FM Hook-up
 

Customers in a number of areas along with their analogue cable service were provided with the ability to listen to a variety of FM stations (30!) rebroadcast on new frequencies (in my case, by NTL), Through the years this has worked exrtemely wel, and survived the change to digital and broadband.

One of the radio channels is now distorted and unlistenable, whilst the other - BBC Radio Scotland - has disappeared from its allotted frequency. My problem is in getting anyone in CS to even know the service exists! Because it is not billed, and the service predates most of the staff there, I cannot raise a fault report on it, and promised call-backs for 'a man that knows' never materialises.

Does anyone know how to repot this as an issue? Oh, and in answer to those that might suggest it is not a service ntl actively provides, this is true - as the FM isolators are as rare as hen's teeth, however, the service IS still provided and you can be sure it would be removed instantly if bandwidth recovery was required.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Try using the Responsetek tool ...

Re: FM Hook-up
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=81

If you get no joy using this PM me.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

OK will do! Thanks!

Re: FM Hook-up
 

As Digital is taking over & you get radio on that,the FM hook up is being wound down.I have'nt fitted one in over 5 years!

Re: FM Hook-up
 

same here in newport wales the service needs sorting i can not use te digital radio on the samsung 2100 as it has no phono output lol,

so how can i get the fm service in neport wales original langly area sorted some of the channels need retuneing at the headend

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Any cable hookup point has a FM hook on it (well all my three do). I've always wondered about this one as you are connecting non NTL equipment into their cable, a nono according to T&C.

Re Digital - you would need an additional STB to feed the digital into the audio system, wheras at the moment you can listen to the FM on your stereo in room A and watch TV in room B while there are a lot of digital radio channels in the 800's? I can't listen to that on anything but my TV or without paying £15 a month for a second STB to plug into the HiFi.
I could also buy outright a DAB reciever, however i "may" recieve (variable coverage)
Capital
Virgin
Classic
Talk Sport etc, which would be a far poorer proposition than the current FM broadcast or cablecast service.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Your Samsung box should have some kind of video output, mob227, and would need to be able output audio, too - these may be combined in one connector.

If it has a SCART or s-video output, for instance, then there will be audio out on some of the pins there.

Whoops, sorry! I don't use the FM analog service - for that, you need a splitter at the box where the cable comes into your house; this will separate the FM (it's RF, not audio) signal from the TV/Broadband one. Without this, you can't receive the FM signals separately.

What you may be thinking of are the radio channels that are included in the channel lineup - yes, you would use the audio outputs for these.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

For those that don't already know, there are full details about how to do this here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/altisuk/fm/index.htm

;)

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Ah - that must be a technical term! :) I think you mean it's not been actively promoted. Funnily enough, ntl used to relay EIGHT free Music Choice channels, but these are now silent, literally. The audio feed is gone, but the silent carrier is being modulated, and stereo encoded! For those areas that do not allow the use of rooftop aerials, ntl's FM hook-up was part of the deal, and I doubt they'll be able to remove it without adequate consultation.

Seriously though, NTL should either offer a service, or withdraw it. As it hasn't been withdrawn, then as a paying customer using the service, surely I have a right to expect they will continue to maintain it until the service is withdrawn? That said, the inability to report a channel drifting off-tune is most annoying,especially when ntl staff attempt to tell me I can only get radio via the STB!

Re: FM Hook-up
 

im a tv & satellite engineer and know how to connect phono outputs up i can not split the scart outputs as im useing both scart outputs plus i would not like to wreck one of my £50 scart leads that is trade price as the ones im useing retail for £90 in seven oaks hi fi shops and more in others

as for the fm hook up connecting it up your wrong there to the correct way is you need a two ouput isolator (not splitet isolator) 1 output tv/data other output fm connected via coax i use wf150 coax with crimp on f connectors

Re: FM Hook-up
 

NTL can provide a type of scart for the non audio out STB's.The reason they were removed is the same as the removal of the off air by pass= the STB's were cheaper!But because of so much complaints,they had to introduce a 'bolt on' by-pass.
The are 2 types of FM hook up connectors available; a male rf type & a forked 2 prong type.A lot of the isolators fitted now are either tv/tv or straight tv output.
Spike

Re: FM Hook-up
 

hi what does this bolt on audio l&r bypass look like thanks if its one that going in to the scart socket they are c*ap as they dont provide as good audio qulity as proper phono outputs

Re: FM Hook-up
 

The bolt on RF bypass is nothing to do with the SCART!!
It's a fitting that allows you to get BBC1 to C5 off air WITHOUT a external roof airial!

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Little wonder customers and staff have no idea FM is available without any requirement for a STB. But back on topic, anyone know how to report a fault on it? (Missing/distorted channels?).

