ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Is their money limitless o_O

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

OMG :Yikes:

---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------

No as i have found out :LOL:

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

This is getting confusing.

The deal between Telewest & ntl hasn't been finalised yet, but if this deal goes through, ntl will be changing it's name to the Virgin brand!

"In strictly financial terms, the deal will see NTL acquiring Sir Richard's Virgin Mobile. However, the cable company's name will be replaced by the Virgin brand and Sir Richard will be the largest shareholder in the new company."

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

http://telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jh.../ixportal.html

Another article with more info.

Why cannot I paste text into this box? I can on other vbulletin for

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

the 'virgin' name to replace 'NTL' - oh dear!

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Perhaps we'll get free local calls like the yanks do:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

que?

I already do and always have since the dawn of time (Diamond Cable).

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I reckon it's a great idea, the man has the midas touch, and in all honesty, I'd prefer Virgin taking control of the new NTL/Telewest group, than some faceless corperate buyout firms, who would only asset strip the group in the long run.
This way, we as customers should see some long term security and benefits in Branson taking over.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Indeed, ntl:/TW employees in the new business may even get a Tribe card which gives them discounts off products/services in the entire Virgin group of companies... a nice perk :)

Ben

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Richard Branson has either lost his mind.... (doubt it) or see's something in NTL / Telewest that is actually good.

I wonder what it is.............?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

noooooo, I booked a Virgin flight to Florida yesterday, if only I could have got a nice big discount on it :D :D :D

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

i think it is a great Idea, finally things might get better

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Does this mean the phone line will finally be unbundled from the TV package?

"Customers will be able to cherry pick which services they want and will receive a single bill even if they choose to subscribe to all four."

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I dunno. In my experience, Virgin Mobile's service is ,at best, mediochre (that's assuming it works at all), and every time I have been on Virgin trains, they have been terrible..

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

the first thing he will do if he does take over, is replace most of the drivel that work there now... so watch'ya backs! ;)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Yep. He'll outsource it to India.. As he has done with the call centre staff for Virgin trains.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

:tu: More news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4496894.stm

http://www.ananova.com/business/stor...840.html?menu=

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:27 ----------

Ananova will remove the story soon, so I will quote it before then:

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

But the one thing that Virgin is good at is PR.

Just think how much the PR difference is between the Cable commpanies and Sky.

Now add Virgins marketing to it and i believe you have the 'rebirth' of the Cable

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Exactly! Don't forget the overpacked Virgin planes

Pointless merger...NTL/Telewest will gain nothing from this...

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I think it can only be good, and perhpas even give cable the power over sky for once...

hey it cant get any worse.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

What do they mean by a "reverse takeover". :confused:

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

In this case, Virgin Mobile is being taken-over by NTL - however, Virgin Mobile's main shareholder (Branson) will become a major shareholder in NTL in a result... or, that's the gist of it.

Nothing can really get worse as a result of this.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Branson is a very clever man and this is a mighty move by him. This takes him to a whole new ball park in the entertainment market, and puts him in a position to challenge Sky, Virgin mobile could never compete with Sky obviously but this will make him the second biggest mover and shaker behind Murdoch and knowing Branson and with his influence he won't be happy to be the second biggest.

Shame the benefits won't be reaped immediately, lets hope it starts with the football :)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Oh dear.

This might be great for the service and great for Richard.

But what about my favourite website - I think "Virgin Hell World" might attract the wrong sort of visitors!

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

ROFL

Best laugh today ty

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Becareful what you say... you might need help from some of the 'drivel' one day my friend.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Sounds like a good thing. IMO Sky have owned the market for far too long.

By the way, Virgin mobile is a service provider and not actually a network as they rent their air space from T-Mobile. So in effect would T-Mobile have anything to do with this as well?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

exactly what I was thinking. for all the hype, his manchester to london route train I've done 2 or 3 times over the last few years is worst than the old BR version from the 1990's. There's something about Richard Branson I find uncomfortable and I dont think NTL need his image to sell the product.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:03 ----------

what a git. :td:

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I read in those articles that they will go up against sky for the premiership tv rights....

