[Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4280040.stm

I know we have to pay our dues but this is just pointless.Some councils seem to have gone crazy with the increases they are asking for this year. :(

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

If you willingly refuse to pay your taxes, I don't think age should come into it.

Some people retire at 50, so technically become pensioners (i.e. living off a pension... does that give them the right to not pay their taxes).

The law's the law, and we all have to pay taxes. I'd like to cherry pick the taxes I pay but unfortunately I can't. I don't see why older people should be able to either.

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

But she wasn't refusing to pay her tax, was she? Just trying to get the point across that her pension had not increased at the same rate her couincil tax had - how on earth is she supposed to pay for it?

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Could you live on a pension when the local council has put up your tax by six times the increase to your fixed income?With the increases in gas,electricity,water to find as well.I am not looking forward to retirement at all.IF the pension was a decent one that took in account all the increases for all then I would have less sympathy. :erm:

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Whilst I appaud her actions in standing up for her beliefs I am also acutely aware of how much the Goverment actually control the amount of council tax charged, both by deciding on what subsidy will be given (from business rates) and then setting a 5% cap. Councilors will soon to be concentrating on the period of juggling the books for next year.

Not to mention the extra workload of Licencing without any funding.

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

This isn't about choosing not to pay as such. It's about protesting about the ridiculous increases some councils have put on the tax.

She has paid her council tax, except the £53 pound increase.

In many cases the councils have increased the tax well above the general rate of inflation hence hitting pockets harder.

It was not so long ago my council tax was half what it is now. I can assure you that my income has not doubled in that time!

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

There is a big difference with being unwilling to pay, and unable to pay. I thought I made that quite clear in my post. She falls in the former category.

If she genuinely can't afford to pay, then she would go to the council, and she follow the appropriate channels, and probably not pay it anyway.

About the pension side of things, I do think its terrible you contribute so much in taxes over the years, and the government gives you nothing back, but I also believe people should take responsibility and care for themselves. I have for years been taking steps to ensure when I am an OAP, I won't be living off tins of expired cat food.

She isn't destitute, she's refusing to pay it on principle. She should be dealt in exactly the same way as everyone else. Age and gender should not come into it.

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

There was a very sad case in the news about 10 years ago, about a child dying from effects of physical abuse - the mother and stepfather were put on trial, but because it couldn't be pin pointed who actually struck the blow that killed the little girl, they both got off free.

Now, we've sent a pensioner to prison for not paying £54 worth of council tax. WTF is going on in this country???... :confused: :(

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Good for her. :tu: :)
I think councils (and the govt) are far too cavalier about how they tax us (and how they spend our tax money) :(

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Unfortunately local politics in the UK is in the main still far too closely connected to the national. The electorate is becoming more sophisticated, but too often local elections are settled on national issues. That means a Labour council administering a solid Labour heartland area - like a major metropolitan council for example - feels little obligation towards its hapless council taxpayers. They'll still vote Labour come polling day, even if it's a monkey wearing the rosette (and sometimes it is :erm: ). The same can of course be said for traditional Tory strongholds, such as the English shires.

There are happy exceptions to this; even socialist Liverpool eventually got fed up with its city council being run by militant idiots like Hatton and his cohort and voted Lib Dem, but in the main, I think we get the government we deserve. If we want to force councils to be cannier with our cash, we have to make them understand that we are prepared to vote them down.

And while I'm no fan of PR for Westminster (another topic entirely), I do think forcing PR along the Holyrood model would be very useful in our local councils. In the absence of some of the voters giving up their entrenched Party loyalties, it's probably the only thing that is capable of shaking up some of our more moribund one-party municipalities.

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

No the government should redefine inflation to include the following things.

All compulsary taxes such as council tax
Housing costs
Petrol

Then salaries and benefits would be going up by a fair amount.

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

My income has stayed pretty much the same for the last 3 years. My bills keep going up. I have to carry on living within my means. I don't see whay this woman should be allowed to get away with it. Before anyone starts defending the suffering pensioners, remember that young people today will almost certainly be worse off when they retire than pensioners are now.

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

why did she have to go to prison,don't they have bailiffs where she lives.
its just another example of the judicial system in this country,yobs and thieves get tagged, oap's get sent to prison.
but then again thats just what i've come to expect in blair's britain.

Court jails 73-year-old council tax rebel
 

http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/article.asp...e=windows-1252

I really honestly dont know what to make of this.

Re: Court jails 73-year-old council tax rebel
 

What are they going to gain from this? This pensioner stood up for her rights and it stinks to high heaven that she's been jailed.

