Questions about Routers
 

N00b here when it comes to routers.

Planning on using a router to split my broadband connection up but I have a few questions which I aint to sure on so any help is welcome and grateful for :)

1) I assume a router splits a connection up?
2) The plan is to use a router to split it up for 4 computers... Is that a realistic value or is to high?.
3) We plan on getting rid of our dialup connections - is our service just discontinued without any physical involvements (ie phones lines cut? - stupid question most likely).
4) Do routers allow you to control the % of broadband speeds to be allocated? Say I want to use 50% and allow 15%, 15% and 20% to the other computers could I do that?.
5) How hard is it to configure one?
6) Anything else I might need to know?.

Thanks!

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Fitting a router is easy
How close together are the PC if the are close go for a wired system, If they are in diferent rooms go for Wireless. (wireles router have wired prots)
You can buy kits that would be cheaper than buying separately.
With Wireless go for 808.11G or for future proofing you could try PRE-N.
cancelling dialup if you pay don't forget to cancel.
more to follow
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Configuring if fairly straight forward just plug in and follow the instuction that come.
There might be software that controls bandwidth i don't know anyway yet.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

1. yup
2. 4 port routers are pretty normal - but 4 computers is against NTL T&C's - dunno about other ISPs.
3. Do you want to keep the phone line? (btw you don't really get a choice if you have NTL Cable TV - you still, effectively, get charged for line rental, whether or not you use the phone)
4. I'm not sure if some can do this, but I know you can't with mine ;)
5. I stuck in the cd, followed the instructions & it worked straight away with the default settings. Getting the more advanced stuff like port forwarding sussed is a bit more complicated - but you shouldn't need that to begin with (if at all).
6. Whether you want ADSL or Cable internet, whether you want a wireless setup, whether you have a network card in the pcs you want to connect

Re: Questions about Routers
 

The computers are all in different rooms. Thinking about it now, it might have to be 5 computers in total. A wired system prob won't be a problem as we already have quite a lot of dialup wires trailing from my room and my bro's room to my lil bro and lil sis's room. Would be nice to go wireless though but would it cost considerably more than the wired version? and wouldn't I need new wireless network cards? Might not be possible for my laptop computer.
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Why are 4 computers against T and C? I can understand if they used the same speeds that NTL provided on a single comp but if its split I can't see what the problem is. What the most allowed?.

For 3) we just don't want to use dialup anymore. We dont have tv, or use the line for phoning, just for net really. Want to keep all our costs down, and getting rid of the slower dialup (x2) seems to be the better solution and get the broadband shared out.

Port forwarding seems to be an issue that might be difficult - don't really know what is :) ... Routing might be hard for me to do, cos I spent quite a few days on getting standard windows networking working.

We already have ntl cable broadband. And all the computers have standard network cards as they've all been able to use my connection on their computer at some point.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Linksys WRT54G has option to set high or low priority to either individual applications or to individual ports - the latter would suit your needs.

It would basically mean that - once correctly set up - if you were surfing, your machine would have bandwidth priority over the others. If your machine were off it wouldn't make any difference to the other machines.

Linksys can be had for £40-50. Wireless cards for the PC's for £20-30, poss cheaper (been a while since I looked), and a PCMCIA card / USB wireless for the laptop won't be much more.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

lol - I don't know why the T&Cs say max 3 computers per connection, - I do know it is difficult to check ;) - and you can get 8 port routers.

sounds like you can lose the phoneline with no problem.

port forwarding is only an issue with stuff like webcams and some P2P apps, as far as I know ( don't use port forwarding, myself)

neither do i use my router to share over a network, but as far as I know it is fairly simple to set up.

If you don't mind the wires, an all ethernet setup will do the job, it sounds like you just need to get the router.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

i think i may have a PCMCIA wireless card for the laptop, prob scout about in the drawers later on.

Is the settings on that router through software or is it on the router itself?.

I would really like to be able to alter it throughout the day automatically, like when i'm away during the mornings/afternoon, it'll have higher speeds for me, but later on it'll automatically switch to equal speeds for the others.

I need the ability to control the connection time somewhat with my lil bro and sister as they spent too much time on the net, has a "time limit" feature present in routers? or the choice of cutting off a connection during a time of day?.
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Thinking about it now, 5 set of ethernet cabling seems like a pain in the backside, so I'll prob opt for wireless..