Re: FM Hook-up
 

I remember trying to do just that a few years back...

Each person I spoke to either didn't understand the phrase "FM Hook-Up", denied its existence, said it had been switched off years ago or said that it had been replaced by the radio channels on the TV service.

I gave up.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Did you get anywhere with the Responsetek?

Failing that, you could try posting in the Digital and Analogue TV forum on Chetnet and there's a chance that Proppin' will pick it up.

What a shame that NTL haven't realised that they could charge for (and hopefully make money out of) a FTA analogue service.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

My first stumbling block was that it segments the queries into services... and you guessed it - FM hook-up isn't there, the closest was 'Analogue TV' so I followed that and entered a response leaving email address and phone number.

Nothing happened! (Surprise surprise).

I agree with the other poster that it could be a useful additional revenue stream, but I assume the reason why this hasn't happened is because of billing... they can't! It looks as though it has been engineered simply to be there as part of the feed, obtainable if you have the FM tap, but not otherwise.

I'm thinking of going to the local head-end and trying to chat with one of the engineers there to see if I can be more pro-active than CS...

Re: FM Hook-up
 

I agree....back when they had the Music Choice channels on there I would have paid a quid or so a month to receive it...I guess the problem is that there is no way to switch it off for those who don't subscribe to it.

Saying that, if they stuck all the channels that are on the DTV service on to FM, I'd a pay for that too.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Did eventually get a response from Responstek - but sadly it was more of of an ill-informed ramble than any positve help. I was told that current STB's make no use of the FM Hook Up (as if they ever did!) so is no longer supported. It went on to say that 'nothing can be done'. Clearly this is arrant nonsense, as until the service is formally withdrawn (and there has been no proof that it has been). Clearly the service is either active or it isn't - and as 22 channels are currently broadcasting, it somehow weakens the Responstek answer.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

If NTL still have analogue TV customers in your area then then the FM service most certainly is supported. It's how the STB gets its stereo sound for the Sky movie channels.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Surely the analogue STB (which was mono) didn't make use of the stereo audio?

I recall the customer was told if he wanted to listen to the film audio in stereo, he tuned his home hi-fi into the relevant channel? Certainly, there are 4 stereo feeds of the Sky movie channels still transmitting, but I'm just waiting the next NTL uninformed opinion that it has to go 'because of the digital switchover' which of course is nonsense. (1) Because radio isn't affected & (2) There's nothing to stop NTL transmitting a digital re-encoded channel to analogue to allow those users with non integrated TV's to still retain the choice of looking at the existing terrestrial channels AFTER the digital 'switchover'.

It could be a massive selling point for the newly enlarged NTL. 'Digital switchover? Stay with us and keep your existing TV!'.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

my analogue stb gets stereo sound on films, sky1 etc ;)

Re: FM Hook-up
 

How do you listen to the stereo audio then? An RF loop-through has no NICAM, and the audio/video output (on the Jerrold) were two phono sockets. Even looking at my old analogue STB (a souvenir) there was no capability... hence my query!

Re: FM Hook-up
 

not sure what you mean by 'loop through' - my Scientific Atlanta box has only an RF outlet. I connect that to an 'All in Wonder' TV card in my pc & the display will show 'stereo' when an appropriate signal is detected, and 'mono' when it isn't :)

Re: FM Hook-up
 

I don't have a SA box, but the only way an All-In-Wonder card is going to give you Stereo is if the channel has been NICAM encoded. When you watch Sky Movies etc, NTL encode it - it has nothing to do with NTL's FM hook-up service, and unless you use some form of FM tuner, you don't use it.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

then how come I get pro-logic output through my surround speakers?? ;)

Re: FM Hook-up
 

You certainly don't get this directly from any service NTL provide - if your receiving kit can resolve Pro-Logic sound from the NICAM feed it will do so - NTL's delivery is only twin-audio channels that are NICAM encoded (from the analogue service). Again, this has nothing to do with FM hook-up!

Re: FM Hook-up
 

right, I see what you are saying, I thought you meant I couldn't get stereo from an analogue STB - to be honest, so long as I get it, I am not too fussed 'how' :)

Re: FM Hook-up
 

So any one know whats happening about the fm signal are ntl going to sort it or supply a dab signal, as here in newport there are channels that go off tune and blank carriers that are still being modulated

Re: FM Hook-up
 

I'd like the idea of them supplying a feed, but then DAB is simply a transmission medium, they'd respond by saying they can easily provide these stations as audio channels on their existing TV line-up. If the real issue was bandwidth, you can bet FM qould have been lost the minute digital TV was proposed.... but they didn't. The Music Choice channels are still there, blasting out Stereo silence on 8 frequencies. How daft is that? As its not revenue earning, it's a low priority, but I'd settle for the removal of the MCEblanks and fixing the ones that are supposed to be there, and stop saying it's 'unsupported'. Which is a crass reaction to 'I don't know what you're talking about, or I've never heard of it).