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...HY8&refer=home

Admin Edit (Stuart): Quoted text changed to a link

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

As Buddy Holly once said "That'll be the day!"... my friend ;)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

You have to remember what Virgan started with when they got the trains franchise - a underinvested old network with bad rollingstock, they had to invest billions anbd wait a while before the service was decent - afik they were not going to use the virgin brand to start with as everything was in such poor shape. Richard Branson decided to use the Virgin brand and build up a reprutation from less than scratch and knew there would be a huge dip in people trusting the brand based on Virgin Trains performance. They have slowly inporved things over time (this comes from a decent user of Virgin trains on the East cost main line).
They have the money and Richard looks like he is prepared to inprove things over time. This can only be good for customers, if he is willing to put billions into the infrastructure and customer service. But as will everything time will tell.

---------- Post added at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:15 ----------

Just read this - there goes all my thoughts of investment! :)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Well hopefully if this happens, we should now start seeing NTL move forward instead of treading water as it has for the past few years.

And hopefully start to be treated better as associates as well.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

it has moved forward in some ways... speed increases, stand alone cable modems introduced. shame the TV service hasn't got a PVR version and a unbundled phone line version.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Actually, I understand that. However, the problems I have had with virgin trains have not been caused by engineering work, or past underinvestment in the service. Generally they have been caused by virgin devoting over half the train to first class, then massively overbooking the second class (in fact, the last journey I had on a pendolino, this is exactly what happened and there wasn't even enough room to stand).

Oh, and Virgin is more heavily subsidised than BR was.

However, this is getting a little off topic.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I think it's very on topic actually as past performance on how he runs a business is an indication of what is in store for NTL. I would have used the phrase 'track record' in there somewhere but I'm avoiding puns today.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Maybe we will see 10mb speed trains on broad rails. And over 100 tv channels on mobile of course running with 10mb broaband.

Of course customers services wont know anything about it or what time the trains will arrive. lol

Personaly im please branson is involved with virgin as it could well bring a wider range of services hopefully at competitive prices.
I wonder if he will be really involved at the level of simon duffy or whether hes just a shareholder albeith the biggest single shareholder.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I'll go for that, after 7 years working for Telewest and having to pay subscription to NTL and Virgin Mobile I'm about due for some kind of concession.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Remember Virgin Power, a bit like Virgin Internet, build the customer base up from nothing overnight using the Branson Hype, then sell the customer base off to another company without saying anything to the customers.
Weâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ll be lucky not to wake up and find we have been moved to BT.

Trotters Independent Trading comes to mind.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

The bigger company is NTL/Telewest, the Smaller Virgin, so a usual takeover results in the bigger aquiring the smaller, in this scenareo the outcome is that NTL is tecnically aquired by Virgin making Virgin the owner, the smaller company aquiring the bigger.
However in real terms the shareholders of NTL/TW are adequately compensated in Virgin shares.
Note this won't be part of the private 100% owned empire, more like Virgin Atlantic which is 49% owned by Singapore Airlines.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

ohh look its christmas time ....bring out the branson :D

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Verminworld? Virgin-on-the-ridiculous?

I was astounded to see the BBC's coverage of this - it felt like I was having a press release read to me. Virgin Mobile (which is all we're talking about) is tiny in mobile terms (£800m isn't really a lot, and is much smaller than ntl). Virgin Net already got absorbed by ntl just over a year ago, and presumably Branson is doing what he usually does - extracting money from one bit of his empire to prop up another or start something new. That's where his true genius lies. The idea that a future media giant controlled by Branson (with a 14% stake) will suddenly start beating Sky into a pulp is, I think, wide of the mark. For one thing, this doesn't make the Telewest merger any less difficult to achieve, and that's much more important.

[veers off topic onto favourite hobby horse (or iron horse?)]

I suggest some background reading on the subject.
1) They didn't get the network, Railtrack did. Franchises don't actually contain very much substantively
2) We're each subsidising the Virgin franchises to the tune of some £12 per passenger from the public purse, as Stuart C suggested. Under the original plans they should have been paying *back* money, as GNER do.
3) They're effectively run for a fixed management fee from the state now, having more or less gone bust due to unworkable business plans
4) VT is a consortium anyway, like a lot of things that say 'Virgin' on the front, in this case with the bus company Stagecoach, which has 49%
5) Virgin don't even own the trains, either, Angel Trains* do.
6) They were called Virgin Trains from day one

So the much vaunted Branson business acumen consists of planning something unrealistic, then persuading the state to cough up millions when his over-ambitious private enterprise effort goes bust. Great stuff.

