allofmp3.com
 

in my quest to find a cheap legal download site, i stumbled accross http://allofmp3.com

it offers mp3' singles for around $0.10 each (it varies as you pay depending on the size of the track)
and also offers full albums ranging from $1 - $2
it is a great site and you pay in credit, so you buy $10 credit etc...
i have been using it, but it dawned on me that the money i am paying is going to fund the b/w, not the actual track.
does anyone have any ideas if this site is illegal?
if so, its back to paying 79p from itunes :rolleyes:

Re: allofmp3.com
 

I wouldn't risk it personally but that's just me.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Considering it's been under investigation and has disclaimers warning people that they may be using the service illegally if they violate any local laws then I would stay well clear.

Plus, I wouldn't be comfortable giving any finance related information to dodgy Russian websites.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

yeh its back to itunes then cuz i dont wanna download illegally

Re: allofmp3.com
 

You might find this article interesting.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Good on you! It's nice to hear someone say this for a change.

What happens with allofMP3 is that they are collecting your money and are allowed to operate under an extremely out-of-date loophole in the Russian copyright laws.

However, copyright exists in both recordings (the actual track) and in the writing (the words and tune) and only one of these (under this loophole) permits allofMP3 to put original artist recordings online. The other, in true Russian quango style, refuses to talk to, well, anyone really - so they have NOT granted any license to anyone for the composition rights be places online. However, it could possibly be argued that allofMp3 offered to pay the authors via this body, but as the body won't talk to anyone they cannot do so. So, to me, it's unclear whether allofMP3 OPERATES illegally.

If you want to talk about morals, then they are acting immorally - they have exploited a loophole that allows them to pay virtually nothing to the record labels and absolutely nothing to the composers and publishers - which, if everyone only used allofMP3 to get all of their music, would result in virtuallyu no music being made available commercially.

However, under UK and EU copyright laws, to me again, it is fairly clear that it is unlawful to USE allofmp3. Recently the BPI used the copyright laws to stop some companies supplying legitimate product sourced in Asia and the US to any EU customer. In addition, the legal case between Levis and Tesco found that tesco were not allowed to source grey market product and sell in the EU, as this was a breach of copyright.

Therefore, by downloading music from allofMP3 you are in breach of copyright, by personally sourcing grey market copyrighted product from outside of the EU - which could (although it's unlikely) leave you open to future prosecuction by the BPI.

Copyright is a complex beastie!

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Slightly off topic, but this to me is immoral buy companies artificially inflating prices in some markets as opposed to others, forcing the consumer to pay the increased price where they can get away with it. Its funny how companies are only for a free market so long as it suits their profit margins.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

As the old saying goes....two wrongs don't make a right. There's no doubt that the music industry has, in the past, been a victim of its own greed and I would agree that, until recently, with regards to downloading music they have well and truly had their head up their own behinds.

But things are getting better - legitimate download services are available and getting better all the time. Of course there are elements of the business that want to revert back to the old days of trying to fleece their customers by doubling or trebling the cost of online downloads - and these people should be reminded how the enormous dent in profits they suffered from consumers who didn't like paying OTT prices for CDs and went online and got them for free instead - but that's another subject completely!

Where I particularly dislike allofMP3 is that they are using an outdated copyright law in Russia to avoid paying much to the record labels (and in turn to the artists) and nothing at all to the publishers (and in turn the composers).

And for those who don't have much sympathy for the labels, I would urge them to think about the artists and writers instead. If you're a new artist, have a middling hit record with a song that someone else wrote - your royalty payment (aside from taking upwards of six months to come through) will not cover a week's food shopping at Lidl's.

Composers who write the song (also have to wait upwards of six months) get a couple of PENCE for having their songs played on nation radio in the UK for example. They need quantity to live and allofMP3 are denying them what should be a sizeable payment per download and banking the money themselves - making no effort whatsoever to pay these people.

Whilst the labels and big publishing houses might be able to survive without such payments, there's a lot of talented people who simply cannot.

Personally, I think that taking a payment and not paying the dues is worse that the people who "share" their collections online for free.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Would be good to see a situation soon why the artists etc can by-pass the record companies and sell their music straight to the public. I can see that as a situation where the artists and the public gain. Cheaper music to us, and more money to the artists - and bugger all to the labels, which seems fair to me.

I think some of the larger artists could be in a situation where they could easily make this a reality

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Pay for MP3's? Are you all mad?

If so i have a small child in need of clothes this christmas - i cant afford to buy her any as my wife just left me and is suing for custody of her. Im givng up everything to be able to keep her - but im not sure how much i can take.

