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NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
Over the last two weeks I have received about ten emails. In every case they are sent to a single ntl email customer, and bcc-ed to an unknown number of other ntl email customers. The last one I received was addressed to me. They contain offers of pirated software at knockdown prices (e.g. XP Professional $49.95). They are flagged by NTL as spam, but I have opted to receive "spam" until I am satisfied that there are no "false positives".
I have several concerns about this: 1. It appears that spammers have obtained a list of ntl email addresses. As a result of this I could - if I wished - collect email addresses of other users. In other words I believe that there has been a security breach at NTL. I had a similar problem with tesco.net a few years ago. Naturally they denied that there had been a security breach, even though one of the recipients was their own marketing department. 2. The emails are deliberately dressed up to appear very similar to those sent out by Amazon. They include numerous graphical links to amazon.com. I informed Amazon of this development, together with details of IP addresses, and received the appended reply. (The odds against the email addresses being "randomly generated" is extremely high.) 3. If you are enticed into buying this pirated software, you will be directed to a website hosted in China (I did a whois lookup on the IP address). There you will be directed to a "secure payment" site, also hosted in China, and asked for your credit card details. In other words this is a phishing attempt. The reason they cite for being able to offer the software so cheaply is that it is "only available by download, so no fancy packaging...". Nice try - must do better next time. Note that Amazon require you to log in before accepting orders, and they will normally use credit card details previously registered with your account. If anybody wants me to post the contents of this email, or anybody from NTL would like a copy forwarded, please let me know. ---------- Amazon response: Thank you for writing to Amazon.co.uk. The e-mail you received did not originate from Amazon.co.uk and we had no part in it or its content. It is not the policy of Amazon.co.uk nor Amazon.com to request payment card numbers by e-mail and we would never write to a customer to ask them to do so, as electronic mail does not provide security. Please rest assured that we understand your concerns regarding the e-mail message you received. We are also very concerned about the implications of this message and the misappropriated use of our name, and we are currently investigating this situation. You should not send any information about yourself back to the e-mail that you received (especially any credit or debit card numbers or personal information). Also, please be assured that Amazon.co.uk is not in the business of selling customer information. Many spammers and spoofers use programs that randomly generate e-mail addresses, in the hope that some percentage of these randomly-generated addresses will actually exist. Further altering the appearance of the sender in e-mail headers can be a relatively simple process and copying the general appearance of a website is also simple. If you encounter any other uses of the Amazon.co.uk or indeed, the Amazon.com name that you think may be fraudulent, please do not hesitate to contact us again. The Internet is a large and fairly unregulated universe; it is only through our constant vigilance and with the help of others like yourself that we can ensure that our name is not misappropriated for illegitimate uses. We hope that we have been able to alleviate your concerns. Thank you again for alerting us to this situation. Warmest regards Rocke W. Customer Service Amazon.co.uk ---------- |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
Thanks for the warning - however I doubt there has been a security breach, they are quite possibly using a list generated out of common words and people's names, all hit and miss - many emails will fail or bounce, but some will get through. I get spam at my work addy, with a load of other people's names @myemployer.com copied in, and I know for a fact that many of the names on the email don't exist in our address book.
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Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
Spammers frequently just send a whole list of mailings commonly guessing email addys and domains. The big domains are ideal targets. If you then have an easily guessed dictionary user name, that's it you are on a list.
If you email addy has been published on the web somewhere, you've got it on your website, or youv'e made the mistake of posting it to a forum or whatever, bots will have found it, recorded it for posterity, and sent it to dozens of spammers. It's all too easy. I got rid of most of my ntl spam by the simple expedient of having an unusual user name, and never publicly posting it. |
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BTW my email address is of the form joe.bloggs23@ntlworld.com (heavily munged). Another interesting thing - which I also noticed at Tesco - was that only my primary email address gets the spam. None of the secondary ones I created receive any of it. (Yes, I've turned off the spam filter for all of them.) Which tends to support the theory that somebody has obtained a list of primary email addresses I'm afraid - especially as some of the seconday email addresses would be much easier to generate randomly than mine. I'll check back tomorrow and see how this thread develops. Brian |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
I am getting properly addressed, first and last name spam, it would be very difficult for any spammer to get lucky and guess as my name is, as far as I know, unique so there would appear to be some list somewhere.
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Has it occurred to you that there may well be a real joe.bloggs23 with ntl, Brian? If you're going to post even imaginary addresses in a forum, it's wise either to present them in a form that they're not readable as valid email addresses, or to ensure that they are not existing addresses or for existing domains - even if the address doesn't exist, the domain's servers will still get the mail and have to deal with it. Certainly, it's true that spammers are unlikely to be trawling a forum like this, but it's not impossible, and it's also a very bad habit to get into. And, incidentally, the format of email address you've presented _is_ likely to be duplicated by spammers' address generators. Do you think they don't know that ISPs usually discriminate between customers with the same name by adding a number after the name? You'll have to be a little more subtle than that. |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
I'd recommend (if using Outlook) to look into the email properties and check the MIME headers of the email - may give an idea as to where the email originated from and action could be taken from there.
