The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Pardon the pun in the title.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3188062.stm
Should people have a right to be fat if they want to or are they a liability that NHS can't afford?

Any success with the quick fix diet?

Your opinions.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

I'm 5` 10" and I weigh between 17 and 18 stone.
Now thats clincally obese, however as my doctor told me the chart does not take into account your build.
I admit I have a rather large pot belly but I have no fat anywhere else. My legs are extremely muscular as I'm an ex sprinter/rugby/america football and Ice Hockey player you would expect them to be.
My doctor says I should weigh 12.5 stone, now I think this target is simply ridiculous, to be that weight i'd be thinner than a matchstick and unfotunately my build would prevent me being that weight, I was 14 stone when i was 13/14 years old.

So I'd suggest rather than class people like me clincally obese the NHS should start to take into consideration that some people arent built like a matchstick and have large bones and a lot of powerfull muscle in thier bodies. Maybe then th epercentage of obese people would be realistic.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

You're right, obesity should be on your fat % rather than your weight.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

I too am 5' 10" and weigh 11st 5oz wet !! OK who said 'wimp' !!

Although 55 years old and therefore slowing down a bit !! I cycle to work everyday. So whilst I am not exactly muscular, I'm not 'flabby' either.

I think your docs target of 12.5st is a bit implausible, but 14/15st would be reasonable. I know well that muscle weighs a lot more than fat, but skeletal build has much less effect on weight than most people would wish ! (About 15% total body weight). Obesity is defined as a BMI >30 and IMO opinion the popular figure of 20% of the population is somewhat generous and getting worse especially amongst the young.

If you take USA as a foresight of what happens here in 10 years then we have a big problem ! As the article says it is killing more than cancer and the hidden costs include time off work and pressures on the Health Services such as GPs, clinics etc.

A lot of excuses abound such as 'my metabolism', I'm 'big built', I'm happy overweight, I eat nothing but still gain weight !! but IMO if calories consumed exceed calories used you will gain weight, so reduce one and increase the other !! Otherwise know as eat less, excecise more. :rolleyes:

I fully expect that if I did not cycle I would probably gain about 1/2 to 1 stone per year !!

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Indeed I do agree, I have had a long lay off from sport (a touch of arthritis in my knees) I feel I have become lazy, and I know I have put a lot of weight on. However I never exceed 18 stones no matter how crappy my diet is, I also never seem to get below 17 stones even when I tried the weight watchers diet.
I dont do much exercise atm, I do want to work my way back into it though. I dont have the stamina to do long distance cycling or joggin for that matter. I tend to burn out quickly (possibly my sprinting background) and I find that recovery times now are lonmger than I would like.

I need to do something, I did join a gym, but I had very very little success there. I guess its time I started daily walks, make sure my knees are up to rigorous exercise.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Atkins?

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

No, the best way to lose weight is to eat healthily and exercise.
Just losing weight by not eating without any exercise makes people (especially women) look horrible, a fit figure looks so much better.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

That's what atkins suggests, reducing carbs which in excess get converted to fat, and excercise to burn off calaries

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Totally agree!

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

i agree roger i dont think the atkins diet should be a diet without further medical research in to it

a balanced diet regular excercise is all you need

i dont think the NHS should be paying for people's inability to control there eating habits

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

I'm about to start atkins, if its dangerous your all invited to my funeral......please no black.

I'm shocked people think that way, is it because its like no other diet? is it because you get to eat mostly what the hell you like? All you do is cut out the carbohydrates, you feel ****ty from the come down for a few days then you slowly re-introduce them. You may or may not consume more protein doing this, if you think you are drink plenty of water. Make sure you dont de-hydrate.

I guess the atkins diet isnt intented for people that are bloody stupid.
You dont live permanently on the Atkins diet, you get some weight off first because exercising whilst over weight can be deadly, lkets face it if I am clincially obese then it would be far too dangerous to start a demanding exercise program. I will do atkins for a few weeks, loose a fair few pounds then start more and more exercise. Once I am exercising I will stop the Atkins diet and start to be carefull of my carbo intake.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Indeed the bad press of atkins covers the first 2 week carb detox.