Please give generously at suckers@paypal.com.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Im afraid Im with you on this one.Im a leech and I dont care what the moralists say.I have asked this question before and im yet to be answered ,how many can truely say they have nothing pirated or in breech of copyright,not a single illegal mp3 or dvd not a single cd,anyone ever borrowed a dvd off a friend and watched it? this in itself is breech of copyright I would wager that very few people indeed are 100% clean very few if any ;)

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Russian!?...I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole! :erm:

Re: allofmp3.com
 

The problem with the leeching arguments is that people like to wear it like a badge of honour. The same behavior is exhibited in West Coast gangs, where they take a slice out of their eyebrows for each person they have killed - different end of the scale...but same basic level to show-off to others they they have broken the rules.

However, I don't think the issue on discussion is whether you're a leech or not - that's a subject for another thread.

The question is whether you'd pay someone to leech. And is this worse than leeching for free? Personally, and for the reasons given, I think it is. A comparison could be drawn that it is worse to buy a pirated DVD from a bloke at a carboot sale than it is to borrow it from your mate and copy it.

Yes, and for some it's already a reality and that's great. However, having worked with the music industry for many years, and met many of the artists - I can honestly say that 95% of them wouldn't have a clue what to do with regards to makerting, distribution, promotion, arranging tours and dealing with the processing of royalties.

Those that can...great. Those that can't...need record companies.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Re: allofmp3.com
 

yes im with you too
yes i do use p2p and bittorrent every now and again to get what i want :)
some times it is easier! even thogh i can afford to pay for music-the lastle of signing up, downloading software, searching for what you want, paying for it, installing music manager, waiting aaagggeees for the slow servers they use, and after all that its copyright protected so i cant put it on my mp3player!
allofmp3.com is simple yet effective. so is limewire. so is bittorent and thats why their popular. itunes etc..are just too complicated with their liscences-it means i have to burn any tracks i download to an audio cd and then rip them, then transfer them to a portable device-stupid!
i don't like to break the law, and as i said above I want to go legal, but to be honest i just can't be bothered. and paying 79p for a track, even though i can afford it..is stupid. 50p would be better.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

It's nice to know these blisters on the ends of my fingers were not in vain then. :rolleyes:

Re: allofmp3.com
 

A badge of honor no I just tell the truth.I download things for free im not gonna sit here all righteous and say its wrong.And I note you didnt answer my question.I think its worse in those who have copied dvds and cds off there friends or like I said even borrow a dvd then come here holier than thou preaching how wrong it is

Re: allofmp3.com
 

What question did you ask me?

I'm not preaching how wrong it is...what you do is up to you. But you must be aware of the facts, which is what i'm talking about.

The issue I think is pertinent here is that a company is taking your money (which people said that they were so against paying to the record company for some reason) and not paying the REAL people (i.e. people like composers that you've probably never heard of) and to me that is more wrong than just taking it.

And I would take issue about not wearing as a badge. There is no reason to announce that you take music. It had nothing to do with the discussion, which I why I presumed that you were in some way boasting about unauthorised downloading.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

im sure we all agree-i dont want to have to download illegally.
but if you think of it logically-
i generally take a fancy to about 15 tracks a month (i like to the extent that i would be willing to pay for them)
79p a track= £11.85 per month on music downloads.
(hmv unlimited package = £10 per month)
so that means im paying £10 per month for tracks that i cant put on my mp3 player. i cant put them on another pc as you only get 1 copy of licence.
you can't rename/change the tags of the file in order to make it fit into your music collection (ie windows media player library)

i do have an unlimited subscription with hmv, but having to burn and rip EVERY track i download is just stupid.
and, after burning and riping it, guess what? THE TRACK IS ILLEGAL AS IT ISN'T LISCENCE PROTECTED-JUST THE SAME AS GETTING IT OFF LIMEWIRE THEN!!

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Thats what is rediculous about it - why the hell if i have paid for something should i be restricted in how i use it. If the compaines out there be that games, movies, music or whatever want to make it difficult for me to use what i purchase then screw them.

I'll just get them another way.

The music industry is by far the worst though - this money is not going to the artists who create the music - its going to the record companies themselves - who in my opinion stifle creativity by churning out the same old crap by creating groups who will sell records by looking good and who have their music written for them. Generally these same groups are also artificially elevated by big marketing spends which is paid for by the extra subsidies that are levied on all the music they sell.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

I'd agree with you, the restrictions placed on people who do legitimately download music are too restrictive in the main, with the possible exception of iTunes.

However, what's the alternative?