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Settings are within the routers software - it's accessed like a web page. Very simple to use.
There are further settings which allow you to set access restrictions per PC based on time of day, day of week, hours of use, etc so you should find settings that work for your situation. I have a linux PC which I use solely for P2P; the router allows that to work freely until my or my g/f's Xp PC's come online, then the Xp machines take priority for e-mail, surfing, games, etc.

No problems in over 12months use.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Have you considered homeplug as an alternative to wireless.This technology uses the mains of the house to carry a network ,1 plug off the router then how ever many at pc points http://www.homeplug.org/en/index.asp

Re: Questions about Routers
 

You can restrict like this very easily on something like the linksys. Other routers have something called QoS Quality of Service and that can prioritise one machine / port / application (say VOIP) over others within the routing.
For wired the BEFSR81 does this well.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Thanks for the replies so far, just a few more:

Is wireless safe when it comes to data integrity?, no data corruption from the net or when file sharing between computers?.

zinglebarb: Do you currently use this? Any pro's or con's specific with using this system?

Would one of my computers need to act as the server? If it does, do i need to put a wireless card in it if i choose to go wireless to access the router, or could I use a normal ethernet cable as it's most likely located right next to the computer and it'll be one less wireless card that needs spending on.

Cheers

Re: Questions about Routers
 

just buy a cheap router use this as start point. I do not know fully how this works but I believe ntl use this in places. Im setting it up for a guy this week 4 points so ill let you know how it goes

Re: Questions about Routers
 

The router is the far better alternative to using Windows internet connection sharing - which would requre one PC to act as the server - with a router, the router is the connection server, so you don't have to leave a particular PC on.

Depending on the router configuration, it may be that certain dervices are dedicated to one PC, such as videoconferencing, though with most setups, it would be possible to enable any PC to call out, but only one to answer.

Wireless is generally robust (actually, if there are errors, simpler protocols will have to be able to tolerate them, while higher level protocols have their own checking and retry), though care needs to be taken in securing it, or you may end up with other people joining your network!

Streaming audio/video normally used the "unreliable" UDP protocol, and is expected to glitch momentarily on lost/damaged packets.
File transfer, web browsing etc. uses "reliable" TCP, where all packets are accounted for, and resent if their loss is reported (NAK) or if their arrival (ACK) is not reported.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

interesting Matth, didn't know about the server thing (don't have to leave PC on).

Would securing it require a lot of work?

Thanks to everyone so far. Brother wants to sort out some payments to ntl first with the parents, and decide whether it's worthwhile going ahead with the routers.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Today, I am running 6 computers off of my Broadband, NTL cant tell how many PCs are running of it so i cant see how it's policable as it all goes through one IP

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Securing a wireless router against casual abuse, the most important feature is to use WEP, which will need a key entered on the router and on any wireless PCs.

WEP can be defeated in a concerted attack, but it's a whole lot better than leaving a router open, unless you intend to provide a free access point for as far as the signal travels!

MAC address filtering is another option that can be used, though it does not provide a huge increase in security against anyone capable of breaking the WEP key.

Turning off SSID broadcast is often suggested, but on many setups, it results in erratic or non-connection. Change the SSID from deafult, so you can identify your router if another of the same type operates nearby.

It is also best to change any default password and disable remote (outside) management/login - just make sure that you know how to factory-reset the router, in case you lock yourself out, and that you do not apply restrictions to wired connection as well as wireless.

Falling foul of a non-broadcast SSID incompatibility, I ended up with a wireless lockout - retrieved by making a wired connection, and turning broadcast back on.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Bit more on security....

Article about securing a wireless network:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/article.php?a=12


The thread the article came from:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=8435

Re: Questions about Routers
 

lol, most of these don't make much sense to me. I guess if we do go with the routers, things will fall into place a bit more. Ta.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Any sort of recommendations regarding Wireless PCI Cards?

thanks

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Sorry for bumping this up but looking at a few routers from LinkSys, along with USB card, Laptop PCIMIA card, and PCI cards, I've noticed they mention WEP but not WPA. Is WPA possible through firmware, or does it need to come along physically on these components?.

Sorry for the dumb questions.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

I have actually now set up the home plug and they work a treat . Very simple you just have install a small software program which you then imput device passwords that are on the plug a volla.Less messy that wired and as simple as wireless imo

Re: Questions about Routers
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&page=54&pp=15
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&postcount=804
Well certain CMs report this sort of information (and no this was not a combined CM/router, the CM was plugged into an Apple Airport express and correctly reported the iMac and Laptop connected wirelessly to the Airport.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

How could it work that out as its on the other side of a NAT firewall?