Re: FM Hook-up
 

My guess is it will be discontinued when they discontinue the analog cable transmissions, as they will then be able to use the bandwidth for digital cable stuff. It would be nice however if they could supply DAB encoded signals, but as DAB itself is rubbish compared to the high quality encoded audio you can get through the STB, i dont think they will bother.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

This 'dump' analogue campaign by NTL is nonsensical. I had an NTL staffer tell me in all seriousness they would be required 'by law' to cease analogue transmissions at a date specified by the government. She couldn't get her head round the fact that any proposed digital switchover only concerned terrestrial transmissions, not what was squirted down a cable. NTL as the UK's only cable company will be in a great position to capitalise on this, as I mentioned previously.

With regard to FM - facilitating DAB would be pointless as the number of customers taking advantage of it would be minimal in the short term, and even less in the future as a 'Son of DAB' is brought to market, making the current kit obsolete. The same would hold true for NTL providing a Freeview feed for those not wanting an STB. I understand many councils gave cable companies the right of wayleaves so that aerials, whether VHF or UHF, could be dispensed with. Analogue STBs are clearly on the way out, and replacing them with digital will have no impact on the aerial situation.

Remove FM though, and you've a different situation. Many folk will not want their TV on all day just to listen to radio, so there may be a requirement to keep the FM service active, whether they want to or not. It would be interesting to find out!

Re: FM Hook-up
 

It is not nonsensical if you see that NTL can supply many new digital or even HDTV channels (for which they can charge more money) in the same bandwidth as a handful of anlaogue TV and FM broadcasts (that are currently free).

Re: FM Hook-up
 

No - you misunderstood. It was nonsensical that they were misconstruing the ending of analogue (on NTL) as a government edict, when it was nothing of the sort. The bandwidth used by the 30 or so available analogue TV channels (of which, only 7 are 'free') is far greater than the 22 FM audio channels. Which begs the question, if there was such a squeeze on bandwidth, then why several years after the removal of Music Choice's 8 music feeds, the carrier is still active and encoding stereo silence, when clearly is should have been removed entirely.

As for HDTV, I'm all for it - but bandwith here is an almost infinite resource. The NTL's fibre network already has the capacity, the only logjam would be in the local loop, and STB's could be made to reconstruct an HDTV signal in much the same way as BB does today... on an unused part of the available spectrum. Sky don't have this resource, and they have to pay (dearly) for this for each Astra transponder. NTL can simply, take it in by fibre skipping the hop into space.

If NTL decide to end FM hook-up, then fine I'll be sorry to see it go - but not this ongoing 'death by misinformation' policy they've currently bombarded me with.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Fair enough!

In fact, I think that NTL (and Telewest) will turn-off analogue before the government does, in any case - Telewest have said they want to stop analogue broadcasts by the end of 2006.

They can only make use of the FM and UHF bandwidth if they completely remove all channels as a single digital mux would take up a lot more space than one analogue channel but be able to carry a lot more digital channels.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

Ah - but you forget 70% of their customer base might just like the idea that their TV/radio could continue to work fine after the Govt imposed analogue blackout! Think of it as a USP (unique selling point) of cable. Presently I do not watch the digital versions of terrestrial channels, because it gives me the option of watching one whilst taping something else. Unless NTL propose to release STB's with dual tuners, I see what you suggest as being a PR nightmare for them.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

I managed to report a fault with the FM hook up within the last two years, a) with out any issue and b) it got fixed within the week.
Some local stations had disappeared.
But as always with NTL, i think, it depends who happens to pick the phone up. Some have brains/knowledge/will to help, others just answer the phone and you wonder why, or wether you have phoned the right number.
I must say it still bugs me that, a telecommunications company are still sending out bills which state dial 151 from your NTL phone to contact us, when for at least a year all you get is a tone. You then remember to us the 0800....
anyway rant over

Re: FM Hook-up
 

I rang NTL about Virgin Radio dropping off the FM hook-up here in Nottingham (to be replaced by a silent stereo carrier), only to be told that (basically) they didn't care whatsoever.

Re: FM Hook-up
 

It is this attitude I find incredible.... they either offer the service (and fix it when it goes wrong) or they don't, and they pull the plug and face an outcry from customers who feed the signal to their HiFi kint and think nothing of it (as you would do with a standard FM aerial).

I think the only way to force the issue is to state that you put a value of - say £3.99pm for the service, and you'll be withholding this amount until the channel (s) you listen to are restored....