Cable Forum - Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

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Hugh	28-04-2025 13:10

Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9wpq8xrvd9t

Quote:

The power outage began soon after midday Spanish time and it appears to have affected cities across the country, although the Balearic and Canary Islands do not appear to have been affected.

Mainland Portugal and Andorra also saw a similar blackout.

Public transport has been disrupted, with passengers evacuated from trains and traffic lights also affected.

In Madrid, many businesses, shops and restaurants were plunged into darkness. Internet service was also affected.

Spanish grid operator Red Eléctrica has said it is working with energy companies to restore power.

Quote:

Spain's national railway company, Renfe, says the country's "entire National Electricity Grid was cut off" at 12:30 local time (11:30 BST).

"Trains stopped" and were "without departures" at all stations, the company says.

Pierre

28-04-2025 15:49

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Apparently caused by "atmospheric conditions", suitably vague.

Paul	28-04-2025 17:18

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36195607)

Apparently caused by "atmospheric conditions", suitably vague.

A little more info ;

Quote:

The Portuguese grid operator REN said the Iberian blackout was due to a 'rare atmospheric phenomenon' which occurred in Spain.

It claimed that extreme temperature variations in Spain’s interior had caused ‘induced atmospheric vibration’ in the power grid.

It appears that vibrations in the power lines - which normally create the 'hum' you can hear when electricity passes through - became so bad that the entire network broke down.

REN described it as a “complex phenomenon” that could take up to a week to fix, due to the need to rebalance international electricity flows.

Dude111

29-04-2025 05:13

Thats kinda scary that could affect the grid!

Sirius

29-04-2025 07:16

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

To be honest i expected the Tin Foil hat brigade to blame EV's for the blackout

papa smurf

29-04-2025 07:46

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 36195657)

To be honest i expected the Tin Foil hat brigade to blame EV's for the blackout

i heard that someone plugged in a swasticar and it tried to take over Europe

Hugh	29-04-2025 09:22

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36195659)

i heard that someone plugged in a swasticar and it tried to take over Europe

It was using the DoGE approach of making things more efficient by shutting them down…

OLD BOY

29-04-2025 09:56

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Many news outlets are reporting that it’s the rush for net zero that is to blame.

The jury’s still out, but this is looking to be the likely cause of the unprecedented outage.

Chris

29-04-2025 10:00

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36195665)

Many news outlets are reporting that it’s the rush for net zero that is to blame.

The jury’s still out, but this is looking to be the likely cause of the unprecedented outage.

Why, in your judgment, is it likely?

Pierre

29-04-2025 10:34

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Nothing is certain as yet, and we'll probably not know for some time. I heard from one report that 50GW just disappeared from the grid. Which is massive, I don't even know how that's possible.

Chris

29-04-2025 10:43

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36195670)

Nothing is certain as yet, and we'll probably not know for some time. I heard from one report that 50GW just disappeared from the grid. Which is massive, I don't even know how that's possible.

I expect that to achieve that effect would require parts of the core transmission network shutting down, chaotically, all at once. No single power generator produces anything like 50MW - the single biggest station in the UK (Drax) can produce a little under 4MW, and only then if it brought all its decommissioned coal burning capacity back online.

Hugh	29-04-2025 10:45

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36195665)

Many news outlets are reporting that it’s the rush for net zero that is to blame.

The jury’s still out, but this is looking to be the likely cause of the unprecedented outage.

Any other news outlets beside the Telegraph and GBNews?

Otherwise, "many" is doing some very heavy lifting there…

Taf	29-04-2025 17:19

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36195670)

I heard from one report that 50GW just disappeared from the grid. Which is massive, I don't even know how that's possible.

The Grid is constantly matching voltage and frequency levels, but the biggest thing is phase control. Send 2 antiphase signals into the same leg, and you'll get an attempt to cancel each other out. That would cause much sweating in the control rooms.

