What right about UK's voting system
 

Great voting system. Just an illustration, and politicians say we have a mandate . And. l mean all parties

In Staffordshire, Reform won 72% of the seats on 41% of the vote. In Kent, 37% of the vote delivered it 70% of the seats, while in Derbyshire the same share was rewarded with 66% of all the councillors.

Re: What right about UK ' s voting system
 

Turnout plays a big hand in this. I favour the Australian system of mandatory voting - you can spoil your ballot if you want.

Re: What right about UK ' s voting system
 

Did folks complain about our system when it unfairly hit parties like the Lib Dems and Greens? I'm all for PR but I'm wary of recent converts, as it now suits them.

We could also try and make it easier to vote instead of harder. E.g. voting on weekends, whats so vital about Thursdays? And online voting.

Re: What right about UK ' s voting system
 

It was easier, then they forced everyone to show ID.

Online voting would be a plus, you have been able to register online for years, yet not vote online.

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Yes nothing reeks of democracy more than forcing people to vote, I would be in favour of incentives to vote, like higher or lower council tax depending on if you vote, we could call it the democracy rebate or we could adopt one of Australia's incentives, the democracy sausage

Long been of favour of pr, we had our chance with it but the public knew best and bought into the main parties wishes to maintain the status quo

Re: What right about UK ' s voting system
 

Not the "democracy sausage"? Labour must not kill the "democracy sausage".

Re: What right about UK ' s voting system
 

If you get up early you can have a democracy bacon and egg roll or even a democracy cake according to my Aussie chum

Re: What right about UK ' s voting system
 

I was just discussing this with my Australia resident son.
I like a humble bacon sandwich, preferably on New York Rye - but white bread will do fine. Also I prefer unsmoked (less salty) bacon. When I was there last year, they did indeed try to press on me an egg & bacon roll. Ugh; why would I want that? Eventually I got a proper bacon sandwich - except they couldn't cope with it not in a roll; so the bacon was on a plate and the bread next to it with a butter patty for me to do the rest.

This is heathen stuff unlike their democratic voting system which guarantees turnout and accurate judgement of the political temperature.

Btw, I didn't dare complain about the bacon "sandwich" lest I be branded a whinging POM in front of everyone at the East Hotel. I've promised my son the real thing, to be cooked in our Airbnb next October.

Re: What right about UK ' s voting system
 

"white will do"- unsmoked :shocked:

brown bread -smoked bacon -slathered in butter -mug of tea


if we mess with the voting system we'll probably bugger it up

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My big bug is politicians saying people voted for our policies no they didn't most didn't want you !

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

That brings us to the question of Farage's claim that Reform UK has a "mandate". Yet, it is obvious that theirs is a "protest vote". The only mandate they have to is to do well and succeed in 4 years' time.

However, below 50% turnout plays into the hands of Remainers, for example, who claimed that the majority of the electorate had not voted for Brexit.

Hence mandatory voting. Simples.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

Dogs at polling stations

/fin

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

It’s not perfect by any means, for many your vote doesn’t count. (Although the six reform voters in Runcorn, is evidence that on occasion it does)

Brexit was democratic perfection, one person, one vote, and the vote counts.

How you can build that into a national result whilst maintaining regional representation is the trick. I don’t have the answer.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

It should be first past the post in parliament, and some form of proportional representation in the second house. The second house should have no appointed members or life peers etc and the election cycle of each house overlapping by half a term, so if parliamentary term is 5 years the second house elections are 2.5 years later.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

Agreed the comment seems to applicable to all parties

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

What’s right about our voting system is that it requires local depth of support rather than breadth, as it relies entirely on persuading electors in generally quite small areas to vote for you in order to win a seat.

This generally prevents cranks from gaining undue influence by forming and winning representation for niche parties with limited policy platforms and incentivises the politically ambitious to pursue their interests through one of a limited number of ‘broad church’ parties (mostly Labour and Tory) where they may contribute to internal party debate but not dominate it. If you personally have to persuade people face to face to support you, you don’t as easily get away with being a fringe nutter.

