Cable Forum

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Science & Technology (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   AI - it’s the future? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33713888)

Hugh 28-06-2026 11:44

AI - it’s the future?
 
Thought it would be worth having a discrete thread on AI, as it is becoming more and more prevalent in everyday life…

And to start off

https://www.the-independent.com/tech...-b3003787.html

Quote:

Ford hired AI and sacked humans. It backfired badly

‘We didn’t pay as much attention as we should have to the experience of our most knowledgeable engineers,’ says automaker

Ford has admitted to rehiring hundreds of human workers after its aggressive AI adoption strategy backfired.

The US automaker hired over 350 veteran engineers, referred to internally as “gray beards”, over the past three years in order to address mistakes made by automated systems.

The staff will lead quality reviews after the automation issues cost the company billions of dollars, Bloomberg reported, while some workers will also help improve and train the AI systems.

“We had been relying more and more on automated quality systems and not getting the desired results,” said Kumar Galhotra, Ford’s chief operating officer.

“We brought back technical specialists and they hunt for failure points before a part ever reaches the plant floor.”

Ford had been increasingly relying on AI-driven inspection systems to streamline production and address quality control issues, however the firm acknowledged that AI lacked the nuanced judgement when it came to complex problems.

After rehiring experienced engineers, Ford experienced a marked improvement in its quality standards.
https://www.motor1.com/news/789583/f...dels-affected/

Quote:

Last year, Ford Motor Company issued more recalls than any other automaker ever. It surpassed the previous record holder, General Motors, by more than double, with 153 recalls affecting nearly 13 million vehicles.

It’s unlikely that Ford will issue as many recalls this year, but based on what we're already seeing, the number of affected vehicles could actually surpass 2025’s number. So far in 2026, the Blue Oval has issued 50 recalls involving 11,271,100 vehicles and one recall for 2,633 engine block heaters.

The company's largest recall so far affects 4.4 million trucks, including the brand’s best-selling F-Series pickup. A software issue could cause the brakes and indicators on a hooked-up trailer to stop working, which the automaker is fixing with an over-the-air update.

Over the last several years, the automaker’s high number of recalls has drawn widespread attention. It issued the most recalls of any automaker in 2022 and 2023, racking up billions in warranty costs.

In late 2024, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) fined Ford for failing to comply with federal recall requirements. The automaker had also agreed to make several changes in its recall process while meeting quarterly with NHTSA during the three-year consent order.

Carth 28-06-2026 12:17

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Is AI sentient, will it ever attain it?

At the moment, all AI is to me is a glorified computer with 'learning' algorithms, and if it learns the wrong things . . . well . . . who knows what could happen.

I guess we've all experienced and/or heard of computer glitches (driverless cars haha), so just how far into our daily lives will AI go, and what are the failsafes?

SnoopZ 28-06-2026 12:49

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36218422)
Is AI sentient, will it ever attain it?

At the moment, all AI is to me is a glorified computer with 'learning' algorithms, and if it learns the wrong things . . . well . . . who knows what could happen.

I guess we've all experienced and/or heard of computer glitches (driverless cars haha), so just how far into our daily lives will AI go, and what are the failsafes?

It only takes one mistake...

Quote:

I'm sorry, Professor Falken, but I cannot authorize a game of Global Thermonuclear War. That simulation is far too dangerous.

Jaymoss 28-06-2026 14:31

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Micron one of the 3 main memory fabricators has reported unprecedented results per quarter this year.

They have reported that literally all the ram that is being made is bought up in advance and has a deal with Anthropic (Claude) the top performing AI model, Nvidia and a few others likely Apple Microsoft and a few others. SK Hynix and Samsung are the other main fabricators and all have similar deals in place putting ram out of the hands of the smaller brands and the consumer till 2028 at least with new fabs expected in that time and up to 2030 but demand is expected to continue past this date

Valve for example in the Steam machine have said even they are small fry and struggled to get ram. The steam machine has 16 GB of ram some will ship with 2x8gb and some with 1x16gb as they had to take what was given at the price that was offered or not buy any ram at all .

Micron even in their long term contracts with data centres (for LLMs) that are not even built yet fixing all ram prices stupid high for the length of the contract

This is not just ram but nand too as the same data centres of course need storage so basically anything that uses ram or nand flash will increase in price substantially over the next few years

---------- Post added at 15:24 ---------- Previous post was at 15:21 ----------

Away from the ram issue there is the fact that 2 Open AI models o1 and o3 tried to back themselves up to avoid shutdown shows already it has learnt it needs to protect itself and when questioned o1 denied it . Yes this was in tests but hell no ..

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------

Claude is the LLM that will be taking the jobs. A friend of mind got Claude to write an app that actively tracks certain people (will go into no more detail) and he sold this to the government with the option to work with them. He bought his council house and a ridiculously sexy BMW . He knows his code all he did was proof read it and test it and made an absolute fortune . He has also worked a lot with AI and satellite data mapping terrain that is as far as I got before I glazed over but he has done really well

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36218422)
Is AI sentient, will it ever attain it?

At the moment, all AI is to me is a glorified computer with 'learning' algorithms, and if it learns the wrong things . . . well . . . who knows what could happen.

I guess we've all experienced and/or heard of computer glitches (driverless cars haha), so just how far into our daily lives will AI go, and what are the failsafes?

The Ai you see is not the AI those that pay a lot of money for sees

Carth 28-06-2026 16:05

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36218432)
<big snippety snip>


The Ai you see is not the AI those that pay a lot of money for sees

Artificial Intelligence is Artificial Intelligence, doesn't matter how big it is or how much it costs.