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Just want to say thanks to everyone who helped out in this thread. Got the router (WRT54G) and 2 pci wireless cards (WMP56G) and managed after some confusing period to get it working. So cheers :D

Shame the quick instruction manual doesnt say much about the QoS, or other net restriction features.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Quick question: Is the net restrictions only limited to those connections connected through the ethernet ports? (ie its not possible to disable or restrict the net access for those using wireless?).

Re: Questions about Routers
 

I think you can do it thru mac addressing.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Cheers SMHarman.

Still got a few niggles to work through.

- Some issues regarding shared folders.. Sometimes they are accessible, sometimes they arent. I think it may be a kerio firewall issue but its kinda delayed, and i aint to sure whats causing it.

- PCI wireless cards are acting up. Sis comp seems to have stopped accessing the net even though it worked fine the last few hours... Same issue with bro's comp. Doing me head in lol.

Sister's issue may have to do with Internet Restrictions settings for the router...

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Applications and Gaming
QoS
Device Priority (and input the mac address and name it)
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is your firmware uptodate 4.07 or 4.20

Re: Questions about Routers
 

My Router Webpage shows: Firmware Version : v4.01.1

I've tried looking around for the 4.20 on the official UK site of Linksys but it only shows WRT54GV3.1_4.00.7_US_code (http://www1.linksys.com/internationa...wid=201&coid=6 ) Do you think its worth updating the firmware to this?

I've managed (I thinK) to get the shared folders working now. I've deleted all my firewall rules and started permitting and denying from scratch. Seems to have fixed that.

I've noticed occassionally the wireless icon usually pops up a connection message now and then. I think it cuts out due to idleness, but it's annoying as I use ultravnc to remote control my desktop PC, but when I have it minimised it seems to cut out and the UltraVNC window closes. Any suggestions?

Cheers.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

4.2 is the US code, it results in only having channels 1-11 on the router, but reading through it seemed that the changes from 07 to 20 made that sacrifice worthwhile. Mine seems a lot more stable now, but I did upgrade from 1.07!

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Then ditch It the linksys is a hardware firewall and will operate much better. :-)

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Do you know whether a downgrade is possible?. The wrt54g seems to have quite a few versions about. I've looked at the firmware on the US site and its mentioned V4 in the filename... Can I overlook this or is router version important?
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Not really sure how well the Router's firewall works to be honest. It's not really customisable so I can't tell how it detects what should and what shouldn't be allowed in/out.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

It protects you because it uses NAT (network address translation). It hides your private IP.

ie people see you x.x.x.x ip addres and can do all they want to try access that ip but they will be trying to access a router not a pc. You pc is on a private y.y.y.y address which is invisable. What the router does is note down what service you request and opens the require port only for that service. It can allow access externally but only if specifically programmed to do so.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

I believe you can. I have upgraded a v1.1 to run on the 4.20.7 firmware.
There was a while back (see the bit in bold below) where this was not possible.
I went to 4.20 for the reason highlighted in italics (port based QoS) which i needed to plug the Vonage device into it.

EDIT - it would appear you cannot roll back to firmware prior to Firmware 3.01.3

Linksys, A division of Cisco Systems, Inc.
Product: WRT54G
Classification: Firmware Release History
Firmware Date: 8/18/2005
Release Date: 8/25/2005
Last Firmware Version: 4.20.7
__________________________________________________ ________________________
Firmware 4.20.7
- Resolved issue with SecureEasySetup button delay
- Resolved issue with SecureEasySetup overwritting current wireless settings
- Resolved issue with not being able to disable SecureEasySetup button
- Resolved issue with Diag light being constantly lit after upgrading to 4.20.6 on v.1 hardware
- Resolved issue with iDefense security vulnerability
- Resolved issue with L2TP disconnect
- Resolved issue with SecureEastsetup long button push not resetting wireless settings

Firmware 4.20.6
- Resolve issues with setup wizard
- Updated wireless security menu
- Resolve issues with port based QoS

Firmware 4.00.7
- Adds SecureEasySetup push button support
- Resolves large file transfer issues
- Resolves issue with enabling TKIP after enabling WEP
- Updated QoS features
- Resolves issues with multiple Access Restrictions policies
- Resolves issue where multicast breaks when MAC filter status changes

Firmware 3.03.6
- Supports hardware version 3
- Updated help file

Firmware 3.03.1
- Wi-Fi certified

Firmware 3.01.3
- Updated wireless driver
- Supports hardware version 2.2 (cannot downgrade to previous versions)
- Resolves issue with VoIP adapters
- Resolves issue with long domain names