It may be worth looking into using a program like Mailwasher to fire emails back where they came from for a few weeks - see if this helps reduce the amount of spam emails received. It may actually help (it has done for me in the past). |
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However about 3 days ago these emails suddenly stopped, so maybe somebody has tracked down the source of them. For now I'll keep the NTL spam filter turned off though, as in the last 24 hours is has flagged 2 genuine emails (one from CNet) as spam. :shocked: ;) |
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------------------------------ Return-Path: <WinnieXiong@fones4all.com> Received: from aamta06-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mta05-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20051119040012.NVIJ28994.mta05-winn....spmail.ntl.com>; Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:00:12 +0000 Received: from user-0c6tokc.cable.mindspring.com ([24.110.226.140]) by aamta06-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with SMTP id <20051119040006.OQQX18434.aamta06-win...mindspring.com>; Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:00:06 +0000 Received: from tWG@localhost by 799.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:16:29 -0600 Message-ID: <kgi40Uj8seIakLtGUlE42u28@francekeys.com> From: "Wendy Acevedo" <WinnieXiong@fones4all.com> Reply-To: "Wendy Acevedo" <WinnieXiong@fones4all.com> To: foo.bar@entee-ell.com Subject: [SPAM?] Huge $avings on ALL best-selling Macromedia titles Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 02:13:29 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: WinnieXiong@fones4all.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--ACLzoXmwsHcnbS4IswL" ------------------------------ It appears that the email has come from the USA - possibly California. Brian |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
a few years ago, my brother who works in communications, was offered an ntl email list (within the last 4)
can't remember the exact details, too distant and hazy now |
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The 'fones4all.com' address is for a Californian company called, of course, fones4all. See here for a brief description of what they do. They would appear to be a telephone service dedicated to supplying a low-cost service to underprivileged households in Southern California who might not even be able to have a telephone service without an organisation like this. It would therefore seem unlikely that they're the real source of a spam email pushing "ALL best-selling Macromedia titles," the return-to address would appear to be spoofed (it would seem to come from a mindspring.com user, and fones4all appear to use "the telecommunications infrastructures of SBC and Verizon" for their service), and I find it somewhat churlish to post an email address at their domain in a public forum - whether or not they actually have a Winnie Xiong, any spam arising from that post will still have to be dealt with by their servers. It may not be that likely from a post in a forum like this, but it's not impossible, and I really think you should be more careful about the email addresses you post, nedsram. I notice you've taken care to obfuscate your own email address ("foo.bar at entee-ell.com") in this. Why is that? |
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For your information, the email address I obfuscated wasn't mine - I was in the bcc list. As for the other email address you mentioned, I can assure you that it is genuine. Have you perhaps considered that the owner may have had her PC infiltrated, and is unaware of this? I won't be reading - or contributing to - this thread again. Thanks to everybody else for the useful discussions. Brian |
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My point about the email address was, I thought, quite obvious - not that you shouldn't have obscured it, but to ask again, if not directly, why you found it necessary to post someone's (who was clearly _not_ the author of the spam email) email address in full in a public forum. If you want to complain about receiving spam, fine. If you want to post about ntl selling on email addresses, I think you're wrong, but but I have no problems with you arguing the point. But posting people's email addresses in a public forum is _not_ acceptable behaviour for me, and I have to say that I think the less of you for throwing a temper tantrum rather than simply taking it on board and refraining from doing it again. I had pointed out to you once before that this is not an appropriate thing to post. |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
OK I'm going to break my silence Patrick.
I undertstand your concerns about publishing email addresses, although I think that you are over-reacting. However I won't publish any in future. The number of spam emails I am receiving is now starting to increase. Note that only my primary email address is receiving them. Today, as well as yet another offer of pirated software, I have received: o confirmation of my "registration"; o information on how to enlarge a certain member; o an email from the "FBI" that I have visited 30 illegal web sites, and must complete and return the attached form. This is depressingly reminiscent of what happened at tesco.net a few years ago. At least I can turn the spam filter on, so that I don't get any of this junk (and lose a few genuine emails as well). However if anybody from NTL is reading this, I suggest that you monitor the levels of spam email received, as my prediction is that it will rise continuously (as people sell off this illegally obtained list of email addresses to other spammers). I would also suggest that NTL might like to investigate how a list of primary email addresses got into spammers' hands in the first place. OK Patrick, I know you think I am wrong on this one as well, but sadly I have been here before, and all the evidence points to the conclusion I have drawn. I also recall somebody else suggesting that a copy might have been sold by an unscrupulous employee. What I may have to end up doing is create a new seconday email address for myself, and using that instead of the primary one. I could then set up a mail rule for everything received on my primary address to be deleted at the server. However let's hope it doesn't come to that. |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
So if somebody has got hold of NTL email address list - how come I, and no doubt many others aren't getting this (or much else) spam? [and I have the spam filters set to forward to my account, and I've been with NTL for 5 years or so).