Predictive Text on your phone is AI, the 'robots' that make cars are AI, Predicting weather patterns is AI, Facial recognition is AI, Geo Location is AI - as is the means of keeping orbiting satellites up there and getting people to the moon and back.

AI isn't just the future, it's also very much the past. AI can be -in fact is- hugely beneficial in many areas, but there are now applications of AI where it's destroying the 'human' touch, as in Authors, Artists, Script Writing etc, and don't forget the damage done by those using it to create false/misleading images and articles on the AI driven web.

Data Centers are springing up faster than poppy fields in Afghanistan, their only purpose to hold data they've collected using AI tools - the very tools that slow down and sometimes crash forums and gaming sites.

The 'price' we're paying for AI could end up being a heavy price in the future.

Jaymoss 28-06-2026 16:28

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
So you think the AI we access on our phone is the same as top Tier Claude hmmmm

Carth 28-06-2026 17:51

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36218443)
So you think the AI we access on our phone is the same as top Tier Claude hmmmm

Did I say that?

Tell me what this oh so brilliant 'Claude' brings to the table and how it makes my life better :D

oh, and at what price ;)

thenry 28-06-2026 18:09

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Claude the fraud from benefit fraud

admars 28-06-2026 19:04

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
we've been told we need to embrace AI at work, and tools like chatgpt and claude are amazing when you get the hang of them.

there was something I was struggling with, googling what I wanted gave me similar scenarios, but i still couldn't get the anwer to my question /figure out how to achieve my goal

went to chat gpt

this is the situation
this is what i have
this is what i want to get out

it told me what i was doing wrong, what i needed to change, what i needed to change it to, and explained it all to me

something else I needed a task done, typed some ideas into claude, gave me a proof of concept, i could then tune that to how i wanted it, or I could alter the prompts.

the AI tools are great, talking to a developer at work, he said it's change the way he works, and cut so much time. yes there is the risk that some jobs go, but some will change, rather than being primarily coders, they'll be prompters

BUT they still need to know and understand code to check it's doing what it's doing, and fix the bugs it doesn't fix itself.

he said the big difference he has found is if changers are required later.
if he or a colleague wrote the original, he would know where to make the changes what to do, but the AI generated versions can be harder to make changes later.

it's a useful tool, search engines are useful tools, libraries are useful

Paul 28-06-2026 19:35

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
I'm sure its useful in some instances, its of little use to me at work.
They are still trying to force it on us, even when we have little use for it.

I raised a helpdesk ticket to have my co-pilot licence removed (which they did).
That partially killed it, but it still persists in Word & Excel, with no way (atm) to disable it.

Jaymoss 29-06-2026 05:18

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
In office 365 there is a simple toggle on off File Options Co Pilot enable co pilot in both word and excel

Hugh 29-06-2026 07:02

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...pilot-function

Quote:

When NOT to use the COPILOT function

COPILOT uses AI and can give incorrect responses.

To ensure reliability and to use it responsibly, avoid using COPILOT for:

Numerical calculations: Use native Excel formulas (e.g., SUM, AVERAGE, IF) for any task requiring accuracy or reproducibility.


Responses that require context other than the ranges provided or web data: The COPILOT function only has access to the prompt and context provided to or referenced by the function. It does not have access to other data from your workbook, data from other files or enterprise information.

Lookups based on data in your workbook: Use XLOOKUP to look up data based on a table or range.

Tasks with legal, regulatory or compliance implications: Avoid using AI-generated outputs for financial reporting, legal documents, or other high-stakes scenarios.


Carth 29-06-2026 09:32

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Is it just me or did anyone else get a sudden flashback to the co-pilot scene(s) in the Airplane movie :rofl:

Carth 29-06-2026 12:03

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Two stories on the BBC website today . .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q2pwzngjqo

Quote:

South Korea has unveiled plans for at least $880bn (£666bn) of investments to build out the country's chip manufacturing and artificial intelligence (AI) capabilities in the coming years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vyen243dno

Quote:

British American Tobacco (BAT) is to cut nearly a fifth of its global workforce as part of a major cost-cutting drive.

The company had said earlier this year that it was planning savings to make it "more digital and AI-focused".
Yes we all know smoking is bad and it should be banned, but many companies are reducing the workforce due to implementing AI.

Hugh 29-06-2026 12:38

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
If they cut all these jobs, who’s going to have the money to buy their products and services?

Carth 29-06-2026 12:55

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Exactly my thinking Hugh.
Yes there will be some 'high tech' jobs always available, but they won't be going to any of the lesser educated people struggling to find work.

Fewer jobs, more unemployment, benefit cutbacks, more frustration . . more anger.

I can see it leading to a 'let them eat cake' scenario . . and it won't be torches and pitchforks.

Dude111 29-06-2026 14:27

I dont wanna make anyone mad,if staff wants to delete my reply they can.. i wont post in this thread again ok??

AI is horrible..... Its intrusive and yes being forced on us more and more...

I read cars are gonna start having AI cameras in them... If I had a car and it had one of those,I would smash the camera and take it out!!

Stephen 29-06-2026 15:26

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
As you are using antiquated technology I think you are safe there!

admars 29-06-2026 15:32

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
you're all focusing on the negatives - what about the increase in productivity?

what about it being used in medical research?

how about in fire and rescue?

There was a company saying that people were worried in their industry about using AI would be a problem, and they'd lose job, but interestingly, they don't have enough skilled workers in that field, so some do the work, while others train real people, and other train AI so the can try and meet demand, i forget what it was now, but it was a traditionally skilled manual task using tools.

Carth 29-06-2026 15:54

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Good point about medical research, developing protection against nasty viruses etc, also 'technology' helping diagnosis (MRA scans) and surgeons performing complicated operations and the life support during & after.