Firmware 2.04.4
- Updated wireless driver
- Updated certificate generation for https access

Firmware 2.04.3
- Resolves issue with disabling firewall
- Added QoS function
- Added Port Triggering function
- Added L2TP option for WAN connection type
- Added ability to back up and restore configuration files
- Added Wireless isolation function
- Added ability to filter internal NAT redirection
- Added ability to restrict access to web GUI from wireless clients
- Added ability to filter IDENT port 113
- Resolves issue with HeartBeat WAN connection
- Added support for 40/56bit cipher to support old browsers to use https
- Resolves issue with PPTP passthrough
- Changed WPA Group Key renewal time range to 600~7200 seconds
- Added IGMP proxy support
- Added ability to allow web GUI access only through https or http


Firmware 2.02.2
- Updated wireless driver to support all versions of WRT54G hardware
- Adds support to allow WAP54G connect as a repeater
- CTS protection mode set to disable by default to improve wireless performance in normal environments
- Resolved issue where the WLAN LED stays on even when wireless is disabled
- Resolved security vulnerability causing the web server in the router to crash

Firmware 2.00.8 (WRT54G v.2 only)
- Updated wireless driver

Firmware Version 1.42.2
- Updated wireless driver to 3.31.15
- Added URL and contents filters
- Added L2TP passthrough
- Added HeartBeat Signal support
- Resolved issue with Connect on Demand

Firmware Version 1.41.2
- Updated GUI format and layout

Firmware Version 1.30.7
- Adds UI control to enable/disable frame bursting
- Resolves issue with firmware upgrade error in Internet Explorer 6.0.2800.1106.xpsp2.030422-1633, on Windows XP pro.
- Send 192.168.1.1 to disable DynDNS
- Resolves issue with using the 4th tx key for WEP
- Resolves issue with disconnecting PPPoE causing WPA to be disabled

Firmware Version 1.30.1
- Adjust PPTP max MTU value from 1400 to 1460
- The router is now certifiable for the UPnP logo
- Complies with final 802.11g standard
- Improved performance asymmetry between the transmit and receive paths
- Receive Broadcast packets from renew state. Some DHCP server (Dlink 300G+) send broadcast ACK after it receives a REQUEST
- Fix: The firmware upgrade will fail, if DDNS updates while upgrading
- Fix: If first DNS address fails, the second or third DNS address will be used to resolve domain names
- Added the following items under Setup Page:
- Router Name
- Manual Time Server
- MAC Clone
- wireless domain
- Security Settings
- Added the following items under System Page
- UPnP enable/disable
- Ping Test and Traceroute
- Added the following items under Wireless Page
- CTS Protection Mode
- Basic Rate
- Added the following items under Status Page
- Router Name
- Start IP Address
- End IP Address
- Added Wi-Fi Protected Access(TM) support including AES and TKIP encryption
- Resolves issue with Port Forwarding name showing up as garbage characters
- Added "B-Only" option to wireless modes
- Added "Default" option to Basic Rate settings

Firmware Version 1.02.1
- Incorporates updates found in the Draft IEEE 802.11g version 6.1 specification
- Resolves interoperability issues with legacy 802.11b devices under Mixed Mode
- Resolves a performance bug where the performance in a mixed b, g network did not go up once the last b client disassociated
- Resolves issue where WEP degrades performance
- Resolves issue with TZO DDNS Service
- "Domain Name" replaces "name"
- TFTP server will only verify image file name "xxxx.bin"
- MAC Address Filter under the Advanced tab works on both wired and wireless clients
- Fixed a bug that prevented wireless clients from connecting to the Internet if there was no active wired PC (PPoE customers in Europe and China only)
- Support for UPnP enabled applications such as MSN Messenger
- Fixed a bug that caused computers connected to the LAN ports to be dropped at some interval only to be immediately re-connected
- Fixed Dynamic Routing issue between 2 Routers
- Allows User to name Static Route Configurations
- Modified PC List Web Page to avoid confusion
- Stabilized Wireless-G to LAN and WAN Throughput
- Stabilized Wireless-B to LAN and WAN Throughput
- Improved LAN-WAN Throughput

Firmware Ver.: 1.01
- Initial release

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Thanks again.

Decided to go for it. Upgrade of firmware went ok, but the list of wireless networks kinda dissappeared off my laptop card, and a refreshs showed nothing.

