Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I'm absolutely gobsmacked by this - http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...450220,00.html

Sorry, can't sort the link out properly...

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Further proof that the legal system in this country is absolutely ridiculous.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Erm, if I were her I'd sue her lawyer. The law was pretty clear, after all, you've got six years to sue for damages. You can argue whether that's reasonable, but taking a case self-evidently unwinnable in law to court and inevitably losing rather suggests that she was badly advised. She did, after all, have six years in which to legitimately sue, but didn't.

What do you suggest should happen, that people taking obviously opportunist legal action should be let off paying for it when it fails? Perhaps you'd like to pay me to sue you? Lawyers who advise people to bring cases like this are in the wrong, the rapist, in this case, isn't.

Ah, someone else who really doesn't know much about the legal system in this country. Ridiculous would have been if the court had overturned the will of Parliament (who presumably set the six year limit) because the case made the tabloids. You can either live by the law (which, in striving to be fair to everyone, can always be selectively presented as being fair to the undeserving) or campaign to have it replaced by emotion, anger and knee-jerk reaction to tabloid outrage. I'm for the former.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

It may be the law but it sure ain't fair! :(

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I'd agree she should sue her lawyer if the case had no chance of success and she was still advised to go ahead with it.


Shocking as it it, who else should have been asked to pay for it. The courts?

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Damn right its not fair. What on earth is going on with the law these days !!!

:sniper:

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

That's why it's ridiculous.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

It ridiculous as it is, it appears that the solicitor of the woman who was raped probably could've done more.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

hold on a second why did she sue in the first place because of the six year limit, if she has psychological damage whats money going to do to help her ? aside from legal costs, but he won the millions fair and square.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I can see why she sued and I can see why it was overturned but I fail to see why she was ordered to pay £100 000.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Bill C<-------------- Sits back and waits for the following

Think of the rapists humane rights.
How dare that woman try to sue the man that raped her.
We need to send him on a holiday at public expense.
Lets give him free protection in case someone attacks him and make sure he does not pay any of the millions he owns.

I have said it before and i will say it again. The loony tree hugging liberals do gooders have got control of this country GOD HELP US.

May i say how appalled i am at this case it STINKS to high hell and only reinforces my outlook on the loony liberal system we now have running this country.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

presumably because she lost the case, generally there are repercussions for challenging someone and failing to reach the verdict you desire, i still cannot fathom what money would have done to her psycological state :shrug: suing mentality with money grabbing ?

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Fair or not. One has to question why the victim waited until he won the lottery to sue.

Yes it is rough justice (to the law abiding) that he won the money. But you cannot have it both ways. There has to be a limit set and perhaps a law drafted which states "you are not allowed to make a profit whilst serving a sentence when out on day release (or whatever)" would solve the grievance.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I think it would have made her feel a hell of a lot worse knowing that the guy who attacked her had won millions of pounds on a chance lottery...

However as I said I can see why it was turned down.

It's obvious. As I said above I am sure it would make her sick to know that the person who had ruined her life was in the lap of luxury.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Because just because you are awarded damages in court, doesn't mean you'll get them. Ignore the lottery win for the moment, as noone could have predicted it. He would in jail for 16 years before he is even able to earn a wage. After that it is likely that he'll get minimum wage, maybe a touch more at best. If the victim is awarded say 100k, the rapist would have all his possessions sold at auction. That's about all the victim will get. They won't start seeing the money any more 16 years, and even then, the compensation will be repaid at some silly rate like 5 quid a week. In short, it isn't worth it.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Hang on - that's the correct decision.

She sued him. She lost. Someone has to pay the winner's costs. Her solicitors will have advised her of the implications of taking the case to trial. She chose to carry on.

If someone sues you and the court gives judgement in your favour, why should you have to pay the costs you incurred at the behest of the loser?

It may seem harsh, but if she didn't want to risk the possibility of having to pay his costs she shouldn't have brought the proceedings.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

These are the same ones who have got us record numbers of prisoners who are now having to be held in Police cells because our prisons are full...?