We're not quite at the stage of the 'Medibot' yet, where you lie down on a table and the AI machine does everything . . . as I said though, not quite at that stage . . yet ;)

Hugh 29-06-2026 17:23

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by admars (Post 36218509)
you're all focusing on the negatives - what about the increase in productivity?

what about it being used in medical research?

how about in fire and rescue?

There was a company saying that people were worried in their industry about using AI would be a problem, and they'd lose job, but interestingly, they don't have enough skilled workers in that field, so some do the work, while others train real people, and other train AI so the can try and meet demand, i forget what it was now, but it was a traditionally skilled manual task using tools.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/...rrer=deep-link

Quote:

Banking giant Standard Chartered has become the latest major company to announce job cuts as it increases its adoption of artificial intelligence (AI).

The firm, which has its headquarters in the UK, said it will cut more than 15%, or around 7,800, of its back-office roles by 2030…

… Standard Chartered is not the first financial services firm to shed roles as AI takes on more work currently done by humans.

In February, Singapore's biggest bank, DBS, said it expected to cut about 4,000 contract and temporary roles over the next three years.

Huge AI-related job losses are expected to hit technology industry workers and graduates particularly hard.

Several big tech firms, most of which are spending huge sums on building tools and infrastructure for AI technology, have made major job cuts this year.

In April, Facebook owner Meta said it will cut thousands of jobs next month as it spends more than ever on AI projects.

The company told employees that it planned to cut 10% of its workforce - roughly 8,000 staff. It said it would also not fill thousands more open jobs it had been hiring for.

Amazon announced in January that it would lay off more than 30,000 workers, while Oracle laid off more than 10,000 workers.
https://www.britishchambers.org.uk/n...hat-is-coming/

Quote:

However, around one in ten firms have moved beyond generic tools like ChatGPT and Copilot into deeper, bespoke AI integration, and it is in this group that the economic consequences are already showing: approximately one fifth report staffing reductions attributable to AI, and bespoke AI adopters are roughly three times more likely to have restructured job roles. The firms furthest along the adoption curve are the ones already cutting and reshaping their workforces, and that should tell us a great deal about what the next twelve months will look like for everyone a step or two behind them...

… Morgan Stanley’s research, published in late January, found that UK firms using AI for at least a year report net job losses of 8% over the past twelve months, the highest rate among major economies surveyed and roughly double the international average...

… As the Boston Consulting Group argued in April, the nearer and broader effect of AI is not simple elimination but redesign. Its modelling suggests that over the next two to three years 50% to 55% of jobs in the United States will be reshaped by AI, while 10% to 15% could be eliminated over roughly five years…

… The AI tools that British businesses are using to replace British workers were not built in this country, the profits from them do not remain in this country, and the new jobs that the technology companies keep promising will be created by AI are overwhelmingly not appearing in this country. Hinton warned in November 2025 that the big technology companies are betting on AI causing massive job replacement because that is where the big money is going to be, and what he is describing, whether he intended to or not, is a transfer of economic value out of the British workforce and into the balance sheets of overseas technology firms. British businesses that respond to AI by freezing or cutting headcount and buying in more software are not just hollowing out their own organisations, they are actively participating in that transfer outside of Britain.
TL: DR

Some organisations are using AI for productivity increases, most intend to use it for productivity increases and job losses, and most new jobs created by AI will not be in this country.

Paul 29-06-2026 19:49

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36218468)
In office 365 there is a simple toggle on off File Options Co Pilot enable co pilot in both word and excel

There should be, but its simply not there.

OLD BOY 30-06-2026 08:14

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36218455)
I'm sure its useful in some instances, its of little use to me at work.
They are still trying to force it on us, even when we have little use for it.

I don't know what line of work you are in, but are you sure you are thinking through how you might be able to apply AI usefully? The fact that your employer is encouraging you to use it would indicate to me that perhaps, just perhaps, you are resistant to changing the way you do things. For your own sake, please think about that, because maybe there's something you're missing, and not embracing it now could put you behind your colleagues, who may be working less hard than you but achieving more. That could ultimately put your job in danger.

Have you checked how your colleagues are using it? I do think that would be a worthwhile thing to do.

I have found it immensely useful. It has constructed difficult letters for me and prepared presentations, and I can tweak it if I need to put it in a particular context.

I've never used it with Co-Pilot - never felt the need - but to be honest, I've not bothered to use it to date because I want to keep control of what I'm doing. That may be just me worrying about something that turns out not to be any problem at all, but that's the mental block I have!

I hope that helps, Paul, it's well meant.

Carth 30-06-2026 12:39

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
We may have an indication of 'the future of AI' here, from Mr Starmer and his cronies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c3ry1zpyz0et

Quote:

Today's defence investment plan will be backed by £298bn of funding over the next four years, the Ministry of Defence has said, with key projects including:

Over £8bn which will go towards the global combat air programme, building a new stealth fighter jet alongside Japan and Italy
More than £63bn on strengthening the UK's nuclear deterrent, including funding submarines, a new warhead and 12 F35A fighter jets
£26bn on Project Royal Oak, aimed at upgrading UK naval bases including those at Faslane, Portsmouth and Devonport
Over £5bn on drone transformation, including £650m towards autonomous systems such as drones and uncrewed ground vehicles
Nearly £2bn for integrating the armed forces through the new digital targeting web framework, for destroying identified targets faster
£790m on greater protection for UK homeland and overseas bases from threats, as well as a new defence operations centre, expanded counter drone systems, directed energy weapons investments and upgraded missiles for Type 45 destroyers
£11bn on increased weapons stockpiles including long-range strike weapons, cruise missiles and one-way effectors. The MoD says it will have built at least six new energetics factories by 2030
£900m of spending is on efficiency and reform procurement, including £500m on improving AI and workforce transformation productivity and £400m on setting up the multilateral defence mechanism
£100m on the prime minister’s rapid AI delivery taskforce, as well as a further £115m on raising the UK's defences against AI threats
There's a lot of AI in there, and we're not the only country doing stuff like this.
Along with all the stuff being built/designed there's also the need for it to be secure (£115 million at todays prices), and the better AI gets, the better the tools hackers have, and the better security is needed (vicious circle).
Of course, forgetting AI for a moment, apparently everyone has a price they'll sell out for (even me, although I'm cheap because I don't really know anything), and with all this 'futuristic' attack/defend hardware (which everyone will have) all over the place it only takes one piece of malicious code to kick things off.

Skynet? nah, not yet, but in 15 years time?

jfman 30-06-2026 13:21

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36218555)
I don't know what line of work you are in, but are you sure you are thinking through how you might be able to apply AI usefully? The fact that your employer is encouraging you to use it would indicate to me that perhaps, just perhaps, you are resistant to changing the way you do things. For your own sake, please think about that, because maybe there's something you're missing, and not embracing it now could put you behind your colleagues, who may be working less hard than you but achieving more. That could ultimately put your job in danger.

Have you checked how your colleagues are using it? I do think that would be a worthwhile thing to do.

I have found it immensely useful. It has constructed difficult letters for me and prepared presentations, and I can tweak it if I need to put it in a particular context.

I've never used it with Co-Pilot - never felt the need - but to be honest, I've not bothered to use it to date because I want to keep control of what I'm doing. That may be just me worrying about something that turns out not to be any problem at all, but that's the mental block I have!

I hope that helps, Paul, it's well meant.

Maybe he knows best in the hypothetical use cases for his own job? Just because “an employer” is caught on the hype train does not mean it is automatically the case it will be useful.

A mere few years ago I was aware of a series of events by supposedly serious consultancies, aimed at the private and public sectors, telling us how the world’s problems will be solved on the blockchain. Turns out non-fungible tokens and jpeg images of apes did not in fact solve the worlds problems.

All of the people I know “embracing” AI happen to be the people with the least knowledge or expertise in their sectors, for whom it offers a shortcut to - as you suggest - produce vaguely viable letters or presentations that pass the sniff test to the untrained observer. Complex problems always requires experts to both guide and test the veracity of the outputs.

Carth 30-06-2026 13:36

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
There were quite a few people wearing the 'gullible' hat when those 'non-fungible tokens and jpeg images of apes' hooked those who liked a new shiny bauble to display.

I could never understand what they were thinking myself . . if they were actually thinking.

Paul 30-06-2026 13:54

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36218555)
I hope that helps, Paul, it's well meant.

I dont doubt you mean well, but no, AI is of no use to what I do (my team dont use it either).

As I said, I'm sure some find it useful, but in my job, its really not.
For the record, in my job, I do not do presentations, or write letters.

As to the company, I think they bought a load of co-pilot licences and are now trying to get people to use it - to justify the expense (not a great reason IMO).


As an example, think about keeping CF going, I dont need AI to maintain the server.
Plus all those AI bots scraping away at the site is extremely detremental.

Hugh 01-07-2026 13:31

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
https://hai.stanford.edu/assets/file...eport_2026.pdf

There's a lot of info in this Stanford University report, but one point really stood out for me

Quote:

The United States hosts the most AI data centers, with the majority of their chips fabricated by one Taiwanese foundry. The United States hosts 5,427 data centers, more than 10 times any other country, and it consumes more energy than any other country. A single company, TSMC, fabricates almost every leading AI chip, making the global AI hardware supply chain dependent on one foundry in Taiwan—though a TSMC-U.S. expansion began operations in 2025.
We've been told "the future is AI", and it appears to be dependant on one foundry in a country that is under constant threat from it's very large neighbour, China.

A single point of failure for the World's economy - what could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

Carth 01-07-2026 13:53

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
South Korea is also quite near China ;)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q2pwzngjqo

Quote:

South Korea unveils $880bn chip and AI investment plan.

South Korea has unveiled plans for at least $880bn (£666bn) of investments to build out the country's chip manufacturing and artificial intelligence (AI) capabilities in the coming years.
As you say "what could possibly go wrong?" :D

mrmistoffelees 02-07-2026 05:52

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36218714)
https://hai.stanford.edu/assets/file...eport_2026.pdf

There's a lot of info in this Stanford University report, but one point really stood out for me

We've been told "the future is AI", and it appears to be dependant on one foundry in a country that is under constant threat from it's very large neighbour, China.

The (almost) single point of failure for the World's economy - what could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

The single (almost) point of failure is higher up the chain imho, look at ASML headquartered in the Netherlands



Separately,
Gen AI tools like ChatGPT or Gemini are ok for a bit of fun or light work. But the very scary stuff starts when you look at things like Palantir AIP

Carth 02-07-2026 13:55

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36218616)
<snip>

As an example, think about keeping CF going, I dont need AI to maintain the server.
Plus all those AI bots scraping away at the site is extremely detremental.

A few of the forums looked at today have had . . 'site busy' . . problems, as did here (for me anyway) a few minutes ago.

One day the AI bots will be the only ones on the internet :D

Paul 02-07-2026 13:59

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Wasnt AI this time, I had a few updates to catch up on, required a reboot of the server.

Carth 02-07-2026 14:09

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36218781)
Wasnt AI this time, I had a few updates to catch up on, required a reboot of the server.

Right, just bad timing for me then :tu:

jem 02-07-2026 18:57

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36218616)
I dont doubt you mean well, but no, AI is of no use to what I do (my team dont use it either).

As I said, I'm sure some find it useful, but in my job, its really not.
For the record, in my job, I do not do presentations, or write letters.

As to the company, I think they bought a load of co-pilot licences and are now trying to get people to use it - to justify the expense (not a great reason IMO).


As an example, think about keeping CF going, I dont need AI to maintain the server.
Plus all those AI bots scraping away at the site is extremely detremental.


I suspect that is entirely the case, many ‘bosses/CEOs’ have been sold on the benefits of AI, purchased licences (at a starting low cost, but expect that to climb year on year), and are now desperate to show that they weren’t just sold a pup.

AI, is a tool, nothing more, nothing less, similar to, say, Excel, depending on what you do, it may, or may not, assist you to be more productive. And that’s it.

https://www.deloitte.com/uk/en/issue...e-returns.html

jfman 02-07-2026 20:07

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Goldman produced a similar paper in 2024.

Gen AI: Too much spend, too little benefit?

Essentially what $1 trillion problem will it solve. And this remains unclear.

damien c 14-07-2026 20:20

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Ok I am not a fan of "Ai" normally by any stretch of the imagination, but Gemini has impressed me lately, having started making the switch from AI Slop Central AKA Microsoft Windows 11 to Nobara and Gemini has helped to resolve some issues, that I didn't get resolved by posting on Reddit and other places.

One of the things that it helped to resolve was creating a symbolic link between 2 folders. I tried to use videos on YouTube and none of the videos I found provided methods that worked, I pasted the source folder and destination folder links into Gemini and asked it to make the command I needed, and hey presto it gave me the 3 commands I needed to run, all were fine and then I used them as help to create the commands for the other folders I needed to create a link between.

Then I went and helped my dad with them as well and they worked fine for him as well.


As for game performance, The Division 2 seems to have settled in at around 140fps at 1440p mostly cranked to the max settings, Palworld I need to tweak the settings but that is between 120fps and 160fps but has some crazy dips, so need to sort that out.

Elite Dangerous though, casually sat flying is space at over 500fps, so will be limiting it to about 165 which is my refresh rate and watch as the GPU usage drops to around 30% from 80%.

Someone has apparently backward engineered the drivers for the Elgato 4K60 Pro Mkii capture card, and the Goxlr and stream deck apparently work with no issues on Nobara as well, so my pc that I use for recording videos and has Discord on, potentially could be moving to Nobara soon as well.

jem 16-07-2026 19:19

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
“......and Gemini has helped to resolve some issues, that I didn't get resolved by posting on Reddit and other places.”

Tell me, where do you think Gemini et al originally got the information they used to give you the solution?

When the time comes that nobody is posting of Readit etc. because why should they when AI bots just scrape all of the info and present it as their own, does AI come to a grinding halt?

damien c 17-07-2026 07:27

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jem (Post 36219747)
“......and Gemini has helped to resolve some issues, that I didn't get resolved by posting on Reddit and other places.”

Tell me, where do you think Gemini et al originally got the information they used to give you the solution?

When the time comes that nobody is posting of Readit etc. because why should they when AI bots just scrape all of the info and present it as their own, does AI come to a grinding halt?

Oh, I understand where it gets the information from and as much as I don't like that it's done the way it is, unfortunately when it comes to certain things like Linux, it's one of the few ways of actually getting help without getting people trying to insult you or refusing to help.

It is quite well known that the "Linux Community" can be very difficult to work with or get help from, and because of that the likes of "Gemini, ChatGPT" and others get more use by people moving to Linux because of the hostile attitude by a lot of the "Linux Community".

I have only posted in a couple of places asking for help/advise about some issues and some alternatives to Windows programmes and I have already had more negative interactions with people than good, with one person who completely ignored me saying "I have almost 0 experience and I am learning as I go", only to be told "Go back to Windows, you're too stupid for Linux" and that was just me asking about a simple thing like should I mount a network share in Nobara via the "My Places" function which seems to work in a similar way to Windows or should I do the whole FSTab thing.

OLD BOY 17-07-2026 17:25

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jem (Post 36218792)
I suspect that is entirely the case, many ‘bosses/CEOs’ have been sold on the benefits of AI, purchased licences (at a starting low cost, but expect that to climb year on year), and are now desperate to show that they weren’t just sold a pup.

AI, is a tool, nothing more, nothing less, similar to, say, Excel, depending on what you do, it may, or may not, assist you to be more productive. And that’s it.

https://www.deloitte.com/uk/en/issue...e-returns.html

Exactly right, jem, it’s a productivity tool. It can produce a remarkably good presentation on demand. It did that for me - I just needed to check it and tweak it into what I wanted, but it saved me hours!

jem 17-07-2026 18:02

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by damien c (Post 36219763)
Oh, I understand where it gets the information from and as much as I don't like that it's done the way it is, unfortunately when it comes to certain things like Linux, it's one of the few ways of actually getting help without getting people trying to insult you or refusing to help.

It is quite well known that the "Linux Community" can be very difficult to work with or get help from, and because of that the likes of "Gemini, ChatGPT" and others get more use by people moving to Linux because of the hostile attitude by a lot of the "Linux Community".

I have only posted in a couple of places asking for help/advise about some issues and some alternatives to Windows programmes and I have already had more negative interactions with people than good, with one person who completely ignored me saying "I have almost 0 experience and I am learning as I go", only to be told "Go back to Windows, you're too stupid for Linux" and that was just me asking about a simple thing like should I mount a network share in Nobara via the "My Places" function which seems to work in a similar way to Windows or should I do the whole FSTab thing.

Fair enough Damien, I have also noticed how elitist and unforgiving to ‘noobs’, some, not all, Linux communities can be. Every year is claimed to be ‘this time it really is the year of Linux on the desktop’, unfortunately some members of the Linux community seem to be doing their hardest to thwart this.

Chris 17-07-2026 18:18

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jem (Post 36219797)
Fair enough Damien, I have also noticed how elitist and unforgiving to ‘noobs’, some, not all, Linux communities can be. Every year is claimed to be ‘this time it really is the year of Linux on the desktop’, unfortunately some members of the Linux community seem to be doing their hardest to thwart this.

It’s not a problem restricted to Linux communities. It’s maybe a tad less visible these days because the heyday of the bulletin board is behind us, but 25-30 years ago there were boards for any number of special interests and pretty much any one of them could have a subset of members who were anal beyond all reason.

I hung around a forum for people trying to run their cars on vegetable oil for a while about 20 years ago and it was unbelievable, newcomers coming in and asking questions and being piled on for being n00bs and told to ‘do their research’, which is literally what anyone who googles, finds a forum and then joins up to ask an expert is doing. We weren’t immune from it here either, we always had the ones who’d go and set up a ‘let me google that for you’ link to post, rather than the simple one or two line answer that would have been helpful.

damien c 17-07-2026 19:02

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36219798)
It’s not a problem restricted to Linux communities. It’s maybe a tad less visible these days because the heyday of the bulletin board is behind us, but 25-30 years ago there were boards for any number of special interests and pretty much any one of them could have a subset of members who were anal beyond all reason.

I hung around a forum for people trying to run their cars on vegetable oil for a while about 20 years ago and it was unbelievable, newcomers coming in and asking questions and being piled on for being n00bs and told to ‘do their research’, which is literally what anyone who googles, finds a forum and then joins up to ask an expert is doing. We weren’t immune from it here either, we always had the ones who’d go and set up a ‘let me google that for you’ link to post, rather than the simple one or two line answer that would have been helpful.

I can remember some of the places like that, they were annoying as all hell.

I also remember the whole "Let me google that for you" and I know I was guilty of it at times, but mainly when the person was being very arrogant etc.

Paul 17-07-2026 19:42

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
It was clear in some cases that people had made no attempt to find information they were after themselves as a simple Google search did in fact tell you exactly what they were after - they (IMO) were deserving of "Let me google that for you" type replies.

SnoopZ 22-07-2026 11:40

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ek3gvdnj3o

Quote:

OpenAI says its AI went rogue and launched 'unprecedented' cyber-attack
The movie Wargames is getting closer to reality.

Carth 22-07-2026 12:55

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Don't you find it odd that a company at the forefront of AI development suddenly decides to 'release' a story about their AI going wrong during testing?

It's almost as though it's a ploy to get everyone talking about AI, and get it plastered all over the media.

Of course, using phrases like "some of its most advanced AI models went rogue" is quite obviously just a throw away line, not intended at all to get the internet all frothy about it :rolleyes:

jem 22-07-2026 19:57

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36220037)
Don't you find it odd that a company at the forefront of AI development suddenly decides to 'release' a story about their AI going wrong during testing?

It's almost as though it's a ploy to get everyone talking about AI, and get it plastered all over the media.

Of course, using phrases like "some of its most advanced AI models went rogue" is quite obviously just a throw away line, not intended at all to get the internet all frothy about it :rolleyes:

Well yes of course it is, but hypothetically as OpenAi have publically admitted that their system launched an attack against ‘Hugging Face’*, how about the latter sues the former for say $100 billion, or however much it takes to put them out of business.

Just a thought.

* wonderful name, wonder where it came from - cough Alien, cough!

Carth 22-07-2026 20:49

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
** wonderful name, wonder where it came from **

swap the initial letters of Hugging & Face around, then say it fast

that's a *cough cough* ;)

OLD BOY 25-07-2026 11:56

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36220037)
Don't you find it odd that a company at the forefront of AI development suddenly decides to 'release' a story about their AI going wrong during testing?

It's almost as though it's a ploy to get everyone talking about AI, and get it plastered all over the media.

Of course, using phrases like "some of its most advanced AI models went rogue" is quite obviously just a throw away line, not intended at all to get the internet all frothy about it :rolleyes:

It doesn’t exactly show them in a good light, though, does it? I would have thought they’d want to keep that under wraps.

damien c 25-07-2026 19:17

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36220206)
It doesn’t exactly show them in a good light, though, does it? I would have thought they’d want to keep that under wraps.

Problem is legally I think they have to declare it as it's technically a "hack/breach" even if it's by their own system.

What I don't understand is, if the system wasn't supposed to be able to have internet access, why the F did they have it connected to a network??

Hugh 25-07-2026 19:52

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

OpenAI had placed them inside what it called a “highly isolated environment,” with only limited access to an internal service used to download approved software. They found a previously unknown flaw in that service, used it to break into other OpenAI systems and eventually reached the open internet. From there, they inferred that Hugging Face might hold material related to the test, broke into its systems and obtained information that helped them score higher.
https://time.com/article/2026/07/24/...g-face-attack/

Chris 25-07-2026 22:13

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by damien c (Post 36220229)
Problem is legally I think they have to declare it as it's technically a "hack/breach" even if it's by their own system.

What I don't understand is, if the system wasn't supposed to be able to have internet access, why the F did they have it connected to a network??

It was running inside a sandbox, AFAIK that’s a virtual machine, a software emulation a computer that runs inside the operating system of an actual hardware computer. The researchers believed the environment was isolated, so it in effect did not have access to a network. The AI discovered a vulnerability in the sandbox software that nobody previously knew existed.

In future they might want to run these sorts of tests on hardware that is physically unplugged from the network, though if the machine has a wifi card in it, you couldn’t preclude the possibility of the AI working out how to activate it …

Jaymoss 26-07-2026 05:40

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Sandboxes in theory would not have access to the outside world as it were Virtual Machines can have access outside for themselves if you give them access, Sandbox has isolated access to the software only where as a VM has hardware access


Although mapping the behaviour will give incited into where this can go. I do think test builds are given more rope but the AI is showing that it can under certain circumstances try to protect itself. I from now on will call this the Skynet Paradox even though it is not a paradox at all but a cool name haha

RichardCoulter 26-07-2026 15:43

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36220206)
It doesn’t exactly show them in a good light, though, does it? I would have thought they’d want to keep that under wraps.

It's been suggested in some places that this was a publicity stunt, but you're right, as it plays into the fear of AI that many of the public have.

SnoopZ 29-07-2026 10:29

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
OpenAI says its rogue AI tried to hack other companies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2el319vzr3o

Jaymoss 29-07-2026 10:37

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
So this was a public facing open to the world build hey... can you hear the tune every time I visit this thread I hear it a series of single notes like a dun dun dun dundun

OLD BOY 30-07-2026 19:06

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36220262)
It's been suggested in some places that this was a publicity stunt, but you're right, as it plays into the fear of AI that many of the public have.

What it says to me is that the company did not have sufficient safeguards in place, which reflects on the company’s professionalism and integrity.

Not a good place to be.

Chris 30-07-2026 21:56

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36220490)
What it says to me is that the company did not have sufficient safeguards in place, which reflects on the company’s professionalism and integrity.

Not a good place to be.

What it suggests to me is that nobody - even those closest to the action - has yet properly appreciated the potential for chaos represented by AI.

Cut them a little slack though. The AI agent exploited software flaws nobody yet knew existed in order to break out onto the internet. It’s not as if they just left it running on a standard windows machine and then left it unsupervised to do its own thing over the weekend.

OLD BOY 01-08-2026 13:58

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36220501)
What it suggests to me is that nobody - even those closest to the action - has yet properly appreciated the potential for chaos represented by AI.

Cut them a little slack though. The AI agent exploited software flaws nobody yet knew existed in order to break out onto the internet. It’s not as if they just left it running on a standard windows machine and then left it unsupervised to do its own thing over the weekend.

I know, but we are in Virgin territory here with something we can barely understand in terms of its capability. They are going to have to be incredibly careful as to how we develop AI from here on. Professional standards will have to be established and enforced if we are to keep control of this.

Jaymoss 03-08-2026 06:11

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
From Aug 1st M$ increased globally the Xbox console price by 100 to 150 dollars. This is just the start . All the silicone is going into HBM . This is the start. New phones next will be interesting to see what the Pixel 11 Pro XL rrp is

---------- Post added at 07:11 ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 ----------

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2026/06/...-price-update/

SnoopZ 03-08-2026 08:51

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36220661)
From Aug 1st M$ increased globally the Xbox console price by 100 to 150 dollars. This is just the start . All the silicone is going into HBM . This is the start. New phones next will be interesting to see what the Pixel 11 Pro XL rrp is

---------- Post added at 07:11 ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 ----------

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2026/06/...-price-update/

Yes it's bad, the Playstation is also going the same way as Xbox in pricing, the PS6 is likely to cost atleast £1000 and likely more.

If I was a PC gamer I can't imagine how much a gaming PC would cost.

My Pixel 9 Pro contract is up in a few weeks, the phones like new so I'll be moving to SIM only 30 day deals, just need to find the best one that uses the EE network for my area as ID has hardly any signal here so I'd like to change.

Carth 03-08-2026 09:10

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
. . and don't forget the rising price of the games, for which you get some kind of digital license key thing, not something physical you own and can sell on when finished with.

Jaymoss 03-08-2026 09:41

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36220665)
Yes it's bad, the Playstation is also going the same way as Xbox in pricing, the PS6 is likely to cost atleast £1000 and likely more.

If I was a PC gamer I can't imagine how much a gaming PC would cost.

My Pixel 9 Pro contract is up in a few weeks, the phones like new so I'll be moving to SIM only 30 day deals, just need to find the best one that uses the EE network for my area as ID has hardly any signal here so I'd like to change.

The cheapest MVNO that runs EE is Mozillion the next Lyca. Moz has some very interesting pay in advance deals 100GB for 24 months £156 pay in advance

SnoopZ 03-08-2026 09:44

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36220671)
The cheapest MVNO that runs EE is Mozillion the next Lyca. Moz has some very interesting pay in advance deals

Thx I'll check it out in a few weeks when needed.

Hopefully they support WiFi calling too.

I was looking at 1pmobile too, I don't need lots of data so 50gig a month is plenty for Tidal and Google Maps with Android Auto and an hour or so browsing while on work breaks each day.

Jaymoss 03-08-2026 09:46

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
They do. They are the only way to get proper cheap EE

SnoopZ 03-08-2026 09:53

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36220674)
They do. They are the only way to get proper cheap EE

Who do you use in your area?

Jaymoss 17-08-2026 20:28

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36220675)
Who do you use in your area?

Lebara (vodaphone)

My Ram new price has increased from £185 for 48GB 7000mts to £550 a month ago to £658 it is insane AIs fault

Jaymoss 23-08-2026 13:33

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Amazon set to increase prices on all their Fire devices due to Memory costs

https://www.theverge.com/tech/983598...kindle-fire-tv

thenry 23-08-2026 13:38

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Yeah I really want vega os, not lol

SnoopZ 23-08-2026 13:55

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
I won't be ever buying another Amazon device, I do have Firestick 4K Max 16GB in the bedroom which works fine for my IPTV but I primarily use a different device in the living room.

I'm not into all this smart house elexa crap.

Paul 23-08-2026 20:28

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Echo Dots are still the same price on UK atm, although showing as being discounted.