Atkins diet is really designed to find your carb limit. We eat so much more carb these days that the body finds it harder to process, we also eat it every meal so your digestion always has a backlog of carb processing.

In the same way people will cut wheat or gluten or orange foods atkins cuts carbs then reintroduces them until weight gain occurs. This is your carb limit.

And to think he takes 180pp to say that.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

[color=black]

Yay, someone else her who shares my view that the Atkins diet is ****.



I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Atkins diet is no way to loose weight, and what ever you have read is most likely wrong. They tell you all about ketosis etc but what they don't tell you is that most of the weight lost is from Glycogen (stored in your liver and muscles) and as soon as you eat (any) carbs you put it back on again.



Glycogen is there to give your body a quick burst of energy and it is essential to keep you healthy, if you remove this you become very ill (like in the first two weeks of Atkins). It is a huge myth that doctors and scientists like the Atkins diet (told to you by the promoters of the diet). In fact most are horrified and only recommend a balanced calorie controlled diet and EXCERSISE!!



I have put on weight since Christmas because of some medication the doctor gave me, I've now come off it and need to loose this excess weight. The Atkins diet would be wonderful, if it worked like they say but it doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t and all you are doing is storing up trouble for the future. So back to the exercise bike it is :(





As an aside, I think itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s a wonderful piece of marketing by the company that sell the books, they have managed to gloss over all the professional advice and negative publicity

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Its not exactly new, been plenty of time for people to take a look at it

Dr Atkins, a graduate of Cornell University's medical school, first tried a low-carb diet in 1963 after reading about one in the Journal of the American Medical Association
link

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

We didn't really address downquark1's initial question though did we ??

Do we think people have a right to be fat or are they a liability on the NHS ??

Well in much the same way smokers (yes I am one ! :smokin: ) aren't yet penalised by the NHS then neither should the overweight.

BUT......maybe that should change ? Perhaps with a 'no claims rebate' or some such ?? Unfortunately the way our national institutions work it would probably cost millions to administer !!!!

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

People are too lazy these days, it's simple. I eat so much junk, I am vegeterian, but don't like many vegetables, so it limits what I eat.

I walk every where (accept work which is 13 miles away), I surf any time I can, and I play roller hockey. I'm not lean but I am fit enough.

I have a relative who is massivly over weight, and has been told by serveral doctors that her weight is a massive factor in her trouble concieving a child. So she has spent a fortune on IVf etc etc and not done anything about her weight at all, it's just laziness.

It makes me so annoyed sometimes.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Can I get a no claims rebate for buying private cover also - relieving the burden on the NHS should I need treatment for anything.

All I use the NHS for is the GP end of things, anything further and I will pay a £100 per year policy excess and use my private cover.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

If you start to penalise people getting treatment because of their weight then where do you stop? Do you start to penalise people injuried taking part in extreme sports?

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Yes, 17 to 18 stone gives a BMI of 34.2 - 36.2. A BMI of 20 - 25 is considered normal, 25 - 30 as overweight and over 30 is obese. However, as you say, all bets are off if you are heavily muscelled.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

What the **** is a stone?

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

An Imperial weight measurement, let me find a converter.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

14lbs

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

or 6.35 Kg

so 1 kg is 0.15747 stone

tries to hide the fact that the metric system is French

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Yeah but we did tell them we'd adopt it if they adopted the Grenwich meridian...

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Ugh stones?

I'm 6'3" and 210 lbs.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

18 stone = 252lbs

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

BMI of 26.3. Better cut back on the Big Macs. :)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

210lb / 14lb (in a stone) = 15st ;)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

I'm a vegan. And I work out because I'm a cheerleader.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

A cheerleader!?:confused:
I thought those were women....?

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Okay :erm: :eek:

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Either that is some sort of american joke or he is actually a male cheerleader - something that is, as I understand it, quite rare and fround upon (unless I've missed something and Jerek is actually a woman)

PS: I really should watch less TV

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

No? Who are to throw the girls then? Boys do. :)

http://www.cheerweb.net/uwcheer/imag...s/pic12_10.jpg

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

What the hell? Frowned upon? WTF? Where do you get your info from? Don't you have male cheerleaders??? Do you guys find it disturbing that I like to throw girls around? I find it relaxing...