:rolleyes:

:walk:

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

...and with some of that money that he won fair and square he has bought an artwork featuring a human figure with a bloody crotch.

link

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Go to prove then how much crime there is. Who said crime was falling if we dont have enough jail space. If crime was failing then there would be space in the jails ?.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Sadly, there's an increase in people being jailed because of debts, which contributes to the overall effect. Thought debtor's prisons were a thing of the past!, prison should be for those who are a danger to the public IMO.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Well, it's his money to spend on whatever he wants.

He's not a ******* because of his choice of artwork; he's a ******* because of what he did to that woman.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

It says to me that he is still capable of raping again and again- it's obviously what floats his boat.
If i like music i'd have a figure of a guitar or something, if i get a kick out of raping/attacking/control/hurting, i might enjoy looking at a human figure with blood coming from the crotch.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

basically he raped her and as his financial position has improved she has decided that it's worthwhile now seeking compensation. appears logical and fair to me. shame the law has a time limit which should be revoked/increased so if someone rapes someone then if they in the future have a windfall, they should then pay compensation.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Ok just my pov in this dont bite my head off for it ...
She saw that he had won millions of money and wanted some of it (greed) she locked onto this and was determined to get some, ignored advice given to her and was just after the money. The court saw this and made an example of her so other people wont be so foolish and that she wont be able to try again

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Ok this is a sensative thing, because this guy lives in the region I do.

However.....

1) He did NOT rape this woman, he was convicted of attempted rape on her
2) she suffered psychological injuries AFTER this happened.
3) since 1989 she had not thought to claim compensation, but because he suddenly gained a few million she decided that getting a share of that would miraculously make things better?

The judge was right, if the time limit is 6 years then the time limit is 6 years, it doesnt matter what happened. The law is written down why should it be different just because this convicted and time served rapist has won the lottery?
If she was allowed to sue him that would make a mockery of the law too as it would be making exceptions to the written law, and would open up a whole can of worms.
This guy as evil as he is has served his time, his debt to society is paid in the eyes of the law, if the system is not carefull they will end up on the wrong side of european law as the guy is being hounded.

To me its all jealousy that he was fortunate to win the lottery, would it even have made headlines if he hadnt? would he have been sued if he hadnt?
No its just sheer greed and jealousy that has motivated this.

__________________________________________________ ______________

Its like the double jeopardy law, A local woman Mrs Anne Ming is trying to overturn the law because of the murder of her daughter Julie hogg by a Mr Billy Dunlop. He was tried and found innocent, but has since confided in a prison officer that he did kill her. Why should the family not be able to receive justice? The answer is as awfull as it is that is the CURRENT LAW.
__________________________________________________ ______________
I understand that the crime ATTEMPTED on the victim of Mr Hoare was a terrible one, however he has received his punishment, he is publically outed as a rapist. Because he now happens to be a millionaire does not excuse people trying to make a mockery of the law, if this woman wanted to sue hiom she should have done so within the permitted 6 years. The Fact she didnt makes me believe that it is money orientated and thats just another name for Greed.

I stand by to be roasted in hell for this but I honestly 100% believe Mr Hoare should now be left alone. And this lady should be content with the criminal injuries compensation she will have received.
What makes her more special than thousands of other women that have been raped or the victim of an attempted rape, should they all have an indefinate period to sue just in case the perpetrator of the crime should make somehting of themselves?

£5000 criminal injuries, doesnt sound much does it, however When I was assaulted unprovoked when I was 13 I was awarded £750, since then and over 6 years after that happened I am now partially sited in one eye directly as a consequence of the assault and am likely to be blind in that eye later in life. I didnt have the option to pay back and go for more money, I have had mental problems associated with the violent attack, and if the guy that did it (and yes I still see him about) won the lottery I wouldnt expect to sue him.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Crime is falling , but sentencing has got tougher.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Is that reported crime or real crime where the average joe does not report it because the police do naff all about it. Unless its a victim then they are after them with all the powers they can muster :) :LOL:

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Oh I know that, I just thought I'd point out what kind of person he still is and that he is apparently unrepentant at this time.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

He should spend some of it paying for his 24 hour security,That he is or was getting at tax payers expense.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Both indicators are down.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Should get the people that do those figures to do my tax return then. That needs to reduce even when i am earning more.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Well it might not be falling in Bronx-like Cheshire!! ;) But it is falling nationally. Of course, you may choose not to believe it (as many others do, but there is a significant body of evidence to show that is the case).