Whatever you think about Richard Branson, taking his rail efforts as a yardstick of his business acumen isn't a particularly compelling case

[still veering]

[The 'underinvestment' line is Government spin to stop us spotting the flaws in the rail system, incidentally (such as private enterprise contriving to run the thing *less* efficiently than BR). The average age of British trains is the same as it was 10 years ago but the average age of signalling is six years more, despite the whole thing costing six times as much in subsidy.]

* aka Royal Bank of Scotland. Banks know a good moneyspinner when they see one.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I really don't see how they can say that this move will give NTL a good chance to take on Sky. Sky do not offer Mobile services and I doubt that many customers give two hoots if NTL want to give them a mobile deal, I certainly don't.

What will give them a good run against sky, is a decent PVR deal, and a good VoD/HD service. These are the two services which will make people spend money, not mobile phones. IMO.

The problem with the mobile phone market in this country is cross network charging and with most people on O2 or Orange or Vodaphone, who wants to be on T-mobile ?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...-virgin-mobile

Well that explains why NTL and Telewest had not announced what the combined company was going to be called. These merger deals are typically many months in the making so they would have definately have known about it when they announced that NTL and Telewest were merging.

I think that calling the combined company Virgin is a good step to take as it neither the NTL or Telewest brands have UK-wide recognition and for those or any other new brand they would have had o launch a huge UK-wide publicity campain to promote the new brand. But with Virgin they will not need to do that - it is already an internationally recognised brand!

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

And a month ago, Sky didn't offer broadband internet. PLCs can't stand still. They have to grow, or the share price shrivels. And there is a finite amount of growth in subscription TV. That means you have to find new areas of business. So, Sky may not offer mobile now, but give it time and I wouldn't be surprised. Indeed, this tie-up between NTL and Virgin may just make them sit up and think about it, assuming they are not doing so already.

You, as an NTL watcher, are assuming that the majority of people make purchase and subscription decisions on the same basis that you do. In fact, most people do not undertake a detailed comparative benefit of the services on offer before they sign up. They buy on the strength of the brand. Sky's brand eclipses NTL's at the moment, in large part because it was there as a national entity long before NTL (and, unlike NTL, is a national brand).

Virgin is a tremendously powerful brand. Whether we think it deserves its reputation is besides the point; the fact is, it's big, and it's well thought of. Frankly I think this is a stroke of genius by NTL. They have basically saved themselves the millions they would have to have spent on a brand-building exercise had they re-launched, post merge with Telewest, with a completely new and unheard of name like UK Cable.

Again, you miss the point. Joe Public does not understand these details, nor does he want to. By your logic, no-one would be on T Mobile, and no-one would be on Virgin mobile. But plenty of people are, despite them being the younger of the brands in the UK. Why is that?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

With their recent licencing of TV shows to vodafone (I think), you can bet that even if they aren't already, Sky will be looking into moving into the mobile market.

In fact, the idea of TV on your mobile appears to be catching on (at least in the eyes of the mobile operators).

It might be good for NTL to get into this market before Sky.

Agreed, and these are coming. Maybe not quickly enough, but they are coming.

Actually, I do alright with T Mobile. TBH, with the amount of phones people appear to be buying (we have one of the largest mobile phone markets in the world), I suspect most people don't give a monkey's about cross network charges.

Also, as Chris said, you underestimate the power of branding. Sky (in the early days at least) was inferior to Cable, yet they still succeeded. Why? Initially it was because they had enough money to buy the rights to the Premiere league footy matches, and price everyone else out of the market. Now, they have a good brand. Why can Nike get away with charging 120 pounds for a pair of trainers, when exactly the same pair would cost 30 from a no-name make? Because they have a good brand.