Of course it's not the same as getting it from Limewire. If we were to expand on your analogy then pocketing the £10 note you find in the street is the same as stealing it from someone else's purse, making photocopies of it and then giving the copies to your mates.

Whilst you may be in a technical breach of copyright by ripping the CD back into your PC, so that you can play the song on your iPod, I can categorically tell you right now that, even if you wrote a letter to the CEO of the record company, the management company of the artist and the head of the BPI, telling them all that this is what you'd done - the worst that would happen is that they would laugh at you.

If, on the other hand, you sent letters to the same people telling them that you'd first downloaded a track from Limewite, then burned a few copies for some people you barely knew and then posted the songs you'd found on the newsgroups - I think they might be calling round with a court order.

So, of course it's not the same - and herin lies the problem. You have the record company on the left, you have file-sharer on the right. Each has whipped each other into such a frenzy that there is little common sense being applied anywhere.

If you look back at what you've just posted today, Andy, I can summarise it in a few points:

• Is allofMP3 legitimate?
• I don't want to download illegally.
• I use filesharing systems to download music illegally
• iTunes licensing is too complex
• I can't be bothered downloading legally
• Whatever I have to pay, it's too much
• Making a copy of a song I have bought is the same as downloading it illegally

If I was having this conversation with you in a pub, I'd be laughing my nads off! iTunes licensing is the simplest and most generous of all of them, and DOES allow copies to made for personal use. It DOES allow CDs to be burned. It DOES allow you to back-up the actual audio files. It DOES allow you to make copies onto your iPod. So what's complicated about that?

People who download music in this way, as well as the record companies, need to address this issue like adults. I can already see that the industry has at least given sensible people an alternative - but the bottom line is as I said before - people like things that are a bit dodgy.

You know the bloke in the pub flogging that after shave for a fiver didn't get it from the Calvin Klien warehouse. You know the little Chinese guys outside Farringdon Station selling DVDs of films that aren't even in the cinema yet didn't get them as a present from the Walt Disney Corporation. And you know that downloading music without paying it will ultimately kill off much of the creativity, innovation and great music that has come about in the last few years - but (as the Fast Show said) you're a little whoo, a little bit wha-ay - and that is why people come on here bragging about downloading music to prove what a geezer they are.

These people also wear fake Burberry caps I assume.

it doesn't matter about the moral arguments, it doesn't matter about the financial ones - because you're sticking one up 'the man'.

I hope 'the man' doesn't get pee'd off and start sticking one up you....cos his is much bigger.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

I don't get downloading. People would rather pay nothing to get a file, of dubious legality, poor quality and with zero presentation, or pay about a fiver to do the thing legit, with all the proper sleeves, etc, and better quality?

I buy CDs, and then MP3 them to 192 for my PC, and then convert the 192s to 128 for my walkman so I can fit more on. Don't share them... and I don't use filesharing anyway because it's a potential malware gateway.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

A fiver...? Where d'you get your CDs for a fiver, mate?

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Just to get one thing off my mind, my mate tells me that when i buy a CD in the shops and make copies of it for my own use, am i doing anything dodgey

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Technically it's breach of copyright, but in terms of common sense, no-one will care.
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Depends what's on them, innit?

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Allofmp3 is legal in Russia. Restricting them selling outside Russia would break international trade law which is why it'S still running.

Allofmp3 have been very good with my credit card details (unlike some uk companies I could mention). ;)

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Car boot sale with nice photoshop covers and shrink wrap ;) :LOL:

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Or maybe your local record shop (not chain)? Mine does an excellent range of CDs (all original as far as I can tell) for £5.

The downside is that they don't sell chart CDs in that range (even they start at around £8 or £9).

Re: allofmp3.com
 

As nnfc says, on a technicality you are in breach of copyright - in the same way as people who made a copy of an LP to listen to in the car all those years ago were also.

In addition, whilst maintaining the technicality (mostly as removing it from the laws would allow a loophole just like that which allofMP3 are exploting) the recent EU directive on copyright urged local bodies in its member states to behave 'reasonably' to individuals that do things like copying for their own use. And before some smart-alec pipes up and says that sharing MP3s is personal use - no it's not. Mr EU said so.

Some bloke in the pub ;)

Seriously though, I buy new releases at between 8 and 9 quid each and back catalogue stuff and best-ofs are now dirt cheap...3/4 quid a pop.

Incorrect. I explained the situation with allofMP3 earlier and the fact that they are permitted to operate under a loophole. However they do need the permission of the body that takes care of half of the repertoire in the country - and as they won't speak to anyone (even their counterparts in the other licensing body) allofMP3 actually have NO license to operate in Russia or anywhere else.