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

You mean the security he's needed because newspapers print details of where he lives and idiotic vigilantes think they have the right to take the law into their own hands...? :rolleyes:

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I don't always agree with vigilantes, but thing might be different if I was personally affected.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I don't agree with vigilantes full stop.

To say that I would change my tune if it was me that was affected would be sheer hypocrisy.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Look at that Stephen Lawrence kid that was murdered the police knew who did it but they walked out of court laughing and saying upyours to the system. In that case they deserve a good kicking.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Simple he should not of broke the law in the first place then he would not have needed the protection. Anyway as far as i am concerned he can go rot in hell i cannot stand sex attackers they are amongs the lowest of the low.
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Well said. But don't let the tree hug-in loony libs near them. They will end up letting them sue the victim. :rolleyes:

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I would think he needs security because the majority of right minded people abhor the fact that we have a system that allows people like this to settle in open society.

Amongst those right minded people (many millions), it is inevitable that some may take action against people of this kind, feeling that †œthe systemââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ� had failed.

Were he to be where he belonged, this discussion would be unnecessary.



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Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

The Stephen Lawrence case was an absolute travesty caused by, as the MacPherson report said, "instititutional racism" in the Police Force.

But it is not down to you, me or anyone else to decide that, because *we* don't like what happened, we should start "administering justice" (read "getting revenge") ourselves.
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So anyone who breaks the law is thereby "fair game" to any bigotted vigilante? :rolleyes:

Wonderful, great.

Now try reading this story about a guy who did *NOTHING* wrong, yet, because of the actions of some narrow-minded (or should that be "like minded"?) individuals who share your opinions, had his business, his family and practically his whole life *DESTROYED* by petty vigilantes.

Read it and tell me that you think the people who persecuted him were doing the "right thing".

Yes, we've seen your prejudices, thank you.

Now try doing a little research and a bit of thinking instead of trotting out the same tired old bigotted nonsense.
__________________

I think you mean "right wing minded"...

We have a system whereby someone who is convicted and found guilty of a crime is sentenced to jail and then released "having paid their debt to society".

Unfortunately it seems that some "right minded" (or, as above, "narrow minded") people aren't willing to accept that.

<irony>

What is the readership of the Daily Mail?

</irony>

He was in jail. He has served his time. His sentence is *OVER*.

It is not for you or those "millions" of "right thinking" people to take matters into your own hands if you don't like the way the system works.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Graham,

I stand by my original statement †œI would think he needs security because the majority of right minded people abhor the fact that we have a system that allows people like this to settle in open society.ââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ�

By right, I intended to mean people who think in the correct way, not a political leaning as you seem to have implied.

This guy had been jailed several times previously for committing sexual attacks, including rape, two attempted rapes and three indecent assaults. His latest release was after serving a term for an attempted rape of a 59 year old.

I can only ask, how can one justify releasing such a person to live in open society, regardless of political leaning? He is a proven, serial sex offender. Perhaps you would care to explain?

Similarly, I stand by my statement thatââ‚ ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� Amongst those right minded people (many millions), it is inevitable that some may take action against people of this kind, feeling that †œthe systemââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ� had failed them"

I did not say, or imply, that I disagreed with a system that released someone who had served a sentence and †œpaid their debt to societyââ‚à ‚¬Ã‚ÂÂ�

However, a large proportion of our population think that the system has failed when it allows a serial sex attacker such as this to be free to roam our streets. Whilst not condoning their actions, it is inevitable that some will seek to administer rough justice. Hence the need to protect released prisoners such as these.


I will ignore you newspaper remark as I feel it adds nothing to the discussion and was only added to inflame.

I absolutely agree.


However, I would think that a more responsible attitude would be rather than arguing for the rights of serial sex attackers, peopleââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s time might be better spent campaigning for their eternal incarceration.



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Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

And I stand by my opinion that we have an independant judiciary and it is far better that *THEY* make decisions about who should be in or out of jail and where they can settle than some ill-informed "right thinking" (in their own minds) citizenry who think that lynch mobs are a good way of dealing with problems.