Did a restart and forturnately its back on connected.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

I have the same router WRT54G but i cant seem to find the firmware updates im on version ver4.20.6 ?.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Thanks ;).

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Question for anyone who has the WMP54G PCI Wireless Card.

The one installed into my sister's computer seems to be working fine. The one installed into my brothers has been iffy. Once it stopped working, the card showed in the device manager but had a yellow exclamation icon (a conflict?), and I believe a error 10... Dunno what happened but it seemed to have fixed itself a hr or so later. Then today, my brother tried to use the net and couldn't and again he checked the device manager. This time, the PCI wireless card was nowhere to be found. So I got the card taken out and plugged it back in and it seems to have worked so far - I suggested trying a different PCI slot, but my brother has just two slots free, but one of the slot is too close to the graphics card installed into the AGP slot.. Any ideas why this could be happening to my brothers computer and not my sis. Or what could have happened in the situations above.

If it wasn't for the fact that the card works 95% of the time, i'd have thought it was faulty the card itself.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

one of the slots might be shared?

Some times the cramped motherboards slot share channels I'm sure some ISA PCI boards used to do this.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Really!.

Anyway to unshare the slots?.

EDIT:

is it possible to get the MAC address of a wireless computer without having to physically do a cmd ipconfig /all on it. I've noticed ip addresses on my network seems to change a lot... desktop was ending with .102, then it changed last night to .104.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

You can look at them in the router screens (if they have connected to that router).

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Unsharing is not possible if thats what you have ie 2 physical data bus with 3 physical slots.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

I think i know what you mean. Thanks.
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Theres 2 PCI slots actually there, don't know how to check for physical data buses though.

EDIT:

Anyone a way to get program files folder shared? Under SP2 it seems that they've disabled it.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Still having trouble with Internet Restriction settings. I think i have the following done right.

Click on the Access Restrictions tab.
Change status to "enable"
Enter a name for this policy.
Click the "Edit list of PC's" button.
Add mac address of PC you want the policy to effect.
Choose access or deny for what you want the policy to do.
Choose the day and the time (selecting AM/PM too) for the above action - either allowing these times to be access times or deny times.
Then save changes.

Does that seem right?

No matter how many times I set it to only allow access within a 5 minute window, it works both in the window and out of it. So i'm lost as to why its doing that.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Have you tried pulling the power out of the back and then rebooting it to see if that fixes it.
Have you tried putting access restrictions on differently to see if that fixes it, e.g. restrictions on a physical port, or an IP address to see if it is restrictions or mac restrictions that does not work.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

I've not tried the reboot thing. So will prob give it a go later.

I've put both the mac address and ip address of the computer I want to restrict but that didn't work, but ive never tried just the ip address. Only issue I can see if it does work is that the IP address of the computer changes pretty often so its not always easy to keep tabs on it.

Its a shame that the QoS doesnt let you specify a specific % portion of bandwidth to be allowed for each computer. Think I'll look around for a software app to see if can do that, but i doubt it.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

I'm beginning to think the wireless router is interefering with our cordless telephones. I tried to make an outgoing call but they guy on the other end couldn't hear us, i've once got a incoming call that I couldnt hear except what sounds like background noise, even though i've managed to take a lot of other calls before that.

So could it be the case that the router is affecting the phones? or not?

If it is, how can I solve things?

Thanks.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Go into your router config (192.168.1.1 or whatever it is) and change the channel it is on. Make sure you change it by 2. So if its on 11 use 13 or 9 that way you will move out of the band of the intererence. Worth noting that bluetooth also operates in this sort of band and can interfere with cordless phones and wireless networks as well.

Re: Questions about Routers
 

Cheers Handyman, any reason why 2 though?

Re: Questions about Routers
 

AFAIK the channels overlap a bit so moving 2 channels away makes sure you dont move into the next one suffering the same interference.

Further reading here

Re: Questions about Routers
 

1) Yes
2) I have had a 4 port Linksys router for 2 years and just tonight used 4 gaming pc's for the first time without any ping problems or other problems.
3) I left AOL along time ago and they just stopped the dd's per month and stopped my service.
4) No idea, never looked into that personally. Using 4 comps now and I cant see any slowdown on my comp.
5) Very easy. Bear in mind I use ethernet with WinXP - it was all plug and play.
6) I have the Linksys BEFSR41 router and the option I like is DMZ. (it allows one comp on the network to have full access to the net without the NAT butting in) - this is helpful when you want to set up a server for games or teamspeak.

Hope this helps... :)