Paul	29-04-2025 18:24

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Several reports seem to indicate a huge drop in available generation, which caused the rest of the grid to struggle and sent the frequency out of spec, which then caused more to shut down as protection protocols kicked in. However, its all speculation atm (inc any loss of some renewable generation).

Paul	29-04-2025 20:51

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

It affected a lot of data centres, some of my email was inaccessible for a while, while they sorted out the issues.

Pierre

29-04-2025 21:49

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36195708)

It affected a lot of data centres, some of my email was inaccessible for a while, while they sorted out the issues.

It affected everything.

Toilets in airports wouldn’t flush. Which makes you question, what do you automate and what not?

A simple handle and mechanical flush……..toilets still open for business!

Following this incident, all countries and sectors should rethink what needs to be powered to work.

1andrew1

29-04-2025 23:29

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36195665)

Many news outlets are reporting that it’s the rush for net zero that is to blame.

The jury’s still out, but this is looking to be the likely cause of the unprecedented outage.

You would be wise to wait for the jury's verdict.

Dude111

30-04-2025 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

To be honest i expected the Tin Foil hat brigade to blame EV's for the blackout

On CD earlier I saw someone asked if was some kind of attack...

If it was,I doubt we will ever be told!

Sephiroth

30-04-2025 08:16

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

What we haven't seen is the following:

1. A map of power stations in Spain/Portugal and their output.

2. A map of power consumption set alongside the power station map.

3. Ditto in respect of "green generation" and whether the wind was blowing.

4. A map of the interconnect(s) with France and their capacity.

5. A detailed scientific description of the oscillation phenomenon said to have occurred

I can quite see in my head how an extra-ordinary physical event could trip the interconnect (with possible consequences for France) because the management systems for normalising mains frequencies couldn't cope with the oscillations.

As to net zero, if it turns out that the wind wasn't blowing but there is a disproportionate reliance on wind for power in Spain, and if Portugal has been lazy in its power generation strategy, then OB's suggestion may have merit.

Whatever the cause, the UK is vulnerable, none-the least because of Miliband and our dependence on the Norwegian interconnect which Russia will evenrtually cut.

1andrew1

30-04-2025 09:31

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

In any kind of manmade large-scale problem, it tends to be a combination of failings coming together at the same time. I suspect this situation will be no different.

Sephiroth

30-04-2025 13:00

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195723)

In any kind of manmade large-scale problem, it tends to be a combination of failings coming together at the same time. I suspect this situation will be no different.

In my line of work. Reliability Engineering of telecomms networks, you determine all the possible failure modes (dependencies), calculate their probabilities and design mitigations. Sometimes (but rarely) we miss a failure mode and then learn fore the next iteration of the reliability report.

Electrical networks, at the distribution level, are not a million miles away from telecomms in the topological sense. So SPOFs and common modes are usually easy to identify. A SPOF can be a disaster; a common mode (for example duff software in transmission hardware that routes electricity) can also lead to disaster.

This amplifies Andrew's statement. But what we need to find out is what their reliability assessment and risk analysis stated. Even more important, is to find out what our stupid governments have assessed.

Hugh	30-04-2025 16:06

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

National Grid in the U.K. is a Public Company, and the Spanish equivalent is 80% public owned and 20% State owned, so not sure if "stupid governments" are involved in assessing…

Pierre

30-04-2025 18:20

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36195762)

National Grid in the U.K. is a Public Company

Sort of……

The UK government acquired National Grid's Electricity System Operator (ESO) on October 1, 2024, for £630 million. The ESO was rebranded as the National Energy System Operator (NESO), which now operates as a public body, overseeing the planning and operation of the UK's electricity and gas networks. This move was part of the Energy Act 2023 and aims to support energy security, accelerate the transition to clean energy, and potentially reduce energy bills.

It Operates and manages the real-time balancing of electricity supply and demand, ensuring grid stability and market operations.

Hugh	30-04-2025 19:03

Re: Mass power outage in Spain and Portugal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36195770)

Thanks for that info - didn’t know that.

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