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2003/10/10.jpg

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Regardless, it is a good way to keep in shape and to develop your upper body and arm strengh.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Pssst! He's 6`3, weighs 15 stone and throws women about (but not in a bad way), I wouldn't mess ;)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

We don't have cheerleaders period. It's far too cold for women in short skirts to dance around outside. I drew that conclusion from those American High school programs and such things like malcom in the middle. But the way you describe it makes it sound quite apealing;)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Then do it inside. And Britain is hardly colder than Canada. ;) And stop watching so much TV. :p This is university, not high school. Even though in high school some guys were envious because you get to come up close and personal with a lot of hot girls.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Get to hang out with cheerleaders (tell me they're more intelligent than the media makes them out to be) and have an excuse to be "hands on", sounds like Jerrek's onto a good thing here :D

PS The London Monarchs (american football team) have very attractive cheerleaders

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

The way most people here think, football (soccer) is the ownly sport or ownly thing in life. It is rarely played inside and I think we wouldn't want the girls near the riots.

Cheerleading just isn't in British sports (I don't know why) that and those annoying tunes in basketball/baseball.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Our cheerleaders are university students... They don't seem stupid to me. :)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Hmm, it's all relative :D

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

BMI Body Mass Index and now Big Mac Index - the number of Macs consumed to reach your target Index!

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Yuck. How can a person eat meat? Or eggs? Or drink milk? [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Good one! I'll have to remember that.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

I'm with you on the milk, and I rarely eat meat, but I like it sometimes ;)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Re the last two. Take a pint of milk. Beat an egg (raw) into it. Add a little sugar, grated nutmeg and a dash of sherry. Result: an egg nog. Excellent!

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

It may be yummy Theodoric, but it wouldn't do me any good, I'm lactose intolerant :(

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

EWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!! :disturbd:

Milk
Raw egg
Sherry

Must be the three things I hate most!! :sick:

(BMI of 23.5 BTW)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Love meat, eggs and milk. Try and cycle about 7m every couple of days to keep in shape.

The article seemed to be about obese people getting extra help from the NHS to tackle their weight problem. I reckon if folk are happy to be fat then let them be fat. There is enough literature available to us all showing the health risks and the ways in which you can lose weight safely.

The only obese folk I have a problem with and who I think need special care are those people who get so fat that they cannot care for themselves anymore. These cases should be picked up by GP's as early as possible and special care should be given to them to stop them getting to the stage where they cannot even go outside their house.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

just been reading about it to learn a bit more, it said the degree of intolerance varies & matured cheeses may be ok for some - do you have to avoid all dairy products, dellwear?

This sounded a bit yuck though

This topic of how food/metabolism/activity level/genetics is related to obesity is fascinating, because every time we seem to find a pattern, we find other evidence that seems to contradict it - the recent "it isn't beer that causes beer bellies" results, are a case in point.

One concept I havn't seen in the thread is that of "brown fat" - apparently a different kind of fat that can convert stored energy into heat?

I should declare that I am 5'4" & weigh just under 9 stone (56Kg) :erm:

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

I avoid milk, and cheese as much as possible and have soya milk, but I do love Mature cheese so I have some every now and again. I'm not that allergic, I don;t go into anaphylactic shock or anything but if I have too much I swell and get very red and itchy!

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Ah yeah for the sake of the survey I should also say I'm 5' 4" and about 8 stone 9.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Where do you get your protein from, or your essential fatty acids, or omega 3?
Do you take suppliments?
And don't you miss not being able to eat jelly(jelo) at parties? :D

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

careful with the soya milk - it may be oestrogenic;)

those symptoms sound more like an allergic response, than an intolerance? Inability to digest lactose mainly makes you fart & have diaorrhea? - not go blotchy?

Theoretically, fungus infected cheese like stilton would also contain less lactose - how do you react to them?

\realises the experiment could be dangerous:)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

:rolleyes:

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

eat healthy - exercise, you are not wrong - but 1 out of 2 may have to do?:)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

:rofl:

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

That explains the breasts then!:D
Or you could just have goats or sheeps cheese then, yum!