You used the experssion "the majority of right minded people". I was merely using irony to point out that it seems to be mostly those on the *political* right wing (hence "right wing minded") who seem to agree with you.

I am not the one you should be asking for explanations from.

Ask the Judge, ask your MP. If you don't like the way the system works, use *LEGAL* methods to get it changed, but don't assume that just because *you* don't like it, it is necessarily *wrong*.

Who are these "many millions"? Where did you get this figure from? Can you back it up with anything or is it just hyperbole to make your opinion sound more valid?

And, once again, just because someone thinks "the system has failed them" it does *not* justify lynch mobs.

Then *why* did you ask me "how can one justify releasing such a person to live in open society, regardless of political leaning?"?

Why did you say "Were he to be where he belonged, this discussion would be unnecessary."?

The implication certainly seems to me to be that you disagree with what "the system" has done!

It was *IRONY* I believe I pointed this out when I made it...!!!

You "absolutely agree"...??

See my questions above.

Fine, that is your opinion and you are free to hold it.

However please *don't* make the mistake of claiming that I am "arguing for the rights of serial sex attackers", nor that (as I am sure some will want to believe) that I "think criminals should have more rights than victims" because that would be to (as usual) completely misunderstand where I am coming from.

I do not and will not pick and choose who has rights and who does not. *EVERYONE* should have the same rights whether they have been convicted a crime or not. If they have been convicted of a crime they should, yes, lose *some* of those rights (eg liberty) whilst paying their debt to society, but once it has been *paid* they should have their rights restored.

You have the right to petition Parliament through your MP and campaign for "eternal incarceration", I have the right to campaign for *everyone's* rights.

You take your path, I will take mine.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Yes I do disagree with what the system has done. I believe that serial rapist should never be released back into open society.

I have no wish to politicise this discussion; I have little doubt that the majority of the population wish to keep serial sex attackers away from open society, regardless of their political leaning. (Although as you point out, I have no proof, it is just a gut feeling).

Certainly there are a vociferous bunch of people of certain political leaning that will defend the most bizarre activities in the name of †œcivil libertiesââ‚ ¬ÂÂÂÂ�. Personally, I think they have lost the plot when they extend their campaign to include the †œrightsà¢ÃƒÆ’¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Âà ‚Â� of serial rapist.

As a general principle I agree, however, when the system releases serial rapist (who by the very nature of their description are likely to commit similar crimes again) it makes this very correct principle hard to defend.

Hence, it is my belief that the system is failing when it releases people (who are likely to do real harm to their fellow citizens) back into open society.





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Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I give up.. this country is nuts.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Pardon me if I suggest there seems to be a slight contradiction between these two paragraphs.

And I remind you again of what I said (and which you quoted and agreed with) just below here:

Maybe it is failing, or, at least, maybe it has failed in the case of this man.

However it has *not* failed in the context of this thread where this woman who, I can only assume was very poorly advised, decided to sue for compensation and lost her case because her action was taken outside of the period the law permits.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I disagree that they're of a 'certain political leaning', whatever that may mean (left-wing, presumably). Quite a lot of them are judges, who aren't usually card-carrying communists, being overwhelmingly middle-aged white males who went to good schools and universities*.

I think the defining feature isn't political leaning, rather an awareness of why the rule of law is necessary (to provide a peaceful way of resolving disputes and stop vigilante justice, for starters) and why, in order for this necessary environment to come about, the law has to apply to everyone equally, or no one. That this includes the dregs of society is regrettably necessary, unless someone would care to propose a better solution?

I could throw a large cat amongst the pigeons by pointing out the existence of a vociferous bunch whose historical and political education is lacking to the extent that they want to use a few examples puffed up in tabloid newspapers to chuck out millennia of British legal history, apparently dismissing the correct operation of the law as passed by the Mother of Parliaments as 'bizarre activities'. What tends to amuse me is that such radical thinkers often think of themselves as 'conservatives'. Anarchists would be more appropriate.

* Mind you, that was where the KGB used to recruit...