Re: Court jails 73-year-old council tax rebel
 

The irony is she will not pay her 53£ on principle which is fair play imo. Taxation in the UK is unfair, if more followed her exemplary example the government would be up **** creek. Any way it is now going to cost you as well Punky being the idilic taxpayer at least £300 in prison care, and thats without any extra care she may need with her ill health and special dietry needs. Still you lot carry on sucking up to the candidates on polling day, its your funerul, they will screw you all over and over again, telling you you have untold freedom in Britain which in reality is ther biggest load of BS ever to be told, still most people will allways believe the propoganda spread about by the authorities and media when in reality they own your asses, all the way to the grave.

Re: Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Well think about it, if they get away with it now it sets a standard for the future and gives them the licence to treat more the same.

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Its quite simple really, By not paying for whatever reason, she is breaking the law, that is punishable by a jail sentence. Whats the problem?

I dont earn much money, and I have to pay for prescriptions, council tax, mortgage or rent, income tax, savings tax, road tax, fuel tax. I have to pay for household bills, so can I refuse to pay because my wages dont increas in line with council tax increases?

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

You're 29 and presuming you're of decent health, you can go get a second job to help with the increases you face. I very much doubt a pensioner of 73 has quite so much choice. I still can't believe that people who cause GBH, or any kind of assault can get off with a crappy CS order, but they send a 73 year old lady to jail. Lunacy. :monkey:

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

I think jail should be for people who are a danger to society; this woman clearly isn't. I also think jail should be for repeat offenders; I don't believe this woman is. Thirdly, I think prison should be to teach people discipline and respect; I think this lady showed a large measure of both.

Yes, she broke the law, and yes, she should suffer for it. But surely there must be some more fitting punishment? Especially when (as has been mentioned) offenders far more deserving of jail are given more lenient sentences/punishments.

The thing that amazes me is the apparent gusto with which the council have pursued this woman. It would be nice if they were so dilligent in their everyday duties...

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

But I would still go to jail for not paying council tax, and I wouldnt have to be a repeat offender. And why should I take a second job, pay more income tax, pay more savings tax, more fuel tax just to cover the increase in council tax?

Re: Court jails 73-year-old council tax rebel
 

The point is that noone is above the law, I don't care how old they are, what gender they are, or what principles that stand up for. In the eyes of justice, we are all equal.

OK, so let her get away with it. Pretty soon every pensioner will start doing it. It will cost us a damn sight more then won't it? Hell, let's the the 50 year old pensioners get away with it. Pretty soon everyone will be at it.

OR, because she's old, lets not send us to jail. Look over there, there is a 73 year old paedophile. He's old, on a pension, shall we let him off the hook too? Not quite. The law is there for everyone, and everyone should follow it, no exceptions. I don't care if you are an old woman, or a young male copper. Noone is above the law

Re: Court jails 73-year-old council tax rebel
 

Punky, if you seriously think you can sensibly compare a paedophile with a pensioner that refused to pay the increase in her council tax, you really do need to get a grip. :rolleyes:

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

What would be a suitable non-custodial sentence for her though mate? Another fine? If you do, and she doesn't pay that, which she probably won't, then she'll end up in jail anyway (and for more than 7 days probably). You could give her a community service order, but I think finding her a CS position could be quite hard.

Agreed. I know for a fact that there are families that are fairly well off that get away with worse. Neither should, but the council should get their priorities right anyway.
__________________

The point is noone is above the law, in case you missed it the last 3 times I said it. It doesn't matter how serious or how trivial the crime. Its still a crime, and it still carries a punishment.

OK, so a pensioner gets caught speeding, we let them off because they are old? Parking tickets? We let them off those because they are old? When exactly do you become old, and so above the law?

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Well, by the sounds of it she's not on her uppers; so I would have thought that bailiffs could recover sufficient assets to cover the debt? Not an ideal scenario, but a lot less unsavoury than prison IMO.

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

AFAIK, no-one with a speeding or parking ticket has been sent to jail.... I haven't missed that she's not above the law. But a jail sentence is ridiculous. :nono:

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Yes, but only in this circume stance. Its a bit like shutting the door after the horse has bolted. She might have means to recover the debt, but if others follow her lead, they might not. The point is to discourage others from following her example with a harsh punishment. I won't say its not harsh on her, but she knew what she was doing, deliberately sticking a finger up at the law, DPP and justice in general. What did she expect?

You could give her a suspended sentence, but she probably still wouldn't pay the council tax and end up in jail anyway.

Firstly, a speeding ticket is a fine. Non-payment of a fine almost always follows with a custodial sentence. A parking ticket is civil, so the rules are different, but she'd still be held accountable. See first paragraph.

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Although I can't advocate people taking it upon themselves to not pay taxes, I have the upmost sympathy for pensioners and their tax burden and I think something needs to be done about it.

If it was me, in her position, I'd probably do the same.