I have criticised Virgin in this thread, and stand by what I said, but you don't get a much better brand than Virgin. Richard Branson is very effective at marketing his companies, and this is just what NTL (and to a certain extent Telewest) need right now.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Quite, Stuart. Brand is everything with Branson, and since ntl/TW need to rebrand anyway, would you rather start from scratch with an unknown name or pick up (fairly cheaply) one of the world's most recognised names? No-brainer when put like that.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I am hoping this might improve things as some parts of ntl service is poor. He plans to keep simon duffy in charge is what dissapoints me the most.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Not many takeovers result in the replacement of the man doing the takeover. This is ntl (CEO S. Duffy) taking over Virgin Mobile and borrowing their brandname to cover a whole bunch of services, not Branson marching into Hook full of pep and ginger and ideas.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Why? IIRC it was his predecessor, Barclay Knapp, who presided over near-bankruptcy and the appalling slide in customer service. I thought Duffy was the man left to pick up the pieces?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ch/4218500.stm

Working Lunch had something on it, 4.50min in. Nothing new really and whether you should trust them anyway, considering according to them easynet is now part of the easygroup o_O

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Correct. Duffy has done remarkable well considering the mess that BK and LW left.... But there's no fun in that info Chris - so let's get back to the job in hand and slate ntl and it's employees at every opportunity, eh? :)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

eh? do Sky offer broadband internet now?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

That's why they bought Easynet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4364566.stm

The deal is yet to be formally completed, but that doesn't alter my point. :)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

In fairness to Simon Duffy, NTL have improved massively under his leadership. Look at what has happened on this site. Under Barclay Knapp (IIRC), Nthellworld.com (which up to that point had functioned as a very effective tool for helping customers) was closed with a promise of a new NTL community site and broadband medic to replace it. Broadband medic turned out to be a pile of sh*te (IMO), and NTL community died before it was released to the public. In the meantime, they (according to Mark W) actually told staff that anyone accessing any outside NTL complaints sites risked disciplinary action.

Now, we are back in a position where we are officially recognised (and even recommended) by NTL, and, under Simon Duffy, NTL have been quite open with us, and are actively trying to fix any problems they hear of from this site.

Sure, NTL still don't get it right some (or a lot) of the time, but they are trying, which is something they didn't seem to in the past.

That's without mentioning the the fact that the broadband speeds have gone up twice with only a little increase in price, and the introduction of PVR and VOD,

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Comment from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4499330.stm

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

You also have to remember that by default the user base of a forum like this is likely to have had problems with NTL (or Telewest). Hence a more negative experience amongst forum members than the general public.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Do NTL make their own programs? of have their own channels?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Telewest own FlexTech (Living TV, UKtv and things). Also NTL and Telewest joint own FilmFlex.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

And they probably pay through the nose as a result. More fool them. I guess it really depends on what phones you regularly call. If your mates are on T-mobile you win, if not you lose. Point is, it makes no sense to switch to T-mobile just to get a quad play with NTL(Virgin). Unless of course they give free cross network minutes.

So is it a good business model ? It's a bit like a sandwich shop installing a wine bar, to try and compete with a purpose built wine bar.


Maybe I do underestimate, I've never been a consumer sheep. IMO, the proof of the pudding will be the quality of the content that the deal brings in. Much in the same way as Sky did with the footy, NTL(Virgin) need to put up a good lineup of VoD/HD content etc. or people will start to see through all the hype.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Wasn't it Malcolm Mclaren (or his dad - i can't recall now) that said "Never trust a hippy" ;)

Sure you have a brand name that everybody recognises but like so much of Branson's flagships (Cola, Train, Air or Mobile) can anybody claim to be happier since he got involved?

Just ordered Sky TV and only a month to go before i go back to bt so i really don't care :)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Does this mean our modems will be made by Nokia ?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

While Richard Branson is not going to be the chief executive, he will be hands on, thats how he works. IMHO they will have one idea that will be worthwhile and a hit.
Just look at Virgin Mobile? His ploy there, was to stop selling the phone at a reduce and plying that money into cheaper tariffs and talk plans that were suited for a 'trendy' demographic. For example, Virgin mobile sponsers the V Festival.

Breaking News

Might be off now

http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...icle331470.ece

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Branson is getting his hands on fottie rights now he is getting together with ntl I see a link there ?

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Seems like MSN Money has a view..... http://money.msn.co.uk/investing/Ins...in/default.asp

:angel:

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I have to declare a personal interest, too. My wife had an NTL account a few years ago, and was over-charged by a sma*closes window*

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

how long has simon been in charge for then? I thought he was up there back in the nthellworld.com days.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

toot toot nthw back again (boo cableforum)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

If Ntl don't drastically improve their customer service isn't there the danger that this could backfire on the Virgin brand and drag it down? At the moment I think "Old Slapper" would be a more appropriate name for Ntl !! :D

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

The trains haven't managed it yet :)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Nooooooooooooooo and double nooooooooooooooo. Richard Branson the peoples poet don't do it !!! Not even your mighty hand can turn water to wine, or in Ntl's case, Sh*t into sugar !! How disappointing! Thats it my virgin mobile is going to be replaced before ntl get their hands on it and it stops working or 'computer says no.' What rrrrr u thinking Dick ? Xmas is ruined !!!