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

If the legal system in this country had any humanity, the guy would have been locked up never to be released. Those who say that prison should be about refor and rehabilitation, should consider why this guy repeatdly offended. They should also question the oft-stated belief that prisoners learn to be worse criminals. Did this guy go to prison as a shoplifter? No, he was and always will be a sex offender.

On the subject of the woman claiming compo many years later, no, she probably shouldn't have. But the advice given at the time of offences *yes, I have personal experience) is that "you may win the case, but they may not have two pennies, so you will lose out anyway". One needs to ask how and why a convicted sex offender was given the opportunity to win millions in the first place.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Well, I'm assuming he walked into a shop selling lottery tickets, and bought one. Isn't that how it usually works?

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Yes, very clever. Try reading my post again. It is pretty simple, you should be able to make sense of it.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

He was given the opportunity to win millions because there is no law to stop him from doing so.

Herein lies the main problem (IMO) in the logic of the 'lock 'em up and throw away the key' brigade (and no, that's not directed at anyone in particular). If you have a law that stops ex-prisoners from buying lottery tickets, that law will apply to all prisoners.

This means that that OAP and the retired vicar would not be able to buy them. Their crime? Not paying their council tax. Not exactly what you'd call at the hard edge of violent crime.

Unfortunately, and as much as people may not like it, Hoare was on release (I believe it was day release) from prison, as his sentence was drawing to an end. He bought a lottery ticket and was lucky enough to win. That's it. There are no laws to prevent this, so there's nothing anybody can do about (regardless of whether you think he should remain in jail forever).

The flip side is that there is also a law that limits the time a victim of crime has to pursue the perpetrator for damages (or whatever). If they fail to pursue their claim within that time limit, then I'm afraid that really is tough.

If you believe the law should be changed, then fine, that's your opinion. However, don't forget that this woman pursued this claim purely because he won some money - ultimately, she lost out. What would have happened if Hoare had stayed in jail? I can guarantee that she wouldn't have received any money than.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I understand all of that Nug. My points were twofold. Firstly, IMO he should have been locked up for good; secondly, although on day release he was still technically a prisoner, and (again IMO) should not have had the opportunity to buy a ticket in the first place. All IMO you understand.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I agree with you (for once ;) )

As I've said, the problem is that, without overhauling the entire legal system, nothing can or will change.

You know from previous discussions that I believe that, regardless of the crime, once your sentence has been served, you should be released, and this includes all criminals. Now, the severity of Hoares crimes raise a question about his sentencing in the first place, although that is a different topic entirely.

Unfortunately, I personally feel that this woman was misguided in pushing for compensation after the time limit. Equally unfortunately, a convicted rapist won several million pounds on the lottery. I'm not saying that I agree with it, just that I understand how it happens.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I've read your post again. Agree it's pretty simple, I believe I've made sense of it.

And I still stand by my last post ;)
__________________

How, as a prisoner on day release, could he *not* have had the opportunity to buy a lottery ticket ?

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Ok, so even though on day release, let's say he shouldn't have had the opportunity to buy a lottery ticket.

What about a packet of cigarettes?

What about a pint of beer?

What about a pint of milk?

What about putting a quid in a fruit machine in the pub?

What about putting a bet on a horse in a bookies?

Where would you draw the line and how exactly would you enforce it?

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Don't give him any money ;)

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Well, Paddy's idea would be quite simple, but effective! But if you read my earlier posts Graham, you will see that I believed he should just have been incarcerated for life.

The things that you mention suggest that he should be out on day release as some sort of pleasure trip? Tell me, would he be allowed to have five or six pints on day release? Or drive a car? Or chat up women? Someone somewhere has already drawn a line.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

So he borrows a tenner from a mate.

Yes, but then you went on to say "although on day release he was still technically a prisoner, and (again IMO) should not have had the opportunity to buy a ticket in the first place." which suggests that, as a general principle, you think that prisoners *should* be allowed out on day release, but denied the ability to do some things, so I was trying to find out exactly what things you would consider "acceptable" and which would be "unacceptable" for a day release prisoner.

Yes, there are and should be some restrictions (eg IIRC Jeffrey Archer was locked back up after going to a party whilst on Day Release!) and no, Day Release is not some sort of pleasure trip.