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Am I right in thinking that the sentance will thus extinguish the debt, her debt being paid by the custodial sentence?
If we are not careful many pensioners may start considering this with the target to be in prision during February and save on the winter fuel costs.

Re: [merged]Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

No the debt will remain.

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

The reality is if a tax is unfair, or administered in an unfair way, can it be deemed as just If its unjust then any judgment made backing that tax is also unjust

The only difference between an unjust tax and criminal extortion or a street mugger is that tax has the backing of laws It is created by civil servants, it is administered by civil servants, it is enforced by civil servants and any judgements are made by civil servants. They all belong to the same gang

The difference between her and those who say ye tax isnt allways fair but it has to be payed, if you dont pay you deserve to fall foul of the law is, she had the balls to stand up for herself, something which this country is lacking in considerably in recent years, she has more balls than most of this country put together.

Today imo has very little difference to the robin hood movies we have seen, except today they dont burn your straw huts, they take everything you own and sell it.

My friends believe it or not we live in a democratic oppressive regiem, but the people you vote for all eat at the same gentlemens clubs, play on the same golf course etc.
Still you cant fool all the people all the time but you can fool most of the people most of the time, and thats enough to make it count for them.

And as a footnote: noone is above the law, oh my that has to be the biggest understatement this millenium, who do you think is responsible for the importation of billions of kilo's of heroin and cocaine to the UK ? your average street dealer who was likely to have been coaxed into being an addict, your average house boy who retains a kilo or 2 ? or someone with substantial amounts of money that usually has a big and legit business aswell, and most likely donates to one of the parties you vote, we never hear of those people actually getting arrested, they may lose 20% of their shipments each year, but just maybe they specifically tip off about some shipments to keep the masses happy and of the opinion something is being done, the rest gets through without a hitch. Many home boys who house a kilo or 2 are also beyond the law, many have been done and let out and permitted to continue with their business in exchange for information.

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

It may be slightly off topic, but I returned to the UK yesterday and was told that... the wonderful Mr. Prescott has apparently not paid his Council Tax. Anyone know if it's true?

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

She's out.

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

The tv program bailiff's is about people been chased up for council tax as well an absolute disgrace.

Nearly every house they went into the person was poor and had no goods to cover the debt.

Re: Court jails 73-year-old council tax rebel
 

:td: Na I think it is a fair post as you seem to think grave robbing is admirable as long as it is for the right cause.

:D

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

A mysterious mr Brown has paid her bill and demanded her release so they had to release her, but she is not happy as she was refusing to pay in protest.:shrug:

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

She said she had no regrets and will refuse to pay her council tax again, so looks like she'll be in prison again before long, and for more than 1 or 7 days... Eventually she'll learn she isn't above the law.

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

At no stage has she said she believes she's above the law. She knows she's breaking the law but feels she has no option under the circumstances. Non-payment campaigns do work, remember. That's why we don't still have the Poll Tax.

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

In fairness, we don't have the Poll Tax because the government couldn't afford to keep repairing all the damage caused in the riots ;)

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Yup, but some are convinced she's doing nothing wrong, nothing to deserve punishment. The reason I have no sympathy for her is precisely why you have said...

Re: [Merged] Prison for tax protest pensioner
 

Good old Gordon, I knew he'd come good

Prison for Council Tax non payment
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4290596.stm

These are the exact people who complain when their services are cut due to lack of funds................lock them all up (I say) then cancel their bus service that would save some money !

Re: [Merged] Prison for Council Tax Protest Pensioner
 

I put it that some people here actually agree with the legal mugging/extorion the government do against the weak, now we have to ask why, it couldnt be because they are scared that any cuts that would make it fair on those that need fairness would increase costs to said people. Actually I amend how much it costs to house a person in prison, it was £27,000 per year per prisoner in 2003, so around the £600 mark per weak, looking forward to many more pensioners following in her example and then it will really start to cost the tax payers and Mr Brown, or any other government official is not going to be able to bail them all out to save such controversal grace.

Some of you moan when an OAP is beaten in the street or home for their measly pension but when the government do it with the backing of the law you slap the grannies and grandads down, imo you are the appitamy of two facedness of this country, and with so many today having this attitude its really no wonder the great UK has become what it is today a complete pile of garbage.

Re: [Merged] Prison for Council Tax Protest Pensioner
 

so much for 'having paid their(her) debt to society' which is the normal refrain when your average 'con' is released and is being hounded out of town or similar

Seems she would have paid off her debt to society but not to the council !
(assuming someone hadn't stuck their oar in and paid it for her)

Re: [Merged] Prison for Council Tax Protest Pensioner
 

Well said, its no problem taxing the weak and poor since it means the better of pay less taxes and that makes them happy.