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4508754.stm

Virgin snub NTL's offer

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Just in from Digitalspy:

Virgin Mobile reject's NTL's offer

Virgin Mobile's board unanimously rejected a takeover bid from NTL on Wednesday, saying that NTL's offer of 323p per Virgin Mobile share "materially undervalues" the company.

Virgin Mobile's shares soared to 356p each on Monday after the NTL offer was unveiled; they have since dropped back to 345.5p, but the difference between that price and NTL's offer price clearly influenced the board's decision.

Shares in NTL dropped slightly in the US on Wednesday, closing at $62.44.

Source: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds27063.html

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

You aint stealing my thunder boyo.

for once i got something before anyone else on here :D

BTW it was posted on DS page 10 hours ago

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

lol, I was on Digitalspy reading about Space Cadets (don't even start!) and saw the headline, its the first time i've randomly posted anything for ages, the thunder's all yours I promise, didn't even notice til i'd posted!

:)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Looks like this one isn't quite finished yet...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/09/ntl_virgin/

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I bet this will never go ahead!

No way will virgin want it's name associated with ntl. A company well known for poor CS and for nearly always being on the verge of bankruptcy! (OR AT LEAST IT WAS)

This is just a pipe dream!

I'll have whatever they are smoking please! ;)

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

NTL have refused to increase the offer for Virgin Mobile, at least for the time being.
Source BBC Radio 4.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I think they're just posturing at the moment. Trying to force each other's hand. I think a deal will still go ahead.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

This will go ahead I think.

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

more news
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...l-virgin-offer

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I reckon that pedigree chum might be a new partner they have a great brand

Re: Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

How is this to be funded do ntl have cash lying around to cover it or is it done in some fancy manner which doesnt need free cash?

Stakes up in Virgin buy out
 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/09/virgin_ntl/

Nice bit of deija vue. Will NTL go tit's up this time. They should be spending the money getting their systems right before wasting it buying Virgin.

Anyway they have enough of a system to do their own mobile phone net work (not that Virgin has a mobile phone net work).

Virgin + NTL + Cable&Wireless = Confusion
 

NTL and Cable&Wireless are going to merge and go under the name NTL. Then NTL are trying to buy some of Virgin moblie.

So if NTL are trying to buy virgin mobile why will they cange their name? Have I missed somthing? Site includeing The Register make it sould like Virgin are buying NTL.

Re: Virgin + NTL + Cable&Wireless = Confusion
 

Well, the C&W/ntl merger was nearly six years ago now. Virgin is a more powerful brand (read better reputation) than ntl and so is a better choice for a merged business.

Re: Virgin + NTL + Cable&Wireless = Confusion
 

So getting a new name will help
?

Re: Virgin + NTL + Cable&Wireless = Confusion
 

I think you're getting C&W mixed up with Telewest who, it was announced, that ntl will be merging with. There are a few subtle differences between a takeover and a merger - usually to do with equity, share value and board level movements - so even though ntl will be (in effect) buying Telewest they are officially merging.

At this point they could change the name of either, both or neither.

Then when you get to Virgin, ntl publicly stated an interest into a mobile network to offer a "quadruple play" of services (TV, broadband, home phone, mobile phone) presumably to out-play Sky who will be doing broadband and home phone later this year and BT who will be doing Freeview and Video on Demand later this year.

CableTel had a crappy name for itself. When they changed to NTL they started all over again and now the ntl (lowercase) name has a poor public image and stigma attached to it, in a way that Sky do not. It doesn't matter whether the perception is true or not, but ntl are perceived in marketing terms as second or third rate.

That's where Virgin comes in. The Virgin brand is extremely strong. British people have a huge admiration for Branson as an individual and even after all these years the Virgin brand is a cool one to be associated with - the public buy into it.