The reason they are still operating is becuase the body that needs to take action won't talk to anyone, after a falling-out with their opposites - and so nothing in Russian licensing gets done. This is also why the loophole has yet to be closed.

It will happen, allofMP3 will shut (or move somewhere even more lawless) but it could be many years before this happens.

HOWEVER....if you'd read my earlier post, you would have seen that under the legal precident of Levis vs Tesco, it is the case that the copyright owner (or their representatives) can control how their product is imported. Levis won that case in the UK, Tesco was found to be in breach of copyright by buying 501's quite legally in the US and importing them in to the UK.

This precident, which now forms UK & EU copyright law, means that you, as the importer, are in breach of copyright by not sourcing a copyrighted work from within the EU or seeking the copyright owners permission to import from Russia (which would be denied, one assumes).

So whilst allofMP3 may very well be operating within the law in Russia - YOU are acting ILLEGALLY by downloading from them. Oops.

I'm glad for you...no really, I am!

However, when and if allofMP3 is shut down following a change in the copyright laws in Russia, it is quite possible that the bodies that make up the IFPI (the international umbrella group of many nations' licensing and music industry bodies) may very well press for the Russian courts to order that subsriber information be released, as the subscribers have breach copyright. This might well mean that your credit card information may be used to trace you many years after the fact and you may well be presented with the highly collectable BPI "come to court or pay us 5 grand" invitation.

Good luck. :)

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Fair comments here.

I think it's a little different than with jeans physically being imported. If we had to look into copyright on the stuff available on the Internet every day (e.g. the BBC news website, for example) then millions of people are "illegally" importing and exporting copyright all the time.

I'd better stress here that I don't use AllOfMP3 all the time - it helped me to get some copies of tracks I only have on vinyl (damaged but paid for in full) and which were unavailable on any other site or CD.

A good legal way to copy music in this country is by recording it from TV or radio - still completely legal here in the UK. You have already paid for the copyright and the right to listen to it via the advertising or the BBC licence fee.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Yes, they are. However, as long as no major costs are involved, the breaches in the law are tolerated. Having said that, people HAVE been successfully sued for copyright breaches on the web


Fair enough. Although I personally wouldn't trust an organisation that is happy to operate semi legally with my Credit Card details.

I think off air copying is only allowed if you are a person (and not a company) , and make reasonable efforts to ensure the recording doesn't leave the building in which it was made.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Blimey, I can think of hundreds of well known companies that operate semi-legally... you must live like a hermit if you don't deal with them ;)

Re: allofmp3.com
 

I'd be interested to hear when a person was last prosecuted for recording live radio (or TV for that matter).

Home taping has not killed music, and I doubt downloading will.

For the record, I buy most of my music. I download the occasional track, but when the band's good, I get the cd. If anything, getting an mp3 player (which I transferred 100 cds (all bought) and perhaps 50 downloaded songs onto) revived my interest in music. Now if only the record companies would abandon their obsession with mind-numbing rubbish, there would be something to buy...

Re: allofmp3.com
 

exactly. i take pleasure in buying the cd as you get track listing, album cover, often bonus cd, and loads more.
much better than paying a feq quid less to download it.

and in response to mr "itunes is simple" man, i cant use itunes, guess why? when you download it its in thie wierd format, that is just for ipods! and guess what I have to do then? BURN IT USING ITUNES AND THEN RIP IT AGAIN!
i never share on these p2p programs anyway, but if police were to look at your pc and find 500 tracks with no licence, even though 470 of them had been paid for, burned and ripped, how would the police tell? they wouldn't!
im now considering just buying the cheapest ipod off ebay and using that to play all my tracks, and ill just either buy the cds or use itunes.

but hang on...buying cd's and ripping them is also illegal in the eyes of the law!
so is riding a bycicle without a bell if you are riding on roads!!
so is blocking your ip!
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yes, but then you end up recording it onto what? tape? video?
you get rubbish quality, and if you do eventually get it onto your pc its illegal again! (any track without copyeight licence is illegal)

+ are you gonna sit by your radio for hours waiting for the right track? and probably miss the beginning of it?

although i agree, recording of DAB or digital tv would be ok for quality. (i have neither DAB or digital tv as i find 5 channels quite ok)

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Ah, well that's where copyright law is an interesting beastie...and that's why Levis didn't pursue Tescos for importing physical goods. When we talk of products it is perfectly legal for Mr Tesco to go into a branch of Walmart in the US, buy up his enture stock of 501's (at approx US$ 15 or £9 per pair) stick them in a box, ship them into the UK, pay the UK government VAT and import duty and sell them in your local branch for 15 quid.