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

feta accompli?:D

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

People who are overweight are a liability to themselves and to some degree a liability to those they support.

Like smokers, they need help not condemnation.

A healthy diet and exercise lifestyle is the generally accepted solution for being overweight.

Our bodies react differently to these so there is no universal formula. You have to find out which exercise and which foods work best for you, but you have to realise that whatever you discover it has to be or become part of your daily lifestyle.

Atkins will work for some but only in the short term, so it is not a lifelong programme and that's what you need.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Beg to differ about it not being a life long programme.
It's designed to be just that.
Remember, completly cutting out carbs is just at the begining, you slowly re-introduce them to the balanced level that your body needs.
I know someone who's been on it for 7 years and they have no health problems.
It even helped lower their colestorol.
Mum (who's type 2 diabetic and has an overactive thyroid) knows someone who's used Atkins to control their type 2 diabetes.

People seem to have strange ideas about atkins, like it tells you to over eat on lard :rolleyes:
I tells you to have sensible portions, cut out the snacking in between and cut down on carbs.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

If that's the case I'm surprised as there have been a number of cases in the papers and magazines of people who have had problems with Atkins within a short time, but then as we are all different I suppose it will suit some people better than others. Clearly, it suits your Mum well and good luck to her.

Lowering cholesterol is quite easy and you can do that without Atkins simply by adopting a 'continental diet'.

I agree that cutting out the carbohydrates is important because they contribute to another dietary problem group called triglycerides more popularly known as fat. Eating protein is fine so long as you don't overdo it as it does burn off the fat, which is a benefit of the Atkins diet.

Like most things it's horses for courses and we just have to find what works for each one of us.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

The media loves health scares even when there aren't any!
The problems people reports relate to the first couple of weeks where you cut out carbs and go cold turkey, once your body has re-adjusted to living with the low level of carbs it needs you're fine, infact most people report feeling more alive.

They did a study recently comparing calorie controlled diet with atkins.
Atkins, as expected produced weight in a shorter period.
After 2 years both diets had resulted in the same weight loss.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Did you not see that report about a 17 (I think) year old girl in America that died because she stooped eating carbs and her body shut down :eek:

On another point, I find that if I eat small amounts of cheese (like on pizza or in a sandwich) I'm fine but if I over do it I swell up, get a rash and stuff. The doctor said that I probably have a problem with the enzyme that helps break down the lactose into its constituent parts (or something) and I should avoid it.

It's not a problem I just avoid milk when I can, and now I don't even like the taste of real milk. Yuck

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

How long did she stop for?


I may have asked before, but what's your blood type?

I can't stand soya milk myself :)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

I have no idea about the specifics of the case, but I do know that her doctors at the local hospital (like most doctors) were horrified by what happened. I'm not sure what my blood type is, cant say they have ever told me :confused:

Some soya milk is really foul, Provamel soya milk tastes like flour and water mixed, but So Good tastes really nice. There are even coffee houses that will make your coffee with soya milk now too, Nero's are one chain that do it :)

Edit - The girl was 16 and she died after only 6 days on the diet!! The link is below ;)

http://www.itv.com/news/994476.html

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Just being nosey, what difference does your blood group make to food allergies?
(I'm A Rh+ BTW)

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Where do you get your protein from,
Your body doesn't need protein. It needs amino acids to build *human* protein. Of the 20 (or 21) amino acids, all but eight cannot be synthesized in your body and you need to consume those. Those are all available in fruits and vegetables WITH the enzymes required to break the fruit down.

If you eat chicken, you get CHICKEN protein which is NOT human protein. Your body thus needs to break it down before assembling it into human protein. Fruit and vegetables skip this very, very strenous step.

I really find it amusing how people are always like, "dude, you need protein." I'm just like, "Do I look like I need protein?" (6'3" is taller than most Canadians and 210 lbs is also quite a bit)

or your essential fatty acids, or omega 3?
Olive oil, nuts, flax seeds, pumpkin seeds, etc. I love muesli.

Do you take suppliments?
No. Why should I?

And don't you miss not being able to eat jelly(jelo) at parties?
We don't eat jello at parties.

Re: The 'growing' problem of obesity
 

Not even kids party's?? But they do make vegan Jelly too ;)