The Commons Select Committee on Home Affairs had the following to say about Day Release on the 7th of January 2005:

* * * * *

[...] "The best way of reducing re-offending is to ensure that prisoners on their release have the ability to get into work and a home to go to."

[...]

"Overcrowding is having a hugely damaging impact on the delivery of rehabilitative regimes across the prison estate, both in terms of quality and quantity of appropriate interventions. We express scepticism about the Home Office's projection that the prison population will stabilise at about 80,000 by the end of the present decade, exactly matching estimated capacity. This projection depends on very large assumptions about the net effect of sentencing changes.

"Regrettably, overcrowding is likely to remain a feature of our prison system for the foreseeable future. It should not be used as an excuse for ignoring the issue of rehabilitation and failing to follow examples of good practice."

[...]

"There should be much greater use of day release schemes on the German model to enable prisoners to experience work in the community prior to their release, and demonstrate their abilities and trustworthiness to employers."

[...]

"The complacent thinking that nothing can be done to rehabilitate short-term prisoners has crippled the response to rehabilitative treatment of those prisoners. A radical rethink is required. This should comprise effective assessment, provision of work and training, and assistance with resettlement."

http://www.publications.parliament.u.../193/19303.htm

* * * * *

But short of following a prisoner around all the time or having some sort of GPS tracking to record *exactly* where he goes or making them wear a big badge that says "Prisoner on Day Release, don't sell me a lottery ticket", there's really no way that you can prevent them from doing all the sorts of things that appear so unacceptable to some.

And, one final point, if he'd only won a tenner, would there *really* have been such a great fuss about this...?

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

As a general rule, I don't think prisoners should be let out on day release.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

:shrug:

The Home Office Select Committee disagrees with you.

PS and so do I :)

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Sure, and I have no problem with that. I was just stating my belief. To me, it should be prison until you are released. But then I do have (apparently) quite Draconian views on that ;)

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

The last thing we'd want is for offenders who have been incarcerated for some time to be gradually given experience of the outside world. Best to just chuck em out when they've served their sentence, let em sink or swim and watch re-offending rates rise even higher than the absurd level they are already at. :rolleyes:

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I am guessing that's a hypothetical situation. Graham and I were simply exchanging opinions, without sarcasm. Since the reverse scenario is not in play, it wouldn't be fair of me to say what "might" or "might not" happen.

Please stop the baiting. Think of your signature.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Unfortunately, what this all really boils down to is this:

• Sometimes good things happen to bad people.
• Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
• Life isn't always fair.

There's a one in 14 million chance that a lottery ticket bought by a prisoner on day release will come up with the jackpot.

I suspect that there's more than a one in 14 million chance that a prisoner -denied day release just because of the theoretical possibility they might buy a winning lottery ticket- will reoffend on their eventual release because they haven't been integrated back into society properly.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Your point being?

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Yes, very clever. Try reading my post again. It is pretty simple, you should be able to make sense of it. ;)

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

I am just struggling to understand the rather tenuous link between buying a lottery ticket and reoffending :confused:

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

What I'm saying is: this thread seems to be now focusing on thinking of ways of stopping people on day release from prison from doing what most people consider 'normal' activities, apparantly in case they have some fun/win millions on the lottery.

But these 'solutions' seem to me to be bound to backfire; day release of prisoners is a good thing, to help them get back into society. Society pays if prisoners are just dumped back into freedom with no job, prospects, or stake in the community, much more than it pays because the odd ******* gets lucky courtesy of Guinevere or whatever.

My post was a reply to these 'GRR! Bad man gets lucky! How can we stop this happening again?' type posts, which I just think are pointless.

Clear as mud now? ;)

PS - Do you forgive me for bouncing your own post back at you? It was too good an opportunity to resist ;):)

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

Oh Cookie, today I am in a forgiving mood - very rare for me though!

I now see your point, but still go back to my initial belief that this particular offender should never have been released.

As for what prisoners do on day release, well there obviously have to be restrictions. Are they allowed to gamble - the lottery is classed as gambling, I believe. I guess they are not allowed to drive, nor to drink alcohol. It's an interesting point.

Re: Rapist to have legal costs paid for by his victim
 

A good point albeit one that's been made before - repetition clearly required ;) - although not as eloquently.