What was proven to unlawful, was that the copyright of the jeans, owned by Levi, was infringed when Tescos wanted to sell them in the UK.

So it's not really anything to do with the something that you hold in your hands (or wear on your legs) it's to do with this etherial being that is copyright - and that exists on virtually everything we might phyically own - but we don't buy the copyright when we buy the product. In some cases you might buy a license under copyright (for example you can legally photocopy some pages of a book for some uses such as school work) but you do not own the copyright itself. And whether you're Levi Strauss or Levi Stubbs (geddit?) that remains the same.

It might be a good way, but it's no more legal. You are NOT permited to record music from the radio or television. You are (sort of) permited to make a 'temporary' video recording of a TV programme - which means that (I think I'm right in the duration here) you can keep a VHS of a TV show for 28 days, after which you must wipe it, destroy it or tape over it.

Now back here in the real world of course no-one is going to come knocking at your door becuase your VHS an edition of Top of the Pops is 29 days old - but technically that's the rule.

Also you have not paid for the copyright. The broadcaster pays the various licensing bodies to do various things with music, including broadcast it. There is nothing in the broadcast license (or indeed a commercial dubbing license) that permits the receiver of the programme to make a copy or copies. (In fact the dubbing license expressly forbids it).

Whilst you pay your TV license fee to the BBC and you buy the Cornflakes that are advertised on local radio or ITV - these are separate to any copyright licensing payments and grant you no rights whatsoever to do anything with what has been broadcast, including taping it.

I seriously doubt it as long as it was for personal use. There have been people sued for makiong copies of TV and radio programmes and then selling VHS', DVDs and CDs of them.

What a lot of this boils down to is fair use. Contrary to popular belief there is no 'fair-use' clause or excemption in UK copyright rules. Personally I think there should be, as this would avoid much of the ambiguity that has been demonstrated in this and countless other threads on countless other forums.

However, as I mentioned, there is a guideline (not part of the laws) from the EU that licensing bodies and music industry groups should exercise caution when following the letter of the law to closely.

People tape things off the radio, to me that's fine. People make a cassete copy of a CD they own to listen to in the car, to me that's fine too. People making MP3 of the CDs they own to listen to on their iPods - also fine.

People making those same MP3s available on Limewire, newsgroups, whatever - to me that's crossing the line.

You're right, home taping didn't kill music. Downloading didn't either - and like you I now also don't think it will. But there were a few very touchy years where it came far far closer than most people realise:

Talented artistes were being dropped from rosters in favour of the cheap pop acts that guaranteed a return. This is still happening - and if you look at the roster of any major label today, it's about 50% of the size it was five years ago. That means that 50% of all signed artists no longer have the mechanism to bring you the music that you used to buy (or download).

These people are largely still making music in some way shape or form - but you'll never hear about them and that was a direct result of massive losses at the time Napster was the big baddy. I'm not saying Napster was solely to blame (I think the labels needed to take some responsibility too) but it was alarge contributory factor.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

Most of my CD's were only £2.99 or less - it helps that I happen to like the stuff that often comes out on cheap compilations - Synthesizer classics etc, or "some unknown plays the music of..."

I really ought to have a better stab at seeking out some good free stuff from real unknowns.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

I deal with them.. I don't trust them with my Credit Card however..
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Probably no one has. After all, a court case is going to cost the BPI (or whoever) tens of thousands of pounds. They aren't likely to bother for a member of the public who has just copied two albums illegally. Now, if that member of the public has downloaded hundreds of albums illegally, and is actively distributing them over the net, that would be different.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

I think there has been widespread copying of music on p2p because people realised that they had been ripped of for years with overpriced CDs. Whilst record companies may have the law on their side, in general people with little knowledge of copyright law decide for themselves what is fair and reasonable. People download illegally because they can pick and chose individual tracks they want, not the compilations forced upon them.

Belatedly the record industry got into legal downloads but then decided to put a host of random restrictions on the use of what you'd paid for. The result is people will continue downloading illegally or buy the real CD and rip it to avoid the constraints.

How come a newspaper can give away a CD for free, yet it used to cost £15 in the shops? I think the record industry is doing a balancing act, slowly reducing the price of retail CDs to see when/if downloading slows down to noise levels, whilst in parallel scaring people into taking the legal route. They aren't really interested in legal downloads, they're just searching for the right street price for CDs.

Re: allofmp3.com
 

avoid allofmp3 like the plague, anyone willing to give their credit card info that site are idiots :S