But this is where I think it's a dangerous game for Branson; the history shows CableTel and ntl making a mess of things from a brand point of view - effectively killing the brand with consumers. It is dangerous to create a Virgin branded cable system that will suffer the same fate in a few years from now. Branson has come incredibly close to doing it with the trains, but managed to claw it back - I don't think he'd be that lucky with cable TV.

So there you go...In a nutshell, that's why they would want to change the name - and I have no doubt that Virgin TV would be more sucessful for a while than ntl is right now - but I also doubt it would last.

Re: Virgin + NTL + Cable&Wireless = Confusion
 

Thanks that has helped.

Now I understand.

Re: Virgin + NTL + Cable&Wireless = Confusion
 

I agree, I think the main benefit to ntl would be a better image with the new name. It would only mean another known good name getting tarnished as you rightly said cabletel did to ntl.

The term "Deja vu" springs to mind :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin + NTL + Cable&Wireless = Confusion
 

Well I hope Richard if he becomes involved in this opperation will make things better for everyone.

The only thing I really want is to make the cable tv service faster; when you try and change chanel or open an interactive menu when watching TV is so slow, unlike sky. I don't use any of the menus for this reason. Also the ntl box tends to crash and it must be re-set.

Re: [Merged] Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

I see in the press this morning that Ntl had upped its offer to 372p per share and indications are that this could be the clincher for a deal.:erm:

Re: Stakes up in Virgin buy out
 

yes spend more money rolling out video on demand before spalshing out on virgin

Re: [Merged] Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Call me an idiot but show me where real cash is involved in this deal?

Ah yes, it isn't cash it's all shares!

Maybe you think they should spend shares rolling out VOD and improving systems? :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 23:37 ---------- Previous post was at 23:34 ----------

Erm. It's a merger. If it involved cash it'd be a takeover.

If you were to read the stories (not you personally but everyone commenting on this) you'd have seen that Branson et al are being offered a percentage of the combined company, which with this increased offer will have gone up. They are *not* being offered cash. 372p/share is an equivalent price in ntl/Virgin Mobile combined shares.

Re: [Merged] Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

so in your saying if they are holding out for increased amount per share as reported it means they get bigger % of total ownership of ntl and no cash involved at all?

Re: [Merged] Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

No they get more shares in ntl, total ownership is misleading. No cash involved.

Re: [Merged] Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Branson subsidises NTL's bid for Virgin Mobile

Source MediaGuardian:

Sir Richard Branson offered to stump up his own cash last night to realise his dream of creating Virgin TV by subsidising a new bid by the cable group NTL for his publicly listed phone business, Virgin Mobile, that values the company at £961m.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1686387,00.html

[mod edit (Chris T)]: Please do not reproduce copyright material in full in your posts. Post a snippet, and then the link.

Re: [Merged] Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

Effectively yes. If NTL is £3 a share and they want to pay £600m then they need to give them 200m shares, to increase the bid to £900m they need to give them 300m shares, however it is not quite that simple as it is arguable that as they have just paid £900m for the assets of Virgin they must be worth that much so therefore the share price of NTL will increase in value to reflect the increase in the assets (the Virgin Assets) that NTL now owns so this is not a linear thing.

Re: [Merged] Virgin mobile merging with NTL to take on SKY
 

There is cash involved in this deal. Shareholders are being offered an option of cash or shares. The Virgin Mobile minority shareholders have been expected to take cash all along, with Branson taking mainly shares. The new 'sweetener' now being talked about involves Branson taking a slightly higher proportion (20%) as cash so that he can increase the cash offer to the minority shareholders. This is why it's now being said he will end up with 12.5% rather than 14% of the combined company, because he is taking more as cash.

See http://business.guardian.co.uk/story...686387,00.html for a good explanation.

This suggests Branson will receive £120 million in cash (£10 million being passed on to minority shareholders) and my own quick calculations suggest the 360p/share ntl is offering could be up to about £260 million if all minority shareholders took cash only. Therefore somewhere between £120 and £380 million in cash is involved in this deal, probably nearer the top end of that.

The distinction between "merger" and "takeover" actually relates to the relative size and/or management roles in the new company, rather than to whether cash or shares are involved. There is a tendancy for mergers to involve more shares, but this isn't what determines the name. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merger#Merger

In this case, I think it would be fair to describe the deal as a "takeover", but the distinction is far from clear.

Sorry for the lecture, but I'm revising for an exam in managerial economics for my masters so its good practice!