In proportional systems there is less incentive for people to work within parties with broad appeal either on the left or the right. It is much easier to set up your own fringe group, knowing that no party will get an outright majority and whichever one is the largest is going to have to make concessions to your bonkers agenda in order to secure your support for theirs. If you think I’m overstating it, consider how much bat-crap the SNP/Scottish Greens coalition inflicted on Scotland. It produced an unworkable bottle deposit-return scheme that has cost a fortune to develop whilst never actually going live, it threatened to decimate the Scottish fishing industry by declaring no-go zones in waters depended upon by some of our most fragile fishing communities, and it fought - and lost - all the way to the Supreme Court *twice* because of its insane gender identity policies.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

C.f. Germany right now, where the only viable candidate for Chancellor still required 2 votes and hours of horse trading to get elected today, even after weeks of negotiations putting his coalition together.

And to cap it all, the coalition’s legislative plan will not be anything voters voted for, but whatever they cobbled together behind closed doors after the election. Which means they can’t be judged against a manifesto or held to account in any meaningful way at the next election.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

I don't like PR at a large level as it tends to the least unpopular rather than the most popular. It sort of can work at a more local or specialised level where differences are lesser.
I do like our unelected, reforming, second house of unpaid peers. Being unelected means that they don't have to worry about being unpopular so can hold the elected once to account and ensure proposed legislation is fit for purpose (at least that is what they are supposed to do), and the hereditary peers provided that consistency where PM's can't (eventually) stuff the house with peers they like.
I think that whatever system we have, some group will be (or feel to be) disadvantaged.


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Bacon - ideally thick middle cut (back and streaky), dry cure and smoked cooked with some crisp. I prefer wholemeal bread but white is OK but needs to be good quality and brown sauce. (Bacon, onion and cheese all melted in ciabatta bread - mmm! Cheese melted not the bacon and onion!)

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

I agree. It's important to have scrutiny by people who don't have to worry about keeping the electorate happy.

There is also the wisdom and experience that older people usually obtain with age. I do think that the House of Lords should be drawn from more varied people though and Prime Ministers shouldn't be able to stuff it full of their own party supporters and use it to reward people, regardless of their suitability.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

Simply but also could well be hell on earth. To get elected you need to get 50.01% of the total available vote

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

PR systems are rarely that accurate, and in fact even to get reasonably close to accurate you can end up with serious over-representation in your legislature. The Scottish Parliament has one MSP for every 42,000 constituents because on top of the 73 constituency MSPs there are a further 56 drawn from regional lists, with seats allocated so as to make the representation more proportionate to the overall vote.

For comparison, Westminster has 650 MPs, or one for every 106,000 constituents on average.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

Sorry but I don't see what I said as pr . Possibly use transferable vote

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

Transferable vote is PR…

https://electoral-reform.org.uk/voti...sferable-vote/

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Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

Ah right, AV like the system we had a referendum on?

The problem is, that isn’t remotely proportional for a parliamentary election. It’s proportional-ish if you’re just electing one person, like a president, but if your aim is for a national parliament to accurately reflect the votes of the nation it doesn’t work, because the vote is only transferable within an individual constituency.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

If you clicked the link, you would have read it’s not that simple…

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

Yes, Single Transferable Vote and Alternative Vote are not the same thing.

STV has multi-member, region-sized constituencies and is proportional within each region. Depending on the size of the constituencies and the numbers of MPs elected within each, it is capable of being reasonably proportional across the country.

AV transfers votes between individual candidates within single-member constituencies. It is reasonably proportional within an individual constituency but can be quite perversely non-proportional across an electorate as a whole.

STV is used to elect councils in Scotland. AV was the subject of a referendum for the Westminster parliament but was rejected. The Senedd and Holyrood use a hybrid system with separate votes for a single-member constituency, and regional lists to create proportionality across regions by adding additional members, taking into account the number of seats a party already won in the constituency ballot.

Re: What right about UK's voting system
 

At least that would reflect the person, that most people in that area wanted. As it stands it unlikely that most wanted the MP they got Hence it would be a start:shocked: