Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Today we see the launch of the Valve Steam Machine and it has basically priced its way out of the market. The reason for this is RAM costs that have exploded all due to AI and AI is growing at an exponential rate . The companies getting priority is Nvidia Open AI and other hyperscale data centres

as someone who has been a system builder since 2000 I have seen spikes in sales drops in sales now to it is very rare I build a machine for anyone other than myself and I do not get the repairs in any more because almost everyone is on some sort of mobile device instead. For now I think there will be the hard core gamer but with AI only getting bigger and console gaming as well as cloud gaming I think PC is in real trouble.

GamersNexus on youtube has a few videos on all these subjects if it interests anyone

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I used to build (and upgrade) my own PC too, as do probably many others.
I've done no upgrades for a few years now . . and by upgrades I mean small jumps not massive performance hikes.

My GFX is still a crappy 750Ti on a B550 Gen 3 mobo with a Ryzen 5 5500 CPU and 16 Gig of DDR4.
It works, it plays some games. It won't play the games I'd like to play, even if I could afford the damn games.

Prices have left me behind, I could go second hand but don't want to go down that rabbit hole. I keep considering a PS5 for the gaming but probably couldn't handle using a controller . . and again the price of games is crippling.

I may change my name to Dude 2 :D

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Long live an office desktop :LOL:

I tried farming simulator on my Zephyrus but I couldn't remember all the keys :(

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

you are years away from being dude 2 haha

next xbox is going to run windows and should work with keyboard and mouse which could be another nail it PCs coffin

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Big no no to an Xbox, Microsoft can take a hike on that.

Do you think the huge rise in E-Sports also has an effect on the price of components and the push for bigger, better, faster and more expensive?

Those that play must be loaded . . or heavily sponsored

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

No, it's nearly all down to the AI companies pre-buying up all the memory (including SSD drives).

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Not just PC - my older 2 kids both got MacBooks for uni but the third preferred an iPad with keyboard. The form factor (a notepad she can read scripts or music from) is of more utility to her than a general purpose computer.

For myself, I still own a very old MacMini and an even older iMac but I’ve not powered either of them up in over a year. I use an iPad Pro day to day and it does more than what I need. Plus, like offspring no.3, what I substantially use it for is a replacement for printed paper, in my case from a lectern.

I used to tell myself I’d buy a new Mac of some description when I knew I needed it, but I’m wondering now if I ever will.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I remember work going ahead with a WinChip loaded with Windows that had a processor, RAM, video and sound all in one chip, with all the connectors for all peripheral devices and internet. And a simple PSU and HD all on a tiny mobo. Then it vanished.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I still know people who build gaming machines but costs have gone up so much.


I also think there is a shift. 20 years ago I would have always had a desktop machine.
Now I want the flexability of using ti wherever I want and taking ti with me so I'm more into Laptops.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I used to live on my PC years ago but since moving to console gaming(currently PS5 Pro) I only browse on 2 tablets and 1 mobile which basically makes the PC redundant, the only time I switch it on now is if I need to do an important email or online booking so I don't mess it up.

If my current PC died tomorrow I'm not sure if I would replace it with something cheap because it would sit unused.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Pretty much the same, except for an XBox X. Still do "important stuff" on the PC, as I like to do form filling on a big screen ... :)

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Time to move over to Playstation now Xbox appears dead after another price rise announced yesterday.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

As a PC user since 1983 (anyone remember Lotus 1-2-3?) and PC owner since 1994, I've seen a lot of changes to PCs. PC prices are now at their highest due to surging DRAM and NAND prices, with HBM demand exploding because of AI and thus starving consumer DRAM supply. The market for general-purpose desktop towers (like the ones that I've always bought) or entry-level family PCs has largely vanished, but higher PC prices don't spell the deathknell for PCs because demand still exists as the same top-end PCs bought by hard-core gamers are also bought by those such as software developers, engineers and video editors who will be using AI‑accelerated local applications which need powerful PCs.

Consoles won't be taking over from PCs as they are facing the same memory and SSD problems as PCs.

Cloud gaming is not replacing PCs as high‑end gamers don't like it and higher memory prices affect server farms who will increase prices for gamers.

In summary PCs will be more expensive and high-end with low-cost ones a thing of the past.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I have had this conversation with a few people over the last few years and frankly the death of the personal computer started when nVidia and others were allowed to get away with pricing everything so high during Covid.

Laptop's, PC Components, white goods etc and the materials required for those things all were allowed to have the price increased because "safety", "no drivers" and "no workers"

As soon as the manufacturers, the miners, transport companies etc were all able to get away with increasing the prices by up to 500% and no one batted an eye lid in governments and did nothing to stop them, that is when the end started.

I remember speaking to a guy who was looking at starting his own company just before covid hit, he was quoted just over £7k for 10 windows laptops, when he actually went to buy them, it was nearly £15k for those same 10 windows laptops, they had more than doubled in price because "we don't know when we will get the next lot because of covid", that is very near what he was told.

I told him to get some macbook pro's because although they would be a little pricey at the time, the support, the warranty, the hardware etc would twice as long if not longer than the Windows laptops and save him money in the long run, he went with them and still has not had to replace one, they still run as fast as day 1, still supported by his software and other than a minor issue with a screen, he has had no faults.


Now we have "Ai" which has sent prices soaring and they are not going to get any better for a long time.

We have Minerals and Materials trying to be withheld by the countries that they are obtained from, we have limited competition if there is competition between manufacturers and mining companies, governments putting more and more red tape on material extraction etc, all of which is impacting the production and sales of hardware and components.

Micron who recently pulled out of the consumer Memory Market have recently announced they have locked in with something like 16 companies a 5 year contract with prices at the current rate, so you can bet your last dollar that SK Hynix, Samsung and smaller nand production companies have done or are doing the same.

So the price you see now will be the same for at least, at least the next 6 to 10 years.


Consoles are going to be around £1200 for the next gen
Handhelds are all going to be over £1500
Ram for pc's and laptops are going to increase by around 30%
GPU's are going to increase by 25% over the already inflated prices which are on average 60% higher than they should be
CPU's are going to increase by 25%
Motherboards have started to come down in price, but they are about to be hit with another 10% to 25% increase
SSD's are going to be hit with up to 50% increase again
Hard drives yes spinning rust are going up by up to 75%.
DDR2 and DDR3 prices are soaring because the companies that still produce it are struggling to keep up with demand and material costs

Rumours are that Apple are struggling and will potentially be increasing their prices by up to 150% over the next 2 years, the first of the increases was the 20% recently.

Microsoft has already increased some stuff by up to 33% and is looking apparently at another 50% on top of that.

Sony is apparently doing the same, Nintendo are looking at increases.

Game Publishers are apparently looking at a 30% increase in game costs because "DVD disc's are so expensive" and "Server costs are increasing"



I know these are all private companies, but something should be done about the clear collusion and corruption going on with Micron, SK Hynix and Samsung and it doesn't help that we have governments around the world obsessed with starting wars, introducing self harming "Net Zero" policies which do nothing but cause cost's to sky rocket and transport costs for materials to sky rocket.


So yeah the "Personal Computer" is dying, so is the ability to have a tablet, a phone, a laptop, a car etc because all of it is going to be priced out slowly from normal gutter folk from having it.

But hey the good thing about it, is the Government won't be able to track you or send you to prison for a mean worded tweet because you won't have anything for them to track you with or for you to post online, also means the companies will have no data to collect and sell.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Watch Steves Gamers Nexus reports from this week on Ram prices and Nvidia and Micron literally saying they love getting all this extra money and their report on the Death of the PC

Micron only killed off Cruical which was them anyway they still sell to others like GSkill but in tiny amounts

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I refuse to watch him after it was shown that he "valued" views over integrity like most "big" tech YouTubers.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

when was that? I find his investigations incredibly interesting

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Part of the whole drama he had with Linustechtips (not that he is much better) and a few other Youtubers, he refused to correct patently false information, refused to reach out for comment before publishing anything, basically said he "was sticking to journalistic practices and on the right side of things" only to be called out by basically everyone for ignoring journalistic practices and decency.

He also has a habit of trying to push his testing as being "the only true testing" until everyone else changes to his and then he changes to the way they did it, just so he can still say "I am the only one testing correctly".

He is a see you next tuesday and I unless he publicly apologises for his BS which he has demanded of others, I won't entertain him.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Linus lost a lot of his staff for a reason

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

True but at least he somewhat owns up to his mistakes, Steve just "heads in sand" and ignores it, then proclaims his "greatness".