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Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
There's no way to ensure an email address won't be targeted by spammers, Brian - the best way would be to create a name with random characters and then never use it. As an example, I haven't used any of the ntl email addresses I've had since my cwcom one (and I don't use the cwcom at all for communicating with people - it simply serves as an address for various reasonably trustworthy subscriptions) and I don't think I've ever had any spam on any of them.
Firstly, as has been mentioned previously in this thread, spammers use name generators with the domain names for large ISPs, and it's pretty likely that they will check out how the ISP presents its email addresses when doing this. So it's fairly certain they will use aspects of an ISP's naming policies such as numbers after a name to distinguish between users with the same name. Try putting number characters into the middle of the name as a better way to combat this. And they're happy to use a 'scattergun' approach; they don't mind if most of the very large list of names they create miss, just so long as a few get a response. When you use an email address, even if only with trusted friends, it's going to wind up in their address books. And then it only needs one machine to be compromised (and face it, a lot of people have infected machines now and never know it) for that address to be used, not only to send emails to you, but to send emails to others using your address as the return one. See how easy it is to get your address plastered all over the internet? And that's why I get concerned over, for instance, your publishing someone's email address that you thought had sent you spam. As I demonstrated, it was extremely unlikely that the address you published was the originating address - i.e. it was spoofed - and, even if it wasn't a valid address (and it may well have been a valid one) the domain, which belongs to a telco providing 'phone services to disadvantaged people in California, will have to deal with any spam sent to that address. Yes, it is possible that an employee of ntl has sold a list of email addresses, but I would consider it much less likely than that the people who've been getting spam are the victims of a spammer creating lists, or simply haven't been careful enough with their addresses - as I said before, just using an email address, even carefully, is probably enough to compromise it. The reason why none of my ntl emails have ever received spam is simply that I've never used any of them. |
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I would doubt, Keytops, that if a disgruntled employee at ntl had sold email addresses on, that they would have had access to, and would have been able to obtain, anything like a complete list of all addresses. It would probably be only a small segment - which is not to say that I think it's likely that such a thing has happened at all. And I _seriously_ doubt that ntl as an organisation would sell their entire database on. |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
A few years ago my primary email address was getting about 250 emails a day mostly spam, and after a two week holiday over 3500 emails so I added another email address and used that for family & friends only.
I would advise that you set up several email addresses 1. family and friends 2. for play.com type website 3. for websites that require you to login to etc |
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http://uk.mcafee.com/virusInfo/defau...virus_k=137072 |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
Unfortunately Spam is part of life if you use Email. There is no avoiding it.
Just because you are getting spam it doesn't mean anyone has obtained a list of email addresses. It's free to send emails so spammers send out millions upon millions of emails to random addresses at known domains. ntlworld-dot-com is a known domain so millions of emails are sent to it from spammers all over the world (quite often from PCs infected with a virus that the owner doesn't even know about) to random words, numbers etc..etc... It is not the same as postal junk mail where senders buy lists of addresses, they do that because it costs money to send out junk mail so they only want it to go to relevant addresses whereas spammers can send whatever they want for free. If you want to blame anyone, blame virus writers, the people who decide to try to con people by sending out spam & the select few fools who reply to the emails and even sometimes pay them money. |
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I was merely warning people what was happening. Please don't shoot the messenger. |
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But it seems like you are shooting the messenger! you can't blame NTL for getting an email virus.
Anti-virus software is always one step behind virus writers. Companies like norton, mcafee etc... can't pre-emt a new virus before it comes out. It's perfectly normal for a virus to do the rounds before AV software updates are available (& applied!). I'm not trying to have a go, I'm just pointing out that it's not right to start blaming NTL for illegally selling email address lists. There is a direct relationship between spam/viruses & anti-spam/anti-virus software that has always existed & always will. Spammers/virus writers find a new way of tricking current anti-spam/virus software & as a result millions of new spam emails and/or viruses get through. It takes time (although usually only a day or so) for the new software updates to be written & usually a lot longer for people to get round to applying them. That then blocks most of the spam & viruses until the next "breakthrough" by the spam/virus writers. Blaming NTL for spam & viruses getting through to you is incorrect & (no offense intended) shows a lack of understanding of how these systems work. |
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Email harvesters Spyware/viruses A dictionary |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
For the last few days i am getting mails of this format with different subject and the end random numbers . again the address seems to be bcc. my email address is something which definitely cannot be arrived by random combination
we have both brands men and women highquality made rolx and bretlng many models availablele 038.welcoometous.com spvjkhw nbtej yymmcrjq yjlr ff xhq |
Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
Ok. I set up a new secondary acount on the 18th of this month. Spam so far ..
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Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
There are many ways of spammers getting your email address through no fault of NTL, many of which have been touched upon here. The ways I know of include:
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Re: NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?
Quote:
This subject has been done to death, just to confirm though that ntl's email databse is not sold or obtained by spammers, all of the above reasons apply. |
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