn't be able to say he never saw anything as it would all be done by TV replays

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nice to see you back talking about football again. been away for the past few days have we? ;)

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If players stopped cheating there'd be no need for video evidence.... or is that too simple?

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Everyone cheats. I doubt it you could stop it. I don't think there is a football player in the world who hasn't cheated.

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Christmas party season and trying to buy a house. Besides, I didn't want to spoil your fun.

I doubt it, since he's been injured for a few weeks, but you can't blame the man for trying, Rooney tried it last year and it won him the game, after all. Role models and that.

Mind you, there'd be a bit of a to-do if in a few months time Cole got banned, then that serial diver Owen got nicked for diving and banned for ten games just before the World Cup (or Rooney, for that matter). Anyway, isn't this in the wrong thread, I'm sure there's a existing forum for the lone Voice of Reason versus 900 blinkered Red Devils round here somewhere...

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Thats very true, I didn't remember any arguments about diving when Owen did it in the World Cup.

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i didn't argue but didn't like seeing it.. also he dived in the match against Austria

some players are so good at diver.. they can now make sure they get tripped up.. spin round in the air and then have their arms up asking for a free-kick / pen before they have even hit the ground

don't like seeing it for or against my team.. seeing Ronaldo and Ruud go over all the time claiming free kicks that aren't there is a site that sickens me and deserves no place on a football pitch

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Thats football these days. it won't be solved by bans. Fact is these days if you try to stay on your feet the ref won't give a foul.

I was trying to find the article but not sure where it is, maybe I read it in a newspaper, but it was an interview with Sam Allardyce and in it he said just as much cheating when on when he played as today.

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the thing is just because there is contact doesn't mean it is a foul. plus football is meant to be a physical game there SHOULD be some contact anyway

a foul should be when a player is tripped to stop them getting the ball.. if the player is going for the ball but gets it wrong and misses by less than an inch then it shouldn't be a foul

the thing is players no longer chase after the ball and their first instinct isn't to stay on their feet and get the ball but to fall over and "win" a free kick.. that is fundamentally wrong

i think we've gone slightly OT from the technology in sport question that started the thread

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If there is contact with a player before contact with the ball then it is a foul.

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The thing though is that some players only go into a tackle with the intention to win a foul rather than win the ball. They deliberately put their body in a position where their opponent has to make contact with them before the ball. They then roll and thrash about for ages, something that never used to happen years ago when there was far more physical contact in the game. This isn't sportsman like behaviour. I feel that the ref should only award a foul if he thought there was intent and should penalise any player who deliberately plays to win a foul.

Perhaps the FA should recruit some ice hockey refs and introduce sin bins where a player could be sent for several minutes to cool down.

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Is that not known as shielding the ball? Do you mean players should just let the opponent take the ball?

True, players do seem to be made of china these days, the only way to stop this is if a player is injuried and required the physio then he should leave the field of play for five minutes.

Unless you have a device to allow the refs to listen to players thoughts I fail to see how this would work.

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Of course after the 90 mins is too late by then, the ref's incompetance will have affected the game.

However I will agree if you if they change the rules that if the ref has found to be have made a big mistake they then (a) have the match replayed (b) fine the ref 2 weeks wages if a professional or ban him for x amount of games.

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Err, isn't there "time added on for stoppages" (aka "injury time")?

---------- Post added at 02:02 ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 ----------

"Incompetance" is a very strong word to use in a situation like this. It is very difficult for the referee, who, remember, only gets *one* chance to see an incident, to get every decision right, especially if a player may or may not have dived or gone in unnecessarily hard on a tackle etc, so to claim that, if they don't see it, they are "incompetant" is more than a little unfair.

But if, on review, it's found that a *player's* unsportsmanlike conduct has affected the outcome of a game, they, or the team could be fined or even have points deducted.

Replaying an entire match would be an expensive process to start with, plus it could possibly cause players conflicts with other commitments (eg international games), let alone putting them at greater risk of injury and, if it were found to be necessary, should only be done in the most extreme of cases, ie not just *one* mistake, but a whole series of them.

And if refs are to be "banned" for making mistakes, there should be much greater penalties applied to cheating players!

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Yep, but is its correct though? Try it next time you watch a game, time how long play is stopped for injuries and substitutions and compare it to how long the ref adds on in injury time.

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you're right they are meant to add on 30 seconds for each sub and these usually happen in the second half.. in the United v Benfica game we had both teams make 3 subs so that adds up to 3 mins but they only showed 4 mins.. does that mean the ref is saying there was only 1 actual min of injury \ stoppage time ?

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i think in this case the ref didnt want to put the man u supporters through any more torture after seeing their team play so badly

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I got no issue with large bans for players who dive.

The argument the ref only sees each incident once is not my problem, tv usage solves that but people are upset that a few secs delay will mess up the game.

Sin Bin also could be a useful idea for those borderline fouls where the ref is unsure and sinbin is a middle ground option.

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:bump:

Just thought I'd bump this thread and show that, even with video replays, mistakes still happen. In this case the officials made the correct call on the field, but then made the wrong call when the play was reviewed after a challenge.

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yes mistakes will always happen but as these TV replays show cheating goes on several times in one match without it being punished

how can anyone in the FA, UEFA or FIFA watch some of these slow motion replays and not realise they are being conned.. some players get fouled and injured 20 times in each match but somehow still manages to keep playing

i've seen countless replays this season of players who have had a hand brush their face and then spend ages rolling around on the floor covering their face.. is that even a normal human reaction to be touched in the face

as i said in the footie thread i plan to setup an on-line petition in the next few weeks so that people who are fed up with all the diving and cheating can sign it then maybe the FA and UEFA might take some notice

unfortunately as long as people are watching matches on TV and going to games and it is making money i don't think anything will be done.. you only need to look at agents to see that money counts more than football these days

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Ok so technology in sport.........discuss

Rugby at the moment is getting ridiculous refs (especially our friends from the Southern Hemisphere) seem to stop games for Tv reviews ata moment's notice. Stop it that's your job if the ball's not under a pile of bodies have the guts to make a decision otherwise we will have 4 hour long games as well

Cricket how can you judge if a ball will swing in or out for an LBW decision just for stumpings and run outs and may be the odd catch.

Cricket seem to have a struck a good balance so far

Golf this is a different kettle of fish here as the technology issue is more to do with the equipment than the replay side of things. I don't know how much further it can go we're nearly at the stage of 350 yard drives as standard

Tennis had this issue a few years ago about the speed of serves etc but it seems to be ok. Go back to the old sets of clubs and ban the lob wedge (don't ask) and use lower compresion balls I say. Plus stop one T.Woods playing in and winning every tournament he enters and give someone else a chance

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What sort of Tennis do you watch??? ;)

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as someone who has done a bit of research into various golf equipment... club performance could be massively improved, but regulation keeps it in check. i think this is a good thing for the sport - it's not about who has the best equipment.

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Well they were talking about looking at limiting the equipment using different balls etc to slow things down as the big hitters were taking over bit like golf is now

Didn't come to much but golf gear makers are going the same way the money spent developing golf balls and golf clubs is astronomical.

Hasn't helped me much still a 16 handicap