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Built my PC in June 2023. The cost to build the same spec now is insane. Don't think I'll be upgrading or replacing anything for a long time yet. Paid about £130 for my 32gb RAM kit and now it is over £400 for the same kit. It is shocking.

I hope the AI bubble bursts hard for some of these big tech companies.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

It's not going to make things cheaper, in fact it's going to make stuff more expensive, but the big 3 memory manufacturers have been hit with a class action lawsuit in America.

https://overclock3d.net/news/memory/...-price-fixing/

The only company that might have to do something is Micron as they are an American company, Samsung and SK Hynix are both South Korean companies so won't have to do jack about it.

So get ready for another nail in the coffin of pc usage, upgrading and ownership.

---------- Post added at 08:39 ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 ----------

I paid £269 for my Corsair ram (almost this kit), it's not made anymore by the looks of it, but that when I checked it last, it was over £1300 for the same kit.

Still people have got to be able to make their stupid videos and companies need to be able to replace their workforce to save money, like Microslop with their "30+% of windows code is now created by Ai but that's not why bugs have increased".

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I paid £180 for 48GB 7000MTs now £555 thank golly it is lifetime warranty cuz I would not want to have to replace it

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Yep, I am thinking the same, at least if it fails I can get in touch with Corsair and get a replacement kit.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Do you go to Corsair or do you go to point of sale? I remember RMAing ram using lifetime direct to scan but have no idea how long ago it was

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I've been thinking on this (yes yes I know that thinking confuses me, but anyway . . ) it may not be the end of the PC as such, but could possibly mark a sharp reduction in the use of Windows.

Most linux distro's will run well on 'older' hardware, especially if there's very little (if any) bloatware, diagnostics and data collection running in the background.

The only problem as such, is that people think it's difficult to use . . oh, and gaming . . which you probably soon can't afford to do on windows anyway.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

The next Xbox (Project Helix) will run windows

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

That's not the issue, at least not for me.
The issue is that some stuff I run just isnt directly available on Linux.

Yes, I know there is WINE, and Virtualbox, but thats all just extra hassle.
No doubt I'll eventually need a new machine, I guess I'll reconsider it then.

All my servers (inc the one that runs CF, are Linux) because that kind of stuff has always been available.

Also, good luck convincing companies to use it, we are so embedded in Micro$oft for everything it hurts.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Agree about the hassle of WINE and Virtualbox, did the Virtualbox thing once and got rid. 2 old laptops now run straight Linux for guitar recording and music editing stuff.

Used to dual boot when on Win 7, never bothered now I'm on Windows 11 (upgraded due to gaming requirements) . . gaming is now getting too much hassle and I may go back to Win 7 for some peace of mind :D

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

I priced up a new PC last summer - £2500 ish. But we needed the money for our new kitchen.
Now using the same site, many components are no longer available (internal optical drive - what has that to do with RAM crisis) and the total is closer to £4000.
So my 2009 PC that really still does what I need will have to last a bit longer.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

At the moment they do yes, and older systems are in somewhat of an abundance online, however even DDR2 and DDR3 are starting to see an increase in price because of the reduction in production by the few memory companies who were still producing it "new".

Because that is starting to see price increases all those older systems are starting to increase, and the usual £30 Dell Optiplex pc's on Ebay with a dual or quad core Intel I3 and 8Gb of ram are now starting to creep up towards £70 to £80.

Linux can be difficult to use depending on the distro you go with, and most if not all can easily be destroyed with a single command.

Gaming on Linux is getting a whole heap better, but it requires Developers to update the Anti-Cheat system if they are using the likes of EAC and Battleye to support the Linux libraries iirc.

It's the only reason at the moment I have not switched to Linux is because Bungie have refused to do anything to support Linux or Keyboard and Mouse on PC, but I am close to doing the things I said I wanted to do before not touching it again, then I will be playing the likes of The Division as Massive Entertainment released a patch to give The Division 2 native Linux support.

Because of Valve, Linux is getting better and better for gaming each month.

The only thing I will need to do is try Sony Vegas in Wine or Bottles iirc to see if that works, if not I will use my laptop for it as I know Shotcut works which is another Video Editor I use.

Re: Are we seeing the beginning of the end of PC
 

Yes, I can vouch for this one. I've played with a few distro's in a VM environment, and I "think" it was Zorin that I trashed exactly as you said.
As much as some people malign Windows, for most home users it's pretty easy to use.