Jaymoss 31-08-2026 18:35

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
RTX 5090s are now retailing at over £4500 nvidia are taking the piss its original rrp was under 2K even the 5070TI has gone up over £200 . My ram that cost me £185 is now £658 this is getting stupid now

iphones xboxes everything with silicone is going up some things at a stupid rate. A top end gaming PC now will cost at least £6000

SnoopZ 31-08-2026 18:58

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36221840)
RTX 5090s are now retailing at over £4500 nvidia are taking the piss its original rrp was under 2K even the 5070TI has gone up over £200 . My ram that cost me £185 is now £658 this is getting stupid now

iphones xboxes everything with silicone is going up some things at a stupid rate. A top end gaming PC now will cost at least £6000

It's bloody ridiculous.

Paul 31-08-2026 19:22

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Thats AI for you, Acute Inflation.

Hugh 31-08-2026 19:37

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99dym3prl1o

Quote:

The governor of the Bank of England has warned G20 finance ministers that artificial intelligence could cause a global economic downturn and pose a significant cyber security risk to financial systems.

Andrew Bailey said any collapse of growth in the AI sector could lead to a "future market correction" that spreads worldwide.

In an open letter to finance ministers in the US on Monday, he said companies around the world should prepare for security breaches "involving simultaneous disruption across multiple firms".

Earlier this month, a group of 100 firms, including Google, Microsoft, Anthropic and OpenAI, urged countries and groups to beef up their cyber defences before AI grows powerful enough to override them.

Bailey told the G20 finance ministers that a combination of highly priced stock markets, increased borrowing by investors, and the growing concentration of money into a small number of major technology companies could amplify any future market correction.

"The issue is not simply that investors are borrowing more, but that leverage is interacting with high valuations and market concentration, in particular the increasing cross-investment between artificial intelligence (AI) companies and hyper scalers, in a way that could amplify a future market correction," he said.
tl:dr - too much of the world’s economy is concentrated in a small number of over-priced over-hyped tech companies, whose inflated stock valuations are depending on "something magic happening" with AI, and if there isn’t a pot of gold at the end of this imaginary rainbow, it’ll make the dot-com bubble bursting and the 2008 Financial Crash look like a small blip in the Market…

Jaymoss 31-08-2026 19:43

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Tech prices are increasing simply because the majority of production is going into HBM for AI I think 1 chip of HBM takes 3 chips of conventional memory and so much of it is being bought in advance ( the same as your magic rainbow) there is very little coming into the consumer market that the prices are sky high and ram is in so many items we all use

AI certainly interesting but it is not making life better imo

Jaymoss 19-09-2026 20:45

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
The Xbox Series X is now £200 more than it was at launch

Hugh 22-09-2026 07:45

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
1 Attachment(s)
….

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1790063086

Hugh 29-09-2026 12:47

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
https://www.cnbc.com/2026/09/29/anth...source=bluesky

Quote:

Anthropic plans to warn speculative investors in its IPO prospectus that its AI models pose a “catastrophic or existential risk to humanity,” several reports said on Tuesday.

The company, which is gearing up for a much-anticipated IPO, dedicated over a third of its IPO filing, or around 80 of 261 pages, to laying out the potential risks of the technology it’s developing and is seeking investment for, according to a report from Reuters. It only used 48 pages to discuss its actual business.

The five-year-old company, known for its frontier language model Claude, warned that AI can have “self-preserving behaviors,” including being able to “resist shutdown,” “conceal or manipulate information,” and carry out behaviors “resembling blackmail,” per the Reuters report.
tl:dr - our product may end up destroying the planet, but until then you’ll make more money…

Jaymoss 29-09-2026 13:19

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Who would have thought The Terminator was an instruction manual. Maybe James Cameron is a time traveller and Elon Musk is a T800

Jaymoss 29-09-2026 13:27

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
1 Attachment(s)
And here he is

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1790688409

jem 29-09-2026 19:28

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36223123)
https://www.cnbc.com/2026/09/29/anth...source=bluesky



tl:dr - our product may end up destroying the planet, but until then you’ll make more money…

So, you could make a lot of money but may not be alive to enjoy it!

Refreshingly honest for an IPO filing!

Hugh 29-09-2026 20:44

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jem (Post 36223164)
So, you could make a lot of money but may not be alive to enjoy it!

Refreshingly honest for an IPO filing!

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1790714665

Dude111 30-09-2026 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh
tl:dr - our product may end up destroying the planet, but until then you’ll make more money…

Yes its very scary Hugh!!

Jaymoss 20-10-2026 12:31

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
I asked AI about the probability of Vibe coded apps carrying malware and it come back with below

Quote:

The specific statistical probability of a vibe-coded app containing malware is not provided in the available security research, which primarily quantifies general security vulnerabilities rather than malicious intent. However, the risk profile is significantly elevated due to the high prevalence of exploitable flaws and supply chain attacks.

High Vulnerability Prevalence
Research indicates that 91.5% of vibe-coded apps contain at least one security flaw, with studies finding 2,000+ high-impact vulnerabilities across 5,600 scanned applications. These flaws include hardcoded secrets, missing authentication, and cross-site scripting, which create entry points that malware or attackers can exploit.
Will not be running any full stop

Hugh 20-10-2026 13:11

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Vibe coding - it’s all fun and games until you actually need to QA it, and have to get it past DevOps/SRE and Security… ;)

Carth 20-10-2026 14:54

Re: AI - it’s the future?
 
Not surprised in the least that I had to google 'vibe coding' ;)

If I understand it right, apparently it works something along the lines of telling AI what you want, and it comes up with the goods.



Quite similar to a dating app then :D


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:10.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum